Mogreth

Rebuilding the world in the wake of the Great Rain of Fire.

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Re: Mogreth

Postby Sturm » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:06 am

Jump on this thread as I read recently very interesting things about reptilians that IMHO should be taken into consideration... maybe you did already, in this case sorry!
So I discovered several things I didn't know or know only partially:
- Most reptilians communicate with odors and postures. Hence their prejudices against mammals would be very justified by the fact that such lowly creatures smell wrong and cannot stay put in proper positions.
- Reptilians are really more stupid with low temperatures and humidity, bringing therefore a social regression if such things happen.
- Croc mums care for their eggs maniacally, snakes coils around them, while other reptilians do not and simply bury them, but return to watch them often. Eggs nurseries should be a fundamental and heavily guarded feature in reptilian societies, also because most reptilian eggs have softer shells than birds..
- Crocodiles embryos "speak" in egg to tell mommy they're ready to hatch.. Turtles and crocs have complex vocalizations.. Famous reptilian singers should be a feature of their societies :-)
- Many croc parents raise juveniles together (male and female) or even collectively, but other reptilians do not, juveniles are already capable of living on their own, but "four babies form a group of siblings called pods, which stay together for months. The rub up against each other frequently, they groom each other and sleep together". It's likely that the pod would be a social unity lasting for life, maybe the most important one in reptilian society.
- Pods play together, and play behavior is common in reptilians as in mammals and bird..
- Pods have leaders, but the leader do not "command" the others, he rather protect them. Maybe mammals see reptilian hierarchy and found it oppressive, while from their point of view it's a matter of brotherly responsibility. Also brothers have been observed to be ready to sacrifice themselves to protect sisters.
- Reptlians are very good at solving problems and use tools too... reptilians should have technicians and engineers!
- They have complex and diversified mating rituals that include competition between males and females too, exclusive relationships, changing of colors by males, courtship dances involving hundreds and more.. so summer mating season should be an interesting time in reptilian society...
- Families could live together or near as happens in mammals.

I found all this quite important because the typical depiction of reptilian societies in fantasy world is always that of cold, calculating, emotionless beings, inflexible enemies of men.. while they could have several prejudices against mammals, it's also probable that men have many prejudices against them...
A friendly mogrethian who understand humans better than his countrymen, willing to aid PCs and explain them Mogreth society would be, IMHO, a great starting point for a very original adventure... just my 2 cents..
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:20 pm

This is all great - and some of this is already reflected in what I've written so far (e.g., family organisation, heavily-guarded egg nurseries, raising children collectively, etc.) I think your point about alternative forms of communication is worth working in more - I touched on it when I designed the troglodyte as a PC race in Sharon Dornhoff's Hollow Moon series, but there is no reason why lizard men would not use tail movements to emphasise certain points, etc. In fact, one of my players (who plays a lizard man) has done some of this on his own.

Still thinking about a good mechanism for cold-bloodedness. Right now I'm leaning towards reptilians being more sluggish and unsociable (initiative and Dex penalties, plus a decreased willingness to communicate, in colder temperatures). Likewise, reptilians would be inclined to sun themselves on hot days, and are capable of being eerily immobile for hours if they wish ("Is Setek dead?" "No, he's just resting.")

I've already decided that reptilians don't need to eat as much because of their cold-bloodedness - one good-sized meal per week is enough. ("Want some steak, Setek?" "No, thank you. I ate lassst week.")

Scent plays an important role. Lizard men (and reptilians in general) have a tribal scent plus an individual scent (each of which is distinguishable to them). Plus, when a female is in season her personal scent changes. More civilised tribes in the modern era (and in Mogreth as a whole) would stage elaborate, often violent, games and feats of skill that allow the males to vent their sexual aggression and demonstrate their prowess to the females. Females have their own demonstrations, and males indicate to their clan elders who they prefer - however, the female's choice comes first.

Biologically, most reptilian societies are inclined to be matriarchal, IMO. Politics, being sublimated warfare, tends to be dominated by males; however, Mogreth would definitely have had its share of Sorcerer-Queens throughout its history. The "snapshot" of BC 2300 just happens to a time when all the leaders are male.

But yes, I definitely see Mogreth as an opportunity to give reptilians more depth as a playable race. It will include my re-write of the lizard man PC race, which has been play-tested for a year now and is working well.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Sturm » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:14 pm

Not much to add, for now, but all great ideas and on the same line I was following... Agree also on matriarchal societies among reptilians..
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:40 pm

Hey Seer,

I'm resurrecting this a bit because I've been looking around for timelines (for other projects) and I noticed the Mogreth timeline on the Vaults. It looks like this timeline was taken from the Fall of Nithia and World of 500 BC (long article) (as linked from the initial post in this thread... however

1) The timeline is marked as "provisional"

2) The timeline seems to deal with mostly The First Empire of Mogreth (ruled over by the Carnifex), while this thread deals mostly with The Second Empire of Mogreth (ruled over by the Sorcerer Kings).

I'm just wondering if you have any other notes detailing events specific to the Second Empire. I know we've talked about some major events in that time period (slave revolt, flooding of Mogreth, etc), but it may take me a while to piece everything together. I may start going through this thread again (but if you have something already organized, that might help!)

Anyway, I'd love to know!
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:49 pm

Here are a couple more events that I've been able to tease out of the conversation:

BC 2300: The Second Empire of Mogreth is at its height.

BC 2200-2000: Political divisions deepen, and other faiths spread further throughout Mogreth. A rising slave population creates conditions that are ideal for revlution and several hot zones erupt into conflict.

BC 2000: Raismyr Glacier Wall bursts, unleashing a torrential flood which sweeps most of Mogreth into the sea. The Second Empire of Mogreth has come to an end.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:12 pm

Chimpman wrote:Here are a couple more events that I've been able to tease out of the conversation:

BC 2300: The Second Empire of Mogreth is at its height.

BC 2200-2000: Political divisions deepen, and other faiths spread further throughout Mogreth. A rising slave population creates conditions that are ideal for revlution and several hot zones erupt into conflict.

BC 2000: Raismyr Glacier Wall bursts, unleashing a torrential flood which sweeps most of Mogreth into the sea. The Second Empire of Mogreth has come to an end.


This is all legit. The BC 2300 setting is basically the last, great gasp of Mogreth, before all the rot sets in.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:20 pm

Chimpman wrote:
I'm just wondering if you have any other notes detailing events specific to the Second Empire. I know we've talked about some major events in that time period (slave revolt, flooding of Mogreth, etc), but it may take me a while to piece everything together. I may start going through this thread again (but if you have something already organized, that might help!)

Anyway, I'd love to know!


Hey!

Yeah...the Gazetteer of Mogreth. Something I fully intended to make nice and pretty. If I do one project in the next year, I really should package it properly and unleash it on the masses. It might make a nice diversion from my work on Stormtalons. :)

I *do* have a workfile that was intended to become the gazetteer. I'll review it.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:02 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:I *do* have a workfile that was intended to become the gazetteer. I'll review it.

That would truly be awesome!

I've got a bunch of Taymora material that is just waiting to be finished up as well. I may try to tackle that before the end of the year (in between work for Threshold)
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