Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby ROTHGAR » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:52 am

Cool, would love to see race stats for the half-giants (aka Vrykul). :D
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby DarthManu » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:25 pm

I'm having a hard time with the mana system. As far as I understand a Mage level 16(proficiency +6) with 20 intelligence will have only 26 mana points? 20 from pure intelligence + 6 proficiency?
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby Arrius Nideal » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:30 am

Level 16 has a proficiency bonus of +5 (so 25), but yes. You also regenerate 5 MP per hour.
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby DarthManu » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:18 am

Thank you so much for the help man. I'm about to DM for the first time to 5 people, so I'm bringing all the player's doubts. Here is another one... In order to Use itens and weapons from the Engineering skill such as bombs and rifles, does the character has to be trainer in the Engineering skill? Or it only require somethink like an attunement with such weapon or construct? Does all firearms Use agility in damage as well? The other technological itens like mines and others have a atribute added to damage? Alchemy and Engineering count as Skills(like insight, perception, acrobatics) or tolls? How does a non Tinker character gets more EP beyond the initial 2? Hope I'm not annoying you... :D
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby Soulblight » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:09 am

DarthManu wrote:Thank you so much for the help man. I'm about to DM for the first time to 5 people, so I'm bringing all the player's doubts. Here is another one... In order to Use itens and weapons from the Engineering skill such as bombs and rifles, does the character has to be trainer in the Engineering skill? Or it only require somethink like an attunement with such weapon or construct? Does all firearms Use agility in damage as well? The other technological itens like mines and others have a atribute added to damage? Alchemy and Engineering count as Skills(like insight, perception, acrobatics) or tolls? How does a non Tinker character gets more EP beyond the initial 2? Hope I'm not annoying you... :D


Under the engineering skills section it says
Using Technological Devices. Devices can be used automatically if one knows how to use them (point and shoot, press a button, etc.) as a Use Object action unless otherwise stated. All devices also have a have a chance to malfunction when activating.

EP is only used when creating the items as a Tinker or Engineer I believe. Though all mechanical items have a Malfunction Rate which causes them to fail depending on the dice roll.
Tbh I have been running a game using this rule set since the start of the year and some of the rulings are a little vague.

I do have a couple of changes for the hunter class though i've found
Change Beast Master hunter to the revised UA edition ruling. its a much better rule set for the player
Hunters also have the option to wield shields which they are unable to do in the game
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby FinalTemplar » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:10 am

In the wake of the Legion invasion and preparation for the Battle of Azeroth... some suggestions.
Races:
Elves (Shal'dorei (Nightborne), Ren'dorei (Void) )
Lightforged Draenei
Highmountain Tauren

Classes:
From what reading I was doing, I don't have any major issues here, just small thematic ones.

Death Knight -
Shouldn't have shield proficiency. They don't have it in WoW, I don't really understand why they were given it here.

Druid -
Would be interesting to allow Druids to use the Forbidden Form (at 20th level?) aka the original Worgen Form. Not sure how you would implement it.

Hunter -
Again, another class that can use shields. I'm not sure why they can. Are shields now Hunter Weapons, too? /s

Paladin -
Unless you're intending to revert to Classic WoW with Classes, perhaps mention that if you're Horde both the Tauren and Blood Elves have their own factions of Paladin. This might be a good spot, as you did in the Priest entry, to mention that not everyone who draws upon the light is wholly good -- it's mostly your personal intent on using it. The Light is both Good and Evil, and Evil people (the Scarlet Crusade and the Blood Knights prior to the Cataclysm, and even Goblins and Forsaken to a lesser extent) are just as capable of using the Light and bending it to their will.

Priest -
I love the Moon Priesthood, but I'm not sure if Polymorph fits a spell for them. That being said I'm not sure what would fit here -- Perhaps adapt Starfall to work in d&d? Not sure.
I'm not sure if you need Death Priesthood and Shadow Priesthood. The feel like the themes overlap and don't have enough difference.

Rogue -
Perhaps give them Lockpicking as a non-combat skill. They've always had it, and it makes sense.
Perhaps change Combat to Outlaw to be up to date with the post-Legion world.
I'm not sure why Rogues get Blindsense at level 14 --- I don't think this relates to any ability they have ever had in WoW.

Mage -
As with the Rogue's Lockpicking, perhaps give Mages "Khadgar's Unlocking" from Classic's original beta. Worked functionally similar to Rogue's Lockpicking but it was themed differently.

Shaman -
At least with Death Knight, it makes sense you can transfer your Paladin levels 1:1 into Death Knight. Thematically it makes sense. Outside of the initial Fel interference on Draenor, Shaman don't really just become Warlocks to my knowledge. And even then, they only became Warlocks because they lost touch with the elements. Perhaps they would have become Warlocks anyways, but that was a big part of it.

Warrior -
Fighting Style - Archery and Fighting Style - Dueling don't really fit with the idea of a Warrior in the WoW sense. Warriors *can* use ranged weapons, but they don't generally use ranged weapons as a primary form of combat. These two fighting styles just felt like they both really just are hard stuck from the 5e styles and they don't need to be there.

Special and Racial Specialization Suggestions -
Blood Mage (Mage, Sin'Dorei), Archmage (Mage, Human), Chronomancer (Arcane Mage), Warden (Rogue/Warrior Night Elf)
I feel like these archetypes are unique enough to provide a different specialization for the classes.

Just a few minor things that bother me. That being said, most of it is just stuff that I can alter within my group, I just think it would be better to have that consistency. Thanks for reading, I love the rulebooks.
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby Arrius Nideal » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:59 am

DARTHMANU
Soulblight answered your question pretty well. Engineering as a skill is not required for using weapons, but proficiency is. Any class that has proficiency in all weapons is proficient with firearms and explosives, and engineers are proficient in any weapon they can create.
Firearms do use Agility for damage.
Alchemy and Engineering do count as skills, but access to them is more restricted (usually by race or class or feat).
EP scales with proficiency bonus. EP is gained when having engineering as a proficiency. Tinkers are special in having abilities that lower malfunction chance, reducing cost and time when crafting, and other features.

SOULBLIGHT
I'd be glad to clarify anything you find vague.
@Hunter: The Warcraft 5e version of the hunter is quite different and stronger than the original 5e ranger, but I've checked out the changes, and added a few good ideas.
@Hunter Shields: Oh, you're right! That doesn't stop them from rolling on things, though. >:D

FINAL TEMPLAR
Battle of Azeroth will be interesting for sure. I haven't added anything from Legion yet, however, let alone something from Battle. The Demon Hunter in the conversion right now was designed during the end of Warlords.

@Death Knight Shields: Yes, I know, but Death Knights can use shields because they have the paladin chassis (proficiency in all weapons, armor, d10, etc.). They can, but most wouldn't, probably because it's not cool anymore.

@Druid: Worgen Form--you mean druids of the scythe?
Currently, druid form powers are decoupled from their original kind in 5e. You can 'design' a primal wolf form by choosing the following Blessed Beast powers: Prowling Beast (wolf packs), and Roaring Beast (wolf howls encouraging pack members).
Though I'm not sure if I better move Blessed Beast up a few levels and add more abilities.
In any case, you gave me a good idea--a sidebar that shows common blessed beast forms and recommended choices, such as bear form of the Druids of the Paw (defending beast and furious beast), cat form of the Druids of the Fang (raking beast and prowling beast), stag form of the Druids of the Antler (holy beast and magical beast), stormcrow form of the Druids of the Talon (magical beast and inspiring beast), and wolf form of the Druids of the Scythe/Pack (prowling beast and roaring beast)

@Hunter: Right, but I'm not sure hunters shouldn't be able to use shields. They can't roll need in RPGs, can they?
/though my group certainly does/

@Paladin: Actually, adding a 'lore sidebar' for every class that shows their orders and a glimpse of their lore works great. The above suggestions for druid orders can fit in nicely.

@Priest: Moon has Polymorph because of the influence of the Ancients. True that most priesthoods don't personally polymorph, but they use it defensively to kick out their druid allies from their wild shape shinanigans. It's not optimal, but we can throw in a level 4 Banishment instead--moon priests handled a lot of demons before, and should reasonably be able to kick them out.
Death vs. Shadow is more of a Arthas/Scourge vs. Void Lords/Old Gods thing, hence the death vs psychic magic. The future lore sidebar can help differentiate.

@Rogue: They already have lockpicking; proficiency in thieves' tools covers lockpicking.
Combat to Outlaw? I'm all in. I always thought the term was ridiculous. That's going to be a name change, mostly, however, since the Combat rogue in WoW (and in this conversion) was based to be some pirate/swashbuckler, and it seems Legion retained the same idea. Luckily, combat rogues already had proficiency in firearms and explosives, and the Touch-Blast Strike rules will be clarified when the next patch rolls out.
Blindsense was keeping the 5e chassis. It's a nice ability. Consider it sixth sense.

@Mage: They already have it; Knock is Khadger's Unlocking (though I might change the name, but I'm pretty sure mages used it before Khadger).

@Shaman: Regarding shamans, it makes sense so far as the source of shaman power--shaman, warlocks, and priests reach out to beings and patrons for power and aim to please, unlike the mage who dissects power and employs them as they will.
In a way, the first three are very able to channel their patron's wills on Azeroth, so it stands to reason they have the same basic magical (or mental) skill set.
It would make sense if certain casters can switch out levels easier than others (priests to paladins, death priests to death knights, mages to warlocks, discipline priests to monks), which might be a mechanic we can introduce as part of any future downtime or retraining rules.

@Warrior: You're right. This conversion isn't a hard conversion (where things work exactly as the same), as there are multiple styles players can choose to employ.

Specializations:
Blood Mage: I've been considering this, but I need input; is the bloodmage a baseline warlock or a mage? As it is, lore is confused (they employ fel power and dark magic, but they only really conjure fire and use life drain). The phoenix is easy--conjure elemental and design a mini-phoenix, so is everything else, but the question was never really answered. You think the mage is a better fit, right?

Warden: I actually splintered off warden abilities to the baseline rogue. No idea how I'll get them folded back again. :shock:

But the lore sidebar idea is actually perfect, now that I think about it: some archetypes need designing (demon hunter), while others can be built from existing class choices (druid of the fang).

_GENERAL_

In general, I've love to have suggestions for spells to implement, feedback on certain mechanics. Does anyone have feedback on any of the following:
* Engineering
* Alchemy
* The mana system (since in my core game in Pathfinder, I've changed it up)
* Alternate crafting rules (complexity)
* Debilitate/invigorate spells

_UPDATE_
As the PDF progresses, it's complete, but needs a little polishing (Homebrewery can't handle large PDFs, so we've decided to split them into chapters). Once it's finished, I'll roll out version 2.5.
In the meantime, I've been designing the Alchemist class. It's the next class entering the roster.
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby Arrius Nideal » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:18 am

I've read FINALTEMPLAR's post in the dungeon thread, and wanted to answer it here.

As to the question of epic--the team is taking a minimalist approach in terms of level so we can avoid the problems at high level, and so players are able to realistically cover a lot of ground in lore with reasonably-leveled characters.
Therefore, if there is a creature in lore that has a corresponding creature in the monster manual, I'll take it (Onyxia and Nefarian are -in lore- adult black dragons in age. Therefore, they are level 14 in the game, suitable end bosses for a level 10-12 team). The changes will primarily minor, in adding different powers and lair design to iconic monsters and raid bosses, and some attribute increases (for example, more Strength for Nefarian, more spells to Onyxia).

In other words, expansions do not assume a certain level to play, but threats from higher-level enemies exist in all areas. While Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms have areas where characters lower than level 14 are insta-fried (Onyxia's lair and Blackwing Spire), most is survivable for levels 1-5. The same goes for Northrend, and although the difficulties of constant cold are a factor that higher levels (or better preparation) helps with, most enemies are ice spiders (which are as normal giant spiders), necromancers with their pet undead (skeletons and zombies), and roaming monsters of one type or another. The closer you get to Icecrown, however, the more dangerous your prospects, but a common wolf at Elwynn is the same wolf in Hyjal or Northrend or Outland.

When it comes to old gods, this becomes way harder, but I'll ballpark them to from those in partial/weak form (Ahn'Qiraj/Forgotten Ones in Northrend) at level 14, awakened/not full power (Yogg-Saron) at level 16, and full power at level 20. In cases where augmented monsters exist (such as Deathwing--not simply an ancient black dragon), the changes will be bigger, but will still use the baseline from the monster manual as a format (possibly ending with Deathwing as a Challenge 23 dragon (+2 higher than normal) with better AoE.
To manage the expectations, phases of combat will be implemented, as well as lair and legendary actions (Onyxia stays on the ground and uses her breath weapon and melee attacks before reduced to 50% hit points, and then takes off to cast spells, etc.), as well as adding adds and support to previously solo bosses. Not like this ends up with Ragnaros as simply a larger fire elemental with a hammer, but the principle is to keep things as low as possible.

This approach was chosen primarily done for the following reasons:
1. To avoid having to use Epic rules, and avoid making fun things high level only.
2. To avoid the pressure of having to grind/spontaneously level up, else otherwise be severely underleveled for expansion dungeons and raids.
3. To avoid the in-game feeling of dissonance--Onyxia should be able to challenge the lords of Utgarde Keep; in Warcraft III, Illidan challenged Arthas and lost by a hair, so they should have comparable levels.
4. Helps make leveling more significant.
5. Retains lore significance. Shadows and Light, the 3.5 rulebook, had Cairne Bloodhoof at level 22, where in-lore, he would have never been threatened by centaurs, and where Gul'Dan would have never died by betrayal, since he was level 35, and Medivh is a Challenge 43 mage, and Ragnaros will flat out not die to a level 20 party, since his level is 64.
6. Allows certain characters to focus on certain expansions, areas, and dungeons. Having gradient leveling allows a party to start out at level 1 in Outland and face threats in the area. Northrend likewise has many challenges for low levels, although anything directly related to the Lich King hits a high wall of 'you must be level 12+ to play'.
7. Ease of conversion (I.E. laziness).
8. Works well with troop rules. The reason the monster manual has statistics for human footmen and orcish grunts is not just for reference or common enemies, but also because the team finished the rules for mass combat and downtime (which involves building businesses, structures, and training troops, Warcraft III style), like Garrisons. It becomes a viable choice for players who command armies to fight wars, and the troops don't level up as well as the areas. These rules are finished (and are being playtested in the Warcraft Legacies game), but are not published yet.

What I'm considering is to shade the world map in color--green for low levels, yellow for medium, and red (and darker) for higher levels to keep the picture clearer, but that's after the patch comes out.
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Postby DarthManu » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:07 am

I was reading the engineering weapons and had a thought. Don't you think the weapons such as rifles (3d8) are a little bit op in damage? A hunter for instance will never use a Bow(1d8) in latter levels.
Another doubt: A rifle(3d8) cost 3 EP to be build, if I build a Rifle with 4 EP will it do 4d8 damage ou get stronger in another way?

Regarding The elves: High magic and Blood magic have Intelligence as spellcasting ability, or just Arcane Legacy has it?

Mystic Senses: What's the difference bettwen the lore chack in this skill and a History check?
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