Mogreth

Rebuilding the world in the wake of the Great Rain of Fire.

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Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:46 pm

Image

As a companion piece to Chimpman's work on the Shimmering Lands, I'll park any info I have on Mogreth here.

Overview

Timeline (provisional)

Races

Society

Government

Locations

Foreign Relations

Religion in Mogreth

The Armies of Mogreth

Magic

Adventure Ideas
The Road to Isshum

NPCs

References
Last edited by Seer of Yhog on Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:00 pm, edited 34 times in total.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:50 pm

MYSTARA 2300 BC

MOGRETH - The Empire of the Lizard Kings


OVERVIEW

Some context from the Ctesiphon Scrolls...

"This account speaks of the loathsome realm of Mogreth, which in its heyday lay athwart the swampy fens of the river they named 'Issus', and whose shadow stretched as far as the mountains. The men of Mogreth were not men as should walk beneath the wholesome rays of the Sun, for they were lizardfolk who did not revere the powers as we do, and who spoke tongues that no other would dare speak. They did not till the land, nor husband animals, nor harvest fish as men would do. Whilst they kept to their temples and other personal domains, their work was carried out by slaves of many races - including men.

"Great and awful were their cities. At the mouth of Issus there lay Isshum, whose spires reached high into the skies and whose roots extended deep into the sea, and whose walls ensconced nearly a quarter million souls. To the south, on a peninsula south of the mountains, there lay Theliir, and in the southern foothills, near the source of the Issus, rose the black temple of Teshos. Other cities there were, but the lizards of Mogreth would suffer no outlanders within their walls, save for those three.

"The rites of Mogreth bear no description by any man, but by their own words they are said to descend from other realms of even more ancient age. For they claimed always to have witnessed the arrival of men in the lands south of the mountains, and to have seen the great sundering that befell that place. Always they held men in lower esteem, and used him as we would use a beast of burden.

"But there came a time when the towers of Mogreth fell, when their dark stain was washed from the land and the Issus ran clean once more. And in that time great Isshum shook, and sank into the sea. Afterwards no man would speak of the lizards who held sway, for their slaves had claimed their freedom, and remade Mogreth in their own image."
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Havard » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:00 pm

Cool Geoff! Looking forward to seeing where this is going.

Let me get a few things straight: Mogreth is the older Lizardman Civilization of Mystara, right? The lizardmen of Malpheggi and Ierendi and references to Lizardmen in Ylaruam all lead back to Mogreth, am I right?

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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:09 pm

Hi Havard,

You're right! I would also say that Mogreth was the last great post-Carnifex reptillian civilisation (thus far), too. The lizardmen referred to in the Ylaruam gaz are definitely supposed to refer to these guys, but as for the Mapheggi lizardmen I'm not as sure. I admit that there would be a certain logic to the Malpheggi lizardmen being descended from the folk of Mogreth (likely they would have departed the realm - either as colonists or refugees - before its collapse, or not long afterwards).
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Khuzd » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:14 pm

Do not forget the lizardmen of Ierendi...

To me, lizardmen have always been linked to black dragons: some times as uneasy allies, sometimes simply slaves and servants (the dragon is the master, the lizardman is the servant).
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:02 pm

I'm already getting shudders down the back of my spine just thinking about "the road to Isshum." Dwarven slavers marching their POWs through narrow passes in the eastern Makkres, poling rafts through fetid swamps (all the while under constant watch from below the surface), and finally reaching the walled city, there to be sold to some scaly master for who knows what purpose.

:D Love it!
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:51 pm

Some atmosphere....

"Isshum, the great city of the Issus, upon whose fetid delta it squatted like a massive titan. There it raised its mighty towers, two in number, like the arms of a supplicant towards the heavens, while its miles of stone piers stretched into the sea like tentacles. It was the City of Mogreth, the centre around which its might revolved, and it was to Isshum that all roads in the southeast ultimately led. For the select few, Isshum was a repository of lost lore of elder ages, where the lucky might learn a chance secret at the feet of the great sorcerer kings. For most, however, the road to Isshum led to a life of misery, which might be mercifully cut short in the arena."
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:04 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:You're right! I would also say that Mogreth was the last great post-Carnifex reptillian civilisation (thus far), too. The lizardmen referred to in the Ylaruam gaz are definitely supposed to refer to these guys, but as for the Mapheggi lizardmen I'm not as sure. I admit that there would be a certain logic to the Malpheggi lizardmen being descended from the folk of Mogreth (likely they would have departed the realm - either as colonists or refugees - before its collapse, or not long afterwards).


Hmmm... both locations (Malpheggi and Ierendi) would have been smack dab in the middle of Taymoran territory. Assuming that Mogreth was destroyed circa 1700 BC (due to mega-flood or whatever), I can think of only a couple of scenarios:

1) A portion of the lizardfolk left prior to 1700 BC, and moved into Taymoran lands. Having done this they would either have to be an invasion force, or willingly be subjugated by the Taymorans, or be moving into land not currently claimed. One possibility for this exodus could be that this was a small portion of the populace that was swayed by the immortals to abandon their heathen (OB worshiping) ways.

2) Survivors left Mogreth after its destruction, either in search of more hospitable land (because their swamps were sunk beneath the sea) or because with their power base lost their slaves were uprising (and winning). This being the case these Mogreth probably retained much of their cultural outlook.

It is possible that both of these scenarios happened at various times, but I'm not sure. If so we could have two very different post-Mogreth societies. Those on Ierendi would have left before the downfall of Mogreth and the sinking of Taymora (and thus be stuck in areas that later became islands), while those in the Malpheggi would have migrated there after Mogreth fell.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:01 pm

Races

Mogreth, during its second imperial period, is a polyglot empire. The dominant lizard men keep a tight rein on power; but although they are well served by frogfolk and troglodytes, the rising number of human slaves is beginning to worry the sorcerer kings.

Lizard Men

Lizard men are the dominant race of Mogreth, having taken over that role from the now-vanished Carnifex who ruled the First Empire long ago. They occupy the most prominent positions in government, command the imperial armies, study ancient lore, and otherwise live lives of privilege in their ancient cities. Having been elevated almost to the status of gods, the lizard men view the world as a gift from the Outer Beings. Yet they cannot create great works as their predecessors did, and this knowledge drives them mad with envy and ambition. They have conveniently forgotten that it was they who were the servants in the First Empire.

Frogfolk

Frogfolk are accorded a status second only to the lizard men. Most keep to themselves deep in the swampy deltas of eastern Mogreth, where they live with almost complete autonomy. Their connection to the Outer Beings is strong, and they possess a body of lore predating even Y’hog, which they guard jealously. Those found in cities often work in the temples, and generally occupy the religious caste.

Troglodytes

Part of the legacy passed down from the Carnifex rulers of the First Empire was the knowledge of how to breed servitor races. The Carnifex of Y’hog had experimented on the troglodytes in order to create an almost disposable race of slave warriors. The kings of old Mogreth continued the tradition, modifying specimens they had captured in order to produce even hardier breeds. The sorcerer kings of the Second Empire are no different, and they are seeking to restore the fading glory of their realm by tampering with nature once more.

Troglodytes are used as labourers where it is thought human slaves would be considered undependable or dangerous. They forge weapons and armour, build defences, provide the backbone of Mogreth’s armies, and work as trusted domestic servants. They can be considered the common citizens of the realm.

Humans

Humans have lived in southeastern Brun for centuries, and for much of that time they have been relatively free. The sorcerer kings of Mogreth long looked upon them as lesser beings, and saw in them the potential to be beasts of burden. As the Second Empire expanded inland, the indigenous populations were enslaved, and now thousands toil in mines, in the fields, on the seas, and in the perilous swamps. Life is brutal, and many have fled further inland where, it is said, humans yet live in freedom.

Life in the cities is even worse. The great palaces and catacombs of the sorcerer kings were built by human hands, and so grandiose are these structures that the armies of Mogreth must press further inland to secure more slaves, or otherwise buy them from their neighbours. The worst fate of all, more terrible even than the great arena of Isshum, is to end up as an experiment of a bored sorcerer king.

Shortfolk

An uneasy peace exists with the Shimmering Lands, as the dwarves and gnomes of the north craft many things that are highly prized by the sorcerer kings of Mogreth. Some dwarves have settled in the lesser cities of Mogreth to ply their trades, and have been richly rewarded. Others fill their pockets as slavers for the lizard men.

Humanoids

Although rare, humanoids can be found in Mogreth - all of them are slaves. Most are former members of the horde of Urzud, either captured during a failed border raid or sold into slavery by the dwarves of the Shimmering Lands. They are widely regarded as undependable and savage, and are typically assigned the most dangerous or dirtiest jobs a slave can perform, such as cleaning sewers, mining, capturing monsters and animals for the arena, and so on.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Havard » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:41 pm

Great overview of the races. I like the inclusion of the Frog Folk in particular. I guess they may have been part of the Blackmoorian colonization of western Brun? Your description of the Frog folk is really evocative. These power hungry priestly types with a really pathetic way of guarding their secrets, perhaps for little other reason than to make themselves feel important. I wonder if they have other secrets preserved from the Blackmoor era as well? Maybe this is the explanation for Prince Jaggar's Laser Pistol?

In presentations of Blackmoor, I have used James Mishlers descriptions of the great empires on Davania formed by the descendants of the Carnifex. I believe these also stretched over to Brun, probably via the Serpent Peninsula. I guess remnants of these groups then moved from the Serpent Peninsula region after the Great Rain of Fire? I'm just trying to get an understanding of the larger picture here. Personally I would also like to tie these migrations in with the origins of the Savage Coast lizard races, although VotPA gives them creation dates at a much more recent time. I suppose the herathians who created the SC lizard races could have simply recreated races that existed in the past?

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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:58 am

Chimpman wrote:1) A portion of the lizardfolk left prior to 1700 BC, and moved into Taymoran lands. Having done this they would either have to be an invasion force, or willingly be subjugated by the Taymorans, or be moving into land not currently claimed. One possibility for this exodus could be that this was a small portion of the populace that was swayed by the immortals to abandon their heathen (OB worshiping) ways.


This is definitely possible, as not all lizard men worshipped the OBs. I also imagine that Taymor and Mogreth skirmished fairly frequently, and at various times the borders moved across the mountains. During a period of relative strength for Mogreth, a colonisation force may have been sent south. There is also the matter of the Tel Akbir Peninsula - IIRC Taymor has been drawn with the peninsula in its possession at various times, and I think James Mishler mentioned that the city of Tel Akbir may have been built on a Nithian city, which was originally a Taymoran one. The Mogrethian city of Theliir lay beneath all of that. At some point, perhaps towards the end of the second empire, Taymor may have staged a bold campaign and captured the peninsula. Mogreth was unable to retake it, and the Taymorans dispersed the lizard men throughout their empire. Of course, they didn't have much time to enjoy their victory, before southern Brun was destroyed...

Chimpman wrote:2) Survivors left Mogreth after its destruction, either in search of more hospitable land (because their swamps were sunk beneath the sea) or because with their power base lost their slaves were uprising (and winning). This being the case these Mogreth probably retained much of their cultural outlook.


This could work too - another reason to hate humansss.. :twisted:
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:26 pm

I placed some of the cities that you mentioned onto the BC 2300 map I'm working on. Theliir is on the site of Tel Akbir. Isshum is near to the location of Surra-Man-Raa, but not directly over the site. I also placed unnamed cities based on your Locations post. Let me know what you think about the placements.

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As an aside, it's also quite clear that any living in Theliir would probably survive a mega-flood mostly intact.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:29 pm

Ooooh, luvverly!

The placements look great to me! I would probably have placed another 3-4 good-sized settlements, too, so you've pretty much read my mind. Thinking about land changes et al, I was thinking we could extend the swampy region further inland by a few hexes. My reasoning is that, when the great flood occurred, the hills in the centre were essentially sand-blasted to oblivion, and the sediments filled in much of the delta (at least, the part that didn't sink). So, the ruins of Isshum *should* lie a few miles east of Surra-Man-Raa, under several feet of muck and sediment.

Interesting....
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:58 pm

Can do! The more swamp the better :D. So are you thinking the swamp should be extended all the way to the inner hills? Also what about the width of the swamp - is that wide enough, or should we cover some of those tree hexes ass well?

Oh, another thing I wanted to ask you about was the Mogreth capitol. I wasn't sure if you intended it to be Isshum, or something else. And what would have been on top of present day Ylaruam City (which I think is around those central hills)?
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:20 pm

I'd extend the swamp back to the easternmost line of hills - so two hexes further west, and I'd convert about half of the eastern light forest hexes into swamps, too. Leave the dense forest, though. The capital was intended to be Isshum, and the largest temple was located at Teshos (although the oldest, and possibly holiest, temple was in Isshum). So, the "religious" and political capitals were in two separate locations, although for all intents and purposes Isshum was "the" city.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:32 am

I've updated the above map, expanding the swamp and marking Isshum as the capitol.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:19 pm

Lovely ssswampssss. Very cool.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:07 pm

Olan of Gathol, mercenary captain, speaks to a recruit

“C’mere, boy, we’re going over the hills tonight and I’ve got something important for you to learn about Mogreth, and why we’re fighting.

“Look at my hands. See the brands on my palms? See how I’ve got no little fingers? That’s how you can tell when a man’s been to Mogreth. When they take slaves, the first thing they do is bring 'em to the nearest town or city, and there they’ll strip you of everything you’ve got and cut off your little fingers, to mark you as property. Anyone caught roaming the kingdom with eight fingers is an escaped slave – that’s a trip to Isshum, and you don’t usually come back.

“Then they’ll take you to a slave market, and like as not some fat lizard man’s factor will buy you. Then you’re marched off to your new home, and branded with your master’s sign. Most of ‘em just do your palms, but some do the face, too. Then you’re put to work – from sunup to sundown, most likely. If you’re lucky some trog’ll clout you with a club if you’re too slow or tired, but some masters like the scourge. Tie you up to a post and flay you with a great whip. In a strong hand, one cut’ll slice you down to the bone. Sometimes, if a master buys a batch of new slaves, he’ll have some of the older ones flayed to death as an example. If you’re a lucky slave, you’ll be working on a farm or in the forests. It’s hard work, but there’s more food for you out there, and you’re closer to the wilderness so you can escape a bit easier. That’s why I’m here now.

“The unlucky ones go to the cities. They’re all bad, but Isshum’s a hell of its own. That’s where the sorcerer kings have their arena – every month they hold a game – all the slaves who escaped, were disobedient, or unwanted get thrown into a huge ring and have to fight for their lives. Sometimes they throw wild animals or monsters against them. It’s said that the last surviving slave wins his freedom at sundown, but no one’s ever lived that long. Some slaves just end up as the toys of their masters, and the Immortals help 'em.

“Mogreth needs slaves to survive. That’s why they keep expanding west, and why they do business with the Shimmering Lands. They’ll keep at it, pushing their borders out and grinding down anything that stands in their way. That’s what happened to Gathol, my city. Nothing left there, now. Know that because of what you are, there can be no peace with Mogreth. We fight, any way we can, to survive. Remember all that, and maybe you won’t end up a slave, as I did.”
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:10 pm

A Taymoran trader speaks to a companion

“If there is one place where one may become truly wealthy, it is in the markets of Isshum. I know what you have probably heard about the city, and I can tell you that much of it is true. It is no place for humans, unless you bear a plaque. Even so, there are lizard kings who would enslave you despite that protection. But, if you stay in the Merchant Quarter after dark - or better yet, on your vessel - very little harm should come to you.

“The lizard kings of Mogreth are an indolent lot. They have grown too used to being waited on by their trog serfs and human slaves, that few will bestir themselves to any great effort. Left with so much leisure they interest themselves in whatever happens to catch their fancy. And some of their ‘hobbies’ do not bear discussion here, but it is in, shall we say, ‘facilitation’ that your wealth may come. I would not get into the slave trade – the dwarves have that sewn up, and of course our people officially frown on betraying our own race in this manner. Wars have been fought over it, as you know.

“What I speak of are magical items, exotic crafts and produce from the south – especially those of elven make. Those are the things the lizard kings currently adore, and for which they will pay handsomely. But move fast, for the tastes of the elite are fickle. We also do a brisk trade with the free companies of the mountains and the west, as well as the reavers of the Dawn Sea. Many of these are escaped slaves, and they are always seeking weapons and information for their cause. We profit, and injure the lizards in the bargain.

“But back to Isshum. An ancient city, thousands of years old at least. It is said that Isshum was old even before the rise of fallen Thonia, and I can believe it. The city seems to have settled on land and sea, like a tarp over a jumbled pile of merchandise. Streets go every which way and the city itself rises and falls like waves. In the lower portions it is literally a swamp, as much of the city is half-sunken into the surrounding mire. Isshum was no so much built as grew out of the boggy ground, like some sort of fungus. The buildings are tall and spindly, with many walkways bridging the streets below, but in the core of the city – the Old City, as it is called – the buildings have a different aspect. There, everything is obsidian and basalt, and the proportions seem designed for things much larger than currently live there. I will not speak of the bas-reliefs and statuary; gaze upon it yourself, and you will understand the minds that built Isshum. But in the centre, surrounded by the grandest palaces, is the arena.

“It is said that a temple to the beings worshipped by the people of Mogreth once stood there – the first temple. Whether that is true or not, what stands there now is much worse. If you are invited to attend a game (and you must not ever refuse), you will see sports far worse than anywhere else. Men forced to fight against beasts and other slaves, and worse yet are the games of the dead. In the arena, death is not the end, and the corpses of those who fell fight on, dismembered as they are, for the audience’s enjoyment.

“There is a prophecy, that one day the dark stain of Isshum shall be washed from the land. The kings of Mogreth denounce it as blasphemy, but it persists. Despite the wealth that I have made, I pray that it shall come to pass.”
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:28 pm

The idea I had is that the Sea of Dawn would be home to ex-slaves who have taken up piracy against Mogreth (and the Shimmering Lands to some degree). They could be based on the Dawn Coast, or Taymor might give them sanctuary on some of its outlying islands (and then claim no knowledge of their actions).

Other former slaves now operate along the border between Mogreth and Taymor (again, Taymor sells them supplies while feigning ignorance). Taymor isn't doing this out of kindness, but because the free companies are a useful tool in its own plots. At the same time, the lords of Taymor cast themselves as protectors of humanity, as the dwarves and lizards are clearly in league with dark forces. Not all of it's true, but it directs the locals' resentment towards useful ends.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:10 pm

I really like the feeling that you are building up here Geoff - the description of Isshum is the stuff that nightmares are made out of, and the bit about the prophecy of it being washed away is a nice touch. The eight fingered thing also fits in nicely with the lizards... I can start to see how they think. Very cold. Very reptilian ;).

As for slaves, I'm trying to think what kind the dwarves would come across - Antalians, elves, and giants from the north. Elves and giants again possibly from the Dawn Lands. Neathar and elves (those that broke off from Ilsundal's migration) to the west, and perhaps also Oltec or Azcan. I'm sure that the occasional unlucky (as in they didn't sell out their rivals first) dwarf or gnome would find their way to Isshum as well.

Other former slaves now operate along the border between Mogreth and Taymor (again, Taymor sells them supplies while feigning ignorance). Taymor isn't doing this out of kindness, but because the free companies are a useful tool in its own plots. At the same time, the lords of Taymor cast themselves as protectors of humanity, as the dwarves and lizards are clearly in league with dark forces. Not all of it's true, but it directs the locals' resentment towards useful ends.

We may be going in the same direction here, but the view I get of Taymor is that they might offer locals assistance from their current oppressors, only to step in as the new tyrants once the old are overthrown. At least that would be their plan. How do you see their stance on slavery? I can buy that they would not sell their own people, but would they buy slaves to send back to their masters at home? Everyone's got to eat after all.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:21 pm

Religion in Mogreth

The Sorcerer Kings of Mogreth permit only one faith in their empire, that of complete devotion to the Outer Beings (or, the True Lords of All Creation and Time, as they are officially known). Every settlement of notable size has at least one temple devoted to the entire pantheon of Outer Beings, but larger towns and cities also have temples dedicated to single Outer Beings. The most common single-purpose temples are those consecrated to Yurrgh-Thal (He Who Changes) and Rosheg-Kha (She Who Provides, the Father of Lizards). The Carnifex tongue is regarded as the holy language of Mogreth; although few of the nation’s inhabitants can now speak it. The dialect spoken is that which was used in Y’hog, and all holy rituals, as well as spells, are conducted in that language. A slightly more colloquial version is used as the language of court.

Priests of the Outer Beings occupy respected roles in Mogreth society; harming one – even by accident – brings severe penalties. Slaves are forbidden from making eye contact with a priest, under pain of death, as it is thought that the sanctity of the priest is defiled. Sorcerer kings, although practitioners of magic, are also considered to be priests according to the customs of Mogreth.


Faiths

The Faith
When one professes to “the Faith” in Mogreth, they are indicating that they follow the Outer Beings. It is broadly assumed (albeit incorrectly) that all lizard-kin and frog-folk inhabitants of Mogreth observe the Faith, and thus it is considered impolite to even ask any member of those races whether they do so. Those who feel a special calling become priests, but for the general populace the Faith is something that provides guiding principles on how to live and a framework for viewing the world, but little more. Slaves are forbidden from observing the Faith, and are executed for blasphemy if they are caught doing so.

Cult of Dominion
A secretive sect, the Cult of Dominion worships Slizzark. Coastal settlements, particularly remote ones in the Issus River Delta, and the Theliir Peninsula, have more active sects, presumably because they have greater access to Slizzark's servitors, many of whom favour watery environments.

The Way of Irrub
Some frog-folk are adherents to this highly secretive sect of the Faith. Although the Outer Beings are venerated, the rituals and prophecies were handed down, in highly corrupted form, from the lost empire of Y’ruth. The works of the long-dead sage Irrub constitute holy texts, and they foretell the fall of Mogreth, and the rise of a great human empire in its wake. Frog-folk are also considered to be the most holy children of the Outer Beings. Naturally, the Way is considered blasphemy, and anyone found to be a believer is executed. Some outsiders who know of this faith also call it the Cult of the Frog.

The World Cult
This forbidden cult is dedicated to Isshuth (Protius), Iruzass (Ixion), and Ssarthanna (Ordana), as embodiments of water, sky, earth, and all living things – in short, the world. Many slaves have turned to this faith as a means of spiritually sustaining themselves, but some troglodytes and lower-caste lizard men have also secretly embraced it. A core notion of the cult is that the works of the sorcerer kings have harmed the world itself, and the day shall come when all shall be restored to its proper balance. One former high priest of the Faith roams Mogreth, quietly performing miracles and bringing more converts to the cause.
Last edited by Seer of Yhog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:38 pm

Chimpman wrote:I really like the feeling that you are building up here Geoff - the description of Isshum is the stuff that nightmares are made out of, and the bit about the prophecy of it being washed away is a nice touch. The eight fingered thing also fits in nicely with the lizards... I can start to see how they think. Very cold. Very reptilian ;).


That's what I was aiming for. Mogreth is a nasty place, but it's not evil in the black hat/comical way. Its rulers really are inhuman, and they view their slaves the way many people look at livestock. What they do to their slaves is done with the intent of maximising their output. You can't cut off a slave's arm to mark them as property - that would make them useless - but the loss of two fingers is inconsequential to their minds, and the palms are a convenient place for brands. That way, you know that a person is a slave, and who they belong to. Brutal, unsentimental efficiency. About a third of urban slaves die before their first year is out, half within three. Due to the conditions, few slaves live to old age. Just to give you an impression of how many slaves Mogreth needs to take in per year to maintain its stock...

Chimpman wrote:As for slaves, I'm trying to think what kind the dwarves would come across - Antalians, elves, and giants from the north. Elves and giants again possibly from the Dawn Lands. Neathar and elves (those that broke off from Ilsundal's migration) to the west, and perhaps also Oltec or Azcan. I'm sure that the occasional unlucky (as in they didn't sell out their rivals first) dwarf or gnome would find their way to Isshum as well.


That sounds about right to me. Humans of all ethnicities would be the most common stock, followed by the highly desired giants (for their strength). Due to their magical talents and other abilities, elven slaves would be considered problematic. Very useful (and expensive), but also unpredictable as common labourers. Many elves wound up in the labs as a result. The sorcerer kings have probably tried to breed a desirable human slave race, too.

Chimpman wrote:We may be going in the same direction here, but the view I get of Taymor is that they might offer locals assistance from their current oppressors, only to step in as the new tyrants once the old are overthrown. At least that would be their plan. How do you see their stance on slavery? I can buy that they would not sell their own people, but would they buy slaves to send back to their masters at home? Everyone's got to eat after all.


IMO, the Taymorans stridently oppose Mogrethian slavery, but aggressively support their own system of indentured servitude (not the same thing at all, they would say). They probably have some sympathy for the plight of the slaves, if only because the brutal system under which they live could depopulate large parts of southern Brun, thereby depriving them of nourishment over the longer term. I can definitely see Taymoran factors buying slaves at the grand market of Isshum, and then shipping them to their masters. After all, who cares what happens to an Antalian barbarian? He should be grateful he didn't end up in the arena...

Also, the cultivated notion of Taymor as protector of humanity might be useful in inciting slave revolts in Mogreth (they do happen). Those that happen near the border offer an excuse to invade - for the protection of the slaves, of course.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:56 pm

I imagine that castoffs from the horde of Urzud would find their way to Mogreth, too. Well, actually we know they do, given what Chimpman wrote in his work on the Shimmering Lands. Humanoids, being what they are, are considered the least valuable slaves, due to their chaotic and willful nattures. They would be assigned the most dangerous and degrading jobs of all - mining, cleaning out sewers, arena monster and animal handling, etc.

EDIT: Races updated to account for this.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:01 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Due to their magical talents and other abilities, elven slaves would be considered problematic. Very useful (and expensive), but also unpredictable as common labourers. Many elves wound up in the labs as a result.

I imagine that seeing a magic wielding elf in the gladiatorial pits might be fairly exciting as well (as long as the magic can be contained). Perhaps often kept as a main attraction?

Elvesss... Gamesss... :mrgreen:

Just out of curiosity, what kinds of monsters would the lizardmen keep around for entertainment?
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