Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Old School Revival at its best?

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Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:06 pm

Hello everybody!

I would like to let you all know that I have been taking the time to unfold Dark Dungeons into Realm Works, the campaign management software by Lone Wolf Development.

At the moment, the following mechanical templates are ready: monsters, treasures, weapons, weapon abilities. I am now imputing the hard data into these templates, and it's going pretty fast. I plan to follow up with spells, items and artifacts as soon as I finish the first batch of data input.

I do not know if some of you are familiar with Realm Works, but if some of you own this software I will be happy to receive critiques and feedback on the project. I also hope to receive the blessing of Blacky the Blackball!

Regards,

pamanto
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby ErinRigh » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:39 am

I'd love to critique for you?
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:58 am

ErinRigh wrote:I'd love to critique for you?

Great! The template is basically done, as are the tags. As soon as I have entered enough data to make it worthy, I'll provide you with a copy of the file.
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby Blacky the Blackball » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:54 am

I've never heard of Realm Works, so I'm not really sure what it is that you're doing - but you have my blessing, whatever it is!
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:38 pm

Blacky the Blackball wrote:I've never heard of Realm Works, so I'm not really sure what it is that you're doing - but you have my blessing, whatever it is!

Hi!

Realm Works is a campaign managment software. It allows you to organize both the mechanical details of your system of choice and the content of any creative information you want to use in your game, such as adventure or setting for instance. Everything you input in the software can be linked, so it makes sense to create topics first and only later to input data. I can have all the stats of a goblin in one page, for example, and if he's using a sword I can click on it and the software will take to the reference page for the sword. The same can be easily done with spells, weapons abilities and so on.

In regards to creative content, if I want to play an adventure I can set up a map with pins on it and when the PCs explore that particular room, if I click on the pins it will take me to the description of such room. Of course the room itself will be hyperlinked to the monsters, traps, dangers, NPCs inside it.

It is a very useful tool that allows for very systematic planning (unless you have OCD disease, then you never get enough of it, because you can link everything with everything!).

It's developed by the same company that develops Hero Lab, and the two systems are integrated into each other's. All in all it is an effective replacement for PDFs, books, or folders at the table.

Very soon there will be an official content market for Realm Works, so users will be able to exchange files.

I think that Dark Dungeons can benefit from having the hardcore data programmed into Realm Works, as then everybody will be able to use this skeleton to create their own content.

A good series of video about Realm works can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... zs_qVSrzoM

Regards,

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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby ErinRigh » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:55 pm

Hey mate (hun? whatever) is there HL support for Dark Dungeons? if so, where do I get it?
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:55 pm

ErinRigh wrote:Hey mate (hun? whatever) is there HL support for Dark Dungeons? if so, where do I get it?

Hi!

Mate is ok. ;)

There is no Dark Dungeons support for Hero Lab, and I am not aware of any actual or even future development regarding this matter. To be honest with you, once I finish with Realm Works I will probably start with Hero Lab. Probably. Because the Hero Lab authoring kit requires actual programmer skills, which I do NOT possess. But I can work hard and acquire them: it's a worthy goal. Dark Dungeons is the edition of the game I love the most, the one I always go back to and the one I never get tired to tinker with.

That said, finishing with Realm Works will take me anything between one month to three months, depending on many factors. So: stay tuned!

Regards,

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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby ErinRigh » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:11 am

Alright mate, I'll keep an eye open
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby Big Mac » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:44 pm

pamanto wrote:Hello everybody!


Hello Pamanto! Welcome to The Piazza!

You might want to pop over to the Introduce yourself here topic, say hi to the community in general, and say a bit about yourself and the things you like.

pamanto wrote:I would like to let you all know that I have been taking the time to unfold Dark Dungeons into Realm Works, the campaign management software by Lone Wolf Development.


It's great that you are doing this. I don't use Realm Works myself, but I can see how this would be helpful to a great number of people.

pamanto wrote:At the moment, the following mechanical templates are ready: monsters, treasures, weapons, weapon abilities. I am now imputing the hard data into these templates, and it's going pretty fast. I plan to follow up with spells, items and artifacts as soon as I finish the first batch of data input.

I do not know if some of you are familiar with Realm Works, but if some of you own this software I will be happy to receive critiques and feedback on the project.


I'm not too familiar with this sort of software, but I have been talking to Anna Meyer, who has been working with a bunch of people who have been importing Greyhawk information into HeroLab.

From the conversations they have been having, you must have been working on this for weeks. (And if you are going to be sharing this, that is weeks of work that you are saving every other Dark Dungeons fan that uses Realm Works. :cool: )

pamanto wrote:I also hope to receive the blessing of Blacky the Blackball!

Regards,

pamanto


Blacky the Blackball is a really cool guy. :)
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:15 pm

Hi Big Mac!

thanks for the kind and encouraging words.

Yes, I have been working on this project for some weeks, but I waited before announcing it because i wanted to be sure I could pull this off. Realm Works has a much friendlier user interface than the Hero Lab authoring kit, so the learning curve wasn't that steep. :) Still, once this Realm Works project is complete, I would really like to tackle Hero Lab and create a Dark Dungeon system for it. I will need to learn some basic programming skills before doing this, though.

During the creations of Realm Works templates I was extremely careful to leave room for final users expansions, I did not lock tables for mere reference, or simply import a picture. As an example, Table 19-3b: Jewellery Form has only one item listed per category, but with my template it's easy to add more if one wishes.

I feel this kind of project suits me, as I am not a native english speaker and therefore content creation can never be flawless. But working with mechanics and templates allows me to circumvent this problem.

I will be sharing all of this, of course! Whoever wants will be able to access the file and tinker with it. I estimate the project will be finished anywhere between 1 month to 3 months, depending on the hours a day I can squeeze into working on it.

Regards,

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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby Big Mac » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:16 pm

Blacky the Blackball wrote:I've never heard of Realm Works, so I'm not really sure what it is that you're doing - but you have my blessing, whatever it is!


Here is an overview of Realmworks.

I'm not exactly sure how it works, but it could help people play Dark Dungeons online.

The producers of Realm Works have been talking about selling online versions of RPG books. Perhaps they would be willing to "sell" Dark Dungeons or some of your other RPG books at whatever price fits in with your ethos.

They also make something else called HeroLab. Again, I'm not exactly sure how it works, but it's good for people doing online gaming. That seems to be much more of a semi-automated tool for GMs and it definitely has versions keyed to various RPG rules systems including:
  • Pathfinder,
  • Shadowrun,
  • Mutants & Masterminds,
  • Savage Worlds,
  • 3.5/OGL,
  • Call of Cthuluhu,
  • World of Darkness and
  • 4e

I'm not sure that HeroLab has any significant Old School Revival support, so getting Dark Dungeons up there could really help a lot of fans of old rules who want to use modern tools. Twin online support for Dark Dungeons with something like PDFs from DMs Guild, and somone could probably get an online game going a lot easier.

I'm not suggesting that you switch from doing the sort of things you are already doing to Realm Works/HeroLab, but it would be great if you could cut a deal with them.
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:31 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Blacky the Blackball wrote:I've never heard of Realm Works, so I'm not really sure what it is that you're doing - but you have my blessing, whatever it is!


Here is an overview of Realmworks.

I'm not exactly sure how it works, but it could help people play Dark Dungeons online.

The producers of Realm Works have been talking about selling online versions of RPG books. Perhaps they would be willing to "sell" Dark Dungeons or some of your other RPG books at whatever price fits in with your ethos.

They also make something else called HeroLab. Again, I'm not exactly sure how it works, but it's good for people doing online gaming. That seems to be much more of a semi-automated tool for GMs and it definitely has versions keyed to various RPG rules systems including:
  • Pathfinder,
  • Shadowrun,
  • Mutants & Masterminds,
  • Savage Worlds,
  • 3.5/OGL,
  • Call of Cthuluhu,
  • World of Darkness and
  • 4e

I'm not sure that HeroLab has any significant Old School Revival support, so getting Dark Dungeons up there could really help a lot of fans of old rules who want to use modern tools. Twin online support for Dark Dungeons with something like PDFs from DMs Guild, and somone could probably get an online game going a lot easier.

I'm not suggesting that you switch from doing the sort of things you are already doing to Realm Works/HeroLab, but it would be great if you could cut a deal with them.


Yes, this is the gist of it.

I would also like to add that a big part of Realm Works and Hero Lab is not for online gaming, but for tabletop gaming. For example Realm Works has what they call "Fog of World". You can connect your laptop to a second monitor, and display only what you want to the players. If they are exploring a map, you can clear what they see as they go. I usually connect my laptop to my TV and it works wonders. I also use it to display pics, props, etc.

As far as I know, there is at the moment no Old School Revival support for Realm Works or for Hero Lab.

The thing is, at the moment it seems that these two softwares are the leading standard of the industry, and once the content market takes off (probably next month) it will likely render the PDFs basically obsolete. Because with Realm Works you can link everything with everything, and you can choose what to display to players, so it's so much easier to handle than a PDF.

With Hero Lab, character creation is automated and fast. But the best thing is that it also automates combat. rolling initiatives for monsters and PCs, displaying them in order and referencing their tactics, abilities and weapons. You can keep track of how many spells you have cast, what they do, etc. You can also add effects on the PCs or monsters, and the software recalculates everything automatically. For example, if I had the effect "blessing" to the party, it automatically tells me that their attack bonus is not +2 anymore but +3. And it is flexible: I can easily override what the software has rolled, if for example my PCs like to roll initiative by themselves.

Regards,

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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby Big Mac » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:19 pm

pamanto wrote:Hi Big Mac!

thanks for the kind and encouraging words.


You're welcome.

I'm primarily a Spelljammer fan, and used to think I was the only Spelljammer fan in my part of the world. Then I came online and eventually thought to ask if there were any Spelljammer fans on the Internet and slowly discovered a lot of cool stuff. Cool stuff created by people with the same sort of helpful spirit that you have. (And I also found a lot of other Spelljammer fans that didn't know that anyone else was out there, and tried to help them find each other.)

I know quite a lot of Spelljammer fans (online now) but I remember what it was like when I thought I was on my own and I remember seeing the power of bringing different fans together (and multiplying their efforts). So, although I'm not exactly sure how Realm Works and HeroLab work, I can imagine that you could be really helping to move things forward for Dark Dungeons fans!

pamanto wrote:Yes, I have been working on this project for some weeks, but I waited before announcing it because i wanted to be sure I could pull this off. Realm Works has a much friendlier user interface than the Hero Lab authoring kit, so the learning curve wasn't that steep. :) Still, once this Realm Works project is complete, I would really like to tackle Hero Lab and create a Dark Dungeon system for it. I will need to learn some basic programming skills before doing this, though.


What sort of stuff do you need to learn for HeroLab? Does it use a markup language, like XML, or something more like computer code?

I'll see if I can get anyone from Anna Meyer's Greyhawk in HeroLab group to pop over and give you some advice.

(I might learn Relam Works and HeroLab at some point, but that would only be as a way to get a 3rd Edition D&D game for Spelljammer going. My main concern is that there seems to be a "buy in" involved. While I recognise that companies need to make money to support tools like this, I'm a bit worried that I'd be shutting out poor gamers who might want to play with me. One of the things I really like about what Blacky the Blackball has done with Dark Dungeons, is that making it free has turned it into a game that gamers in financial trouble can still afford to use.)

pamanto wrote:During the creations of Realm Works templates I was extremely careful to leave room for final users expansions, I did not lock tables for mere reference, or simply import a picture. As an example, Table 19-3b: Jewellery Form has only one item listed per category, but with my template it's easy to add more if one wishes.


That does sound really thoughtful. I remember someone asking Blacky about using poison arrows/darts recently. I'm guessing that your system would give them the option to write in the extra weapons underneath the standard ones. Boom! Done! :D

pamanto wrote:I feel this kind of project suits me, as I am not a native english speaker and therefore content creation can never be flawless. But working with mechanics and templates allows me to circumvent this problem.


You have great English. I wish I was as good at a second language as you are with English.

My Finnish is restricted to one word, taught to me by two Finnish people I worked with - Kiitos! (And I only remembered it by taking my keys out of my pocket and throwing them up in the air! :lol: )

We have quite a lot of people who speak English as a second language here. (There is a big Italian community for Mystara and they make some awesome stuff. And a few of them are kind enough to help English people turn that into English to help the English-speaking fans.)

Another fan with English as a second language, called Zeromaru X, has done some awesome research into Nentir Vale and 4th Edition and teamed up with a native English speaker to get any bugs ironed out of his work. To be honest, I forget that he has English as a second language, but I can see how it would be good to have a buddy that you can ask to help you with words. I know Erin, from the Wildspace fanzine team and he is a great guy. :)

So if you have other stuff you want to do, beyond this stuff that is already great, I think you should give it a shot, once you are done with these two projects and look for someone who can help you find bugs and fix them.

(Or here is a radical idea, maybe you could translate Dark Dungeons into Finnish, and open the system up to roleplayers there who don't speak any English. :D )

But if you do like the online tools, and you decide to work with them instead, you could probably help just as many fans doing that. So if you get good with the online tools and like, you might want to explore more.

There is a dude online, called Mad Irishman, who spent years building interactive character sheets for a zillion different RPG systems. His 3rd Edition D&D character sheet is the one I like.

pamanto wrote:I will be sharing all of this, of course! Whoever wants will be able to access the file and tinker with it. I estimate the project will be finished anywhere between 1 month to 3 months, depending on the hours a day I can squeeze into working on it.

Regards,

pamanto


Good luck with this. :mrgreen:
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:36 pm

Hi!

As far as i can gather, HeroLab subscribes to the XML standard, of which I know nothing about. I will look better into it once the Realm Works project is done!

Yes, these softwares are not free and they can actually be quite costy. I think the entry fee for HeroLab is some 25$ and for Realm Works is 50$. Then, data package will need to be bought.

I am originally italian, and I've been living in Finland for about 5 years.

In Italy we are very sensitive about Mystara! We had amazing BECMI boxes, almost everybody started to play the game with that edition. And Mystara was an important part of it.

Talk to you soon!

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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby Big Mac » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:24 pm

Hero Lab does sound useful for those who have it.

I didn't realise you were a stealth Italian! ;-)

It's nice to meet you, wherever you are from.

XML is similar to HTML (in structure) so if you find anyone to help you, who knows HTML, they will learn XML faster.
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby ErinRigh » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:27 pm

Hey Big Mac, I have been working on a project that I call Goblins of the Empire, fleshing out Goblins and Hobgoblins in the Scro Empire, I am doing it for all Hero Lab, Realm Works, and PDF, it includes 4 goblin races, 4 hobgoblin races, 3 worgs, A Core Class, a number of Prestige classes, a few new weapons, over 100 new spells, and more (random generation tables and the like).

It is being done for 3.5 e but I would eventually like to see it ported into other systems
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby Big Mac » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:43 pm

ErinRigh wrote:Hey Big Mac, I have been working on a project that I call Goblins of the Empire, fleshing out Goblins and Hobgoblins in the Scro Empire, I am doing it for all Hero Lab, Realm Works, and PDF, it includes 4 goblin races, 4 hobgoblin races, 3 worgs, A Core Class, a number of Prestige classes, a few new weapons, over 100 new spells, and more (random generation tables and the like).

It is being done for 3.5 e but I would eventually like to see it ported into other systems


That sounds great Erin. Maybe we should write about Goblins of the Empire in the Spelljammer forum (at some point), unless you would prefer to let Wildspace have an article about this first.
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:03 pm

Hello everybody.

A quick update on the project. The last Realm Works software update has created a lot of issues with my work, basically rendering useless all of my custom templates. I am trying to find a workaround to this, but I am not sure one exists. Therefore, I might have to start all over again ;(

The issues seems to be with duplicate topics, which are not anymore allowed. So, for example, if I am creating a template for a weapon I cannot use the term "Ability" more than once. Now, every weapon has four abilities at the most, which I termed Ability1, Ability2, Ability3 and Ability4. I therefore proceeded to use these labels for every one of the six ranks (Non-skilled, basic, skilled, expert, master, grand-master). Therefore each of the term is repeated 6 times. Actually 12 times, as damage is different vs armored opponents and unarmored opponents.

This was totally unexpected. I'll keep you updated.

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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby Big Mac » Sat May 13, 2017 1:35 am

Have you found a workaround for the problem yet Pamanto?
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Sat May 13, 2017 1:57 am

Big Mac wrote:Have you found a workaround for the problem yet Pamanto?


Hi Big Mac!

There is no workaround. I have to to start all over again.

I have to admit, I am really frustrated. While I do understand the reasons of the developers, all of my work has been rendered null. I had put something like 150+ hours already into the project.

I am actually waiting until all of this "content market" update thing is done with, before starting again.

For whoever is interested, here is the link to their forum where I stated my problem

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=58117

Regards,

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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby Big Mac » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:27 am

pamanto wrote:I am actually waiting until all of this "content market" update thing is done with, before starting again.


Have you got any news on how they are doing with their "content market" changes? Are you still having to wait?

Is there any way you could use some sort of "find and replace" technique to help remove any of the duplicate names? I couldn't work out exactly what was going wrong from the topic you pointed me at (or the second topic that someone linked to).
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Re: Dark Dungeons in Realm Works

Postby pamanto » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:26 am

Hi Big Mac!

No, I have no news about that. But the content market is so near we can almost smell it! After being burnt by the updated I talked about before, I am waiting until the system is more stabile. It shouldn't take much longer anymore.

I cannot use a "find and replace" technique, because the duplicates are build into the template itself. So I have to rework the templates from ground zero!

But this is a monster I am going to tame, trust me. Dark Dungeon for Realm Works WILL happen. It's a project I have been spending already too many hours to let go. And I'm quite happy about the results, this duplicate problems aside.

So stay tuned!

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