Draenor as a campaign setting

[Big Mac]

Draenor got destroyed in Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal, and the remains of the world became Outland, but after reading up on the Warcraft and World of Warcraft novels, I'm wondering if there will be enough material there and in the canon of the Warcraft II game to run a tabletop game in Draenor.

There must be a lot of lore that hooks back to Draenor, and Outland must give us a lot of critters, locations and items that would have been present on Draenor.

Has anyone thought of running a Horde based campaign set on Draenor before the events that led up to the Horde invasion of Azeroth?

[ripvanwormer]

Speaking as someone who knows almost nothing about the World of Warcraft: sure! You have descriptions of the major intelligent races, a list of monsters, a major overarching conflict, and even a map. What else do you need? It seems like you could easily adapt generic adventures for the beginning of the campaign, swapping the generic races for Draenorish races, and slowly build up awareness of the threats posed by the Burning Legion, the Alliance, and the orc shaman Ner'zhul. Or create your own conflicts, if it takes place in a much earlier era.

[Bonetti]

As noted, there are maps, ideas of what races are there, some real lore hooks in the existing material, and at least some description in Rise of the Horde.

Of course, the Burning Crusade material would also be useful -- Nagrand is close enough to untouched to be able to pull most of that in. The Black Temple has a pre-Illidan story which could be mined. There's a fair amount of Draenei backstory which could be built on, and the orc story has become increasingly filled in over time.

And you have the bonus of a campaign-changing/campaign-ending climax as the portal is opened -- or with the shattering of Draenor into Outland when Khadgar and his allies close the portal. (In fact, one could run a second campaign with new characters, set in the post-Outland piece, where the contrast in the two versions of the world might be made very meaningful to the players.)

I'm not saying it won't take work, but does one ever really start from an already-completely-satisfying point? Even running stuff in Mystara, I'm inventing and modifying a lot as I go along, and there's already amazing amounts of material...

[Big Mac]

I think I might also try to look at Borka, the Spelljammer cluster in Greyspace. That is also a world that got shattered into fragments and the thing World of Warcraft has going on with the Horde and the Alliance is quite similar in theme to what Spelljammer has going on with the Humanoid fleet and the Elven Navy.

If I ever try to build a crystal sphere around Azeroth, it could be fun to see what other WoW-related worlds are documented and how the off-Azeroth factions come into the mix.

[Bonetti]

That would be useful for post-shattering Draenor (i.e. Outland), but I think the original question was after pre-shattering material, perhaps even pre-Burning Legion material.

That would be an interesting time to run in, actually. There are some hints on what it's like in Nagrand, at least with the Mag'har quest lines. I haven't played alliance through the zone yet, so I don't know for sure, but their equivalent faction probably has some history there as well. We know the locations of the various Draenei ships (Auchindoun, Shattrath, Oshu'gun), we know the history of some of the sites, and there are tantalizing hints of names and events in the Draenei and Orc archaeology materials.

In my opinion, there's enough material to form a skeleton that a GM with some time and ideas can flesh out.

[Big Mac]

That would be useful for post-shattering Draenor (i.e. Outland), but I think the original question was after pre-shattering material, perhaps even pre-Burning Legion material.

True. But I wonder if there is anything about the pre-shattered Borka that I might be able to reuse here (or anything here that I could reuse as the basis for a pre-shattered Borka). I suspect that Draenor is the much better developed of the two.

That would be an interesting time to run in, actually. There are some hints on what it's like in Nagrand, at least with the Mag'har quest lines. I haven't played alliance through the zone yet, so I don't know for sure, but their equivalent faction probably has some history there as well. We know the locations of the various Draenei ships (Auchindoun, Shattrath, Oshu'gun), we know the history of some of the sites, and there are tantalizing hints of names and events in the Draenei and Orc archaeology materials.

In my opinion, there's enough material to form a skeleton that a GM with some time and ideas can flesh out.

If I was going to see anything done with Draenor, I think I'd like to see a fully detailed timeline that allows for play in a number of periods. I think that any project would need to focus on one period, but giving detail on earlier periods would also give a GM ideas for plot hooks.

[Ivellius]

I'm a bit curious; is there anything in particular you're wanting? I'd say I know a decent amount of general information about Draenor even though I haven't read RotH, BtDP, or anything else from that time period. We get plenty of hints in BC, and I bet those books fill in a lot.

I've done brief write-ups of some of the civilizations/races and monsters unique to Outland. I'd have to dig out and recover some files from my old laptop (I need to do this anyway), but I could find some stuff, I think. If I knew more of what you wanted I could give more feedback.

[Big Mac]

I'm a bit curious; is there anything in particular you're wanting? I'd say I know a decent amount of general information about Draenor even though I haven't read RotH, BtDP, or anything else from that time period. We get plenty of hints in BC, and I bet those books fill in a lot.

I'm really just shooting in the dark on this, as I didn't know about this world until just before I started the thread. I'm still learning more about Warcraft and Draenor looked interesting to me because I'm also a fan of Spelljammer and this is possibly a way to help have enough stuff to build a crystal sphere around World of Warcraft.

I've done brief write-ups of some of the civilizations/races and monsters unique to Outland. I'd have to dig out and recover some files from my old laptop (I need to do this anyway), but I could find some stuff, I think. If I knew more of what you wanted I could give more feedback.

The writeups sound interesting. Are they of the "ecology of the..." type?

Anything you have on Warcraft/World of Warcraft might be inspirational (Outland or not). It would probably be good to start adding "[Outland]" tags to the titles of any threads related to Outland.

[Andrelvis]

This is a most interesting subject! I find Draenor to be a good world to include in Spelljammer, the orc and ogre cultures are especially interesting in that regard.

In any case, I believe I have a hex map of Draenor lying around, if anybody's interested.

[Birchbeer]

This is a most interesting subject! I find Draenor to be a good world to include in Spelljammer, the orc and ogre cultures are especially interesting in that regard.

In any case, I believe I have a hex map of Draenor lying around, if anybody's interested.

I always like to see more hex maps

[Big Mac]

This is a most interesting subject! I find Draenor to be a good world to include in Spelljammer, the orc and ogre cultures are especially interesting in that regard.

If I were to use World of Warcraft with Spelljammer, I would personally prefer to have an entire Warcraft crystal sphere (rather than to mix Warcraft and Spelljammer worlds together). And I would also want Warcraft themes to go right out to the sphere wall. I think something like that would need several celestial bodies to be added to Azeroth, and Draenor seems like it would be one of the easiest to build up, because there already seems to be a lot made for it.

I wouldn't want to reboot Draenor to fit it in with Spelljammer, but it seems like the native orcs and ogres would work very very well as groundlings that groups like the scro could contact. World of Warcraft already has space elements and if a few "unimportant" links were built into Draenor, I think it could work as a standard (non-Spelljammerised) campaign setting, but also be something that could contribute to a "Sphere of Warcraft". I'm not sure I'd actually be wanting to send out 1st level PCs on a rowboat to "club 20 scavvers to death", or visit an asteroid to mine rocks so that they could complete a minor quest, but I think it would be good to have the same sort of warcrafting theme as a background theme for the entire sphere. There should be things that people are trying to make and build on Draenor that are comparible to the sort of things the Alliance has been building on Azeroth.

In any case, I believe I have a hex map of Draenor lying around, if anybody's interested.

Yes please. I'd love to see it.

Did you just make a hex version of the existing map or add more detail onto the edges?

[Ivellius]

Not really "ecology of" type of descriptions, I wouldn't say. I did racial write-ups (compare with the races in, well, any of the books) for arakkoa and ethereals, who also received racial classes, and Monster Guide-type entries for several creatures: elekks, gronn, kaliri, nether rays, ravagers, rock flayers, sporelings, talbuks, and warp stalkers. The sporelings also get a short "Sporelings as PCs" section. Some other monsters have been on my "to-do" list forever and I just haven't gotten to them (additional demons, fungal giants, infernal machines, and spore bats, for the curious).

If it's anything you think would be helpful, let me know and I can post.

[Andrelvis]

I always like to see more hex maps

Yes please. I'd love to see it.

Did you just make a hex version of the existing map or add more detail onto the edges?

Oh, I wasn't the one who made it; it was made by someone called "Bas". The map is in Civilization V map format (which uses hexes for tiles). It looks quite nice, I think. And more importantly, since it is constructed of hexes, that makes it ideal for D&D game play:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1732902/Civili ... HexMap.png

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1732902/Civili ... thGrid.png

Unfortunately, I couldn't produce an image with higher resolution of the entire map; I'm looking into ways of doing that.

[Big Mac]

Not really "ecology of" type of descriptions, I wouldn't say. I did racial write-ups (compare with the races in, well, any of the books) for arakkoa and ethereals, who also received racial classes, and Monster Guide-type entries for several creatures: elekks, gronn, kaliri, nether rays, ravagers, rock flayers, sporelings, talbuks, and warp stalkers. The sporelings also get a short "Sporelings as PCs" section. Some other monsters have been on my "to-do" list forever and I just haven't gotten to them (additional demons, fungal giants, infernal machines, and spore bats, for the curious).

If it's anything you think would be helpful, let me know and I can post.

To be honest, I don't know Draenot enough to know what I would need, but all that stuff sounds like it would be useful to somebody.

I always like to see more hex maps

Yes please. I'd love to see it.

Did you just make a hex version of the existing map or add more detail onto the edges?

Oh, I wasn't the one who made it; it was made by someone called "Bas". The map is in Civilization V map format (which uses hexes for tiles). It looks quite nice, I think. And more importantly, since it is constructed of hexes, that makes it ideal for D&D game play:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1732902/Civili ... HexMap.png

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1732902/Civili ... thGrid.png

Unfortunately, I couldn't produce an image with higher resolution of the entire map; I'm looking into ways of doing that.

There is a user called Bas on Wowpedia. I wonder if this is the same person.

[Deckenpuppel]

Personally, I am not really that fond of the new races added to Draenor with the Burning Crusade, but telling more stories about the orcs and ogres would be nice.

A little nugget to start with could be the Blood River War: http://www.wowpedia.org/Blood_River_War

Its not much, but it is a starting point, and I always love to take something little Blizzard has carelessly thrown into our laps, and start making a proper story/scenario out of it.

[Big Mac]

Personally, I am not really that fond of the new races added to Draenor with the Burning Crusade, but telling more stories about the orcs and ogres would be nice.

Which races are the ones that Burning Crusade added to Draenor?

A little nugget to start with could be the Blood River War: http://www.wowpedia.org/Blood_River_War

Its not much, but it is a starting point, and I always love to take something little Blizzard has carelessly thrown into our laps, and start making a proper story/scenario out of it.

The name "Blood River War" could imply that there is a location called The Blood River on Draenor. Mind you, it could also imply that rivers of blood were spilled during the war.

We know that the Dark Scar clan was destroyed during the war. Would that be a faction that you would want to see brought back somehow? (Perhaps a connection between Draenor and another planet in the WoW solar system could allow some of the clan to migrate elsewhere before the war starts.)

If Kash'drakor was from the Frostwolf clan then bringing back the Dark Scar clan could make for a faction to work against the Frostwolf clan.

(The Frostwolf clan is also known as the Frost Wolf clan, so perhaps "Frost Wolf" could be the original name of the clan and the name could be contracted into "Frostwolf" in the modern day. Perhaps the other clan could have its name contracted down to "Darkscar clan" in the modern era.)

Serathil was used (by Kash'drakor) to destroy the Dark Scar clan, but perhaps the Dark Scar clan might have an item that could potentially counter Serathil.

Nothing else really stands out to me. What sort of inspiration were you thinking could be taken from this?

[Andrelvis]

The name "Blood River War" could imply that there is a location called The Blood River on Draenor. Mind you, it could also imply that rivers of blood were spilled during the war.

In the Serathil description in Warcraft III, the war is called the "Blood River war" (war being uncapitalized), which lends credence to your first hypothesis.

Since the war probably involved the Frostwolf clan, which was based in Nagrand, it is likely that the war took place somewhere in Nagrand as well. The "Blood River" could be the river which originates in Twilight Ridge and passes through both the Sunspring and Skysong lakes:

[Big Mac]

The name "Blood River War" could imply that there is a location called The Blood River on Draenor. Mind you, it could also imply that rivers of blood were spilled during the war.

In the Serathil description in Warcraft III, the war is called the "Blood River war" (war being uncapitalized), which lends credence to your first hypothesis.

Thanks.

Since the war probably involved the Frostwolf clan, which was based in Nagrand, it is likely that the war took place somewhere in Nagrand as well. The "Blood River" could be the river which originates in Twilight Ridge and passes through both the Sunspring and Skysong lakes:

I can't see the Skysong lake on that map. I must be going blind.

[Bonetti]

Something to keep an eye on: Warlords of Draenor.

BlizzCon is this coming week-end, Blizzard just registered "Warlords of Draenor" as a trademark, and they appear to have registered the domain. Here's hoping they're doing something with that material.

[Bonetti]

Warlords of Draenor is the next WoW expansion (just announced at BlizzCon). It looks like they're returning to pre-Outland Draenor (they showed a Shadowmoon Valley without all the felfire as one of the zones). You may want to keep an eye on what they're doing for that, since it looks like Draenor is about to have Pandaria-level development put into it.

[night_druid]

So...are they doing more time travel, or do they figure out a way to restore Draenor to a pre-destruction state?

[Bonetti]

Short form: Garrosh escapes during his trial (he was the end boss of Mists of Pandaria), and has an alliance with some sort of time manipulator. (My guess is that it's the evil version of Nozdormu, but we'll see.) His goal is to go back and "fix" the orcs so they're never corrupted by drinking Mannoroth's blood.

So, he's back in pre-Mannoroth Draenor (Ogre empire is on another continent, but in decline, orcs are coming into their power as a force for war, Draenei are presumably semi-hidden as they were written to be in Rise of the Horde). So, Garrosh comes in and brings his knowledge and pushes the Iron Horde into existence. Then, they turn around and invade Azeroth, except it's in our time.

I don't know how they're going to work out the timeline changes (parallel universe, changing history, etc.). They may or may not talk about it during BlizzCon. There's a Raids/Gameplay/Questing panel tomorrow, and a "WoW: The Adventure Continues" coming up in a few minutes. There will also be a general Q&A tomorrow. It may come up then, but that doesn't mean they'll answer. They've already shied away from discussing more detail once.

Draenor is a built-from-scratch continent, not a reskin, which leads me to think they'll leave Outland alone. I doubt they'll re-work Outland, because they've said that the Cataclysm re-work of all the old zones didn't yield the benefits they hoped it would.

[night_druid]

Eh, ok. Sounds...weird. Almost kinda wish they'd just find a new world or find a way to recreate a pre-destruction Draenor. Maybe find some old Titan device that forges a new Draenor.

[Bonetti]

I always expected them to use the Caverns of Time as a way to capture old/retired/recreated content and keep it in its favorite point, but they were pretty limited in their use of CoT.

Blizzard is talking about it a little in the "What's Next" panel. Their goal is not to focus on the time travel aspect (in fact they want to make it unimportant except for the result), but to instead give players a chance to play around in Draenor pre-Mannoroth with no impact on the present. (I guess they're going with alternate timelines.) So, you get to see Shattrath as a coastal city, and the Alliance capital is a pre-Illidan Karabor (now known as Black Temple), etc. The Arakkoa had wings and their own land. Players get to deal with the "classic" orc chieftains (Kilrogg, Kargath, Ner'zhul, Gul'dan, Durotan, Grommash, Blackhand) and Alliance heroes (Khadgar, Velen, Maraad), in a time before Draenor was despoiled.

I think I'm most excited about seeing a lot more about the Draenei, they've been poorly served since Burning Crusade. The Ogres get an empire (currently in decline), so that could be really interesting, too.

Update: They hit a Q&A. They really, really don't want to focus on the time travel bit, they want to focus on "You get to see Draenor before it goes all demon-infested". So, from a lore perspective, that's pretty cool.

[night_druid]

The garrison system looks interesting. If I read that right, effectively you get your own village to run. In a semi-instance way, which is good because of the housing problems Ultima Online had.