Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Discuss the World of Warcraft campaign setting, as it relates to pen & paper RPGs, here.
The Book-House: Find Warcraft/World of Warcraft products.

Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby Bonetti » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:32 pm

Blizzard unveiled the art for garrisons today. That's interesting for players of the MMO.

However, to me the interesting part from a tabletop perspective is this (from the older post on garrisons), which I don't think has been mentioned or discussed yet:
In Warlords of Draenor, you’ll make a permanent impact on the world with a Garrison: your own personal fortress that you build, staff, and manage. You’ll customize your Garrison’s layout, appearance, and gameplay effects, and attract followers to operate it. The Garrison allows World of Warcraft players to own a larger part of the world than ever before, and opens up a wide variety of interesting gameplay decisions—with as much or as little micromanagement as you wish.


For those who have wondered how to integrate domains into Warcraft or WoW RPG, or even looked for a way to see how it would interact with an ongoing campaign, it may be worth keeping an eye on how the garrison is woven into the quest chains and story of Warlords of Draenor. (I know that other MMOs have done various forms of player housing, but I don't think any of them have tied them directly into the ongoing game.)

Obviously, at this point it's just a preview, but there might be some story bits which can be mined later.
Last edited by Bonetti on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Darokin expansion (maps, notes, merchant houses)
NaNoWriMo: Winner 2013-2016; Camp NaNoWriMo: 2014-2017
Image
User avatar
Bonetti
Fire Giant
 
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: Garden Grove, California

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby Big Mac » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:18 am

This looks pretty interesting. Looks like it would fit in well with D&D's "Leadership" skill and the idea of building a stronghold and attracting followers. Thanks for starting this thread. I think this would be a great thing to raid for tabletop play.

I'm not so sure about the idea of a garrison being visible on the horizon. It sounds like the MMO is going to make these towns follow people around. :| But the idea of customisable locations could be really great for someone wanting to build tabletop maps.

Your "older post on garrisons" link seems to be the same as your "garrisons" link. :?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 22135
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby Bonetti » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:13 pm

I was referring to the older of the two posts (so far), and resupplied the link to match the quote.

My interpretation of the garrison placement is that there are fixed locations where the garrisons can be (and the player gets to choose one of them). By "visible on the horizon", I suspect they want the garrison to be visible to the player at a distance, not that it follows you around. The current Sunsong Ranch, which is a private phase of a small farm in the middle of one zone, does not get populated with the contents you've earned until you get really close to it. It sounds like they want the phase boundary to be far enough away so that it feels like part of your version of the world, rather than something that phases in when you get really close. I also assume this fixes the issue of seeing people riding/flying in and disappearing (as they enter their own phase) while you're in your version of the farm.
Darokin expansion (maps, notes, merchant houses)
NaNoWriMo: Winner 2013-2016; Camp NaNoWriMo: 2014-2017
Image
User avatar
Bonetti
Fire Giant
 
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: Garden Grove, California

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby night_druid » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:38 pm

Big Mac wrote:This looks pretty interesting. Looks like it would fit in well with D&D's "Leadership" skill and the idea of building a stronghold and attracting followers. Thanks for starting this thread. I think this would be a great thing to raid for tabletop play.


Yeah, looks to be a video-game implementation of old-style followers & henchmen. One thing really lacking from the game. :)

Hmmm, in AD&D, you generally didn't attract followers until level 9(ish), and they implement this for 90+ characters. Odd coincidence of numbers, anyways. :)
Moderator: Spelljammer, Kingdoms of Kalamar. My moderator voice is green
User avatar
night_druid
Radiant Dragon
 
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:08 pm

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby Big Mac » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:03 pm

Bonetti wrote:I was referring to the older of the two posts (so far), and resupplied the link to match the quote.


Thanks for the clarification. :)

Bonetti wrote:My interpretation of the garrison placement is that there are fixed locations where the garrisons can be (and the player gets to choose one of them). By "visible on the horizon", I suspect they want the garrison to be visible to the player at a distance, not that it follows you around. The current Sunsong Ranch, which is a private phase of a small farm in the middle of one zone, does not get populated with the contents you've earned until you get really close to it. It sounds like they want the phase boundary to be far enough away so that it feels like part of your version of the world, rather than something that phases in when you get really close. I also assume this fixes the issue of seeing people riding/flying in and disappearing (as they enter their own phase) while you're in your version of the farm.


That does seem like a good way to make it seamless. If they can get that working well, maybe they could eventually get rid of the portal effect at instances.

night_druid wrote:Hmmm, in AD&D, you generally didn't attract followers until level 9(ish), and they implement this for 90+ characters. Odd coincidence of numbers, anyways. :)


If that means that 10 World of Warcraft levels are worth 1 D&D level, that could see the MMO going up to 200 levels. :o :shock:
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 22135
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby night_druid » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:45 am

Big Mac wrote:If that means that 10 World of Warcraft levels are worth 1 D&D level, that could see the MMO going up to 200 levels. :o :shock:


If it were (non-A) D&D, then they might go up to 360th level. ;)
Moderator: Spelljammer, Kingdoms of Kalamar. My moderator voice is green
User avatar
night_druid
Radiant Dragon
 
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:08 pm

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby Bonetti » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:25 pm

Now that I'm in the beta, here's a little more information. The location is fixed, the buildings you can build are fixed (but the plans are drops or quest rewards -- although you can buy all the ones you are missing from a vendor in the garrison once you hit max level). Your garrison comes with a fixed number of plots of different sizes (small, medium, large), and you can only build appropriately-sized buildings on a given plot. They've changed the plan slightly, in that the garrison now has only a single location (Frostfire for Horde, Shadowmoon Valley for Alliance) but grows with you and continues to be a key location.

The initial quest sets you up with a barracks and a follower. Additional missions and quests can net you new followers, or access to new missions. The missions run independent of what your character is doing -- your followers are off questing or running instances or whatever.

So far, it looks like it's well done, and it could be a model on how to structure a dominion-based phase in a tabletop game. In fact, it offers a model for integrating one specifically into the Warcraft RPG.
Darokin expansion (maps, notes, merchant houses)
NaNoWriMo: Winner 2013-2016; Camp NaNoWriMo: 2014-2017
Image
User avatar
Bonetti
Fire Giant
 
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: Garden Grove, California

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby night_druid » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:49 pm

Interesting. So is it a case that the garrison is a specific, instanced area? Does it exist on the world map, or is it entered via a portal somewhere? Does everybody get the same instanced area (aka everybody's garrison is located at the same spot, just different instances? Or do you pick one of many different locations?
Moderator: Spelljammer, Kingdoms of Kalamar. My moderator voice is green
User avatar
night_druid
Radiant Dragon
 
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:08 pm

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby Bonetti » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:02 am

In Wrath, they introduced phasing (of objects), in Cataclysm they introduced phasing (of geometry). This is using both techniques. So, it's effectively part of the world map, but when you go to it you are seeing only your version. (Note: although it does not appear to be in yet, there will be an option to invite other players to a group, and they can visit your garrison.)

If you played Mists of Pandaria, it's like a much, much larger Sunsong Ranch. No instance portal, just a private part of the world.
Darokin expansion (maps, notes, merchant houses)
NaNoWriMo: Winner 2013-2016; Camp NaNoWriMo: 2014-2017
Image
User avatar
Bonetti
Fire Giant
 
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: Garden Grove, California

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby Big Mac » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:36 pm

Bonetti wrote:Now that I'm in the beta, here's a little more information. The location is fixed, the buildings you can build are fixed (but the plans are drops or quest rewards -- although you can buy all the ones you are missing from a vendor in the garrison once you hit max level). Your garrison comes with a fixed number of plots of different sizes (small, medium, large), and you can only build appropriately-sized buildings on a given plot. They've changed the plan slightly, in that the garrison now has only a single location (Frostfire for Horde, Shadowmoon Valley for Alliance) but grows with you and continues to be a key location.


I hope that one of the MMO websites puts up floorplans of the buildings that PCs can construct. I think they would be very useful for tabletop play.

A garrison being located only in Frostfire or Shadowmoon Valley would work fine, but I'm sure a GM could allow other garrisons to be built elsewhere in a tabletop game.

Bonetti wrote:The initial quest sets you up with a barracks and a follower. Additional missions and quests can net you new followers, or access to new missions. The missions run independent of what your character is doing -- your followers are off questing or running instances or whatever.


Followers doing quests sounds a lot of fun.

I'm not sure how that could translate to tabletop play. Maybe it could be a bit like Birthright. Or maybe it could be a bit like the infamous character creation system from Traveller (where PCs can get killed while being created). Either way, I like the idea of a leader having a public/semi-public goal that their followers are working towards.

I wonder if two or more PCs could somehow build a garrison together. That may or may not work in the MMO, but if two tabletop characters with the Leadership feat could "pool their resources" and ask their followers to work together, they should be able to build a single stronghold. If a GM could come up with rules to deal with "joint-leadership" that might be a good way for a bunch of WoW: RPG players to run their group as a guild. (Maybe you could even run a tabletop game, where each player has a number of alternative characters within the same guild and all the PCs that take the Leadership feat attract NPCs to the guild.)

Bonetti wrote:So far, it looks like it's well done, and it could be a model on how to structure a dominion-based phase in a tabletop game. In fact, it offers a model for integrating one specifically into the Warcraft RPG.


I just looked at the Garrisons article on Wowpedia and they have a lot of information there.

It seems that a garrison is a base of operations built to combat the Iron Horde (*cough* Orc Nazis from a parallel universe *cough*). There are eight main clans in the Iron Horde:

I guess that, the (current) idea with the garrison's being located in Shadowmoon Valley or Frostfire is that the garrison is on the edge of Iron Horde territory and your garrison would allow you to slowly move into Iron Horde territory, with a view to smashing the Iron Horde. That seems to make more sense from the Alliance point of view, but I guess the Horde point of view is that these alternate-timeline orcs want to take over their faction.

Relocating a garrison to another place in the tabletop game (or moving it to an earlier part of the timeline) would probably work best if you located another Warcraft plotline, that was as iconic as the Iron Horde plotline and built follow goals around that plotline.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 22135
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby Bonetti » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:33 pm

The Horde story is that Garrosh split the Horde due to his insistence that the only real Horde is orcish (and everyone else is a hanger-on), diverging from Thrall's weaving together various aligned races. Vol'jin's rebellion was an attempt to reclaim Thrall's vision for the Horde.

I think there is a fragment of the Horde which continues to follow Garrosh, because they agree with his "Orcs Only" vision. I'm unclear on whether they follow him through the portal, or if its only Garrosh on the Draenor side (although I'm sure the Iron Horde picks up allies once it takes over the Dark Portal and invades Azeroth).

Horde players are assumed to be part of Vol'jin's Horde.

Regarding followers, I think of them as the MMO version of henchmen. Since the game does not currently support grouping with NPCs in any meaningful fashion (...except Proving Grounds), they're more like "people who harvest resources for you".

Given that they have introduced NPC-based parties (again, see Proving Grounds), it's possible they could allow you to use your followers some day to do instances. (On the other hand, they do really favor social play, so even if they have the tech they will likely resist putting it in.)

I would be more likely to mine the follower mission ideas as challenges that a player or group of players would need to overcome as they establish their domain (i.e. garrison). The followers themselves can be used as henchmen, or other NPCs who are going about their business.
Darokin expansion (maps, notes, merchant houses)
NaNoWriMo: Winner 2013-2016; Camp NaNoWriMo: 2014-2017
Image
User avatar
Bonetti
Fire Giant
 
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:03 am
Location: Garden Grove, California

Re: Warlords of Draenor: Garrisons

Postby night_druid » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:01 pm

Heh, you know, that HAS to be one odd experience for orcs (in universe). Orc from the present timeline is wandering through some zone in alt-Draenor, and gets attacked by a wandering orc. Only once he's victorious does he realize..."daddy? I just killed my dad! NOOOOOO!!!!!"

:D
Moderator: Spelljammer, Kingdoms of Kalamar. My moderator voice is green
User avatar
night_druid
Radiant Dragon
 
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:08 pm


Return to World of Warcraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests