They really should give out reinstallation CDs/DVDs in Crusade (and all future expansions) as well as giving them away on the front cover of computer magazines. Without a subscription, the game itself is useless, so there is no reason for them to make you install part of this and download the rest. (Of course there will always need to be patches*, but you should be able to get hold of a disk that is less than a year out of date.night_druid wrote:Yes, you did. WoW is a week-long installation now, with the insane number of patches they've done. If I ever switch PCs again, WoW is getting cancelled. I'm not going through that BS again.Big Mac wrote:I gave up by that point. I'd already paid for the game and they were already making me pay ongoing rent. I just saw Burning Crusade as a way to fleece more cash out of my pocket. To be honest, I'm pretty sure I downloaded all of the BC content anyway as I spent about 3 days getting patches at one point. That really cheesed me off.
* = Talking of patches, WoWWiki says that one of Azeroth's two moons was removed by a patch. Does anyone know if this has been put back yet?
If I went for that, I could buy one of those Games Workshop sets that contain 20 of exactly the same figure and just paint them slightly different colours!night_druid wrote:Not only same stats, but the same weight & height as well.Big Mac wrote:But having said that, I think that this "sameness" is something that could be taken over to the WoW RPG*. Really, all the PCs (and NPCs) should have slightly more similar Str, Con and Cha scores than standard D&D.
Obviously I didn't get far enough into the game to get near either of these things. I only got into the mid 30s and was at the stage where I either ran around doing easy quests I had had for ages (and not getting much XP) or dropping those quests and then getting hammered while doing higher level quests.Bonetti wrote:They did this a couple of times. First, with the Ahn'Qiraj patch in retail WoW, where the participation in gathering quests plus the completion of an epic questline available only to the leading raid guilds allowed the gates of AQ to be opened. (It also rewarded a fairly unique mount.)Big Mac wrote: I was more thinking of something like:
- A new realm starts with basic WoW,
- The highest level players do X number of quests that "unlock" Burning Crusade,
- Then they could do Y number of quests that "unlock" Wrath of the Lich King and
- Then they could do Z number of quests that "unlock" Cataclysm.
Second, it was done later with the Sunwell patch, in which completion of dailies (by everyone) opened the sections of Quel'Danas.
They opened the ability to have personal progression in-game with the introduction of phasing in Wrath (used in the Wrathgate sequence, heavily used leading to the Sons of Hodir, but also lightly used in places -- such as the flightmaster at Nesingwary's expedition in Sholazar). From what I hear, this will be widespread in the zone revamps in Cataclysm.
Hmm. Sounds like I should cancel my plan to run a Spelljammer adventure where people have to discover the crystal sphere containing the city of Manifest and collect 500,000 sheets of Tereppekian Paper!Bonetti wrote:(As a side note -- the AQ gate blockage, as part of world-wide raid competition, actually went over very poorly. Low pop servers were very slow to complete the gathering, and on at least one server there was only one guild capable of completing the questline. That guild demanded tribute before opening the gate. The whole thing was an interesting experiment, but it had some real drawbacks. And, frankly, "gather 400,000 heavy linen bandages" was dumb, slow, and boring. Quel'Danas worked better.)
I'm surprised they haven't all unofficially subscribed to things like WoWWiki or Throttbot to help push them into archiving all the information they need.Bonetti wrote:Incidentally, I know someone who used to be on the WoW team. He said that they kept the RPG books around as the primary resource on layout and lore while building the world. I don't know if it's true anymore, but at the time the books were the only place all of this information was already assembled, collated, cross-referenced, etc.
Ironically, experience with the MMO is what makes me want to look into doing a tabletop game there. You just can't do certain things in the MMO and a tabletop game would allow you to get past those limits.Bonetti wrote:All that being said, having looked over the game books at one point (with the intention of running a game there), I backed away from it and ended up heading back to Mystara. Azeroth's interesting, but it'd be difficult (for me at least) to divorce it enough from the MMO to make it worth playing in
I think that the MMO distorts distances and makes everything smaller than it actually would be on a real planet.night_druid wrote:A couple of more annoyances from the game:
* All NPCs & creatures have a sight & hearing range of 5 yards. They are unable to see, hear, or otherwise sense anything further away than 5 yards, unless they are attacked.
* 1 acre of farmland is enough to feed entire kingdoms.
Clearly NPCs in World of Warcraft have got the same sort of ability to see alignments that PCs have. There is also this weird thing where alliance people and horde people supposedly don't speak the same language. I don't think I'd be using that in a tabletop game.night_druid wrote:* There are several high elves in the alliance, including at least one town that's at least 1/3rd high elf, yet blood elves (who are physically identicle to high elves) are attacked on sight in any alliance-held territory. How do they tell the difference between high elves and blood elves?
I mentioned the scale of the planet before. I do think it might be worth starting up another thread to try to compare RPG data and MMO data in order to attempt to work out how much the non RPG locations would need to be scaled up.Bonetti wrote:I kind of like that a town like Ratchet, which has a decent population in the RPG books (either 15k or 20k, if memory serves), has 10 or so in-game NPCs
Oh, and the entire city of Stormwind has two active farms (and one overrun) -- and the farmers on the two real farms aren't doing anything because they're too busy hating each other and keeping their kids from marrying.
The Defias Brotherhood is something that really makes me interested in looking into the RPG. There is a lot of information about them on the wiki page (although someone has slapped on a cleanup template, so some of the information may be problematic).Bonetti wrote:On the other hand, one could take the in-game quest storylines and build some fairly lengthy adventures from them. The Defias storyline, for instance, or the Arugal storyline from Silverpine, etc, are all ripe for plucking.
Hmm. Well, this is something that could easily be expanded upon by a GM running a tabletop game.night_druid wrote:Well, Outland more or less covers the portion of Draenor that was mapped in Warcraft II. But its strongly hinted at, given the presence of so many alien races (the birds, ethereals, and a couple of others) that Outland should be connected to a number of other worlds.Bonetti wrote:I'm annoyed that they didn't build onto Outland (née Draenor), which is just screaming for additional zones being tacked on by discovering new "islands" of the former world. Not to mention the number of portals to other worlds it should have, being a sort of planar nexus...
I'm currently thinking that Outland needs some Planescape-like connections while pre-destruction Draenor would have fitted better into a Spelljammer crystal sphere.
Are these four portals on the wiki? If they are then it should, hopefully, be possible for a GM to use all of them (regardless of which ones are active in the MMO).Bonetti wrote:There are four explicit portals to other worlds (the ones Illidan closed in WC3:TFT), three of which are in-game in WoW. I was rather hoping they would eventually open those portals back up and take things in that direction. I'd like to see Xoroth and Argus some day, and maybe the ethereal's homeworld as well.
Well, I haven't played as much as either of you, but I do think it is possible to run a tabletop game in a version of Azeroth that isn't necessarily identical to the original version.Bonetti wrote:My biggest problem is I've been playing since very early alpha (over six years now), so a lot is mentally firmly fixed.night_druid wrote:I might use Azeroth, but I'd use my own storylines. Or maybe my own world.
On the other hand, there are some great names there. I flat out stole "Splintertree" for a woods-dwelling orc tribe I used when starting a group through B10 a couple years ago. The WoW-players in the group got a kick out of that
Well, if I wanted to be that realistic to the MMO, I would set up a Chinese Gold Farming business on the side and charge players cash to have their character sheets bumped up!night_druid wrote:Another annoyance to include in your WoW RPG, Big Mac: high-level adventurers constantly BEGGING. "Can I have all your money?" And they are annoying about it, too, chasing you everywhere while begging for money. Sheez, if you don't spend your cash on vanity mounts, you might actually be able to afford a flying mount with some patience and questing. Its not like you don't roll in money soon after you get your mount (I went from like 20 gp to 650 gp in about 2-3 weeks with just normal questing in Outland). Sorry, pet peeve. Tired of being harrassed by level 60+ beggers (which you could ding their honor/rep for doing that crap).
EDIT: "[Warcraft]" tag removed.