"the spot system is wonky"

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rabindranath72
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"the spot system is wonky"

Post by rabindranath72 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:49 pm

Word of one of the Trolls (Steve)
http://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewtop ... =8&t=13776
It took them only 10 years to realise that there were problems. Let's see how long it takes for them to realise the ramifications this "wonky" system has on monsters and encounters, all things that all other versions of D&D have solved, albeit with different methods.

In case one wonders why I ditched the game (amongst other things.) Good riddance :evil:

galliard
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Re: "the spot system is wonky"

Post by galliard » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:49 am

You ditched the game because a spot check uses wisdom? That seems pretty easy to house rule.

Other versions of D&D may have solved it, but other versions of D&D generally have tons and tons of rules. Most people are attracted to C&C cuz it's rules light.

If you read the thread people have come up with a bunch of ways around this. I was thinking of picking up C&C again, this would not be a dealbreaker for me personally.

rabindranath72
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Re: "the spot system is wonky"

Post by rabindranath72 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:41 pm

galliard wrote:You ditched the game because a spot check uses wisdom? That seems pretty easy to house rule.

Other versions of D&D may have solved it, but other versions of D&D generally have tons and tons of rules. Most people are attracted to C&C cuz it's rules light.

If you read the thread people have come up with a bunch of ways around this. I was thinking of picking up C&C again, this would not be a dealbreaker for me personally.
Oh yes I know that it can be house ruled; as anything else, I'd add. But as I mentioned, it's "amongst other things", which are far too numerous to list and honestly I moved on after playing the game for many years (I was an early adopter, and I contributed quite a lot of stuff on the old websites.)
Glad you enjoy it, though! :D

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TBeholder
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Re: "the spot system is wonky"

Post by TBeholder » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:08 am

rabindranath72 wrote: It took them only 10 years to realise that there were problems. Let's see how long it takes for them to realise the ramifications this "wonky" system has on monsters and encounters, all things that all other versions of D&D have solved, albeit with different methods.
And what methods those would be?

3e skill inflation can be noticed in the first 10 minutes, oh yes. It's just that Spot usually isn't as bad as e.g. Concentration in the game style for which d20 was quite obviously intended: Hack&Slash.
As to dependencies, Wis and Cha are misused because stats for Perception and Luck respectively, while evidently needed sometimes, are absent in xD&D - this simply cannot be fixed without introducing adequate stats.

C&C is an attempt to fix the worst bugs of d20, but it obviously doesn't fix them all. Packaging everything into class abilities was resigning rather than solving the problem with skills.
"Two Eyes Good, Eleven Eyes Better." - Michele Carter

rabindranath72
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Re: "the spot system is wonky"

Post by rabindranath72 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:49 pm

TBeholder wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote: It took them only 10 years to realise that there were problems. Let's see how long it takes for them to realise the ramifications this "wonky" system has on monsters and encounters, all things that all other versions of D&D have solved, albeit with different methods.
And what methods those would be?

3e skill inflation can be noticed in the first 10 minutes, oh yes. It's just that Spot usually isn't as bad as e.g. Concentration in the game style for which d20 was quite obviously intended: Hack&Slash.
As to dependencies, Wis and Cha are misused because stats for Perception and Luck respectively, while evidently needed sometimes, are absent in xD&D - this simply cannot be fixed without introducing adequate stats.

C&C is an attempt to fix the worst bugs of d20, but it obviously doesn't fix them all. Packaging everything into class abilities was resigning rather than solving the problem with skills.
Yeah well, like d10 for surprise in 2e, or d6 in 1e and Classic.
In 3e and following, you have skills, and a class or race which isn't good at Spot, say, won't be better than those who are supposedly better at it, by race or class. But I suppose you know that.
In C&C, a cleric will outperform any other class or race by default; unless you choose to sacrifice a Prime to Wisdom.
And in 10 years, they still haven't clarified whether you add level to a racial ability check (with the attendant can of worms in the case of monsters) :roll:
That's just sloppy design.

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