The Wyrmsteeth in BC 2300

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The Wyrmsteeth in BC 2300

Postby Chimpman » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:54 pm

Sturm brought up a question about the Wyrmsteeth range (and the dragons living there) during this time period, and I thought it might be a good topic to explore. The first place I went was Giulio Caroletti's Wyrmsteeth Gaz on the Vaults. Here is an excerpt from the DM's history section:

Dragons as a race are one of the oldest created in Mystara. After the axis shift brought about by the Great Rain of Fire, Norwold became one of coldest regions of the planet. Dragons, as a race, have subspecies that adapt to any climate easily, and the high mountains of Norwold were a preferred choice for these intelligent flying lizards. The first dragons to come here were the White. They had moved from the Arctic Regions that had become too hot with the polar shift, and many settled here; others searched further, and finally moved along with frost giants to occupy barren Frosthaven. The White lived in Wyrmsteeth from around 2800 BC in relative peace, little bothered by Antalian tribesmen who were occupied Norwold (indeed, these men proved tasty if frozen)

Problems arose around the year 1900 BC, when a solitary red dragon named Syare stumbled upon the volcanoes of Wyrmsteeth Range and decided to make them his new home. His encounter with the white dragons of the region didn't deter him; he defeated the greatest of them and the others fled, some to the Icereach range, some even to Frosthaven. Then he begin to ravage the Antalian villages and cities, contributing to the fall of that civilisation. Syare forced the Antalian cities to revere him as a god, demanding sacrifices in his name. His rulership was cruel and savage, but it provided the Antalians protection against the horde of King Loark in 1722 BC. Syare ruled undefeated for centuries, finally leaving his realm only to seek Immortality in the Sphere of Matter.


Based on this information it looks like the Wyrmsteeth range would be predominantly inhabited by white dragons circa BC 2300. I suspect there are skirmishes between the dragons and some of their neighbors (mostly the Antalians and the giants of Grondheim).

I'm still looking for other sources of information, but I'd appreciate if anyone who has any could post it here!
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Re: The Wyrmsteeth in BC 2300

Postby Havard » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:40 pm

Blackmoor Stuff:
My Blackmoor Campaign, based on some of the ideas in Mystaros' Blackmoor Epic are based on the idea that the Chromatic Dragons based on Brun were servants of Hel (Hella) opposing Odin (Odir) and the men of Blackmoor. This made the Chromatic Dragons allies of the Beastmen of the Borean Valley. These dragons are defeated by Blackmoor and forced into the more mountainous regions of Brun to lick their wounds. Who knows what happens to them during the GRoF?


D20 Blackmoor introduces 3 dragon Gods:
Insellageth (L), Chamber (C) and Tsartha (N). In my comparison to the Mystara Immortals, I have suggested that these correspond to the three Dragon Rulers. My idea is that Insellageth later becomes the Great One, recruiting Thelvyn to become his Diamond Dragon. The question is then what happens to Chamber and Tsartha. Are they destroyed in the aftermath of the Great Rain of Fire or do they fade at a later time? Or are they still around, just busy on other planes etc. In any case, you could make use of them for BC2300 for sure, and Insellageth definitely.


Dragonlord Chronicles:
I don't remember how much the Wyrmsteeth Gaz incorporates material from the Dragonlord Chronicles. BC2300 is a long time before the era of Thelvyn and the Parliament of Dragons, but there could be some seeds to that material dating a long time back. Dragons have long memories, right?

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Re: The Wyrmsteeth in BC 2300

Postby Sturm » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:36 am

Hi, I don't have much more info except for some bits developed IMC, where dragons were divided since ancient times among chromatics, metallics and gemstone, a division of clans and philosophies...
Mishler's history of Blackmoor says:
"In 5500 BC Chromatic Dragons, huge powerful beings from another galaxy, arrived on Brun in the lands inhabited by the Dwarves and decimated the Dwarven civilisation (which lay in and around the "Wyrmsteeth Range"). The Chromatic Dragons formed their own Draconian Empire, and began enslaving numerous Neathar clans in the region".
I do not follow this timeline exactly as dragons IMC are among the oldest beings living in Mystara, so they didn't come from another place, but I follow it partially as IMC too the chromatic establish their empire in the area around that time, to balance the growing human encroachment...

BTW I see that in your work dwarves came originally from Skothar.. do you think it's there the origin of dwarves? Mishler obviously placed it on Brun, but I searched through the Rockhome Gaz and it seems not very specific about the "Blackmoor" dwarves original birthplace...
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Re: The Wyrmsteeth in BC 2300

Postby Havard » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:08 am

Sturm wrote:Hi, I don't have much more info except for some bits developed IMC, where dragons were divided since ancient times among chromatics, metallics and gemstone, a division of clans and philosophies...
Mishler's history of Blackmoor says:
"In 5500 BC Chromatic Dragons, huge powerful beings from another galaxy, arrived on Brun in the lands inhabited by the Dwarves and decimated the Dwarven civilisation (which lay in and around the "Wyrmsteeth Range"). The Chromatic Dragons formed their own Draconian Empire, and began enslaving numerous Neathar clans in the region".
I do not follow this timeline exactly as dragons IMC are among the oldest beings living in Mystara, so they didn't come from another place, but I follow it partially as IMC too the chromatic establish their empire in the area around that time, to balance the growing human encroachment...


That is a good way of adapting existing fan material to your own premises :)
IMC Dragons were created far from Mystara, but the exact date on which they arrived can be debated. Mishler also has a breed of "Native Dragons" from Mystara, but these I believe are the races evolving into Chimeras, Dragonnes and Dragon Turtles rather than the Chromatic/Metallic breeds.

BTW I see that in your work dwarves came originally from Skothar.. do you think it's there the origin of dwarves? Mishler obviously placed it on Brun, but I searched through the Rockhome Gaz and it seems not very specific about the "Blackmoor" dwarves original birthplace...


The way I read Chimpman's map is that Dwarves mass migrated to Brun after the GRoF, but it doesnt say much about where they came from originally? The Hollow World Map marks Dwarves on Brun already around BC5000. These are the ones Mishler describe as Dwarf Goatherders.

From Blackmoor sources we know that Uberstar Khazakhum lead dwarven settlers to the Blackmoor region ca 4500 BC (500 years before Uther). This also coincides with the time when the Temple of Id was destroyed by the Thonia/Elf Alliance and the creation of Beastmen by Hel.



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Re: The Wyrmsteeth in BC 2300

Postby Sturm » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:20 am

I always thought dwarves were the main evolution of Brutemen, as Kagyar was one of them, and as IMC Brutemen had a major presence on Brun in ancient times, I tend to believe dwarves are Brun natives... but nothing really prevent them from being natives of some areas of Skothar or the Alphatian sea.. BTW another partial Brutemen offshot IMC were the modern humans that I think it's established were Skothar natives..

About dragons IMC their presence in Brun date back to millions of years ago, before the time of dinosaurs, even if the modern breeds of dragons are something more recent, I'd say in the timeframe of some thousands years.. anyway by 2300BC all the modern dragon races should be present..
As I said in a recent thread I'd use more breeds/clans than the canon ones (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10193) but probably they would not be present in the Wyrmsteeth area...
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Re: The Wyrmsteeth in BC 2300

Postby Zendrolion » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:46 pm

Chimpman wrote:I'm still looking for other sources of information, but I'd appreciate if anyone who has any could post it here!


Hi, Chimp! There is also my History of Dragonkind booklet, which represents my attempt to reconcile various canon sources about Mystaran dragons. It was never uploaded at the Vaults, so that's probably why it was overlooked, but there should be a topic regarding it here in the forums.

Anyway, it could perhaps be of some use to your search. I put the foundation of Windreach (the capital of the Dragon Nation according to Dragonlord Trilogy) in BC 2800, so for the purpose of Mystara BC 2300 there would certainly be some dragons in the Wyrmsteeth.

According to the novels, however, the Dragon Nation is a peaceful organization created by the Gold Dragons following the will of the Great One in order to bring peace between dragons and other races, and to help rebuild the dragon race after the catastrophes of the Time of the First Dragonlord and the Great Rain of Fire. So in my history I tried to follow those guidelines found in the novels.

Havard wrote:D20 Blackmoor introduces 3 dragon Gods:
Insellageth (L), Chamber (C) and Tsartha (N). In my comparison to the Mystara Immortals, I have suggested that these correspond to the three Dragon Rulers. My idea is that Insellageth later becomes the Great One, recruiting Thelvyn to become his Diamond Dragon. The question is then what happens to Chamber and Tsartha. Are they destroyed in the aftermath of the Great Rain of Fire or do they fade at a later time? Or are they still around, just busy on other planes etc. In any case, you could make use of them for BC2300 for sure, and Insellageth definitely.


In my booklet, I called the mortal Great One Raakthyrl, but he could well be Insellageth instead (the name Raakthyrl was created by me and draws on no canon source). Also, from Ziets' article we learn that in the past a Moon Dragon stepped down from his "office" (I placed this event in BC 1000), so this could be Chamber. About the Sun Dragon, at least one time the Ruler of Neutral Dragons was destroyed (also from Ziet's article, I placed this event in AC 650); the destroyed Sun Dragon could have been Tsartha.

What do you think?
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Re: The Wyrmsteeth in BC 2300

Postby Chimpman » Tue May 07, 2013 1:02 am

I'm not ignoring this. I need a bit more time to go through your History of Dragonkind booklet with an eye toward BC 2300. I'll have comments soon!
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