Marduk_Bathory wrote:Hi guys. I actually joined The Piazza because I spotted there was a Warcraft forum.
Hi Marduk! Welcome to The Piazza! You might want to pop over to the Introduce yourself here
topic, say "hi" to the entire community and tell them about yourself (and what you like).
There wasn't actually a World of Warcraft forum when I joined The Piazza, but The Piazza has a special place called the Other Worlds
forum, where if enough fans of a campaign setting come together they can put in a request to get their own bespoke forum. So there might be people discussing other campaign settings you like in there. I'm one of the people that spent a couple of years building up Warcraft discussions in the Other Worlds forum, so it's great that the increased visibility that the subcommunity now has encouraged you to come over here. I hope you enjoy your time here.
Marduk_Bathory wrote:I don't have the book but I used to have access. I was going to buy it but I always put it off because I figured, with the success of the MMO it wasn't likely to go out of print any time soon. (I still don't get why it did at all).
You can still get the Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game and the World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game books on the second-hand market. The Piazza has a sister website, called The Book-House on The Piazza, and you can use The Book-House to help you find deals on all the Warcraft/World of Warcraft roleplaying books
. I still don't have all the books (some of them are stupidly expensive) but I check every so often and when the price falls low enough, I jump in and buy a copy.
The reason why the Warcraft/World of Warcraft books went out of print, was that the company that printed them, did so under a licence from Blizzard. That licence costs money to buy and money to renew and Blizzard also gets the option to look for another RPG company to give the licence to. If you look at Star Wars roleplaying, the licence has passed to three companies over the years and each one (West End Games, Wizards of the Coast and Fantasy Flight Games) has come up with radically different mechanics.
Getting back to the Warcraft licence, Blizzard first gave a licence to Wizards of the Coast. WotC actually paid a designer to create a book called Warcraft III Players Guide
and the book actually got finished and was even scheduled to be published (it even has a listing on Amazon). But just before the book got sent to the printers, WotC changed their mind and decided to cancel the book.
After WotC cancelled their book, Sword and Sorcery Studio (which was owned by White Wolf) got the Warcraft licence. The same company also had a licence (from WotC) to publish Ravenloft books for 3rd Edition. I'm not sure if WotC sold S&SS the Warcraft licence, along with the Ravenloft licence, or if they sold/gave the licence back to Blizzard, with Blizzard selling the licence onto S&SS. But I do know that they original line of Warcraft books were branded as "official Dungeons & Dragons books", so there must have been some sort of deal with WotC, at that stage.
After a while, Sword & Sorcery Studios stopped making Warcraft books with the "official D&D logo" and switched to making World of Warcraft books that did not have the "official D&D logo", so the deal they had with WotC must have ended at that point. Perhaps the deal they had with Blizzard was renewed, with a requirement for them to use the MMO brand name (instead of just Warcraft).
I did once meet a fan who claimed to have been doing work on an official 4th Edition D&D compatible version of World of Warcraft. He said he had been working under a NDA, and that the company had failed to publish anything and that their licence had expired. But when we spoke to him, he said that Blizzard had asked him to not talk about his work. I don't know if that means that their might be a 5th Edition version of World of Warcraft in the works, or if there might be something else in the works, or if he was just someone making up stuff that we could not verify. (Sadly some people do make stuff up on the Internet.) But I would have loved it if the guy had stuck around and told us more. (Or if he had come back under another name and simply spoken to us about WoW without mentioning his unpublished work.)
Marduk_Bathory wrote:This might sound odd to some people but I actually think that WoW is the most D&D inspired computer game I ever played, even when compared to games that actually have "Dungeons & Dragons" in the title. (I guess some people think I'm talking about the lore of the official D&D canon worlds, like dragonlance or forgotten realms, while I'm talking about more mechanical aspects).
It's not odd at all. A lot of the computer gaming market has evolved directly or indirectly from D&D. In the early days, when there was no such thing as a computer game industry, and companies were getting established, a lot of them hired ex-TSR staff, specifically because they knew how to design adventure and games.
D&D is definitely a majore inspiration for World of Warcraft and they have gone beyond the combat of some other fantasy MMOs and tried to introduce a lot of detail into the "campaign setting". It's still not quite the same thing as D&D, but it's a lot of fun.
Marduk_Bathory wrote:I have toyed with the idea of converting the dungeons from vanilla WoW (certainly NONE of the ones from TBC or later, they took one of the most hated aspects of table top RPGs, rail-roading, and put it into every dungeon on a computer game that had previously managed to actually avoid it. WTF??)
Some of my favourite discussions here, are about raiding ideas from the World of Warcraft MMO and using them for tabletop gaming.
I've even posted a topic, called [adventure] Twilight's Fall
about raiding the maps of the Blackfathom Deeps and using them with the Twilights Fall adventure hook, from Lands of Mystery
Unlike you, I don't see a reason to avoid raiding content from The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor or anything else that the MMO comes up with, for two reasons:
- Tabletop GMs do not have to use all the ideas from the MMO, so discussing anything here allows a GM to pick the things they like from old and new MMO content (without having to use everything else) and
- Even if tabletop GMs use an entire dungeon that they personally think is suboptimal, they can still tweak the plot to stop it feeling like a "railroad".
So I would encourage you to not worry so much about what era of the MMO is best and focus on the stuff that you think was good about any era. (Having said that, I'll probably be sticking in the era of the tabletop gamebooks, which is slightly different to the one used in the MMO.)
In a tabletop game the PCs also have options that they do not have in the MMO. They could wait around outside a dungon and capture or kill people that come out if it. They could try to barricade the entrance or take part of the dungeon and build a barricade in a defensible position.
So, I think that if you raid the map, raid the faction that is in the dungeon, raid the named NPCs in the dungeon and convert them into D&D NPCs and use the generic NPCs in a proportion that matches the location and the group of players that are up against them, you don't necessarily need to have the exact same number of opponents within a dungeon (or the exact same plot).
Marduk_Bathory wrote:I'm looking forward to reading through this and I would love to see what anybody thinks of some of the ideas I've been toying with for my table, if anybody is interested.
I am very interested. What is your favourite dungeon?