Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

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Arrius Nideal
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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:30 pm

Update: As of September 4, I have added the Shaman class.
Basically a clerical domain, its prime feature is being able to cast totem spells (which act as spells, and not class abilities). It is based off the core Tempest domain, but with added abilities, and the choice to focus on specific elements (storm, earth, and fire).

That said, I have had a thought: Everyone mentions class specializations (retribution paladin, protection warrior, enhancement shaman, etc.), and I have found a solution to a question I've been having. How are we supposed to make such class options viable?
The answer is simple: Specializations are class-specific feats that can only be taken at level 3. This prevents humans from entering the game quicker than normal, and considering their strength, they would probably be the first choice players make when granted a feat.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by grimm » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:41 am

After going over the races section a bit more i see things that could be considered strong or lackluster

Minor Stuff

Wildhammer Dwarfs
Dwarven Rider: Unless your getting a gryphon really early feels rather lackluster should have something for the early levels as well.

Tauren
Gore: Should be a D10 rather than 8 if your adhering to 5e as the actual document on WOTC website has minitaurs at a D10.

Concerned stuff

Orcs
Forest Trolls

Both the Battle Rage and Beserking feature for the races need to be removed or changed in some way i see you were simply trying to port over from the 3.5v of the table top but the 3rd edition and 3.5 edition rage was a much different thing than the new one is just too powerful for a race feature even at once per long rest. There is no other race that has that kind of power, you get resistance to damage, extra damage, adv on saving throws for an entire combat as long as you can stay fighting.

Im sure with a little tweaking and changed we can figure something that would be far more appropriate

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:54 am

Warhammers: I am considering Bravery (advantage vs. fear) for them, besides making gryphons a racial mount. That is a thing I might change, considering their 3.5 legacy.
Tauren: Unearthed Arcana from WotC is not balanced. D8 really is fine for an unarmed weapon attack. I'd rather not change this--but I would allow this to scale with size and remain with shapeshifting (which I assume it already does). A tauren druid who shapeshifts into a bear would keep the piercing attack (as shapeshifted Tauren Druids look distinct because of them). I'll add a clause for that if it's needed.
Orcs/Troll battle rage: Rage is quite difficult to maintain in combat (last on average for one or two rounds), according to most players and playtesting. I'd keep this, since it may end early, and most players (even dedicated Barbarians) don't make full use of this. Besides--it's only advantage on Strength saving throws.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:38 pm

Update:
Added new Paladin abilities--Seal spells to be added once Spells are addressed.
Divine Smite (or Crusader Strike): Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend mana equal to one paladin spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 5d8. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend. You may also smite without expending a spell slot if you are under the effects of an active [Seal] Paladin spell. Despite the name, Crusader Strike does not count as a Strike effect.
Lay on Hands: Your blessed touch can heal wounds. As an action, you may expend your remaining mana points, and gain a pool of healing. This requires touching a creature, and investing all mana points remaining. For every two mana points you spend, you gain 3 hit points (or a 1:1.5 conversion). Each use of Lay on Hands spends your mana pool to 0 mana. You may use Lay on Hands as a bonus action when targeting yourself.
Alternatively, you can expend 5 hit points from your pool of healing to cure the target of one disease or neutralize one poison affecting it. You can cure multiple diseases and neutralize multiple poisons with a single use of Lay on Hands, expending hit points separately for each one. When targeting a fiend or an undead, this instead deals Radiant damage equal to the amount of hit points it would normally heal. This feature has no effect on constructs.
Paladin’s Aura: When you reach level 2, you gain an aura, which may be activated as a bonus action. Auras affect you and all willing allies within a 30-foot-radius sphere, centered on you. If you are rendered unconscious or are concentrating on a spell, the effect ends. This requires concentration, but is not broken by damage. You start out with Devotion Aura, and may switch to other ones once you gain access.
Devotion Aura: At level 2, you grant yourself and all allies within 30 feet the benefits of Devotion Aura. This grants them +1 to AC per Charisma bonus you have. This does not stack with bonuses to AC from spells (such as from Shield or Mage Armor).
Might Aura: At level 6, you gain Might Aura. If active, you and all allies gain +1 damage per point of your Charisma modifier to all direct non-spell melee or ranged attacks. This does not stack with Blessing of Might. This extra damage is applied only once per turn.
Retribution Aura: At level 10, you gain Retribution Aura. If active, you and all allies inflict 1 Radiant damage + 1 point per Charisma modifier to any attackers who deal damage with a non-spell melee attack. This bonus damage is applied once per turn.
Concentration Aura: At level 14, you gain Concentration Aura. If active, you and all allies have advantage on Stamina saving throws to maintain their concentration on a spell.
Resistance Aura: At level 18, you gain Resistance Aura. Once you declare use of this as a bonus action, you may also declare an energy type (acid, fire, cold, electricity, necrotic, radiant, psychic, or thunder). Against any single attack, effect, or spell, usable once per turn. A creature benefitting from this aura may declare resistance versus damage of that particular type as a reaction.
Added the Death Knight archetype, which alters base Paladin abilities.
Death Knight’s Aura: When you reach level 2, you gain an aura, which may be activated as a bonus action. Auras affect you and all willing allies within a 30-foot-radius sphere, centered on you. If you are rendered unconscious or are concentrating on a spell, the effect ends. This requires concentration, but is not broken by damage. You start out with Aura of Abandonment, and may switch to other ones once you gain access.
Aura of Abandonment: At level 2, all enemies within 30 feet of yourself suffer the effects of Aura of Abandonment. This reduces the enemy’s AC by -1 point per Charisma bonus you have. If opposing Devotion Aura, both effects are negated.
Aura of Weakness: At level 6, you gain Aura of Weakness. If active, all enemies take -1 damage per point of your Charisma modifier to all direct non-spell melee or ranged damage rolls. This extra damage is applied only once per turn. This cannot reduce damage to lower than 1 point. If opposing Might Aura, both effects are negated.
Unholy Aura: At level 10, you gain Unholy Aura. If active, you and all allies gain +10 to your movement speeds, and regain 2 hit points per Charisma modifier every 10 minutes. If opposing Retribution aura, both effects are suppressed, and the timer on the healing effect is interrupted.
Distraction Aura: At level 14, you gain Distraction Aura. If active, all enemies within range have disadvantage on Stamina saving throws to maintain their concentration on a spell. This aura may also be directed as a bonus action to focus on a particular creature within 90 feet. If opposing Concentration aura, both effects are suppressed.
Vulnerability Aura: At level 18, you gain Vulnerability Aura. Once you declare use of this as a bonus action, you may also declare an energy type (acid, fire, cold, electricity, necrotic, radiant, psychic, or thunder). Once per round, you may declare a single enemy in 90 feet as if vulnerable to that energy type for as long as you concentrate, to a maximum of 1 minute. After being affected once, the target cannot be subject to this again until you take a long rest. This otherwise allows for no save. If opposing Resistance Aura, both effects are suppressed.
Unholy Smite: This otherwise acts as divine smite, but deals necrotic damage instead of radiant damage.
Corrupting Touch: This otherwise acts as lay on hands, but deals necrotic damage instead of radiant damage if targeting a living creature, and heals undead and fiends.
Death Pact: Beginning at 14th level, you can use your action to slay an undead or fiend, and gain their life force as your own. The targeted creature is entitled a Charisma saving throw, or else be reduced to 0 hit points. You gain ½ the creature’s total hit points as healing. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of once). You regain expended uses when you finish a long rest. This cannot be used against undead or fiends whose CR exceed your Proficiency bonus. This replaces Cleansing Touch.
Note: Seal spells allow for Crusader's Strike to act much like in WoW: instead of using spell slots (or mana), you may break a seal and impose judgments. All auras being Concentration effects (but usable as Bonus Actions) strike a balancing factor. Lay on Hands also drains mana to 0 (as the game), and provides what might amount to a lot of healing.
Death Knights' ability to perform Death Pact (as the game), as well as its direct scaling quality is a callback to the game's design. I am facing an issue with choosing a Sacred Oath or possible conversions.

New Ideas: Runes.
Runes can be designed as spells (acting as a polar opposite to seals). In this case, being discharged by Unholy Smite allows for it to be called Runic Strike (as WoW). As for the Death Knight's weapon, I am considering allowing for them free access to a magical weapon that scales with their level (starting as +1 at level 5, +2 at level 11, +3 at level 17), but I am not sure of the idea's possible balance (especially since magic weapons are exceptions, and not norms).
Otherwise, being able to cast Death Coil, rise dead, discourage and counter paladins, as well as aiding (or abusing) his undead retinue, Death Knights function quite well. Abilities like Death Grasp can be replicated by death-knight only spells, as well.
Last edited by Arrius Nideal on Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by djmove » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:44 am

WoW, you have been busy a lot Arrius. And I was doing it as a hobby when I had some time but you my man, your doing something with a professional style.

I had started writing up on the Warrior and it's archetypes (since it's the class I know very well since it's the only class I played on WoW XD)

For example

Arms
Mortal Strike: As an action, you make vicious strike that deals normal weapon damage and puts a bleeding effect on your victim equal to your proficiency bonus. This continues until the victim succeeds on a DC 15 Heal check, someone else succeeds on a DC 15 Heal check to stop the bleeding for him/her, or the victim receives magical healing, which stops the bleed damage. Creatures with the regeneration ability are immune to the bleeding effect.

Recklessness: You can throw aside all concern for defense to attack with fierce desperation. When you make your first attack on your turn, you can decide to attack recklessly. Doing so gives advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against you have advantage until your next turn.

Slam: With a powerful swing, you can knock back your foes or slam them to the ground knocking them prone. Whenever you hit a creature, you can impose one of the following effects on that target:
It must suceed on a Dexterity saving throw or be knocked prone.
It must make a Strength saving throw. If it fails, you can push it up to 10 feet away from you.

Battleshout: With an inspiring mighty roar, you inspire your allies to perform better. As a bonus action, you can let out a shout that affects all allies within 30 feet from you. For a number of rounds equal your proficiency bonus, they gain advantage on their first attack roll each round.

Overpower: So mighty are your blows that even armor can barely stop your strikes. When you miss an opponent but would have hit them if not for their armor, you can inflict normal damage. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus.

But then Grimm contacted me on reddit and showed me his work,which is really what I was aiming at, an adaptation of the game to tabletop than instead some conversion.

I'm still going through your classes Grimm and really like what you did. You nailed the archetypes so far and what their suppose to do.

One thing though, I have some trouble understanding what the Aura of the Pally do. I get Devotion and Crusader but Retribution and Sanctuary aren't clear.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:25 am

djmove wrote:WoW, you have been busy a lot Arrius. And I was doing it as a hobby when I had some time but you my man, your doing something with a professional style.
I see what you did there.
djmove wrote:But then Grimm contacted me on reddit and showed me his work,which is really what I was aiming at, an adaptation of the game to tabletop than instead some conversion. I'm still going through your classes Grimm and really like what you did. You nailed the archetypes so far and what their suppose to do.
I know what you mean: Grimm's work is excellent. I've taken some of his ideas under Death Knight, and will continue to develop it. I will add runic spells (which are paladin seal spells), and change Unholy Smite to Runic Strike, and fix the Death Knight.
djmove wrote:One thing though, I have some trouble understanding what the Aura of the Pally do. I get Devotion and Crusader but Retribution and Sanctuary aren't clear.
Alright--Retribution damages any enemy who hits you or your allies with a small amount of radiant damage whenever they hit you. Good for weakening low-hp mobs like skeletons that come en masse, and also good versus multiple attackers.
As for Crusader and Sanctuary--they're not added yet. I do think a sanctuary aura would be too gamey (aggro and all), but Crusader can work as the Death Knight's Unholy Aura without changes.

We have to determine what classes need which changes:
Death Knight: Requires runes, small changes to runic spells (as seals), and runic strike. May willingly turn into an undead or remain living (if turning to undead, gain +2 Charisma).
Druid: No changes as far as I see: Moonbeam acts pretty much like spamming Moonfire, Rejuvination can act as a Cure Wounds spell a level higher (2d8+modifier), but spread over three rounds. Thorn whip cantrip is amazingly cute, and may be buffed to push as well as pull.
Hunter: Added shot/sting spells (which act as strikes). I already have Arcane Shot and Black Arrow ready.
Mage: I think everything is already OK. Does not require conversion, just new spells.
Monk: Expansion-daria, amirite? (Yes, I know we did the Death Knight already--bear with me). But I do think the elemental monk already does the job pretty well.
Paladin: Conversion done. Looking sweet. Paladin talent trees can be Sacred Oaths.
Priest: Illumination/Light or Darkness Domain cleric for priests and shadowpriests, I suppose. As mage, this requires new spells. Can't think of specializations.
Rogue: Covered pretty well already, just allow for poisons and crafting poisons. Vanish may just be a smoke (or flash) bomb.
Shaman: Shamanism Domain Cleric. I finished it recently, and it's looking adequate. Like mage and priest, needs spells, and already gains totems (Yay!)
Warlock: Added demonic retinue/companions. Instead of casting them as spells and using up precious mana, they remain for a long time. I am also considering giving them extra abilities on level-ups. Succubi, Imps, Voidwalkers, Felguards, and Felbeasts are up and running in the document (and Infernal is looming over). Warlocks may also cast Doom in some fashion (because, let's admit it: why not?). I do feel that they (Warlocks) should be 9th level casters, but I'll run on this chassis unless it proves inadequate.
Warrior: As-is, but martial archetype has the specializations (Fury, Arms, Protection). Perhaps iconic warrior abilities should be maneuvers, and allow for shouts (act like short-term auras).

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by grimm » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:38 pm

Thank you two for giving me such praise on my work. Im just trying to recreate what i loved and enjoyed playing throughout the years. However i feel with both Arrius work and my class work, if changes need to be made you will need specify as to which needs to be addressed as to avoid any confusion. As to your question about aura's i don't know if its refering to my work or Arrius work. If it was referencing my own:

Retribution Aura- When an ally or yourself is damaged in combat, the attacker will take damage equal to your charisma modifier.
Sanctuary Aura- When an ally is concentrating on a spell and are hit in combat they have advantage on save to maintain the spell.
My naming on them are slightly off because there aura's have changed over the years.


In addition, some class features are just reskined versions of what is currently in the 5e book, as alot of the abilities/features have already been flushed out and fit very well to the classes/subclasses. If things need to be tweaked or changed in my google drive, if you can make a suggestion on it or respond here and i will get to it as soon as possible as i check whenever i have spare time.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by djmove » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:04 pm

Here's some more things I wrote up

Professions

If we take enchanting for example, there are minor, lesser, normal, greater, superior and major as ranks to an enchant, That's 6 ranks.

Now, taking 5th edition system as example, that are 5 ranks for magical items: common, uncommon, rare, very rare and legendary.

What could be done is this: take out major as a rank, leaving it for epic levels and use the first 5 ranks.

Now seeing as how superior stamina is a 300 enchant rank, we can set it up for a 20 level progression as it is limited also in game by level.

In game, the required levels for each rank of professions is this:
Journeyman 75 (need to be lvl 10 to surpass; no lvl requirement for gathering professions)
Expert 150 (need to be lvl 20 to surpass; 10 for gathering)
Artisan 225 (need to be lvl 35 to surpass; 25 for gathering)
Master 300 (need to be lvl 50 to surpass; 40 for gathering).

If we consider a level 60 character (without expansion) that has the highest rank of profession (Master at 300), that would mean that in tabletop terms: 60/20=3.

So, for one to be able to train Journeyman (trainable at level 10 in game), a tabletop character would need to be level 4 (5th edition encourages rounding up and it would more or less work with the tier of plays set up by 5th edition system).

Journeyman: 10/3 = 3.3333333333 rounded up = 4
Expert: 20/3 = 6.6666666667 rounded up = 7
Artisan: 35/3 = 11.6666666667 rounded up = 12
Master: 50/3 = 16.6666666667 rounded up = 17

That would set a limit as to how powerful a tabletop character could make a recipe from a profession.

Now, if we compare that to a 300 point profession adapted to a 20 level progression tabletop character
300/20 = 15

A little table to see if it would work with above calculations

Level 1 / 15 / Level 6 / 90 / Level 11 / 165 / Level 16 / 240 Level 2 / 30 / Level 7 / 105 / Level 12 / 180 / Level 17 / 255 Level 3 / 45 / Level 8 / 120 / Level 13 / 195 / Level 18 / 270 Level 4 / 60 / Level 9 / 135 / Level 14 / 210 / Level 19 / 285 Level 5 / 75 / Level 10 / 150 / Level 15 / 225 / Level 20 / 300

Ok, so it works more or less well. Unless we add another trainable rank which would be the introduction of professions: Apprentice. And change up the ranks above. That would be 5 ranks

Apprentice: Can be acquired at 1st level. Recipes up to 60
Journeyman: Can be acquired at 4th Level. Recipes up to 120
Expert: Can be acquired at 7th Level. Recipes up to 180
Artisan: Can be acquired at 12th Level. Recipes up to 240.
Master: Can be acquired at 17th Level. Recipes up to 300.

Now back to our ranks of enchantments. If I compare the different ranks of the Stamina enchant to the item Belt of Giant Strength (DMG p.155), it coincides almost perfectly

Minor = Stam 1 Hill Giant: Strength 21
Lesser = Stam 3 Stone/Frost Giant: Strength 23
Normal = Stam 5 Fire Giant: Strength 25
Greater = Stam 7 Cloud Giant: Strength 27
Superior = Stam 9 Storm Giant: Strength 29

The problem here is that Cloud and Storm Giants are both legendary ranks in the DMG. So, I was thinking we could still do it like that but having the Superior enchantment be some sort of rare recipe (kind of a recipe you would get from a dungeon or raid in game. Would work well since, it should be extremely rare that you come across a Storm giant).

As for limits as to what a character would have as far as magic bonus, there is the attunement system in place in 5th edition we could use. 3 per character.

Now the question is, do we set it up as fixed number of stat as the Belt of Giant Strength or as a bonus to an existing stat.

In either case, having characters with 29 in 3 stats (if they so choose to attune to 3 recipe which would increase their stat) which would be the strongest example (as it is not common to see a character with 20 in 3 stats which would result in the same): monsters would be adapted accordingly so that it does not provoke an unbalance (which we would have to do since monsters from the 5th edition Monster Manual are built so that even players without any magic item can kill them).

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:01 pm

Is there a list of magic items, or do we refer to the DMG? I have an idea brewing.

With regards to classes, that is an excellent idea, Grimm: which class should we address first?
I think we should get the Paladin/Death Knight done first, since we already began development on them. I need ideas for seals and runes, and I already have Crusader's Strike and Runic Strike up.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by grimm » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:23 pm

If we are using your set of classes by all means, we should go ahead and get the pally/Death knight out of the way from there move on to a healer and into a range/melee damage dealer to complete the spectrum of the Tank/Heal/DPS. If we use the ones i have there pretty well at a finished point just in need of testing and number tweaking and possibly changing of there features.

If u want to use the rune system i have in place for my DK it could speed things up was well done, as for seals should be ether spells from a spell list or dun as a feature, after looking at my pally i currently dont have seals as a feature im feeling of moving it to a feature and removing turn/destroy undead features and putting them as spells as the pally in WoW did indead have a turn undead spell.

The way i did seals was from old vanilla wow with a Instant passive affect followed by expending the seal on the target for burst of extra damage or extra affect which consumes the seal in the process. If looking for a consumable resource like the Dk's runes or mana than Holy Power would be its equivealent or polar opposite.

As for other features for paladins in wow there "Big" features most people iconically deal with is there invunerablity bubble and lay on hands which was there full Hitpoints as a heal. Could do it so that it heals equal to your HD or could be used to remove poisons like current pallys. The Bubble could be done as for the next three turns you are invunerable to damage and deal half damage like wow but have it on a limited time limit.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by djmove » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:35 pm

Could refer to both the DMG and some profession recipes. I have always thought that 5th edition was more creative in the way of creating magic items instead of the restrictive "you need create wondrous item" to create a wondrous item.

If I take Dark Leather Tunic for example. It could be some form of armor made with special material (Darkleaf from 3.5?) that provides better defense than regular leather armor.

or Gnomish Shrink Ray, it acts as a reduce person beam effect (which the item in WoW reduces the target attack power. Being reduced reduces the die type of your weapon, disadvantage on strength checks and saving throws).

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by djmove » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:46 pm

Which I just thought about it, Gnomish Shrink way would work well with the Mountain Dwarves Dwarven Combat Training.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:05 am

Forum ate my post.

1. Paladins and Death Knights are cleaned up, and I added a subtle runic strike mechanic. Some strike spells (like plague strike, inspired by your work, Grimm) allow for the Death Knight to perform a Runic Strike without expending a spell slot if the spell was initially successful.
We can add new spells (like Grimm's Path of Frost, Obliterate, Death Grip, Suffocate, and Corpse Explosion--I'd rather keep it as a spell) once we move on to magic. The core class is pretty much finished.

We can add Sacred Oaths now, which mirror specializations.
Paladins take one of the three oaths: Oath of Protection (Prot), Oath of Sanctity (Holy), and Oath of Retribution (Ret). Death Knights can take Path of Blood (Blood), Path of Frost (Frost), and Path of Desecration (Unholy).
In 5e, specializations are gained at level 3 (two features), level 7 (one feature), level 15 (one feature), and 20 (one capstone).
I'm sure we can get something running. Grimm already has archetypes, but they're not in the 3/7/15/20 order.

2. Regarding creating items, I have this idea working already, but I'll post it once we've finished classes and moved on to skills.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by SethGrey » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:09 pm

I'm rather late to this party but one issue I see is that we may be losing our focus. Do we intend to create an update of the 3.5 Warcraft RPG books to 5e, trying to recreate the MMO in pen and paper, or create our own RPG system based off 5e? For example the crafting rules that had hit been suggested. It would be more in-line with 5e to have a new craft skill instead, but if our focus was to create a new system to recreate the MMO in pen and paper that system is fine. Secondly the mana system worries me on how that would interact with 5e if someone wanted to play a Warcraft caster in a non-Warcraft 5e game? How would mana interact with a sorcerer's font of magic? In essence we have to decide if we want this 5e Warcraft to be a separate entity unconnected to 5e D&D expect for the base rules we take our roots from, or if we want a D&D Bard to be able to fight alongside a Death Knight as the old 3.5 Warcraft RPG books allowed. Do keep in mind this is not a criticism of anyone here or of the ideas suggesed. I only worry for this project's future as without a clear focus and goal we may not end up creating exactly what we want. Lastly I apologize for grammatical errors, it's rather difficult to type between my college courses, but I wanted to pen this thought down before I lost it.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:22 pm

Hey, Seth.
I will speak for myself: we are converting WoW (the MMORPG) to 5e.
However, since Warcraft 3.5 exists, and is a good enough reference, I do think we should draw upon it for mechanical inspiration to achieve WoW 5e.
Since the mmo, 3.5, and lore in-game make some assumptions based on mana/tech/skills, we crafted a few subsystems to enrich our experience.
True, we deviated from 5e, but in that we refer to 3.5, and to the game's lore. Warcraft is too rich to make an easy conversion.
The new mana system works well with most existing spell-slot recovery systems, and is optional. If not using mana, there is no access to mana burn, blessing of wisdom; brilliance aura, etc. They can be excised without issue. We will address the mana system more deeply once we approach the skills chapter (as in, after we are done with classes), and iron out any problems the mana system faces (or ultimately decide if we want to use mana at all).
As for other classes fighting- (like a bard with a death knight), I see no problem. Conversion is concerned with giving classes from WoW similar mechanics when played on 5e, and not providing classes to replace the initial list.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by djmove » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:13 pm

Hi Seth, welcome to the group.

Yes, my original post was talking about using the archetypes from 5th edition which would fit perfectly to duplicate the specializations to be made in the MMO.

What we are doing so far is not a 5th edition in itself but something that would be more or less played the same way 5th edition is played (proficiencies, advantage & disadvantage, archetypes, skills).

No, I don't think it would be balanced if we would take any character made through this system and make it fight a monster from the D&D 5th edition as those monsters are built to take in account that players can defeat them without any magical items and that it is balanced with the combinations of classes that could be made (although about this last part, I believe they did an awful work as some monsters need re calibrating in my opinion. I've seen some weak ones own and stronger ones being owned by the same group).

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by djmove » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:19 am

Alright, here are some tweaking and suggestions that I saw

Warrior

Rage Power
[*]If we compare Heroic Strike and Cleave, they can both cost 5 rage but heroic strike has an added effect at 5 rage which is +1 to hit. And since we can distribute our attacks the way we want across the opponents at reach, I feel Heroic strike has an upper hand. Maybe change it that you can cleave through your opponent dealing strength damage to an adjacent enemy of your primary target (of course, if your roll to hit would be high enough to hit him also).
[*]Wounding: Could change the initial damage to a normal weapon strike. Like that, it makes it more simple to remember the mechanics (you dmg your opponent and make him start to bleed for 1d4). I'm taking the Sword of Wounding as example here (dmg p.207). Instead of the first effect from the dmg, your increased effect as extra rage fits perfectly.
[*]Harmstring: Same as wounding above, a normal weapon strike.
[*]Compelled duel: Since we'll probably make a spell chapter, just refer it to the spell instead of the PHB (in case those who will download our PDF don't have the PHB). Except, nice find.

Mortal strike: Since warriors can attack twice per round at 5th level, can it be done instead of an attack or its just one attack and voila, next. Basing myself of the monk where he can add extra effects to his flurry of blows if he choose the way fo the open hand archetypes.

Sweeping strikes: A perfect example of what cleave should do (with cleave costing 5 rage and using the bonus action).

Deep Wounds: Would it stack with or supersede Rend?

Titan's Grip/Single Minded Fury: Just a small issue here, normally one can only use weapons with the light property when two weapon fighting. Do we change that so you may now do two weapon fighting with any weapon that can be hold in one hand. Like that, it would balance out with those choosing to dual wield Two Handed Weapons.
For example
[*]Before: Best light weapons increased by one die type: Shortsword at 1d8 ( average 5) and Best two handed weapon Greatsword at 2d6 (average 8)
[*]After if we make the change: Best one handed weapon increase by one die type: Longsword at 1d10 (average of 6) and still the same for two handed weapons.
It doesn't make a huge difference but the average becomes closer. Could even go to two die type above to make it a difference of only 1 in average damage.

Recklessness, I would change it usable every time you want to. Works well for the Barbarian 2nd level in PHB.

Nothing to change to protection.

Just have to attribute at which level which ability gets acquired.

Its pass 4 AM here, gotta go to bed, will continue with other classes tomorrow.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by grimm » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:00 pm

djmove wrote:
Warrior

Rage Power
[*]If we compare Heroic Strike and Cleave, they can both cost 5 rage but heroic strike has an added effect at 5 rage which is +1 to hit. And since we can distribute our attacks the way we want across the opponents at reach, I feel Heroic strike has an upper hand. Maybe change it that you can cleave through your opponent dealing strength damage to an adjacent enemy of your primary target (of course, if your roll to hit would be high enough to hit him also).
[*]Wounding: Could change the initial damage to a normal weapon strike. Like that, it makes it more simple to remember the mechanics (you dmg your opponent and make him start to bleed for 1d4). I'm taking the Sword of Wounding as example here (dmg p.207). Instead of the first effect from the dmg, your increased effect as extra rage fits perfectly.
[*]Harmstring: Same as wounding above, a normal weapon strike.
[*]Compelled duel: Since we'll probably make a spell chapter, just refer it to the spell instead of the PHB (in case those who will download our PDF don't have the PHB). Except, nice find.

Mortal strike: Since warriors can attack twice per round at 5th level, can it be done instead of an attack or its just one attack and voila, next. Basing myself of the monk where he can add extra effects to his flurry of blows if he choose the way fo the open hand archetypes.

Sweeping strikes: A perfect example of what cleave should do (with cleave costing 5 rage and using the bonus action).

Deep Wounds: Would it stack with or supersede Rend?

Titan's Grip/Single Minded Fury: Just a small issue here, normally one can only use weapons with the light property when two weapon fighting. Do we change that so you may now do two weapon fighting with any weapon that can be hold in one hand. Like that, it would balance out with those choosing to dual wield Two Handed Weapons.
For example
[*]Before: Best light weapons increased by one die type: Shortsword at 1d8 ( average 5) and Best two handed weapon Greatsword at 2d6 (average 8)
[*]After if we make the change: Best one handed weapon increase by one die type: Longsword at 1d10 (average of 6) and still the same for two handed weapons.
It doesn't make a huge difference but the average becomes closer. Could even go to two die type above to make it a difference of only 1 in average damage.

Recklessness, I would change it usable every time you want to. Works well for the Barbarian 2nd level in PHB.

[*]Rage Options:So i see what you see with the damage on the few abilities should be upped to your weapon damage.
[*]Deep Wounds: was intended to be extra and stacks with rend as it did in WoW.
[*]Mortal Strike: Is to be used like a rage ability and this like all other rage abilities you can use it with the extra attack feature as long as you have sufficient rage to use it again. If you feel it should be changed let me know and we can work out a suitable change.
[*]Titans Grip/Single Minded: Glade you brought this up, i kinda just threw something in so that not everyone did dual wielding of two handers. Made the change so it increases by two die levels so the 1D8 would become a 1D12, reducing the large gape between the two.
[*]Recklessness: i completely forgot about that with the barbarian even though thats kinda where i pulled it from. Made a change where it can be used every short rest for 1min time. This way its available every fight unless your doing a series if fights like in WoW.
[*]As for cleave and sweeping strikes, i do agree something needs to be done with them. Possibly make cleave sweeping strikes and change sweeping to a every short rest , next three rounds your attacks sweep into all targets in a 5foot cone of you equal to weapon damage. Does that seem fitting or should we tweak it more?

I will go ahead and make the changes my google docs however and will change again if we come up with something.

Thank for the feedback and welcome the rest :)

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:29 pm

djmove wrote:What we are doing so far is not a 5th edition in itself but something that would be more or less played the same way 5th edition is played (proficiencies, advantage & disadvantage, archetypes, skills).

No, I don't think it would be balanced if we would take any character made through this system and make it fight a monster from the D&D 5th edition as those monsters are built to take in account that players can defeat them without any magical items and that it is balanced with the combinations of classes that could be made (although about this last part, I believe they did an awful work as some monsters need re calibrating in my opinion. I've seen some weak ones own and stronger ones being owned by the same group).
I don't feel we're moving far away from 5e to be considered another game, djmove. We do have a collection of houserules organized into a system (like mana/alchemy/engineering), though the game is still very much D&D.
I am not sure we should be moving too much into magic item territory--5e has heavy restrictions with attunement, so that the problems in 3.5 don't come across. I will try to make our changes more on the light side (or, failing that, in sync with 5e rules), all things considered.

@Rage: This is interesting. Do you want us to come up with a rage system for Fighters? It is going to be a doozey.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by djmove » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:36 am

Not far away but there will be highly encouraged optional system (mana, professions, etc) to represent more the Warcraft playing style which will set it apart from the base 5th Edition.

As for attunement, highly agree with this but can still tap into magic items with the attunement condition. Warlords of Draenor did something similar which limited characters to wear only 3 of an item to a specific profession (which we're bind on creation). So say I make a leather worker. I would be able to create boots, pants, vest, hat, cape, etc etc etc. But would have to choose 3 from all of these that I could attune for. It would add a lot of diversity.

But as for a list of magic items, agreed that we should not move into magic item territory, yet. Just more of an overview like they do in the PHB and some rules for the professions which could be used with the current existing magic items.

But like you said, we'll talk professions later. I was just thinking out loud of an idea I had while trying to sleep (my best moments of creation haha).

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:28 pm

Ok. I finished the Paladin's three specs: Prot, Ret, and Holy.
An Azerothian Paladin chooses from one of the below three sacred oaths.
Each Azerothian paladin gains the ability to Turn Evil as one option for Channel Divinity. Depending on their oath, they gain another option for each Channel Divinity use.
Turn Evil. As an action, you present your holy symbol and speak a prayer censuring fiends and undead, using your Channel Divinity. Each fiend or undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is turned for 1 minute or until it takes damage. A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can’t willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can’t take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there’s nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.
Oath of Holiness
A Paladin of the Oath of Holiness invokes the power of the Light to protect and heal.
Oath of Holiness spells
Paladin Level Spells
3rd protection from evil and good, sanctuary
5th lesser restoration, zone of truth
9th beacon of hope, dispel magic
13th freedom of movement, guardian of faith
17th commune, flame strike
Channel Divinity: When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the below Channel Divinity option.
Light of Dawn. As an action, you present your holy symbol, and release an outburst of the Holy Light of Creation, allowing any friendly creature within 30 feet to use a hit dice as if they rested. The ally also gains temporary hit points equal to double your Charisma modifier.
Holy Vision. At 3rd level, you gain the ability to critically hit with healing spells. When you touch or target an ally with a touch or ranged healing spell (such as Cure Wounds or Holy Light), you may roll a d20. On a natural 19 and 20, your spell has double effectiveness. On a natural 1, the spell is wasted. This applies when dealing damage to undead as well.
Holy Auras. At 7th level, your auras increase in strength. Numeric values increase by 2 points (Devotion Aura gains +2 AC, Might Aura increases +2 to damage, Retribution deals +2 Radiant damage), and and the benefits from Resistance Aura can be used twice per round.
Latent Prayer. Starting at 15th level, you may cast a healing spell on a creature that only activates whenever the creature wishes. This does not require concentration on your end, and the creature (or you) may declare use of the spell as a reaction. This effect remains for one day or until used, and leaves a holy mark that can be detected as the healing spell. A creature can only benefit from one such latent prayer at any given time. This may also be applied to undead.
Illuminated Healer. By 20th level, whenever a creature that benefits from a healing effect (such as Light of Dawn, or healing spell) originating from you manifest a holy shield. This holy shield grants them temporary hit points equal to the amount they were healed by you. This shield remains until the hit points are reduced to 0, or until ten minutes have passed. This effect does not stack with itself. Your healing spells critically hit on a natural 18.

Oath of Protection
A Paladin of the Oath of Protection uses Holy magic to shield him/herself and defend allies against attackers.
Oath of Protection spells
Paladin Level Spells
3rd Healing Word, Sanctuary
5th Lesser Restoration, Warding Bond
9th Beacon of Hope, Revivify
13th Aura of Life, Death Ward
17th Mass Cure Wounds, Raise Dead
Channel Divinity: When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the below Channel Divinity option.
Knight’s Move. You can use your Channel Divinity to swap places with any ally. As a reaction, choose one ally within 60 ft. of your size or smaller that you can see that is about to be attacked. You instantly teleport to the spot your ally was located and your ally moves to your previous spot, swapping places. You may use this ability before or after the result of the attack roll is known. If you use this ability before the attack roll, you can resist the attack as normal, but if done after, you must take the effects of the attack, even if you would have otherwise ignored it.
Avenger’s Shield. Starting 3rd level, you may throw your shield as a ranged thrown attack. The shield has a range of 30/90. If used against a target that is currently spellcasting, it imposes disadvantage to the creature’s required Stamina save to maintain the spell, or any check to concentrate while being hit. The damage dealt is equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier, and the damage dealt is half Radiant and half Bludgeoning.
The shield returns instantaneously to your hand, and may be used again in the same round. This requires having a shield.
Opportune Prayer. Starting at 7rd level, whenever you reduce an enemy to 0 hit points, you may cast a cure spell as a reaction. You may also do this whenever you critically hit or are critically struck.
Holy Sentinel. Starting at 15th level, whenever you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature’s speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn. Creatures within 5 feet of you provoke opportunity attacks from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach.
When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
Your Avenger’s Shield may also strike up to three enemies, so long as they are within 30 feet of one another.
Ardent Defender. At level 20, you may, as a reaction, you may gain resistance to all damage for one round, usable five times per day. If this ability is used, and you are reduced to 0 or below regardless, you may gain the benefit of any healing spell you can cast, without having to use the action to cast it.

Oath of Retribution
Paladin Level Spell

3rd Healing Word, Sanctuary
5th Lesser Restoration, Warding Bond
9th Beacon of Hope, Revivify
13th Aura of Life, Death Ward
17th Mass Cure Wounds, Raise Dead
Channel Energy.
Abjure Enemy. As an action, you present your holy symbol and speak a prayer of denunciation, using your Channel Divinity. Choose one creature within 60 feet of you that you can see. That creature must make a Wisdom saving throw, unless it is immune to being frightened. Fiends and undead have disadvantage on this saving throw.
On a failed save, the creature is frightened for 1 minute or until it takes any damage. While frightened, the creature’s speed is 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed.
On a successful save, the creature’s speed is halved for 1 minute or until the creature takes any damage.
Arm of the Law. At 3rd level, you can, whenever successfully releasing a seal or performing a Crusader Strike, Dash without using an action. You may also perform Crusader Strike at a range of 30 feet, but the damage dealt is only equal to the bonus Radiant damage dealt (I.E., 2d8 Radiant, or 3d8 if a fiend or undead). This is counted as a ranged spell attack.
Sword of Light. Starting at 7th level, you always add your Charisma modifier to damage rolls.
Emancipate. Starting at 15th level, your cleansing touch may be used at a range of 10 feet, and may always cast it on yourself, even when otherwise incapacitated.
Divine Storm. At level 20, you may deal your Crusader Strike damage at any hostile creature within 10 feet away from you. This consumes a use as normal for the ability. The effects of a released seal is applied only to one creature.
I am lacking in a spell list for the Ret paladin, but that seems enough for the moment. Any comments?

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:27 am

djmove wrote:Not far away but there will be highly encouraged optional system (mana, professions, etc) to represent more the Warcraft playing style which will set it apart from the base 5th Edition.
I can envision the Warcraft Warrior to be using the Battle Master martial archetype, with the following changes:
1. New advanced maneuvers are added. Advanced maneuvers have their own list, and any two normal maneuvers can be combined (used at the same time) as an advanced maneuver.
2. Advanced maneuvers cost mana. Regular maneuvers do not.

So we can have the Mortal Strike maneuver that halves all hit points regained for a minute, etc. More detail once we move to the Warrior class.

Announcement: Paladins/Death Knights are finished
What is special with Warcraft druids that is not in 5e Druids, and what conversion work do we need to do?

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by grimm » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:02 pm

Announcement: Paladins/Death Knights are finished
What is special with Warcraft druids that is not in 5e Druids, and what conversion work do we need to do?
Currently 5e druids shapeshifts are just that nothing special they mimc an animal where as WoW had unique abilties to each shapeshift except moonkin/tree form which was just an empowered caster shapeshift, it also costs mana to shapeshift in WoW. Thats really the difference in them, more detail in WoW shapeshifting below:

The druids in Wow have a very limited shapeshifting selection, literally (Bear, Cat, Travel, Moonkin/tree with spec).
[*]The travel is literally used just to travel long distances ex. level 15 sea lion for water travel, chetah at level 30 for ground movement, level 70 was air travel
[*]Bear is your durable form with lots of armour, meant for tanking. Abilities generated threat, had extra target cleave and two aoe abilties
[*]cat is your damage shape shift almost mimicking the rogue completely. Used combo point system with finishers. Revolved around bleeds and one aoe abiltiy.
[*]The moonkin is a heavly natural armoured shape shift that allows for spell casting in the shape shift. Strong caster with emphasis on working a eclipse meter to empower spells of the corisponding type (Sun/Moon).
[*]Tree form was brought in but removed later. However what it did was increase armour and increase the power of healing abilities.

Each shapeshift limited to you though to the abilities of that shapeshift. Bears could only use bear abilities, cats could only use cat abilities, Travel shapeshift had no abilities, Moonkin could cast offensive magic only, and tree could only cast healing/defensive magics.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:00 pm

I will integrate the notes into my class design.

Also: I have added mana fountains under the Magic chapter (with a short excerpt of the Sunwell and how it acts as an improved mana fountain), and am thinking about addressing resurrection.

In WoW, raise dead (as class abilities) have a relatively short casting time, and costs nothing. Also under the Altar of Kings (WarIII), it costs money, but can constantly be done. In 5e, casting time is one hour, and it costs 500 gp worth of diamonds.
The question is this: Should we be more lenient in raising the dead? In-game lore does not make frequent mentions to the idea, but there are ways to prevent raising the dead (most notably soul magic, the plague, and runeblade use).
We could have a Ghostwalk mechanic, where the dead must physically return from the grave (taking time equal to their walking speed), or we can have class-specific spells raise the dead without a cost.

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Re: Warcraft RPG 5th Edition...

Post by Arrius Nideal » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:13 pm

The druid is complete and is awaiting feedback in the document (Page 19).
Summary of changes
Added Rejuvenation: Rejuvenation doubles total hit points healed by Cure Wounds, but divides it over ten rounds. It was quite a powerful DoT at the time, and as an active spell effect, it is balanced by the fact that it can be dispelled and/or stolen.
Altered Wild Shape: The druid has a total of five forms: Land form (bear, lion, etc.), water form (sea lion, shark, etc.), aerial form (stormcrow, giant eagle, etc.), magic form (not elemental; creatures with innate magic like the moonkin), and plant (minor ancient). The druid can choose one creature from each category.
In exchange for this stipulation, the druid's Wild Shape ability improves as per HD/8, so 1/4 for level 2, 1/2 for level 4, 1 for level 8 (as in 5e naturally), and 2 for level 16 (new).

Nature Ward: The Circle of Cenarius replaces Nature Ward's immunity to fey and elementals' charm/fear and immunity to plagues and poisons (not a canonal reference), and instead grants druids at level 10 something else: increased power over their current form. Depending on their form, they can gain minor abilities from other classes (bear druids of the claw can roar and replicate paladin's might aura for a while, stormcrow druids of the talon can cast cyclone and faerie fire when in flying form, and moonkin can cast specific spells).

I have also specified the new druid spells.
Otherwise, I think we are ready to move on to the next class.

Death Knight: Complete, but requires Oaths.
Druid: Complete, but requires spells
Hunter: What do we need here, other than more shot spells?

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