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Possible errata?

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:01 pm
by Artikid
Hi, I've noticed a few things I'm not sure about:


Limited access to wands and staves:
I'm quite sure that Becmi allowed elves to use wands and staffs like Magic-users do. The restrictions might be an error, a result of the jumbled mess known as the RC. (edit: checked this out, both BX and Becmi allow elves to use staffs and wands marked as (m), or magic-user only)

Thieves:
Didn't the source material give them access to all weapons? (checked out, no this isn't the case in Becmi. BX gave them access to all weapons, though)
Finally a piece that is not really errata: lots of people seem to think that the thief is too weak, and even bad at his own class skills. This fact is usually imputed to Becmi changing the progression and improvement from levels 1-14 (like it was in BX) to 1-36. Is there a chance that a 3rd printing will use the BX table for thief skills?

Thanks

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:21 am
by Artikid
After a few days more of browsing the book I found more potential Errata.
  • Adamants, Angels and Demons are both listed as Exalted, yet Demons and Adamants save as Immortals and Angels save as Mortals.
    Shouldn't Angels save as Immortals too?
  • Elemental Rulers (40 HD Elementals) are listed as Exalted, but no specific ST table is given... maybe Immortal saves should be listed here as well?
  • Another thing that might potentially be Errata is that no Carrying capacity is given for monsters that could end up as mounts for high level PCs, like Griffon or Manticore.
I think I may have more after a careful read through, but it may take a couple of weeks at least.

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:57 pm
by Artikid
In addition Angels are missing a Power Reserve.

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:39 pm
by Artikid
No Sorceror nor Shaman level caps are given for centaurs, djinns, dryads, doppelganger, efreeti, lizardmen, nuckalave, orcs, sasquatch,, sprites, troglodytes, trolls and vampires.

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:52 pm
by Artikid
This would actually be addenda rather than errata: write wrestling rules that do not imitate BECMI's. Model them instead on the way nets work in the weapon feats chapter.

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:38 am
by Peter
Thank you for the errata. I am pretty sure Blacky moved on to 5th Edition, but I will incorporate it into my unfinished deluxe version.
Finally a piece that is not really errata: lots of people seem to think that the thief is too weak, and even bad at his own class skills. This fact is usually imputed to Becmi changing the progression and improvement from levels 1-14 (like it was in BX) to 1-36. Is there a chance that a 3rd printing will use the BX table for thief skills?
This is already done in my version. I plan to replace the class with a rewrite of Frank Mentzer's Thief rewrite.
Adamants, Angels and Demons are both listed as Exalted, yet Demons and Adamants save as Immortals and Angels save as Mortals.
Shouldn't Angels save as Immortals too?
The Angel is the Archon from the RC, which list it's save as C20.
Elemental Rulers (40 HD Elementals) are listed as Exalted, but no specific ST table is given... maybe Immortal saves should be listed here as well?
I assume they have the same saves as regular elementals, as the RC says "These slow, huge creatures are identical to
normal elementals, but far larger." Although it would make sense that they have different saves.

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:21 pm
by Artikid
Hi,
I hope Blacky hasn't completely abandoned the game, at least as far as errata correction goes.
I don't even know if he'd agree to all I posted as being "errata" but I feel compelled to make these posts anyway.

Yes I know that Angels are taken from the Archos in the original game.
But I think that they need to be corrected and be treated like practically all existing Exalted creatures in the game.

Elemental rulers in the RC save as 36th level fighters, way better than normal Elementals.
But. In the RC they are not Exalted creatures, while they are in Dark Dungeons.
Just like Angels, it would be nice if they fit in what seems to be the general mold for Exalted beings. At the moment they have no ST listing at all.

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:31 pm
by Blacky the Blackball
As I'm working through the new edition, I thought I'd go through some of these and respond to them with how I am (or am not) addressing them...
Artikid wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:01 pm
Limited access to wands and staves:
I'm quite sure that Becmi allowed elves to use wands and staffs like Magic-users do. The restrictions might be an error, a result of the jumbled mess known as the RC. (edit: checked this out, both BX and Becmi allow elves to use staffs and wands marked as (m), or magic-user only)
Yep, that's an error that I'll be correcting. Both elves and magic-users (and mountebanks) should be able to use staffs and wands marked as (m).
Thieves:
Didn't the source material give them access to all weapons? (checked out, no this isn't the case in Becmi. BX gave them access to all weapons, though)
Finally a piece that is not really errata: lots of people seem to think that the thief is too weak, and even bad at his own class skills. This fact is usually imputed to Becmi changing the progression and improvement from levels 1-14 (like it was in BX) to 1-36. Is there a chance that a 3rd printing will use the BX table for thief skills?
I've not done this, because I prefer the more gradual increase in skills rather than a steep one for the first few levels and then it tailing off because there's nowhere for it to go after that. Don't forget that level 14 is less than half way through the progression and if they peak that early then small increments after that point seem irrelevant.

What I will do, though, is put in a "Developer Commentary" box in the Dungeon Delving chapter mentioning that thieves have only low chances of success at low levels so the DM shouldn't be afraid to put in sub-standard or crude traps and locks that give a bonus to handling them in order to give low level thieves a chance to shine.
Artikid wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:21 am
Adamants, Angels and Demons are both listed as Exalted, yet Demons and Adamants save as Immortals and Angels save as Mortals.

Shouldn't Angels save as Immortals too?
Artikid wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:57 pm
In addition Angels are missing a Power Reserve.
That's because Adamants and Demons are immune to mortal magic, while Angels aren't. The reason for that is because Angels were taken from the Rules Cyclopedia and Adamants and Demons were taken from Wrath of the Immortals.

I'm going to need to clean up the whole issue of Exalted creatures when I clean up the Immortals rules, so one way or another things will be more consistent in the new edition.
Elemental Rulers (40 HD Elementals) are listed as Exalted, but no specific ST table is given... maybe Immortal saves should be listed here as well?
Similarly, I'll deal with this when I clean up the Immortals rules.
Another thing that might potentially be Errata is that no Carrying capacity is given for monsters that could end up as mounts for high level PCs, like Griffon or Manticore.
I might simply go right ahead and include them in the equipment chapter as mounts, although that's a slippery slope since there are always more obscure mounts (pegasi, unicorns, dragons, flail snails...)
Artikid wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:39 pm
No Sorceror nor Shaman level caps are given for centaurs, djinns, dryads, doppelganger, efreeti, lizardmen, nuckalave, orcs, sasquatch,, sprites, troglodytes, trolls and vampires.
I'll fix that when I get to the monster chapter.
Artikid wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:52 pm
This would actually be addenda rather than errata: write wrestling rules that do not imitate BECMI's. Model them instead on the way nets work in the weapon feats chapter.
I've already done that, although I modeled them on the Bolas rather than the Net - since I figured that the Bolas' strangulation rules were a reasonable thing to use for choke-holds.

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:53 am
by Artikid
Thanks for the clarifications. One thing I didn't understand, is Dark Dungeons still going to be published in its current form?

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:18 pm
by Blacky the Blackball
I'm going to stick the 10th edition version up on DriveThruRPG, but I won't take the old version down. That will still be available.

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:25 pm
by Artikid
Blacky the Blackball wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:18 pm
I'm going to stick the 10th edition version up on DriveThruRPG, but I won't take the old version down. That will still be available.
Cool! I guess it won't include this errata, though?

Re: Possible errata?

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:56 pm
by Blacky the Blackball
Unfortunately not, since that would require not only a lot of work to update the files (which aren't the same as the files for the new edition that I'm currently editing), but then also work and expense on my part to turn those files into an updated book.

From a cost point of view, it's actually much cheaper for me to publish a separate 10th anniversary edition than it is to republish an errata-ed version of the old edition.