Mogreth

Rebuilding the world in the wake of the Great Rain of Fire.

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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:14 pm

Havard wrote:Love the illustration Geoff! We need more of that stuff :)


:cool:

Thanks! Now I'll get to work drawing a Mogrethian soldier or two.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:23 pm

Interesting article on the falcata, which is basically the Mogrethian sword. I'll be considering the info when I develop weapon mastery rules for it.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Hugin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:14 pm

That was an interesting little article. Thanks for linking it. (There goes all my free time for the day - back to work. :( )
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Havard » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:23 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Interesting article on the falcata, which is basically the Mogrethian sword. I'll be considering the info when I develop weapon mastery rules for it.


Things like this really helps in visualizing the setting. Also, the falcata looks pretty cool :)

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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:30 pm

Thanks! I may use the image as the basis for a drawing, as the Mogrethian hilt would encircle the fingers completely to make a loop (which could conceivably be used to punch someone awkwardly).
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu May 17, 2012 2:44 pm

Now for some thoughts on designing a PC race...

Originally, I had been hoping to use the Malpheggi Lizard Man - either in full or in large part - to create the Mogrethian Lizard Man PC race for the Gaz. However, as I've been preparing for my event at CanGames, and designing a Mogrethian PC for the party, I've come to the realisation that this isn't going to be an option.

For example, Malpheggi Lizard Men are a class unto themselves (as per standard OD&D rules), capable of reaching 12th level (1d8 hit points/level), with options to become shamans (6th level) or wokani (4th level). For attribute mods they have +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity. They save as clerics. They can swim at 120' (40'), and can breathe underwater. They don't wear armour, but have a natural AC of 5 (and can use shields).

Mogrethian lizard men, by contrast, are capable of attaining very high levels in the magic user, cleric, and fighter classes. This is due to the fact that they were the last holdout of the reptilian era, when lizard men and their cousins were the dominant species and occupied the same niche that humans do today. Their armies do wear partial armour, and while they can swim very well, they can't breathe underwater (though they can hold their breath longer than any human can).

As I am envisioning things now, Mogrethian lizard men will be a race, with players having the option of choosing a class (much like humans). Options will likely be fighter, magic user, and cleric (non-OB) - all going up to 36th level. Thievery and general skullduggery exists in Mogreth, but whether this will translate into a full thief class option I'm not sure. I want to make these guys more than humans in scaly suits. Because they are civilised, and rely on social differentiation to get things done (i.e., slaves and servants to do the grunt work), a bonus of +2 to Strength isn't needed. I may have a +1/-1 attribute modifier in there somewhere, though - perhaps a +1 to Intelligence because scheming is a national pastime (they have a knack for sussing out situations and figuring out who's the top dog, who's vulnerable, and plugging that info into a plot to advance themselves), and a -1 to Charisma because they hold other races in contempt (if the PC is high-caste, this penalty would apply to lower-caste lizard men, too).

Because they aren't as big and tough as their Malpheggi cousins, their hides aren't as thick, either (natural AC of 7). They would still use shields, and their partial metal armour would give them an AC of 4 or 5. As above, they can hold their breath for a long time underwater (Con score in minutes).

More thoughts to come....
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Thu May 17, 2012 4:58 pm

I like those thoughts GG. I do find it strange that the Malpheggi are listed as fully aquatic (aka they can "breath" underwater) - that seems to go against the grain of what it means to be a lizard. You would think that information could have repercussions on the outer world as well since the remnants of the Malpheggi still exist in Ierendi/Darokin/The Shires. Anyway, I agree with you that Mogrethians should not be fully aquatic.

Another thing to keep in mind while you develop the Mogrethian lizardman race is how they will interact with the other races of Mogreth. There are the frogfolk (which I believe you said are detailed in one of the GazF products) as well as the troglodytes, both of which should also have a special place in Mogreth society. For example perhaps the frogfolk take on the role of thieves/halflings (and OB clerics), while trogs take on the role of fighters (or maybe fill the role of dwarves). Unfortunately I've been firmly entrenched in the 3E camp for a while, so switching over to BECMI race building will take some effort for me.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu May 17, 2012 5:33 pm

Before I respond to John's thoughts, I'll share a link to the latest GoogleDocs upload - this is the weapon mastery chart for the falcata (1- and 2-handed), plus the gorcaranath (Lhomarrian version of the chakram).
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu May 17, 2012 6:58 pm

Chimpman wrote:Another thing to keep in mind while you develop the Mogrethian lizardman race is how they will interact with the other races of Mogreth. There are the frogfolk (which I believe you said are detailed in one of the GazF products) as well as the troglodytes, both of which should also have a special place in Mogreth society. For example perhaps the frogfolk take on the role of thieves/halflings (and OB clerics), while trogs take on the role of fighters (or maybe fill the role of dwarves).


I like that idea.

So we could have frogfolk (detailled in Gaz F3) filling in the role of thieves and clerics (max level), lizard men would be the best magic-users (ditto), and trogs as fighters. Still, a player could have a frogfolk fighter, but there would be attribute mods and other factors (level limitations) that would make things a bit more difficult for them - but if that's what they want to play, well, should the DM really stop them? ;)

Races and Classes (Max Level) - a thought

Lizard Man: F15, MU 36, C 8, T 8
Troglodyte: F36, MU 8, C 10, T 15
Frogfolk: F8, MU 5, C 36, T 36

Naturally, players would probably gravitate towards the class best suited to the race, but as I said this would leave the option open for characters to develop in other ways. Characters reaching a level limit (before 36th) would still receive a skill point per 100,000 XP
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Thu May 17, 2012 8:41 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Races and Classes (Max Level) - a thought

Lizard Man: F15, MU 36, C 8, T 8
Troglodyte: F36, MU 8, C 10, T 15
Frogfolk: F8, MU 5, C 36, T 36

Naturally, players would probably gravitate towards the class best suited to the race, but as I said this would leave the option open for characters to develop in other ways. Characters reaching a level limit (before 36th) would still receive a skill point per 100,000 XP

I like that idea. I have a question about the mechanics though (I just can't remember how the level capping works)... take a level 5 Frogfolk MU (the highest level it can attain). What is that character's max hit points?

Also, wasn't there some mechanic for demi-humans to keep advancing past their level caps (can't remember what this was called). Would the same apply to these races?
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu May 17, 2012 9:14 pm

Good question on hit points. I could base them on race (using the warrior-elf from the HW boxed set as a model). Perhaps GAZ10 can shed light on this. Either way, a level 5 frogfolk MU would top out at [(5d4) + (CON bonus/level)(5)] if based on class, or [(5d6) + (CON bonus/level)(5)] if based on race - so either 35 or 45 hit points. Not too tough, but then again an MU shouldn't be wading into battle, and frogfolk have other useful racial abilities. It would be a challenging PC to keep alive - but doable.

The RC has a mechanism to guide demihuman PCs past level limits - this could be consulted as well.

More thoughts on this are welcome, because now it looks like the Mogreth Gaz, when finished, will have three sort-of-new PC races, maybe a new class, and other goodies.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:20 pm

A new person is joining my campaign, which has required me to work out my version of the character creation rules for lizard men. Convenient.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Cthulhudrew » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:33 pm

As far as race/class, there is also a precedent in the Rakasta and Lupins (from Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #180 or 181; I forget which). Basically, he allowed for both races to adopt classes as per the human standard (F/MU/C/T), but they took an XP penalty initially, to accomodate their additional abilities; effectively, they started out at something like -1,200 XP before they would adopt their first class level, and then proceeded as normal from then on.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:59 pm

That's a good idea. I'll check that out - thanks!
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:52 pm

I'm going to try to ramp this up again. Hopefully I'll be posting something new here soon. The word file containing most of what I've posted here is roughly 22,000 words long (!)

My revamped Lizard Man class seems to be working quite well. The player is happy with it at any rate, and it doesn't seem to affect game balance. Interestingly enough, one of my other players remarked during a session (after Setek the Lizard Man trashed a few opponents in combat), "Man, I should play one of those next time I make a character."
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:49 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:I'm going to try to ramp this up again. Hopefully I'll be posting something new here soon. The word file containing most of what I've posted here is roughly 22,000 words long (!)

:D Can't wait! I'm nearly done with the DM Gaz for the Shimmering Lands. Finishing touches on a couple of chapters, some clean up, a couple of maps need to get finished, and of course I'd love to add some more artwork. So... still lots to get done, but I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. ;)
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:55 pm

Can't wait to see it - especially to give me cues on layout, look and feel, etc.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:39 am

Ok... so speaking of getting back into the swing of things, are there any changes/additions that you would like made to the Mogreth map? As I'm reviewing my own work I'm finding little pieces here and there on the map that needs revision. Anyway, let me know either here or in the other thread.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:02 pm

Yeah...good point. I'll review this and hopefully (cross fingers) get back to you asap.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:12 pm

Pulling this back up to answer a question Sturm sent to me regarding possible Mogrethian expansion into Taymoran/Grondheim/Intua lands - specifically the location labeled as Krystallac on the Grondheim maps (it may also appear on some of the others... unless I haven't uploaded the latest versions yet) which will one day become the location of Koskatep.

I'm speculating that smaller groups of Mogrethians (possibly rogue elements or small military expeditions) could have reached that far anytime between BC 3000 and BC 2000 (when Mogreth is destroyed).

A larger group of lizards, may have colonized the area after BC 2000, in an attempt to rebuild their civilization... possibly they occupied Koskatep in a larger force.

What are your thoughts on a the timeline for a lizard/Mogreth occupation of Koskatep Seer?
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Sturm » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:42 am

Chimpman wrote:A larger group of lizards, may have colonized the area after BC 2000, in an attempt to rebuild their civilization... possibly they occupied Koskatep in a larger force.


Sounds reasonable to me, more so as in Karameikos official products there are still many lizardmen and trogs around.. but i'll wait for the Seer opinion about this..
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:16 pm

Chimpman wrote:What are your thoughts on a the timeline for a lizard/Mogreth occupation of Koskatep Seer?


This sounds like a reasonable idea to me. It's highly probable that expeditions were sent out repeatedly, mainly to probe outlying regions but also if possible to establish one or more strongholds. Mogreth would have had enough going on in the Frontierlands, its own backyard in the northwest (the human puppet states), and its IoD slave colonies to make any forays into Grondheim an infrequent thing at best.

However, I've established that the sorcerer kings were quite knowledgeable, and a number of them were pretty strategic thinkers (see: Theliir, post-BC 2000 survival of). I think it's reasonable to assume either a group was sent out by a forward-thinking sorcerer king to found a new colony, or for a band of refugees to take it over. I'll need to read more about Kaskatep.
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Sturm » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:29 am

My article on Koskatep for the Threshold magazine is almost done and you can see the draft in the Mystara fanzine forum..
In particular, you and Chimpman should check the timeline and tell me if it could fit with your ideas..
Thanks!
(Edit: public link removed as requested by Chimpman)
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Chimpman » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:25 pm

Sturm, We should remove the link from here unless the article is set up only for certain users (I suspect anyone who has the link can see it) since it is still in editing phase and this thread is in a public forum. Sending the link in a PM would be better. Don't want to spoil any surprises for folks ;)

[unfortunately I don't have mod powers in this forum - strange - or I would do it myself.]
Sturm wrote:My article on Koskatep for the Threshold magazine is almost done and you can see the draft here:
----------
In particular, you and Chimpman should check the timeline and tell me if it could fit with your ideas..
Thanks!
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Re: Mogreth

Postby Seer of Yhog » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:17 pm

I'll check this out and see what I can work with, Sturm. I've got a few shorter-term irons in the fire right now.
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