[Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Old School Revival at its best?

Moderator: Blacky the Blackball

Post Reply
User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

[Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:57 pm

Darkest Dungeons has 20 classes in it. That's quite a few, but they often don't seem very distinct form each other. Here's what we have at the moment:

Adventurer - Kind of a Jack-Of-All-Trades, who can dabble in a bit of magic; fight reasonably well; and is okay with miscellaneous skills.
Artificer - A type of mage whose spells are all about making magic items. Making magic items takes weeks or even months, so they aren't actually that great in an adventuring party - they're more of an NPC class.
Ascetic - A martial artist who doesn't use magic.
Conjurer - A type of mage whose spells are all about creating stuff. Much of it is creating sensations/illusions but they can use force fields to give the stuff they create physicality.
Elementalist - A type of mage whose spells are all about the elements (air, earth, fire, frost, light, water). They tend to have unsubtle combat spells.
Empath - A type of psychic who can heal others and make (and grant the user control of) artificial limbs.
Explorer - A partial divine caster who has nature-based spells and good combat abilities.
Lifemaster - A type of priest whose spells all revolve around life. They have anti-undead spells, monster summoning spells, golem/elemental creation spells, raise dead and protective spells.
Penitent - A type of priest whose spells allow them to absorb the wounds of others and then heal themselves.
Ravager - A combination priest/mage whose spells revolve around destruction (physical, mental and of inanimate objects).
Rhymer - A partial arcane caster whose spells are for identifying items, singing mind-controlling songs, and having linguistic skills.
Scoundrel - A non-spell caster whose skills concentrate on stealth and/or subterfuge.
Shadowmancer - A combination priest/psychic whose spells are mostly to create and control undead, but who get some darkness and decay spells too.
Telepath - A type of psychic whose spells are mostly directed to one-to-one mental contact and attacks.
Transcendental - A partial psionic caster who is a martial artist whose spells enhance their acrobatic abilities.
Visionary - A type of psychic whose spells involve precognition, postcognition, clairvoyance, true sight and mind reading.
Warlock - A combination mage/psychic whose spells are based around polymorphing themselves, stealth, and chaos.
Warrior - A non-spell caster who is your typical heavily armoured fighter.
Witch - A type of priest who concentrates on nature based magic, transforming to animals, and having an animal companion.
Wizard - A versatile spell caster who has no speciality spells of their own but can use divine, arcane and psionic spells.

So, who has suggestions for these classes - not for their mechanics, they're fixed; but for names, fluff, organisations, etc.

The thoughts I've been having in terms of names are:

1) I deliberately avoided any name that Rolemaster uses (even generic ones like "Fighter", "Theif" and so on). I now think this was a mistake and I could use some SRD names that Rolemaster initially pinched from D&D in the first place.

2) Based on the above, I think the "Rhymer" would be better named as a "Bard". It's basically the same as a D&D Bard and I only avoided that name because it's the name that Rolemaster used.

3) Similarly, I think the "Explorer" would be better named as a "Scout" or "Ranger". The Rolemaster original is "Ranger", so I'll probably go for "Scout".

4) I really dislike the "Lifemaster" name, but I am struggling to come up with an alternate name for a priest who specialises in life magic. "Heirophant" maybe?

5) I also dislike the "Shadowmancer" name. Again, I'm struggling to come up with an alternative. "Thanaturge"? "Necromancer"? The latter seems ideal but it's also the name that Rolemaster uses...

But names aside, the big thing is the fluff for the classes. Take the five types of priest for example (Lifemaster, Shadowmancer, Warlock, Witch, Penitent) - are they different religions? Different types of religious person from the same religion? Or what?

Same with the mages and the psychics. How are they organised? Master/Apprentice? Self taught? Colleges of Wizardry? Or what?

Anyone got any cool suggestions for any of the classes?
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

smarttman
Hobgoblin
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:48 pm
Gender: male

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by smarttman » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:07 pm

For Lifemaster, I'd probably change the name to something like Exalt, because they exalt in life.
For Shadowmancer, you could call them a Scourge, because they scourge life (I'm so clever)

As for the religious ones, I'd generally make those up to the setting. Some people may want distinct pantheons, others may want a single one. I think the base idea would be Lifemaster = Law gods, Shadowmancer = Chaos gods, Witch = Nature gods, Penitent = Sacrificial gods, Ravager = Exploitative gods. So, many are two sides of the same coin.

I always liked the idea of 'schools' for magic and psionics. By which I mean literal colleges and universities that teach magic and psionics. In a world so full of arcane energy, there is no reason to keep these abilities secret from the general populace.

However, I'd structure magic schools like universities, and psychic schools more like military schools.

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:36 pm

WRT names: I think that havig thief instead of scundrel and druid instead of witch would probably just bring some clarification.
I think that Necromancer is widely used in so many fantasy games and literature that you shouldn't be shy tobe in that number.
Other possibilities that I can see are: adventurer-polymath, explorer-scout, rymer-bard... and... uhm.... I think there should be some room for a thaumaturge... maybe instead of the empath?

On top of this, I think you should put some limit to the alignment of the characters that chose some of that classes, for example necromancer (or shadowmancer), druid (or whitch), ravager, lifemaster etc etc. (probably all that have clerical magic abilities) should have a very clear alignment indication.

WRT organizations, I'd follow D&D indications, with teachers/masters and congregations until you reach a certain level, and then you mostly have to keep going by yourself, with very few guidance.
The "guilds" system of D&D sounds very middle-age and similar to Italian-reinassance "arts" system... in general I like it.
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:45 pm

I don' like too much ravager and lifemaster, but at the moment I don't have great alternatives... the only half-decent one I can think in demonologist for ravager (not perfect, but gves some fair idea), but angelologist for lifemaster (that is the conceptual opposite) doesn't sound right to me... at all... another alternative that is conceptually opposite to demonologist is exorcist, that sounds definitely better, but it's not exactly what the lifemaster does.
maybe jus back priest (or black cleric) and white priest (or white cleric)...
I'm afraid that too complicate classes naming could put off some potential player before they even start their first game, so simpler and "well known" class names could help...
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:48 pm

and why not caling the ascetic as martial artist? wuld this clarify the role?
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:54 pm

smarttman wrote:For Lifemaster, I'd probably change the name to something like Exalt, because they exalt in life.
For Shadowmancer, you could call them a Scourge, because they scourge life (I'm so clever)
I love the "Scourge" name, but I think it suits the Ravager more than the Shadowmancer. The Ravager is more destruction oriented, and I like the idea of them being in charge of divine punishments - the "Scourge Of God".
As for the religious ones, I'd generally make those up to the setting. Some people may want distinct pantheons, others may want a single one. I think the base idea would be Lifemaster = Law gods, Shadowmancer = Chaos gods, Witch = Nature gods, Penitent = Sacrificial gods, Ravager = Exploitative gods. So, many are two sides of the same coin.
I'm hoping to have some default setting material, although I like the idea of different divine casters being different types of person within the same polytheistic church (more like historical polytheism) rather than the cleric-of-a-particular-god way that D&ED does it.

Combined with the "Scourge" idea, that could give us a main church with something like:

Lifemaster = Priest (the most common type, who mostly looks after the temples but some may want to adventure)
Penitent = Martyr (who are mostly travellers doing good where they can and healing people)
Ravager = Scourge (who go out to punish wrongdoers)

And then some independents:

Witch = Witch (worships nature rather than the gods, and fulfils the "old religion" niche that druids fill in D&D - they would be tolerated but not trusted by the church)
Explorer = Scout? (a nature worshipper alongside the witch, but who is much more combat oriented)

But where does the Shadowmancer fit into this split?
I always liked the idea of 'schools' for magic and psionics. By which I mean literal colleges and universities that teach magic and psionics. In a world so full of arcane energy, there is no reason to keep these abilities secret from the general populace.

However, I'd structure magic schools like universities, and psychic schools more like military schools.
I think I definitely like the idea of magic universities, but the psionic types don't strike me as being particularly military in nature with the exception of the Transcendental.

Perhapse the Ascetics and Transcendentals should be taught in martial arts schools which are more philosophical than military (but would obviously fight if needed), and the other psionic classes could use the more traditional master/apprentice system (for players who want a spell caster who isn't obligated to be part of an organisation).
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:07 pm

Yaztromo wrote:WRT names: I think that havig thief instead of scundrel and druid instead of witch would probably just bring some clarification.
I think that Necromancer is widely used in so many fantasy games and literature that you shouldn't be shy tobe in that number.
Other possibilities that I can see are: adventurer-polymath, explorer-scout, rymer-bard... and... uhm.... I think there should be some room for a thaumaturge... maybe instead of the empath?
I'm pretty frm on the idea of Scout instead of Explorer and Bard instead of Rhymer.

You're probably right about Necromancer. It's a suitably generic name. However, if I want them to be part of the organised church that name isn't that suitable. Your "Thaumaturge" idea made me think of the related "Theurge" - which is someone who calls on spirits. That could work really well for the Shadowmancer class.

So the question is, does the Shadowmancer become:

a) The Necromancer, who is outside of the church. This would give them a nice feel, but I wouldn't want it to go so far as being enemies of the chuch since I want them and the undead they make to be at least vaguely acceptable in society rather than an excuse to call in the inquisition.

b) The Theurge, who is in the church and deals with funerary rites and such.

I'm leaning towards the former, because I like the idea of them being only borderline acceptable. I'll have to try to find a place in society for them that has people not approve of them but be willing to tolerate them...
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:42 pm

Okay, so to sum up; this is what we have currently:
  • There is a single Church, which may have its share of schisms and heretics of course, that worships all the gods (except those whose worship is forbidden). That church is mostly city based and includes in it:
    • Priests - The ones who mostly stay at churches and perform ceremonies (although adventurers who have trained as priests aren't unknown). They specialise in life magic including making golems and raising the dead.
    • Martyrs - Travelling holy people who absorb the wounds of others onto themselves. They are honoured within the church.
    • Scourges - Inquisitors, judges and punishers who seek out enemies of the church (as these guys also use arcane magic, they are taught by visiting professors from the magical colleges).
  • The Church also sponsors a number of Knightly orders, and these teach the skills of fighting in heavy armour. Although not all who are taught go on to become knights (indeed, many reject the knightly honour system completely), being taught by the knightly orders produces skilled warriors who can pick up almost any weapon and use almost any armour:
    • Warriors - People who have trained with one of the many military academies, mercenary companies, or knightly orders. They're trained at fighting in heavy armour and with a wide variety of weapons.
  • There are nature worshippers, who are tolerated by the church but not part of it. These are mostly rural, where the church holds less influence. Their organisation is mostly a mistress/apprentice one:
    • Witches - Who mostly live in villages and help with farming, healing animals and blessing crops and so forth (there can be male witches).
    • Scouts - Who are wilderness warriors that protect villages.
  • There are ???? worshippers who can create undead. These are disliked by the Church, but the scourges won't act against them (e.g. destroying sapient undead created by them) unless they specifically break the law. Merely being a Necromancer isn't enough to be inquisited. These are organised in ???? manner.
    • Necromancers - They contact people's dead relatives and create undead. They also have some darkness and decay related spells (which don't exactly help their reputation).
  • The College Of Sorcery/University Of Arcane Arts teach arcane magic. There are branches in most cities, and the two establishments compete for students and prestige but are mostly on friendly terms. They take in students and test their personalities and aptitudes, splitting them up and then teaching them on the course that they are best suited for. Both teach the same courses, based on the way magic is naturally split. Students may leave after their basic training or may remain in academia for their whole lives. Classes taught by them result in:
    • Elementalists - Mages who work the elements.
    • Warlocks - Mages who specialise in alteration magic (I might change these from Arcane/Psionic to purely Arcane).
    • Artificers - Mages who specialise in the making of magical items.
    • Conjurers - Mages who specialise in conjuring sensory images and fake items made from force fields (I might change these from purely Arcane to Arcane/Psionic - they're a better fit for that than Warlocks).
  • Additionally, there is a loose network of Bards that travel around from place to place teaching their brand of arcane magic to those who show talent but aren't inclined to go and do formal academic study:
    • Bards - Travellers with weak magic that is mainly focussed on language, song and sound.
  • Dojos teach martial arts and philosophy. There are many competing dojos each of which teaches their own style of martial arts. There is intense rivalry between them about which style of martial arts is the best. They teach:
    • Martial Artists - The name says it all, really. They're warriors who specialise in martial arts.
    • Transcendentals - Martial artists who supplement their combat skills with psionic magic that allows them to perform acrobatic feats.
  • There is the Psychic's Guild, which doesn't teach students lke the magical universities do - these classes are taught in a simple master/apprentice system; but which psychics can join. The guild protects psychics in exchange for psychics obeying their code of conduct. A psychic wearing the guild symbol is generally trusted and many won't hire a non-guild psychic (but being a non-guild psychic isn't actually illegal - just suspicious). The guild is open to three traditions of psychic:
    • Telepaths - Who are powerful in mind-to-mind combat and interrogation, and who often work with both secular judges and Scourges.
    • Empaths - Who use their psionic abilities to heal.
    • Visionaries - Whose mental talents allow them to see into the future and past.
  • The Guild Of Bodyguards And Bounty Hunters is found in many cities and claims to teach the skills needed for a good bodyguard or bounty hunter - the ability to disarm and avoid traps, the ability to pick locks, and the ability to strike people unawares in careful ways to disable them while avoiding accidentally killing them. Of course, the tricks and techniques it teaches are easily misused, and the guild is openly referred to as "The Assassin's Guild" by almost everyone. It only manages to stay open because the legitimate uses of the skills it teaches are technically legal and because its former students make great spies and agents for the very people who would otherwise close it down.
    • Assassins - Sneaky rogues who can kill easily if they catch someone unawares.
  • The Order Of Wizards is prestigous and exclusive, and only accepts those who can master all three schools of magic. Their members are natual savants who are normally self-taught. They claim that being formally taught in any one school of magic is artificially restricting and suppresses whatever talent one may have in the other schools.
    • Wizards - A rare breed with a natural talent for all three types of magic, Wizards are taught by other wizards. They have no real organisation and tend to be very independent.
  • Finally, of course, there are simply people who want to be adventurers but who haven't had formal training in any specialisation:
    • Adventurers - Non-specialised normal people who seek an adventuring life.
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

smarttman
Hobgoblin
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:48 pm
Gender: male

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by smarttman » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:10 pm

The Necromancers could possibly be used as 'outcast' mages. Maybe mages whose ideas were too radical for a college, and they were kicked out and told to go elsewhere.

User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:25 am

smarttman wrote:The Necromancers could possibly be used as 'outcast' mages. Maybe mages whose ideas were too radical for a college, and they were kicked out and told to go elsewhere.
Possibly - but they're as "un-magey" as you can get, using a combination of Divine and Psionic magic.

If I wanted them to do that, I'd have to swap their magic types with the Scourge, so the Scourge becomes a Divine/Psionic caster (which, to be honest, suits an inquisitorial type) and the Necromancer becomes an Arcane/Divine caster.

That would work okay, but you'd still be left with the religious question - having Necromancers getting their power from the normal gods begs the question of why they aren't part of the Church. They don't seem to fit with the Witches and Scouts as nature worshippers, and having them worship some other gods would seem to be making them direct enemies of both the Church and the mage organisations; which would basically make them unplayable as PCs in most parties.

So where can they get their divine power that is not the normal gods but is also not going to get them all killed on sight?
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:33 am

Hmmm...

How about:
  • When travellers and immigrants from the East first came over and established their Dojos to teach their philosophy and fighting styles, they also brought over their religion: the veneration of ancestors rather than the worship of gods. One group of academics from the College Of Sorcery were intrigued by the possibilities of this new divine power, and they combined it with their arcane learning to produce a new style of magic - Necromancy. The College didn't approve of their activities and didn't want to damage relations with the Church, so the Necromancers were kicked out. They formed their own rival college - the School Of Necromancy - to continue teaching their form of magic. The Church does not like the School Of Necromancy, and tries to discourage people from using them, but does not act openly against it.
    • Necromancers - They contact people's dead relatives and create undead. They also have some darkness and decay related spells (which don't exactly help their reputation).
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

smarttman
Hobgoblin
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:48 pm
Gender: male

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by smarttman » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:30 pm

I like it!

Sir_Firebrand
Kobold
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:06 pm
Gender: male

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Sir_Firebrand » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:56 am

Blacky the Blackball wrote:Artificer - A type of mage whose spells are all about making magic items. Making magic items takes weeks or even months, so they aren't actually that great in an adventuring party - they're more of an NPC class.
This is simply fixable by making the Artificer able to make weapons capable of a "single charge" enchantment. This would make the Artificer a supportive ally. Especially helping the party and being able to deal with enemies better than a "commoner".

Changing the "this spell must be cast every day for the duration of the item’s crafting" to "this spell must be cast every day for the duration of the item’s crafting or enchant an already crafted item for the next use (single use/one day duration)"

No more complex rules, enchanting an already crafted weapon wouldn't make it "forever" enchanted, but make it hold a single charge for the next attack. Enchanting during the combat is the same as activating a magic item. So, Artificers are really useful before the combat, not during it. The enchanter became a really useful party member.

Everything seems to be perfect IMO, maybe need some tweaks, but works.

I'm waiting for the final version to give it a try.

User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:52 am

Hi, and welcome to The Piazza!
Sir_Firebrand wrote:
Blacky the Blackball wrote:Artificer - A type of mage whose spells are all about making magic items. Making magic items takes weeks or even months, so they aren't actually that great in an adventuring party - they're more of an NPC class.
This is simply fixable by making the Artificer able to make weapons capable of a "single charge" enchantment. This would make the Artificer a supportive ally. Especially helping the party and being able to deal with enemies better than a "commoner".

Changing the "this spell must be cast every day for the duration of the item’s crafting" to "this spell must be cast every day for the duration of the item’s crafting or enchant an already crafted item for the next use (single use/one day duration)"

No more complex rules, enchanting an already crafted weapon wouldn't make it "forever" enchanted, but make it hold a single charge for the next attack. Enchanting during the combat is the same as activating a magic item. So, Artificers are really useful before the combat, not during it. The enchanter became a really useful party member.
Hmmm... This sounds good in principle, but I've a feeling that it would make the artificer less useful rather than more useful.

At the moment, an artificer can contribute to a party in three ways...

1) During periods of downtime they can make magical items for the party for free (assuming you're handwaving the cost of materials, which is what I recommend).
2) During an adventure, they can use the items they've created (e.g. in combat). This is particularly true of wands, rods and staves because they can recharge them for free.
3) Because they're a full arcane spell user, they can also cast common and esoteric arcane spells during adventures.

Unfortunately, if you made them enchant items temporarily this would limit all three of those ways of contributing...

1) There would be little point making more items than they can power in a day, so the party would have fewer items.
2) During an adventure if they can only power a limited number of items (because they will have limited mana) and this limited number is spread throughout the party they will end up with fewer items to use themselves.
3) Similarly, every point of mana they use to power an item is a point of mana less that they have available to cast common or esoteric arcane spells.

Having said that, I may tweak the item creation rules slightly. As they stand (and they're a direct copy of Rolemaster's rules at the moment) it takes - with the exception of a level 1 scroll - over a month to make even the simplest item, and any item of reasonable quality will take half a year or more.

I'll probably simply reduce the time needed from a week per spell level to something like a day per spell level.
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:31 pm

Blacky the Blackball wrote:
  • There is a single Church, which may have its share of schisms and heretics of course, that worships all the gods (except those whose worship is forbidden). That church is mostly city based and includes in it
I'd propose another (slightly different) point of view: everybody worships a full pantheon with all the gods (a bit like Greek/Roman pantheon).
Even "bad/evil" gods/demons are worshipped and respected to ask them to overlook the worshippers (like Zeus the god of thunder was worshipped and sacrifices were offered asking him to spare the city from his thunders).
Then (maybe) everybody can have a personal "protector" between the other gods, that is especially worshipped (the same can be true for cities or clans etc.) a bit like in the middle age when everybody and every place had a "patron saint".
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:37 pm

Besides the "pantheon" (more cities) there can be another kind of philosophy (more countryside and forest) where the worship of the gods fades somehow in the worship of "nature" in general (see witches or druids etc.).
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:55 pm

Blacky the Blackball wrote:
  • When travellers and immigrants from the East first came over and established their Dojos to teach their philosophy and fighting styles, they also brought over their religion: the veneration of ancestors rather than the worship of gods.
I'd like to propose another (similar) philosophical double approach:
- somebody thinks that the gods are above our reach and that we can't reach them (then maybe when they go to higher level they realize that they can achieve immortality)
- somebody else thinks that the gods were originally great humans (demi-humans, humanoids, goblinoids, etc.) that achieved immortality and are still remembered, so everybody is a "god" as everybody reaches immortality in some way - this can be extended to the fact that the first ones to worship are your own ancestors
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:08 am

Witches: in my (confused) brain, witches do live in farming communities (not proper wilderness), but their magic is not only targeting nature, but also people (controlling them with love filters, charme, etc.) and for their personal gain/power, while Druids live in forests (proper wilderness) and their magic targets just nature for the sake of nature and natural balance (not for the druids' gain or power).
They do look different to me (although there are for sure similarities).

Maybe from the spell list you can decide if you want only witches, only druids, both classes or find some kind of synthesis between them...
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:42 am

Yaztromo wrote:
Blacky the Blackball wrote:
  • There is a single Church, which may have its share of schisms and heretics of course, that worships all the gods (except those whose worship is forbidden). That church is mostly city based and includes in it
I'd propose another (slightly different) point of view: everybody worships a full pantheon with all the gods (a bit like Greek/Roman pantheon).
Even "bad/evil" gods/demons are worshipped and respected to ask them to overlook the worshippers (like Zeus the god of thunder was worshipped and sacrifices were offered asking him to spare the city from his thunders).
Then (maybe) everybody can have a personal "protector" between the other gods, that is especially worshipped (the same can be true for cities or clans etc.) a bit like in the middle age when everybody and every place had a "patron saint".
This is something that would be campaign specific. In the default setting the existence of one or more gods is a matter of faith. Divine casters of all types get their power, even those with contradictory worldviews, but no-one has ever actually seen or spoken to a god - so no individual belief system can be proven to be objectively true.
Yaztromo wrote:Besides the "pantheon" (more cities) there can be another kind of philosophy (more countryside and forest) where the worship of the gods fades somehow in the worship of "nature" in general (see witches or druids etc.).
Yep, that's how I'm imagining it. Witches venerate nature rather than a god or gods.
Yaztromo wrote:
Blacky the Blackball wrote:
  • When travellers and immigrants from the East first came over and established their Dojos to teach their philosophy and fighting styles, they also brought over their religion: the veneration of ancestors rather than the worship of gods.
I'd like to propose another (similar) philosophical double approach:
- somebody thinks that the gods are above our reach and that we can't reach them (then maybe when they go to higher level they realize that they can achieve immortality)
- somebody else thinks that the gods were originally great humans (demi-humans, humanoids, goblinoids, etc.) that achieved immortality and are still remembered, so everybody is a "god" as everybody reaches immortality in some way - this can be extended to the fact that the first ones to worship are your own ancestors
There are no rules for immortality in Darkest Dungeons. But that doesn't stop you from adding them yourself if you want that in your setting.
Yaztromo wrote:Witches: in my (confused) brain, witches do live in farming communities (not proper wilderness), but their magic is not only targeting nature, but also people (controlling them with love filters, charme, etc.) and for their personal gain/power, while Druids live in forests (proper wilderness) and their magic targets just nature for the sake of nature and natural balance (not for the druids' gain or power).
They do look different to me (although there are for sure similarities).

Maybe from the spell list you can decide if you want only witches, only druids, both classes or find some kind of synthesis between them...
Rolemaster has five "nature" oriented classes.

Two in the core rules: the Animist (a full divine spell-caster who deals with plants more than animals) and the Ranger (a partial divine spell-caster who fights and has outdoor survival spells).
One in the Rolemaster Companion: the Druid (a full divine spell-caster who has animal/plant/stone oriented spells and who has a whole list of spells to enhance their "Druidstaff").
Two in the Rolemaster Companion II: the Witch (a hybrid divine/psionic spell-caster who makes potions, candles, summons demons, and enchants people) and the Beastmaster (a partial psionic spell-caster who fights and gets animal companions)

My "Scout" class is a direct translation of Rolemaster's Ranger class.

My "Witch" class is a full divine spell-caster that has the skill costs from Rolemaster's Animist (although to be fair, Rolemaster's Druid also uses those same costs) and has four of the Druid's spell paths; one of the Animist's spell paths; and one of the Beastmaster's spell paths.

So in terms of spells, my witch is closer to Rolemaster's witch than it is to Rolemaster's druid; but in terms of flavour I want the class to be the "wise woman" or "cunning person" of the village, rather than the "nature priest" out in the wilderness - which is why I'm calling them a witch.
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:35 pm

Blacky the Blackball wrote:[*]Scourges - Inquisitors, judges and punishers who seek out enemies of the church (as these guys also use arcane magic, they are taught by visiting professors from the magical colleges).[/list]
So why not calling them "inquisitors"? possibly also "punishers" would do...
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

User avatar
Blacky the Blackball
Storm Giant
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:47 am
Gender: male
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Blacky the Blackball » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:34 am

Yaztromo wrote:
Blacky the Blackball wrote:[*]Scourges - Inquisitors, judges and punishers who seek out enemies of the church (as these guys also use arcane magic, they are taught by visiting professors from the magical colleges).[/list]
So why not calling them "inquisitors"? possibly also "punishers" would do...
Because "scourges" sounds cooler.
Check out Gurbintroll Games for my free RPGs (including Dark Dungeons and FASERIP)!

(I'm a moderator for "The Orc's Revenge" and its sub-forums. If I need to post anything officially as a mod, rather than just as a user, I'll post it in green.)

User avatar
Yaztromo
The Real Nowhere Man
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 pm
Gender: male
Location: My Nowhere Land

Re: [Darkest Dungeons] - Help me with the classes!

Post by Yaztromo » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:05 am

Historically, Assassins were a sect (of... well... assassins) that used to take drugs (that's where their name comes from).
It is not clear if they took drugs to feel clear minded and not overstressed during an assassination or to overcome their sense of guilt coming from assassinations or if it was just a use of their sect (several sects at that time used to take drugs)...
You may (or may not) want to consider adding somehow this aspect to the assassins class.
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

Post Reply

Return to “Dark Dungeons”