Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Discuss the World of Warcraft campaign setting, as it relates to pen & paper RPGs, here.
The Book-House: Find Warcraft/World of Warcraft products.
Post Reply
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23423
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:28 am

The World of Warcraft MMO has a feature where PCs get killed, turn into ghosts, and then travel off to the local graveyard to come back to life.

The Ghostwalk Campaign Setting has a feature where PCs get killed and can carry on playing as ghosts. Although, in Ghostwalk, dead PCs are only able to manifest in the city of Manifest, and are incorporeal elsewhere.

Has anyone ever considered doing a tabletop Warcraft game, where PCs getting killed and coming back from the dead is something that is actually possible or common?

I can see this MMO element radically changing a tabletop game, but in Ghostwalk, it seems a bit more "realistic" than in the MMO, because PCs actually have to do something to be brought back from the dead.

Perhaps if groups of people could carry off the bodies of their fallen comrades, and then perform some sort of ritual at a graveyard, to return the ghost to the body, that might be a hybrid between what the MMO does and what Ghostwalk does (with its free-from-level-loss system in Manifest).

If something like this was done, a TPK would still kill the entire party, but one or two character deaths might be "reversible" with less cost. I know that the MMO made people pay for equipment to be repaired. That would make sense if people had been stabbed to death and their clothing all had stab holes in it. I'm not so sure it makes sense for damage to a magical sword.

Something like this, would work for the NPCs, as well as the PCs, so if the players decided to take on a powerful gang of bandits, they would either need to wipe them out in one go, or the bandits might discover some of the bodies and bring them back from the dead to find out who killed them. So it could be a good way to set up situations where the PCs end up with enemies. :twisted:

Something like this might also create a situation where the PCs could find the body of a murdered person, take that body to the town where it comes from and have a bunch of locals bring the body back from the dead. There might be a reward for doing that sort of thing, especially if the "free return from the dead" rule only lasted for a short amount of time*.

* = Maybe ghosts need to be put back into their bodies within a month, a week, 24 hours or before the next sunrise. Or perhaps there would be stronger spells or longer rituals that were used for souls that had been out of their bodies for longer amounts of time (to make up for the amount of decay in the dead body).

Another way to go with this, might be to make dead characters make a saving throw of some type, in order to get back into their body for free. That could make it easier for higher level characters to get back into their bodies for free, without making this an automatic "done deal". It would still mean that some NPCs could come back from the dead after the PCs kill a group of bandits, but it would be more likely to be the bosses that come back.

There used to be a quest to kill Edwin VanCleef, and bring back his head (as proof). If someone were to play a game of tabletop World of Warcraft, where the "bad guys" could come back from the dead, chopping off someone's head and taking it to the local authorities, would be a great way to ensure that the ghost of that person could not simply pop back into the body after their minions performed some sort of simple ritual. :)

I can imagine the Defias Brotherhood being a much bigger problem if the Stormwind Guard were killing brotherhood members, only for some of them to be brought back from the dead. And if the Defias Brotherhood could kill isolated members of the Stormwind Guard and then bury or cremate the body, that would mean that they could permanently get rid of some of the less experienced knights.

I am not sure I will go with this idea - I'm just floating it right now - but I think it could potentially make for an interesting campaign, with long-term hostility between rival factions. :D
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Arrius Nideal
Ogre
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:46 pm
Gender: male

Re: Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Arrius Nideal » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:03 pm

The idea is interesting. Its only use, however, is to give PCs a way to come back to life without using Raise Dead or its upgrades.
I was tinkering with using the Altar of Heroes as a way to return them--takes a few days and costs 1/4 as much diamond dust (or racial equivalent) to finish, and the character returns with a negative level, or -2 Stamina/Constitution if at level 1. It's a cheaper more available option.

You're going to have to come up with an in-game reason why this isn't used for most commoners, though.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23423
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Big Mac » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:32 am

Arrius Nideal wrote:The idea is interesting. Its only use, however, is to give PCs a way to come back to life without using Raise Dead or its upgrades.
Yes. It would be a bit of a game changer (tabletop wise). I'm thinking this would be an optional rule that was just for people who liked the way that the MMO brought people back.
Arrius Nideal wrote:I was tinkering with using the Altar of Heroes as a way to return them--takes a few days and costs 1/4 as much diamond dust (or racial equivalent) to finish, and the character returns with a negative level, or -2 Stamina/Constitution if at level 1. It's a cheaper more available option.
What is the "Altar of Heroes"? I can't find an article by that name on Wowpedia. I can find an article for the Altar of Kings. That seems to be something that brings people to life (and it sounds better for bringing people back, than a graveyard).

I also see the Altar of Darkness for bringing characters back as undead (or maybe deathless if you want the Forsaken to be deathless in WoW: RPG).

The Altar of Stoms also seems to bring back heroes. It looks like there are three of them.

Here is an article that lists all the types of Altar. It seems like altars, in general, are for bringing back heroes. The other types listed there are: I also see a section called "The Altar of Damnation" in the "Gul'dan" article, but I don't understand the context of that section. :oops:
Arrius Nideal wrote:You're going to have to come up with an in-game reason why this isn't used for most commoners, though.
Maybe. Or have commoners come back too.

One way to "limit" things would be to require bodies to physically be brought to an altar and to require a ritual to physically be carried out. That would mean that if a commoner gets killed while they are wandering in a forest collecting firewood, they might be considered lost and the time required to "bring them back for free" might expire before anyone found the body. But a rich person or important person, might be travelling with a retinue of other people who bring back the body and organise the ritual (or pay for the person/people who carry out the ritual).

Another way to "limit" things would be to rule that an altar can only bring one person back per hour/night/week/month or some other period. That might slow the thing down enough that rich people or other important people are able to gain access to it, but commoners die so fast, that only a few of them are ever brought back with an altar.

A third way to go, would be to look at the Ghostwalk rules for "The Calling" and see if something like that could limit "free return from the dead". With Ghostwalk, characters can continue to play as ghosts and can actually gain class levels as ghosts. But "The Calling" means that if a ghost has more experience as a dead person than as a living person, they get pulled over to the afterlife and can no longer resist the pull.

I don't propose to have ghost-play in World of Warcraft, although it might be fun to have PC ghosts have to travel from the site they died at to an altar, in order for a ritual to "bring them back for free" to work. (Perhaps a short one-PC adventure, where they tackle obstacles that want to stop them getting back could be part of the process. :? )

Perhaps, if the "bring characters back for free" process only worked a small number of times, that could be a way to limit it. Suppose that you didn't actually charge characters level loss, to bring them back from the dead, but you considered what the level loss effect would have been and used that to decide if a PC/NPC could "come back for free". If you had a progression like this, perhaps that could be a limit:
Character level|Maximum times a character can "return from the dead for free" 1|0 2|1 3|2 4|3 5|4 6|5 7|6 8|7 9|8 10|9 11|10 12|11 13|12 14|13 15|14 16|15 17|16 18|17 19|18 20|19

Something like this would allow PCs to come back from the dead, but not allow them to do it an infinite number of times. If they kept getting themselves killed, the altar process would simply stop working for them, but if they kept levelling up, they would "earn" some more opportunities to come back from the dead. Very high level PCs/NPCs would be able to come back many times (one time less than their level) so that would make them harder to defeat (if they had the supporters who would try to bring them back).
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Posts: 8420
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:39 am
Gender: male
Location: Gamer Haven

Re: Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:55 am

Big Mac wrote:Perhaps, if the "bring characters back for free" process only worked a small number of times, that could be a way to limit it. Suppose that you didn't actually charge characters level loss, to bring them back from the dead, but you considered what the level loss effect would have been and used that to decide if a PC/NPC could "come back for free". If you had a progression like this, perhaps that could be a limit
Why not just base it on Constitution score? That could be a bigger help at lower levels. And perhaps a feat could be offered to add addition free resurrections.

Favored by Fate
You are unchained from the laws of death.
Prerequisite: ? (if any)
Benefit: You gain an additional three free resurrections.
Special: This feat can be selected multiple times and its effect stacks.
Tarragonverse Index

Reading
Book/Novel: Back To The Future III novelization
RPG Reading: Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos


RPG Projects
Codename: Eternals (Pathfinder Kitbash, Multiple settings premise)
Codename: Trinity (One solar system with three inhabitated and Earth-like worlds in the Goldilocks zone / Codename: Eternals system, but none of the three worlds are connected to the Codename: Eternals setting)

User avatar
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Posts: 8420
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:39 am
Gender: male
Location: Gamer Haven

Re: Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:01 am

Or alternately add the characters Constitution modifier to the number of free resurrections.
Tarragonverse Index

Reading
Book/Novel: Back To The Future III novelization
RPG Reading: Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos


RPG Projects
Codename: Eternals (Pathfinder Kitbash, Multiple settings premise)
Codename: Trinity (One solar system with three inhabitated and Earth-like worlds in the Goldilocks zone / Codename: Eternals system, but none of the three worlds are connected to the Codename: Eternals setting)

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23423
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Big Mac » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:15 pm

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Big Mac wrote:Perhaps, if the "bring characters back for free" process only worked a small number of times, that could be a way to limit it. Suppose that you didn't actually charge characters level loss, to bring them back from the dead, but you considered what the level loss effect would have been and used that to decide if a PC/NPC could "come back for free". If you had a progression like this, perhaps that could be a limit
Why not just base it on Constitution score? That could be a bigger help at lower levels. And perhaps a feat could be offered to add addition free resurrections.

Favored by Fate
You are unchained from the laws of death.
Prerequisite: ? (if any)
Benefit: You gain an additional three free resurrections.
Special: This feat can be selected multiple times and its effect stacks.
Interesting concept. I can see it having pros and cons, but I like it. :D
Angel Tarragon wrote:Or alternately add the characters Constitution modifier to the number of free resurrections.
I think I like this a lot more. :D

The pure Constitution thing would block anyone with a Constitution below 12 from getting a chance to come back from the dead for free. This would make Constitution important, but not prevent anyone with low Constitution scores from being brought back. With this system, someone with a low Constitution score would not be blocked from coming back - they would just be blocked from coming back for a few more levels. (So a PC/NPC with a Constitution score of 5 (-3 modifier) would need to get to 4th level before they could be returned from the dead in this way.)
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.


User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23423
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Big Mac » Fri May 01, 2015 1:07 pm

Arrius Nideal wrote:Constitution or spirit (wisdom). I can definitely see the ideas brewing.
I forgot about the customised "d20 WoW: RPG System" names for abilities. :oops: :facepalm: I guess that if they have spirit, it makes sense to make that the ability used.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Bonetti
Fire Giant
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:03 am
Gender: male
Location: Garden Grove, California

Re: Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Bonetti » Fri May 01, 2015 4:20 pm

I just want to add one tiny thing (as something between an aside and a possible inspiration for a storyline). In the MMO, there was a quest chain to find out who Linken was. The quest has since been removed (Thanks, Cataclysm!), but one step required you to die. You were provided with an item to kill yourself (without durability loss, if memory serves) then go visit an NPC/questgiver (ghost) who was only visible while dead.

The elixir just saved you the durability cost, you could die normally in-game and still find the questgiver.
Darokin expansion (maps, notes, merchant houses)
NaNoWriMo: Winner 2013-2016; Camp NaNoWriMo: 2014-2017
Image

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23423
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Warcraft + Ghostwalk = ?

Post by Big Mac » Mon May 18, 2015 12:37 pm

Bonetti wrote:I just want to add one tiny thing (as something between an aside and a possible inspiration for a storyline). In the MMO, there was a quest chain to find out who Linken was. The quest has since been removed (Thanks, Cataclysm!), but one step required you to die. You were provided with an item to kill yourself (without durability loss, if memory serves) then go visit an NPC/questgiver (ghost) who was only visible while dead.

The elixir just saved you the durability cost, you could die normally in-game and still find the questgiver.
That's awesome Bonetti! Thanks for finding that! That is the sort of thing I would want to see if Ghostwalk was folded into World of Warcraft. :cool:

I've checked on Wowpedia, and found the full quest chain: The rewards of this quest chain are:
Linken's Boomerang, Linken's Sword of Mastery or Spirit of Aquementas.

I'll have a read through that later, to see if anything useful can be made from the entire thing. :)
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Post Reply

Return to “World of Warcraft”