Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Discuss the World of Warcraft campaign setting, as it relates to pen & paper RPGs, here.
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ROTHGAR
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by ROTHGAR » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:52 pm

Cool, would love to see race stats for the half-giants (aka Vrykul). :D

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by DarthManu » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:25 am

I'm having a hard time with the mana system. As far as I understand a Mage level 16(proficiency +6) with 20 intelligence will have only 26 mana points? 20 from pure intelligence + 6 proficiency?

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:30 am

Level 16 has a proficiency bonus of +5 (so 25), but yes. You also regenerate 5 MP per hour.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by DarthManu » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:18 pm

Thank you so much for the help man. I'm about to DM for the first time to 5 people, so I'm bringing all the player's doubts. Here is another one... In order to Use itens and weapons from the Engineering skill such as bombs and rifles, does the character has to be trainer in the Engineering skill? Or it only require somethink like an attunement with such weapon or construct? Does all firearms Use agility in damage as well? The other technological itens like mines and others have a atribute added to damage? Alchemy and Engineering count as Skills(like insight, perception, acrobatics) or tolls? How does a non Tinker character gets more EP beyond the initial 2? Hope I'm not annoying you... :D

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Soulblight » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:09 am

DarthManu wrote:Thank you so much for the help man. I'm about to DM for the first time to 5 people, so I'm bringing all the player's doubts. Here is another one... In order to Use itens and weapons from the Engineering skill such as bombs and rifles, does the character has to be trainer in the Engineering skill? Or it only require somethink like an attunement with such weapon or construct? Does all firearms Use agility in damage as well? The other technological itens like mines and others have a atribute added to damage? Alchemy and Engineering count as Skills(like insight, perception, acrobatics) or tolls? How does a non Tinker character gets more EP beyond the initial 2? Hope I'm not annoying you... :D
Under the engineering skills section it says
Using Technological Devices. Devices can be used automatically if one knows how to use them (point and shoot, press a button, etc.) as a Use Object action unless otherwise stated. All devices also have a have a chance to malfunction when activating.
EP is only used when creating the items as a Tinker or Engineer I believe. Though all mechanical items have a Malfunction Rate which causes them to fail depending on the dice roll.
Tbh I have been running a game using this rule set since the start of the year and some of the rulings are a little vague.

I do have a couple of changes for the hunter class though i've found
Change Beast Master hunter to the revised UA edition ruling. its a much better rule set for the player
Hunters also have the option to wield shields which they are unable to do in the game

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by FinalTemplar » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:10 am

In the wake of the Legion invasion and preparation for the Battle of Azeroth... some suggestions.
Races:
Elves (Shal'dorei (Nightborne), Ren'dorei (Void) )
Lightforged Draenei
Highmountain Tauren

Classes:
From what reading I was doing, I don't have any major issues here, just small thematic ones.

Death Knight -
Shouldn't have shield proficiency. They don't have it in WoW, I don't really understand why they were given it here.

Druid -
Would be interesting to allow Druids to use the Forbidden Form (at 20th level?) aka the original Worgen Form. Not sure how you would implement it.

Hunter -
Again, another class that can use shields. I'm not sure why they can. Are shields now Hunter Weapons, too? /s

Paladin -
Unless you're intending to revert to Classic WoW with Classes, perhaps mention that if you're Horde both the Tauren and Blood Elves have their own factions of Paladin. This might be a good spot, as you did in the Priest entry, to mention that not everyone who draws upon the light is wholly good -- it's mostly your personal intent on using it. The Light is both Good and Evil, and Evil people (the Scarlet Crusade and the Blood Knights prior to the Cataclysm, and even Goblins and Forsaken to a lesser extent) are just as capable of using the Light and bending it to their will.

Priest -
I love the Moon Priesthood, but I'm not sure if Polymorph fits a spell for them. That being said I'm not sure what would fit here -- Perhaps adapt Starfall to work in d&d? Not sure.
I'm not sure if you need Death Priesthood and Shadow Priesthood. The feel like the themes overlap and don't have enough difference.

Rogue -
Perhaps give them Lockpicking as a non-combat skill. They've always had it, and it makes sense.
Perhaps change Combat to Outlaw to be up to date with the post-Legion world.
I'm not sure why Rogues get Blindsense at level 14 --- I don't think this relates to any ability they have ever had in WoW.

Mage -
As with the Rogue's Lockpicking, perhaps give Mages "Khadgar's Unlocking" from Classic's original beta. Worked functionally similar to Rogue's Lockpicking but it was themed differently.

Shaman -
At least with Death Knight, it makes sense you can transfer your Paladin levels 1:1 into Death Knight. Thematically it makes sense. Outside of the initial Fel interference on Draenor, Shaman don't really just become Warlocks to my knowledge. And even then, they only became Warlocks because they lost touch with the elements. Perhaps they would have become Warlocks anyways, but that was a big part of it.

Warrior -
Fighting Style - Archery and Fighting Style - Dueling don't really fit with the idea of a Warrior in the WoW sense. Warriors *can* use ranged weapons, but they don't generally use ranged weapons as a primary form of combat. These two fighting styles just felt like they both really just are hard stuck from the 5e styles and they don't need to be there.

Special and Racial Specialization Suggestions -
Blood Mage (Mage, Sin'Dorei), Archmage (Mage, Human), Chronomancer (Arcane Mage), Warden (Rogue/Warrior Night Elf)
I feel like these archetypes are unique enough to provide a different specialization for the classes.

Just a few minor things that bother me. That being said, most of it is just stuff that I can alter within my group, I just think it would be better to have that consistency. Thanks for reading, I love the rulebooks.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:59 am

DARTHMANU
Soulblight answered your question pretty well. Engineering as a skill is not required for using weapons, but proficiency is. Any class that has proficiency in all weapons is proficient with firearms and explosives, and engineers are proficient in any weapon they can create.
Firearms do use Agility for damage.
Alchemy and Engineering do count as skills, but access to them is more restricted (usually by race or class or feat).
EP scales with proficiency bonus. EP is gained when having engineering as a proficiency. Tinkers are special in having abilities that lower malfunction chance, reducing cost and time when crafting, and other features.

SOULBLIGHT
I'd be glad to clarify anything you find vague.
@Hunter: The Warcraft 5e version of the hunter is quite different and stronger than the original 5e ranger, but I've checked out the changes, and added a few good ideas.
@Hunter Shields: Oh, you're right! That doesn't stop them from rolling on things, though. >:D

FINAL TEMPLAR
Battle of Azeroth will be interesting for sure. I haven't added anything from Legion yet, however, let alone something from Battle. The Demon Hunter in the conversion right now was designed during the end of Warlords.

@Death Knight Shields: Yes, I know, but Death Knights can use shields because they have the paladin chassis (proficiency in all weapons, armor, d10, etc.). They can, but most wouldn't, probably because it's not cool anymore.

@Druid: Worgen Form--you mean druids of the scythe?
Currently, druid form powers are decoupled from their original kind in 5e. You can 'design' a primal wolf form by choosing the following Blessed Beast powers: Prowling Beast (wolf packs), and Roaring Beast (wolf howls encouraging pack members).
Though I'm not sure if I better move Blessed Beast up a few levels and add more abilities.
In any case, you gave me a good idea--a sidebar that shows common blessed beast forms and recommended choices, such as bear form of the Druids of the Paw (defending beast and furious beast), cat form of the Druids of the Fang (raking beast and prowling beast), stag form of the Druids of the Antler (holy beast and magical beast), stormcrow form of the Druids of the Talon (magical beast and inspiring beast), and wolf form of the Druids of the Scythe/Pack (prowling beast and roaring beast)

@Hunter: Right, but I'm not sure hunters shouldn't be able to use shields. They can't roll need in RPGs, can they?
/though my group certainly does/

@Paladin: Actually, adding a 'lore sidebar' for every class that shows their orders and a glimpse of their lore works great. The above suggestions for druid orders can fit in nicely.

@Priest: Moon has Polymorph because of the influence of the Ancients. True that most priesthoods don't personally polymorph, but they use it defensively to kick out their druid allies from their wild shape shinanigans. It's not optimal, but we can throw in a level 4 Banishment instead--moon priests handled a lot of demons before, and should reasonably be able to kick them out.
Death vs. Shadow is more of a Arthas/Scourge vs. Void Lords/Old Gods thing, hence the death vs psychic magic. The future lore sidebar can help differentiate.

@Rogue: They already have lockpicking; proficiency in thieves' tools covers lockpicking.
Combat to Outlaw? I'm all in. I always thought the term was ridiculous. That's going to be a name change, mostly, however, since the Combat rogue in WoW (and in this conversion) was based to be some pirate/swashbuckler, and it seems Legion retained the same idea. Luckily, combat rogues already had proficiency in firearms and explosives, and the Touch-Blast Strike rules will be clarified when the next patch rolls out.
Blindsense was keeping the 5e chassis. It's a nice ability. Consider it sixth sense.

@Mage: They already have it; Knock is Khadger's Unlocking (though I might change the name, but I'm pretty sure mages used it before Khadger).

@Shaman: Regarding shamans, it makes sense so far as the source of shaman power--shaman, warlocks, and priests reach out to beings and patrons for power and aim to please, unlike the mage who dissects power and employs them as they will.
In a way, the first three are very able to channel their patron's wills on Azeroth, so it stands to reason they have the same basic magical (or mental) skill set.
It would make sense if certain casters can switch out levels easier than others (priests to paladins, death priests to death knights, mages to warlocks, discipline priests to monks), which might be a mechanic we can introduce as part of any future downtime or retraining rules.

@Warrior: You're right. This conversion isn't a hard conversion (where things work exactly as the same), as there are multiple styles players can choose to employ.

Specializations:
Blood Mage: I've been considering this, but I need input; is the bloodmage a baseline warlock or a mage? As it is, lore is confused (they employ fel power and dark magic, but they only really conjure fire and use life drain). The phoenix is easy--conjure elemental and design a mini-phoenix, so is everything else, but the question was never really answered. You think the mage is a better fit, right?

Warden: I actually splintered off warden abilities to the baseline rogue. No idea how I'll get them folded back again. :shock:

But the lore sidebar idea is actually perfect, now that I think about it: some archetypes need designing (demon hunter), while others can be built from existing class choices (druid of the fang).

_GENERAL_

In general, I've love to have suggestions for spells to implement, feedback on certain mechanics. Does anyone have feedback on any of the following:
* Engineering
* Alchemy
* The mana system (since in my core game in Pathfinder, I've changed it up)
* Alternate crafting rules (complexity)
* Debilitate/invigorate spells

_UPDATE_
As the PDF progresses, it's complete, but needs a little polishing (Homebrewery can't handle large PDFs, so we've decided to split them into chapters). Once it's finished, I'll roll out version 2.5.
In the meantime, I've been designing the Alchemist class. It's the next class entering the roster.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:18 am

I've read FINALTEMPLAR's post in the dungeon thread, and wanted to answer it here.

As to the question of epic--the team is taking a minimalist approach in terms of level so we can avoid the problems at high level, and so players are able to realistically cover a lot of ground in lore with reasonably-leveled characters.
Therefore, if there is a creature in lore that has a corresponding creature in the monster manual, I'll take it (Onyxia and Nefarian are -in lore- adult black dragons in age. Therefore, they are level 14 in the game, suitable end bosses for a level 10-12 team). The changes will primarily minor, in adding different powers and lair design to iconic monsters and raid bosses, and some attribute increases (for example, more Strength for Nefarian, more spells to Onyxia).

In other words, expansions do not assume a certain level to play, but threats from higher-level enemies exist in all areas. While Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms have areas where characters lower than level 14 are insta-fried (Onyxia's lair and Blackwing Spire), most is survivable for levels 1-5. The same goes for Northrend, and although the difficulties of constant cold are a factor that higher levels (or better preparation) helps with, most enemies are ice spiders (which are as normal giant spiders), necromancers with their pet undead (skeletons and zombies), and roaming monsters of one type or another. The closer you get to Icecrown, however, the more dangerous your prospects, but a common wolf at Elwynn is the same wolf in Hyjal or Northrend or Outland.

When it comes to old gods, this becomes way harder, but I'll ballpark them to from those in partial/weak form (Ahn'Qiraj/Forgotten Ones in Northrend) at level 14, awakened/not full power (Yogg-Saron) at level 16, and full power at level 20. In cases where augmented monsters exist (such as Deathwing--not simply an ancient black dragon), the changes will be bigger, but will still use the baseline from the monster manual as a format (possibly ending with Deathwing as a Challenge 23 dragon (+2 higher than normal) with better AoE.
To manage the expectations, phases of combat will be implemented, as well as lair and legendary actions (Onyxia stays on the ground and uses her breath weapon and melee attacks before reduced to 50% hit points, and then takes off to cast spells, etc.), as well as adding adds and support to previously solo bosses. Not like this ends up with Ragnaros as simply a larger fire elemental with a hammer, but the principle is to keep things as low as possible.

This approach was chosen primarily done for the following reasons:
1. To avoid having to use Epic rules, and avoid making fun things high level only.
2. To avoid the pressure of having to grind/spontaneously level up, else otherwise be severely underleveled for expansion dungeons and raids.
3. To avoid the in-game feeling of dissonance--Onyxia should be able to challenge the lords of Utgarde Keep; in Warcraft III, Illidan challenged Arthas and lost by a hair, so they should have comparable levels.
4. Helps make leveling more significant.
5. Retains lore significance. Shadows and Light, the 3.5 rulebook, had Cairne Bloodhoof at level 22, where in-lore, he would have never been threatened by centaurs, and where Gul'Dan would have never died by betrayal, since he was level 35, and Medivh is a Challenge 43 mage, and Ragnaros will flat out not die to a level 20 party, since his level is 64.
6. Allows certain characters to focus on certain expansions, areas, and dungeons. Having gradient leveling allows a party to start out at level 1 in Outland and face threats in the area. Northrend likewise has many challenges for low levels, although anything directly related to the Lich King hits a high wall of 'you must be level 12+ to play'.
7. Ease of conversion (I.E. laziness).
8. Works well with troop rules. The reason the monster manual has statistics for human footmen and orcish grunts is not just for reference or common enemies, but also because the team finished the rules for mass combat and downtime (which involves building businesses, structures, and training troops, Warcraft III style), like Garrisons. It becomes a viable choice for players who command armies to fight wars, and the troops don't level up as well as the areas. These rules are finished (and are being playtested in the Warcraft Legacies game), but are not published yet.

What I'm considering is to shade the world map in color--green for low levels, yellow for medium, and red (and darker) for higher levels to keep the picture clearer, but that's after the patch comes out.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by DarthManu » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:07 am

I was reading the engineering weapons and had a thought. Don't you think the weapons such as rifles (3d8) are a little bit op in damage? A hunter for instance will never use a Bow(1d8) in latter levels.
Another doubt: A rifle(3d8) cost 3 EP to be build, if I build a Rifle with 4 EP will it do 4d8 damage ou get stronger in another way?

Regarding The elves: High magic and Blood magic have Intelligence as spellcasting ability, or just Arcane Legacy has it?

Mystic Senses: What's the difference bettwen the lore chack in this skill and a History check?

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:51 am

@Rifles' Damage/EP: Rifles' range in damage from 2d8 to 6d8 per shot, scaling with the EP invested in it. They're balanced against higher costs, malfunction, reloading times, and difficult requirements to make. Bows are cheaper and more reliable (and notably more silent). For balance purposes, each serve a different function, with firearms focusing more on powerful single hits, and bows on consistent damage per turn. I have a game with a gunner tinker and rogue who uses bows, and each of them are equally competitive and competent.
An engineer (tinker or otherwise) can sacrifice EP in damage to increase reliability (lowering malfunction rate) or giving the firearm features such as shooting in a cone.

@High Elves: High Magic uses Intelligence, and Arcane Legacy only uses Intelligence if you don't have another spellcasting attribute. I've clarified the wording. Thanks!

@Mystic Senses: The racial ability grants expertise to the following topics: magical items, lore, and spells. So there is no difference: using a history check to study a magic item works, but not all DMs will allow it--some would ask for an Arcana check. This ability applies expertise to the topic instead of the skill.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Omega9999 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:40 am

have you ever tought about pitching all this work you have done to Blizzard? it seems really cool stuff!

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:09 am

That'll be great, actually. Unfortunately, most companies of Blizzard's tier are not receptive to such suggestions from natural persons (individuals). If Hasbro came up to Blizzard and proposed a World of Warcraft 5e book for approval, it might have the momentum.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Hibigimo » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:23 am

In the Warrior Fury subclass, the wording seems poor. It says both 'critical chance' and 'critical range', never specifying exactly what that means. It isn't super unclear, but honing these details is what will make this whole project shine. Also, did I miss it, or is there really no thrown weapon support in these?

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:13 am

I've clarified the wording on the Fury Warrior.
@Thrown Weapon Support: Like class features and feats? There is minor support for it for the warrior--specifically the Heroic Throw ability, which allows the warrior to either knock the enemy prone on a thrown weapon attack or get it back (boomerang style).
I personally love using thrown weapons with my rogue characters, but Warcraft has barely (if any) thrown support, so as a conversion, there is little room to maneuver.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:59 am

The published-quality PDFs are 97% finished, and will hopefully be out within this week. Real life caused a crippled pace, but we're getting there.

Hopefully after the PDFs are done, version 2.5 will be rolled out, likely in the middle of the month.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by LordRevos » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:17 am

Hello! I'm really thankful for your work in this edition. I have a group and we've been playing WoWRPG (3.5) for 4 years or so. A few months ago we wanted to play 5e since we some of us began watching Critical Role and we thought that it was fun and combat a bit more dynamic. Thanks to google we found this edition and we have been having a blast!

(The members of the I DM group currently play as: Human Outlaw Rogue, Pandaren Mistweaver Monk, Draenei Restoration Shaman, Dwarf Protection Paladin, High Elf Frost Mage and High Elf Frost Death Knight)

We got a few questions for you!

1) Frost and Blood Death Knights, each of them get their own [Strike] ability (Blood Strike and Might of the Frozen Wastes). Do these [Strike]s cost any mana or you just need to declare them (using your bonus action) to be able to use them?

2)The spell Hammer of Wrath can be used again on a creature as long as the creature is below half its health or only when it hits that health threshold?

3) When is that new edition coming? We almost can't wait. :twisted:

4) Considering that you're going to release an Alchemist class soon. Will you rework the Apothecary subclass into the Alchemist?

5) Will you make Demon Hunters as their own class?

6) Will you open a discord or similar as it was mentioned before to discuss more about the game?


I have done a few changes into my game as homebrew that I would like to share here, just because of making game play a bit more like lore. In my game I renamed 'Fel' damage into 'Shadow' damage. (This is mostly because these two come from totally different sources, for example Third Generation Death Knights are not known for being able to use the Fel. And Necromancy and the power to raise the dead does not come from the Fel.)

We use Fel as its own subtype of damage for certain spells. (Like Chaos Bolt)

A few of the Racial Feats from the PHB, I changed the prerequesites like allowing Night Elves to earn Fey Teleportation. Or Dark Iron Dwarves having access to Flames of Phlegethos.

Regarding debilitate and invigorate spells, I feel like some of these spells could be changed to be less versatile but instead making them more simple. For example: Curse of Agony, it could be changed so it deals damage and maybe give the ability to cause poisoned status as a reaction from Curses to Affliction Warlocks.

The mana system I like the way it is so far, but it would be nice to hear what you have to that system now.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:00 pm

@LordRevos: You're all very welcome! 5e is lighter and faster to run, and it doesn't have as much options, although the 3.5 WoWRPG doesn't have any support anymore.
LordRevos wrote:1) Frost and Blood Death Knights, each of them get their own [Strike] ability (Blood Strike and Might of the Frozen Wastes). Do these [Strike]s cost any mana or you just need to declare them (using your bonus action) to be able to use them?
Any Death Knight can prepare runes as spells (although they have to prepare them separately, as other array spells). That means that if your player can prepare 3 spells, they'd have to prepare Blood Rune and Frozen Waste Rune in two out of their three spell slots.
Strikes cost only half the mana of a spell of that spell level. Assuming it's 5 MP for a 1st level spell, the rune would cost only 2.
2)The spell Hammer of Wrath can be used again on a creature as long as the creature is below half its health or only when it hits that health threshold?
Once--the trigger is falling below one-half hit points.
3) When is that new edition coming? We almost can't wait. :twisted:
Soon, I hope. The Alchemist is finished, but I'm still working on the subclasses.
4) Considering that you're going to release an Alchemist class soon. Will you rework the Apothecary subclass into the Alchemist?
Yes. They will be a necromancy-focused alchemist.
5) Will you make Demon Hunters as their own class?
Do you think they should be?
6) Will you open a discord or similar as it was mentioned before to discuss more about the game?
Once the PDF is finished.
I have done a few changes into my game as homebrew that I would like to share here, just because of making game play a bit more like lore. In my game I renamed 'Fel' damage into 'Shadow' damage. (This is mostly because these two come from totally different sources, for example Third Generation Death Knights are not known for being able to use the Fel. And Necromancy and the power to raise the dead does not come from the Fel.)
We use Fel as its own subtype of damage for certain spells. (Like Chaos Bolt)
Version 2.5 adds Fel damage, and makes the distinction between Unholy damage (cast by necromancy spells) and Fel (cast by spells with demonic origin). I've relented to previous suggestions. :)
A few of the Racial Feats from the PHB, I changed the prerequesites like allowing Night Elves to earn Fey Teleportation. Or Dark Iron Dwarves having access to Flames of Phlegethos.
I should check that out. Thanks!
Regarding debilitate and invigorate spells, I feel like some of these spells could be changed to be less versatile but instead making them more simple. For example: Curse of Agony, it could be changed so it deals damage and maybe give the ability to cause poisoned status as a reaction from Curses to Affliction Warlocks.
I'd like some feedback on how they work right now, since I'm considering reforming them to work in a more uniform way.
The mana system I like the way it is so far, but it would be nice to hear what you have to that system now.
There are a lot of additions and changes to the next version. I'll add a changelog and make it as detailed as possible.

Since I've posted already, I have an idea I'm not sure what to do with. I'm contemplating a change to resurrection and raise dead mechanics once I began thinking about the Forsaken. They're undead! They heal differently, and that messes with team composition.
Now there is support for healing undead (death coil, Death Knight's touch, potions that become easier to make and find once the alchemist rolls out, and self-healing with cannibalism).
So I was thinking that the rules embrace the undead nature of Forsaken instead of trying to make Forsaken act as if they're normal PCs. I was thinking about tweaking Animate Dead to (you guessed it), revive Forsaken players.
That makes resurrection of Forsaken easier, and sort of gives a different feel for them; it's harder for them to heal, but easier to let them die and animate them later.

Is the concept interesting to explore, or should the rules keep Forsaken as-is and focus on different aspects of the game (more items, spells, or dungeons)?

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by BG_None » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:40 pm

Hi, I've been watching the progress of this work for quite some time, but as I get closer to actually start playing I finally needed to post something :D. First of all, you've done a lot of great work, so thanks for that guys. But then, I do have some questions.

Priest
It seems that a section about spellbook half copied from the Druid and the rule about learning new speels is yet different from the Magic chapter. So to clarify:
- when advancing a level you learn 2 spells overall, choosing among the spell levels you can cast, OR
- do you gain 2 spells of every spell level you can cast (so for example Priest advancing to level 5 gains 2 spell of lvl 1, 2 spells of lvl 2 and 2 spells of lvl 3)?

Death Priest
At level 2 he get's Lich King's Favor which gives him all the necromancy spells. Are those spells still confined to Priest Spell List or is it EVERY necromancy spell in the book?

Also wanted to say that it kinda feels like the Mana amount over the levels barely changes. I know the cost of spells also slightly decreases but the difference between lvl 1 and 20 seems to be like 1 or 2 spells casted. That said, I am eagerly waiting for the reworks you mentioned :D

Equipment
I saw the suggestion somewhere before, but do you plan on adding Wands or Scepters as magic users weapon of choice? They have crossbow or bow weapons proficiency anyway, but I feel this could be more 'thematic'. It could not need ammo, but have lower damage or range (or both). For example 1d6 damage (lower than crossbow, same as shortbow), range 30/120 (same as sling, lower than both x-bow and shortbow), no ammunition needed, one handed, similar price to other weapons? Then maybe add some more powerful version but also costing accordingly? I know there is the Mystic Blast ability, but it is a feat, which don't come that easy, and it still needs mana to work.

As of the Forsaken resurrection thing, personally I look at it this way: death is the moment when the body is damaged enough that it cannot contain the soul within anymore. Once the body is 'repaired' the soul can be reattached at the Altar because altar serves as a kind of conduit for souls. Then Resurrection is a spell that repairs the body enough to contain the soul again and 'reconnects' the soul 'in the field', while Animate Dead is a spell that doesn't have any use for soul and only uses the empty vessel to do your bidding. And since Forsaken still have the will of their own, I assume they still have the soul, hence why Ressurection should work :D

#Edit. One more thing

Shaman
"A shaman also casts priest spells." By that you mean the Cleric spells from DnD5e books or every Priest spell, including for example Death Coil, Death Pact and that kind of stuff?

Considering this, I feel like it could be good idea to, on the spell lists in Magic chapter, either specify what exactly does 'Special' mean on each list, or completely remove it and make full list of spells including those from DnD5e books. Even without description, just having a complete list might avoid confusion.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:33 pm

All right, I've set up a Discord server, but it's pretty bare at the moment. We'll focus most of our work there, hopefully. :)

@BG_None: A pleasure!
* Priest: 2 new spells of any spell level you choose whenever you level up. That goes for free developed spells. A spellcaster can always research or steal spells from others.
* Priest, Death: The Death Priest adds all necromancy spells (regardless of spell list) to their spell list at the appropriate levels.
* Mana: It's true that mana feels like it doesn't get easier to cast, but it really does. A 1st and 20th level mage have vastly different costs for their spells. A sleep spell would cost 5 for a 1st level, and 1 for the 20th level (who cast from a larger mana pool, and have several options to regain mana faster). Repeat-casting makes spells easier to continue casting as well--as a second sleep spell in the next round would cost only 2 mana for the 1st level caster!
* Equipment: I've added it in version 2.5: a mystic wand. It is basically the Mystic Blast feat-in-a-wand. Unlike the feat, it doesn't require a minimum amount of mana.
* Shaman and Priest spells: I'll revise that to make it clearer. I intended originally to allow Shamans to access D&D 5e cleric spells, but it will be revised to be clearer and less...lazy. *sweatdrop*
* Special: Do you mean by special in each list?

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by BG_None » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:41 pm

Cool, sounds good, thanks for the reply :D
As for Special, in most spell lists, right below Class and Spell Name there is Special. I assumed that means they have access to additional spells (like from official books) but wasn't entirely sure.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:19 am

No problem.

Alright, here's the proposed overhaul to debilitate/invigorate spells. I'd love some feedback for it.
1. Instead of being called [debilitate] and [invigorate], both are changed to [sigil] spells
2. Instead of consciously choosing to spend a debilitate or invigorate use to deal the secondary effect, the spell automatically deals its secondary effect at the beginning of every round, saving throw negates. While the target suffers from this, they also have a secondary condition.

Case in point, here is the old and new Mind Blast spells in comparison.

(Old) Mind Flay [PRS 3, WRK 3]
Evocation [Debilitate]
Casting Time 1 action
Components V, S
Range 60 feet
Duration Instantaneous, plus one minute or three uses (whichever comes first)
You focus your mental powers into creating a nexus of damaging psychic power in your enemy’s mind. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 3d4 psychic damage, and they are affected with a flayed mind for one minute. You may use your reactions to impose the following penalties.
1. The target takes 1d4 psychic damage.
2. The target takes disadvantage on any d20 roll.
3. The target is slowed until the beginning of their next round.
Heightened. You may gain one additional use, and the initial and secondary damage increases by 1d4 per level above 3rd.

(New) Mind Flay [level 3]
Evocation [Sigil]
Casting Time 1 action
Components V, S
Range 60 feet
Duration Up to one minute
You focus your mental powers into creating a nexus of damaging psychic power in your enemy’s mind. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 3d4 psychic damage. At the beginning of every round, they take 3d4 damage again (Spirit saving throw negates the damage and ends the spell). So long as the spell is active, you can use a bonus action to either impose disadvantage on the target's next d20 roll, or cause them to be slowed until the beginning of their next round.
Heightened. The damage taken increases by one dice per every level above 3rd.

The overhaul applies to healing spells as well, in which case a successful saving throw keeps the spell going on for another round (otherwise it ends prematurely). In terms of spells that affect debilitate spells (such as combustion or shadow bolt), they deal the damage again and force another saving throw.
This hopefully simplifies the spells and make them more accessible, even though it takes from their flexibility.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by BG_None » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:00 pm

I like the new version. The fact, that you can get even stronger effects constantly, but also the possibility to negate the spell pretty much right away. Can't really say how powerful it is, considering I've never digged much into magic, but the idea itself is nice.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Soulblight » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:38 am

Arrius Nideal wrote:No problem.

Alright, here's the proposed overhaul to debilitate/invigorate spells. I'd love some feedback for it.
1. Instead of being called [debilitate] and [invigorate], both are changed to [sigil] spells
2. Instead of consciously choosing to spend a debilitate or invigorate use to deal the secondary effect, the spell automatically deals its secondary effect at the beginning of every round, saving throw negates. While the target suffers from this, they also have a secondary condition.


The overhaul applies to healing spells as well, in which case a successful saving throw keeps the spell going on for another round (otherwise it ends prematurely). In terms of spells that affect debilitate spells (such as combustion or shadow bolt), they deal the damage again and force another saving throw.
This hopefully simplifies the spells and make them more accessible, even though it takes from their flexibility.
So with healing spells will the characters need to pass or fail a saving throw to maintain an invigorate effect?

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:59 am

@BG_None: Hopefully people will find sigil spells more accessible now.
@Soulblight: Yes. If they succeed on the saving throw, they maintain it for another round.

As a side effect of these rules, targeting bad (or good) saves will become more of a viable tactic. The Shaman's Ancestral Guardians spell heals a target for 2d4 hit points as a 2nd level spell, and reduces damage taken by 1 point. Not distinct or powerful at all, but if the Shaman casts it on a person with a good Stamina saving throw, the target can repeat the save at the beginning of their turn in the next round to gain the same healing again. Possibly again, up to a maximum of one minute of keeping the spell.
The value of initial healing makes Holy Light (Cure Wounds) more attractive for battlefield survival (2d8+spellcasting modifier), but Ancestral Guardians a more useful support spell with longer potential running time.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:31 am

Regarding Battle for Azeroth--I am hoping that the new array of talents can help players design a Dark Ranger instead of having to make an archetype. Anduin is swinging swords and wearing heavy armor like no tomorrow, despite him being a priest (although Blizzard stated that NPCs don't care about the rules).

One idea I am contemplating is taking the garrison idea from Warlords and integrating it into the rules, so you can command soldiers (like in mass combat). That way, we can sort of have a little Warcraft III in our game. I am not sure how interested you guys are for it, though. Worth it?

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