Mogreth

Rebuilding the world in the wake of the Great Rain of Fire.

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:30 pm

More NPCs added to the post above. I'll keep adding them there for ease of finding them.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Hugin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:06 pm

Interesting stuff. I think the biggest thing I'm taking from this is a possible reason for the Alasiyan Basin's harsh environment; a legacy of the Carnifex. If the Carnifex really did create, or aid in the creating, of a swamp micro-climate in the polar region (well inside the arctic circle), this could have been done by making to far warmer than nature would have it.

Now, once the pole was shifted and this micro-climate warmed up as the surrounding environment went from arctic to temperate (several centuries after the GRoF due the resulting Ice Age), the magic still in the land caused this one-time swamp to begin to get hotter and dry up. This would have been a slow process as well, just like it was for the surrounding regions.

As for Mogreth's decline we have a situation where things are getting warmer and warmer while the highest places begin to dry up, effectively shrinking the swamplands. They know the end is coming but then they are wiped out by whatever you end up saying. But, the thing is we have a mechanism to help explain why this area is hotter than it's neighbours.

Talk about mental ramblings, there you go!

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:12 pm

Sounds like we have a winner, then!
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Zendrolion » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:45 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:Elsewhere in our forum I postulated how, in light of more recent discussions that indicated that Ylaruam would have been sub-arctic (or arctic) prior to 3000 BC, such a culture of lizard men could only exist (assuming they weren't based on the tuatara, which can survive in cold climates) through magic. The power required to create a micro-climate would have to be considerable, and lizard men in the Gaz era do not generally have that capability. Could they have had it before? Certainly. But, where could they have learned it? ...

The easiest (and from a storyline perspective, the most interesting and consistent with respect to my other work) explanation would be that a band of Carnifex sorcerers sought refuge in the north, millennia ago, to escape the fate of their colleagues elsewhere in the world.
This solution seems to be the right one, and the only one available besides, if one'd like to keep the "new" precataclysmic map done by LoZompatore. In fact, years ago we had already thought about the Carnifex when we wondered about the origin of the "arctic" realm of Ylaruam lizardmen.

Think about it: a decadent domain of alien beings (the lizardmen), set between the ice-covered mountains and icebergs of the artic climate. Outside, freezing death; within it, lush valleys and swamps... WEIRD! 8-)
A sort of lost valley to the outside peoples...
Seer of Yhog wrote:
Zendrolion wrote:About Mogreth proper, I think the Nithians and other human migrations should be allowed to pass through the Ylaruam region around BC 2000. Actually, I had the Nithians born in Ylaruam around BC 2000 by the intermarriage of an Azcan-descended population (I called these the Ne-Teque), and a Neathar-descended population just arrived from the Isle of Dawn. In fact, the fact that the Nithians are an Oltec-Neathar halfblood race is canonic.
IIRC, we worked under a similar assumption, and Mogreth's importation of slaves effectively brings about the Nithians - and by extension the Alasiyans.
It's a viable solution to have Nithians brought in from the IoD by lizardmen. However, we know (HW) that the Nithians start to build an agricoltural civilization centered on the River Nithia in BC 2000-1750. Does this means that already by BC 2000 Mogreth had lost control of many of its domains, who were occupied by former Nithian slaves?

Myself, I think a slow decline of the lizardmen that gradually leaves place for the rising civilization of the freed humans is more fitting with canon statements about the rise of the Nithian culture, than a war of liberation from the lizardmen empire. Your thoughts?
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:43 pm

Zendrolion wrote:Think about it: a decadent domain of alien beings (the lizardmen), set between the ice-covered mountains and icebergs of the artic climate. Outside, freezing death; within it, lush valleys and swamps... WEIRD! 8-)
A sort of lost valley to the outside peoples...
Throw in awesome architecture, blasphemous idols, and evil rituals, and it would be a perfect vacation spot – sign me up!! This is pretty much how I envisioned the First Empire – an oasis of tropical warmth surrounded by arctic temperatures, with an intermediate zone filled with storms, half-frozen bogs, and nasty monsters bred by the Carnifex to keep foreigners out. Anyone who makes it through all that would probably never make it back, which is why I’m starting the think that Blackmoor might not even have discovered Mogreth until pretty late into the technomantic period (i.e., found via magical GPS satellites, or something similar?). For all we know, the Carnifex might even have acquired some technomantic devices and modified them for their own purposes – machines infused with the power of the Outer Beings. Nasty thought.
Zendrolion wrote:It's a viable solution to have Nithians brought in from the IoD by lizardmen. However, we know (HW) that the Nithians start to build an agricoltural civilization centered on the River Nithia in BC 2000-1750. Does this means that already by BC 2000 Mogreth had lost control of many of its domains, who were occupied by former Nithian slaves?
This is where details haven’t been nailed down, so I’m open to ideas. Is the timeframe cited above official? If so, we can push the founding of the agricultural civilisation to around 1800-1900 BC. I would prefer a “civilisational changeover” starting around BC 2000 or so. Mogreth, in 2300 BC, is at the height of its power, just before the final decline sets in. Already, the first signs of decay have been shown (focus on entertainment, decadent parties, ruthless crackdowns on dissent, spread of competing faiths, increasing political infighting, increasing abandonment of the Faith), and other powers are on the rise. Attempt to expand and.or colonise are not bearing fruit, and a significant portion of the empire’s military resources are being squandered in the Frontier, fighting a war that cannot be won.

Taymor may be on the verge of shedding its vampiric influences, but even so it displays a vitality that ancient Mogreth lacks. The only thing keeping the Taymorans in check is Mogreth’s magical advantage, and centralised structure. I’m trying to present Mogreth as the last holdout of the ancient reptilian empires, the last gasp before the mammalian species dominate fully.

So, what I envision happening is between BC 2200-2000, the political divisions deepen, and other faiths spread further. Couple this with a rising slave population, and conditions are ideal for a revolt confined to several hot zones. At first they are put down brutally (and the slaves replaced), but at the same time Taymor (perhaps unified for a time under a charismatic king) stages a major offensive. Theliir takes the brunt of it, and the counterattack gets mired in infighting. With its armies depleted, elements in Mogrethian society point to the situation and stage a revolt of their own, hoping to sweep aside the sorcerer-kings. One or more might be killed, creating free cities. The rest of the empire musters its forces to reassert control, and the rebel cities are forced to make a deal with the restive slave populations to survive – fight with us and you will be free. Seeing their options as fighting and maybe becoming free, and not fighting and getting slaughtered, most of the slaves agree; although some take the opportunity to strike at their erstwhile allies. Many of the rebellions are crushed, but some show enough spirit to attract the Immortals’ attention. One or more rebel communities get whisked to the HW (to start the Third Empire), but, just when the last battle is about to be joined, the great glacial lake in the Shimmering Lands bursts, sweeping away much of Mogreth. With the interior destroyed and Isshum underwater, Ssugath, Theliir, and Teshos are the only remainders. The proto-Nithians are now the most numerous group, with small populations of lizard men and troglodytes. The frog folk who survived likely fled into the Sea of Dawn and moved elsewhere.

During the following decades, the Nithians actively distanced themselves from the only society they knew (but still maintained some elements, as discussed elsewhere). The bad blood between lizardfolk and humans could not be entirely overcome, and before long the remaining lizard men and trogs withdrew to the wilderness to start over – but without the resources they didn’t get very far.

Due to its defensive location and fortifications, Theliir might have survived as a lone reminder of old Mogreth for another few centuries, and may even have weathered the destruction of the BC 1700s in some form. It would have been a Nithian city by BC 1000, however. Perhaps the lizard men who lived there fled west, into modern Thyatis?
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Hugin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:51 pm

Zendrolion wrote:It's a viable solution to have Nithians brought in from the IoD by lizardmen. However, we know (HW) that the Nithians start to build an agricoltural civilization centered on the River Nithia in BC 2000-1750. Does this means that already by BC 2000 Mogreth had lost control of many of its domains, who were occupied by former Nithian slaves?

Myself, I think a slow decline of the lizardmen that gradually leaves place for the rising civilization of the freed humans is more fitting with canon statements about the rise of the Nithian culture, than a war of liberation from the lizardmen empire. Your thoughts?
If you were to go with my theory above about the gradual warming and drying of the area as the whole region warms up, this could leave open a situation where the humans begin claiming the drier high-grounds while the lizardmen deal with shrinking swamplands.

I was reading the HW book last night about the Malpheggi lizardmen and how they died off from a disease carrying insect brought by the Nithians. This leads to the question, "Why would these lizardmen be killed off by it over several centuries when the Ylaruam lizardmen were completely unaffected?"

Well, maybe they were. If we have Mogreth's practice of taking human slaves contained solely within the boundaries of the continent, they could build up a reasonable slave population. Then, for whatever reason (be it greed for more slaves, wanting other sources of humans due to trade with continental humans, etc) they begin taking slaves from the Isle of Dawn, and this proves fatal. Along with these Nithian slaves comes there doom in the form of a small parasitic insect. This could be the cause of Mogreth's vanishing. The Immortals would not have preserved them simply because there was a flourishing lizardmen culture in Ierendi (for the time being).

What do you think, Geoff?

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:08 pm

HW wrote:BC 2000-1001: The Rise of Nithia; the Glantrian Catastrophe. Middle Bronze to Middle Iron Ages
pg 12

BC 2000-1750: An agricultural settlement flourishes along the River Nithia. It swiftly becomes the seat of a fast-growing culture.
Tribal humans, swarthy descendants of Oltec and Neathar tribes, also settle in the coastal and island lowlands of the Northern Reaches, in the Ethengar Steppes.
The Beastmen have now evolved into the modern species of orcs, goblins, ogres, giants, and trolls.
Antalian colonists migrate southward into the lands later to be called the Northern Reaches.
pg 12
The statement Zendrolion refers to is indeed canon, however I'd point out that such a reference leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Also (as we have seen elsewhere) many timeline events can (and should) be taken more as overviews. This one is another good example IMO. BC 2000 to BC 1750 is a lot of time, 250 years... more than enough time for a civilization to rise.

My own interpretation would be that the "Nithia" mentioned in BC 2000 probably would not be a fully formed nation. We can go a lot of ways with this, but so far based on Geoff's last post, I don't see any direct discrepancies with the above references from the HW boxed set.

We should probably start a new thread specifically for discussing this time period from a GazH perspective.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:16 pm

Hugin wrote:If you were to go with my theory above about the gradual warming and drying of the area as the whole region warms up, this could leave open a situation where the humans begin claiming the drier high-grounds while the lizardmen deal with shrinking swamplands.
This sounds good to me as well. Again I think you can have both things - a slow decline of lizardmen society, and a violent (adventure filled) end to their nation. :twisted:
Hugin wrote:I was reading the HW book last night about the Malpheggi lizardmen and how they died off from a disease carrying insect brought by the Nithians. This leads to the question, "Why would these lizardmen be killed off by it over several centuries when the Ylaruam lizardmen were completely unaffected?"
One way is that the disease itself was not around until much later in the KW history. I postulate one cause in my Treatise on Lycanthropy, although that deviates from strict canon in several ways.
Hugin wrote:Well, maybe they were. If we have Mogreth's practice of taking human slaves contained solely within the boundaries of the continent, they could build up a reasonable slave population. Then, for whatever reason (be it greed for more slaves, wanting other sources of humans due to trade with continental humans, etc) they begin taking slaves from the Isle of Dawn, and this proves fatal. Along with these Nithian slaves comes there doom in the form of a small parasitic insect. This could be the cause of Mogreth's vanishing. The Immortals would not have preserved them simply because there was a flourishing lizardmen culture in Ierendi (for the time being).
I won't speak for Geoff, but IMO these two cultures (Mogreth and Malpheggi) are not the same. I think that it's likely that Malpheggi was established by lizards fleeing from Mogreth's destruction. They would have established a community further west (very close to Taymoran territory) since there are several canon references to lizardmen being stranded on the newly formed Ierendi Isles.

So I think these are two different events. 1) Destruction of Mogreth (closer to the BC 2000) date, and 2) Destruction of Malpheggi due to disease (which has to happen sometime after the BC 1750 cataclysm. Note: any lizardman remnant populations in or near Nithia would suffer the same fate.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Zendrolion » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:42 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:This is where details haven’t been nailed down, so I’m open to ideas. Is the timeframe cited above official? If so, we can push the founding of the agricultural civilisation to around 1800-1900 BC. I would prefer a “civilisational changeover” starting around BC 2000 or so.
I agree with this take about Mogreth-Nithia chronological relationship. See also my comment on Chimp's quote of the HW set timeline, below.

About the Dawners moving to the IoD around BC 2000, this isn't a canonical date of course, but it'd be difficult to have them arrive later (there are already Antalians in the Northern Reaches, and Nithians south of them). Moreover, if the Ostland landbridge collapses in BC 2000, that date is the last chance for the Dawners to get on the IoD...
And having them coming to the IoD any sooner than BC 2000 would be difficult as well for me, becouse ethnography-wise their cultural-linguistic branch is linked with that of the early Wendarian humans (not the Antalians, who came later), together with that of a Neathar-descended population of early Ethengar: in fact, I had them all parts of the same migration, stopping first in Genalleth, then in Ethengar, and finally crossing the Sea of Dawn to te IoD.

But I'm going off-topic. More about all this when I'll post my revised ethnography. :twisted:
Seer of Yhog wrote:So, what I envision happening is between BC 2200-2000, the political divisions deepen, and other faiths spread further. Couple this with a rising slave population, and conditions are ideal for a revolt confined to several hot zones.
...
During the following decades, the Nithians actively distanced themselves from the only society they knew (but still maintained some elements, as discussed elsewhere). The bad blood between lizardfolk and humans could not be entirely overcome, and before long the remaining lizard men and trogs withdrew to the wilderness to start over – but without the resources they didn’t get very far.
Interesting outline, I like it. :)
Hugin wrote:If we have Mogreth's practice of taking human slaves contained solely within the boundaries of the continent, they could build up a reasonable slave population. Then, for whatever reason (be it greed for more slaves, wanting other sources of humans due to trade with continental humans, etc) they begin taking slaves from the Isle of Dawn, and this proves fatal. Along with these Nithian slaves comes there doom in the form of a small parasitic insect. This could be the cause of Mogreth's vanishing. The Immortals would not have preserved them simply because there was a flourishing lizardmen culture in Ierendi (for the time being).
But... this is a GREAT idea! 8-) 8-) 8-)
I love when someone manages to tie lonely elements of canon like this! :)

Depending on Geoff's intentions about the end of Mogreth, at least the vermin-caused plague could well used as a factor (even if not the only one) of the lizardmen's demise.
Chimpman wrote:
HW wrote:BC 2000-1750: An agricultural settlement flourishes along the River Nithia. It swiftly becomes the seat of a fast-growing culture.
The statement Zendrolion refers to is indeed canon, however I'd point out that such a reference leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Also (as we have seen elsewhere) many timeline events can (and should) be taken more as overviews. This one is another good example IMO. BC 2000 to BC 1750 is a lot of time, 250 years... more than enough time for a civilization to rise.
Indeed. To me this means:
BC 2000: An agricoltural settlement is born along the River Nithia.
BC 1750: It has become the seat of a fast-growing culture.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Hugin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:42 pm

Chimpman wrote:This sounds good to me as well. Again I think you can have both things - a slow decline of lizardmen society, and a violent (adventure filled) end to their nation. :twisted:
Absolutely. My intention wasn't to exclude a violent end but rather suggest the end was already coming and inevitable. This calamity that wipes out Mogreth should be limited to a scale that allows the Nithian peoples to survive and begin to develop their culture.
One way is that the disease itself was not around until much later in the KW history. I postulate one cause in my Treatise on Lycanthropy, although that deviates from strict canon in several ways.
As much as works like this are valid (and even used in campaigns myself), for purposes of the GazH project we need to avoid conflicting with canon as much as canon itself allows. Now with that said, it doesn't mean we can't explore deeper and beyond what canon spells out for us, and that is actually one of the purposes of this project.
I won't speak for Geoff, but IMO these two cultures (Mogreth and Malpheggi) are not the same.
Oh ya, they are very different, but the 'Immortals that be' considered the Mogreth culture a 'tainted' lizardmen culture (in my view).
I think that it's likely that Malpheggi was established by lizards fleeing from Mogreth's destruction. They would have established a community further west (very close to Taymoran territory) since there are several canon references to lizardmen being stranded on the newly formed Ierendi Isles.
This is perhaps the best way to get the original lizardmen over to Melpheggi. I have been thinking about that problem recently and didn't come up with anything I felt was 'right'. Your suggestion sounds good and I'd also like to look at what influences brought that exodus and change of philosophies. Looking over my notes on Immortals, I'm wondering if Ka was behind this shift in beliefs, finally regaining a foothold within lizardmen society. There's some thoughts anyway.
So I think these are two different events. 1) Destruction of Mogreth (closer to the BC 2000) date, and 2) Destruction of Malpheggi due to disease (which has to happen sometime after the BC 1750 cataclysm. Note: any lizardman remnant populations in or near Nithia would suffer the same fate.
Yep, agreed.

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Hugin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:49 pm

Zendrolion wrote:But I'm going off-topic. More about all this when I'll post my revised ethnography. :twisted:
Wait :!:

If you're going through all that why not do it with some other people helping you and making it part of the GazH project :?:

I mean, if you want to that is. 8-)

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:49 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Hugin wrote:If you were to go with my theory above about the gradual warming and drying of the area as the whole region warms up, this could leave open a situation where the humans begin claiming the drier high-grounds while the lizardmen deal with shrinking swamplands.
This sounds good to me as well. Again I think you can have both things - a slow decline of lizardmen society, and a violent (adventure filled) end to their nation. :twisted:
Agreed. Without the drying effect and the catastrophe, Mogreth would have collapsed anyway for societal reasons, but might have lasted until BC 1500 or so. The result would probably have been 4-5 kingdoms, a couple of which might have turned out well in the end. Unfortunately, the Carnifex never counted on the planet shifting on its axis in the future, so they basically condemned the region to a hot and dry fate. The whole thing might be fixed if someone can locate, and deactivate, the spell and/or artefact responsible for the effect. Success would mean the end of the Canolbarth forever, however.
Chimpman wrote:I won't speak for Geoff, but IMO these two cultures (Mogreth and Malpheggi) are not the same. I think that it's likely that Malpheggi was established by lizards fleeing from Mogreth's destruction. They would have established a community further west (very close to Taymoran territory) since there are several canon references to lizardmen being stranded on the newly formed Ierendi Isles.
Makes sense to me. Mogreth is unique because it was a "civilised" post-GRoF nation of reptiles, as well as a fading bridge to the ancient days of Primal Mystara. Various Immortals, but especially Ka, would probably want to preserve it in the HW, but the one thing holding them back would be the taint of OB worship. However, when the society was falling apart, the segements of Mogreth that venerated the Immortals tried to step forward, and the Immortals seized the opportunity, transporting a town or so of lizard men, trogs, frogfolk, and liberated slaves, to the HW.

I agree that the Ierendian lizard men would probably be descended from those who fled the collapse, or those who left the empire in previous centuries for various reasons.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:54 pm

Further thought...

We could use an intermediary map of the region, perhaps at BC 1200 or so, showing the progressive desertification from the Carnifex magic. The areas around the River Nithia and any tributaries (many of the latter gradually drying up) would be fertile (as per the HWNithia gaz map), with a rich delta, but the rest would be either bare hills, poor grazing land (eventually to become desert), rocky desert, or badlands. The true sands would come later.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:16 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:We could use an intermediary map of the region, perhaps at BC 1200 or so, showing the progressive desertification from the Carnifex magic. The areas around the River Nithia and any tributaries (many of the latter gradually drying up) would be fertile (as per the HWNithia gaz map), with a rich delta, but the rest would be either bare hills, poor grazing land (eventually to become desert), rocky desert, or badlands. The true sands would come later.
Agreed. Once we have the coastlines firmed up for each era in which there is significant change, we can go back and create any number of intermediate maps. I like the idea of showing the drying out of Ylaruam.

So with regard to the elvish magic, it becomes more an issue of the elves focusing the siphoned moisture into one single place (Canolbarth) and less about the elves actually stealing water directly from Ylaruam. The water was being removed in the first place... the elves just found a good use for it. That makes them less malicious and more pragmatic... which I think I like.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:07 pm

A few more NPCs added here.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:19 pm

Another great set of NPCs.
Seer of Yhog wrote:Itessh (NT, Wis 16): Itessh is a lower-caste troglodyte messenger in the city if Isshum. From sunup to sundown, she delivers messages and small packages for the middle and upper castes. Her travels take her all over the city, and as a result she knows it better than most. She pads her income by making deliveries for the criminal element, as well. She is short and squat, with grey and brown scale and red eyes.
Of course this one immediately makes me curious about the criminal underworld in Isshum. I'm sure it's a subject that could probably fill a tome all on its own.

... maybe a good topic for a few one page dungeons...?
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:49 pm

I think the criminal element would be thriving in Isshum, especially during the later period of the Second Empire. By then, the tastes of the elite would have become so decadent that there would be a market for just about anything. The Merchant Quarter would likely become a small city unto itself, with its own laws and traditions, kept alive by the upper classes' desire to sate their desires. By BC 2300, the first signs of this would probably be visible.

So, we're looking at thieves' guilds, (anti) slavery rings, drugs, trade in antiquities, espionage, and general corruption.

Definitely fodder for a one-page dungeon (or three) :D
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:54 pm

Another update - here and here. I think this about does it, but suggestions for other NPCs would be most welcome.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:59 pm

Cityfolk and Commoners

Dargassh (F6, Str 17): Dargassh is a middle-caste lizard man who oversees several farms around Ithkesh. He was once an officer in the army, but made a costly tactical error during a battle with Taymor. Dargassh’s family connections saved his life, but he was forced to retire to the interior in disgrace. He now works for an upper-caste lizard man, and takes delight in having his troglodyte assistants drive the slaves mercilessly. When the mood strikes him, he delivers some of the beatings himself, which often improves his normally sour mood. Dargassh is squat and muscular, with dull green scales and red eyes.

Felzassh (NLM, Int 17, Cha 16): Felzassh is an upper-caste lizard man whose family claims descent from a former sorcerer-king of Isshum. Blessed without siblings, Felzassh was taught by the best masters, and in conjunction with his auspicious background, slid into the bureaucracy and rose quickly. Now middle-aged, he is the senior advisor in the court of the First, second only to the sorcerer-kings themselves. He is loyal to the First, but wonders whether the infighting between the sorcerer-kings is truly serving Mogreth. Over private discussions with like-minded generals, he is developing a new blueprint for the nation, without the Anointed. Felzassh is of average build, with mottled grey and green scales and yellow eyes.

Khelssak (F4, Str 16): Khelssak is a hulking troglodyte sergeant in the Isshum city guard, who takes his duties very seriously. Not overly bright, Khelssak tends to interpret his orders literally, and has only risen to his current rank because of his usefulness in quelling uprisings. He has a very short temper, and is not above assaulting others – even those bearing a sorcerer-king’s plaque – if he thinks he is being insulted.

Itessh (NT, Wis 16): Itessh is a lower-caste troglodyte messenger in the city if Isshum. From sunup to sundown, she delivers messages and small packages for the middle and upper castes. Her travels take her all over the city, and as a result she knows it better than most. She pads her income by making deliveries for the criminal element, as well. She is short and squat, with grey and brown scales and red eyes.

Pijasiros of Tamoraz (NM, Int 14, Wis 16): Pijasiros has been a fixture of the Merchant Quarter of Isshum for more than 20 years. Originally employed by a prominent Taymoran trader, he struck out on his own at 16 and within three years owned one of the largest homes in the quarter. Officially, he leads the merchant community and trades in exotic foodstuffs and spices, but he also sells drugs to the elite, and is the ringleader of an anti-slavery ring. His motives for destroying Mogreth’s social order are not entirely altruistic – he and his key allies, including Felzassh, stand to make enormous fortunes by gaining control over local trade.

Hegryd (D4 Str 16, Con 14, AL L): A veteran of the slave trade for almost 30 years, Hegryd is an outcast even among the social misfits of the Shimmering Lands. He started his trade in the normal fashion, as an apprentice to a master in the Controllers Guild, and spent his early years in the frontiers of the north collecting elves, giants, and their ilk. Although successful, he eventually turned his skills toward the enslavement of his own kind, and now trades mostly in political prisoners and others that the Moadreg Elders would rather see disappear. After living in Isshum for more than ten years Hegryd has grown accustomed to the games there, and can often be found in the Arena following the progress of his latest sales.

Atarssh (F2, Str 15, Cha 14): Atarssh grew up in a rural community on the fringes of Mogreth, but went to Isshum as soon as she could. She enlisted in the army, but was discharged for dereliction of duty, and only avoided worse punishment through tenuous family connections. She has been bouncing from job to job ever since, never making much headway. Acutely aware of her lack of status, Atarssh would likely join an adventuring party to chart a new course in her life – preferably someplace far away. She makes friends easily, but is highly impulsive. She is tall for a lizardwoman (6’3”), with light green and grey scales and orange eyes.

Hrum’fri (NF, Int 16): Hrum’fri is an upper-caste frog-folk bureaucrat responsible for overseeing construction projects in Isshum. He is highly efficient, ruthless towards his colleagues and subordinates, obsequious towards his masters, and is an expert at concealing his true motives. He has entrenched himself so deeply into the bureaucracy that hardly anyone suspects that a considerable portion of the money allocated to the city is being diverted to a gnomish bank in the Shimmering Lands. Hrum’fri wears well-tailored robes of office that conceal his impressive girth. His bulbous eyes are deep yellow, and his skin is dark green with blue patches.

Torgald (F6, Str 17, Con 14): Torgald was a proud Antalian who commanded a large band of warriors on the northern borders of the Shimmering Lands, where he harassed slavers and sacked the more isolated strongholds. He was eventually captured and sent to the markets of Isshum, where he was bought by Felzassh. Appreciating Torgald’s strength, Felzassh has treated him well – on the understanding that he will kill whomever he is directed to. This has kept Torgald moderately submissive, but he has other plans should the opportunity present itself.

Ssethessh (F4, Cha 15): Ssethessh is a lizard man of modest origins who joined the army in order to improve his circumstances and see the world. His plans were dashed after a pitched battle with humanoid raiders, in which he lost an arm and an eye. Discharged with a modest pension for honourable service, Ssethessh set up an inn – The Nest – in Isshum’s Merchant Quarter. The Nest has since become the main clandestine information and goods exchange of Isshum, and hardly anything goes on there without Ssethessh’s knowledge or blessing. Having met people from all walks of life and of many races, he is willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt – moreso if they have coin, or useful information. Ssethessh is slightly portly for a lizard man, with dark green scales and an orange eye. After meeting an exotic traveller from the south, he has taken up smoking.

Suri (F2, Str 16, AL N): An Inti warrior, Suri served the Blind Fathers for nearly a decade. A captain in the Inti army, Suri led his troops from under the Great Plateau on campaigns of conquest against neighbouring lands until being captured on a raid that went horribly wrong. Now he toils under the searing light of day on a lizardman farm. Like many Inti captives, Suri's inner fire is hard to quench, and he still struggles against his scaly masters whenever given the opportunity. He has secreted away enough tools and supplies to make his escape, and may be willing to aid any other competent prisoners in their own attempts.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:24 pm

This doesn't really belong in the Mogreth map thread, so I'll post it here - a taste of what I've developed for ther Carnifex numbering system, and what it can do:

azh=1

yhol=4

ervesh-kum=25

tsolvesh-khet=78

yholveshek orhvesh-zhek=436

khetvesham erveshekvesh-azh=8,211

sskatveshuss-sskat sskatvesheksskatvesh-sskat=99,999

azh rh’er=½

azh rh’yhol=¼
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:58 pm

This post is relevant to the history of Mogreth.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:42 pm

Copied over from the other thread (not in order):
Seer of Yhog wrote:Over the following decades, they indoctrinated the nearest frogfolk communities, teaching them about their (heavily reinterpreted) past, and converting them to the Faith. These frogfolk then took the message to other communities, and OB-worship spread like fungus. Some frogfolk went to Mogreth to serve the empire. The doctrine taught at the time was that the frogfolk had always been loyal subjects of the Carnifex, united in faith with their masters and inheritors of a great empire, which they would one day help rebuild. While this reinvigorated the race, there were some who questioned it.
:twisted: The very last sentence does the trick! I love it. So now we start to see some of the intrigue that is possible within the nation of Mogreth itself.
Seer of Yhog wrote:Spies from the First Empire were scouring the world for relics of old - anything that would give them an edge over Blackmoor and its allies. While they didn't find Carnifex relics, they did find the ruins of a Hluth-gur city on the northern coast of Davania. There, they found art depicting frogfolk waging war, building, sailing over the oceans, and sacrificing their victims to the Outer Beings. They were shocked by the discovery, but quickly saw an opportunity. They were aware of the frogfolk, but had considered them a minor race. Now, armed with artefacts from the city (including a collection of tablets), they returned to Mogreth, studied them, and put them to use.
When and where did Mogreth find Hluth-gur? I'm assuming that it must have been quite some time before the BC 2300 setting period, since by then frogfolk are an integrated part of Mogreth society. Is the city still standing, and is it under Mogreth's control? Biasically I guess what I'm asking is what is the city's status in BC 2300. Since it is on N Davania, do the kopru play any role? Based on Sharon's description of the kopru (very lawful and orderly) I can't see them succumbing to OB worship, but perhaps they serve as some form of antagonists to those in the city?

So many questions ;)
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:02 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Seer of Yhog wrote:Over the following decades, they indoctrinated the nearest frogfolk communities, teaching them about their (heavily reinterpreted) past, and converting them to the Faith. These frogfolk then took the message to other communities, and OB-worship spread like fungus. Some frogfolk went to Mogreth to serve the empire. The doctrine taught at the time was that the frogfolk had always been loyal subjects of the Carnifex, united in faith with their masters and inheritors of a great empire, which they would one day help rebuild. While this reinvigorated the race, there were some who questioned it.
:twisted: The very last sentence does the trick! I love it. So now we start to see some of the intrigue that is possible within the nation of Mogreth itself.
Exactly. The frogfolk who questioned the official line were the founders of the Way of Irrub. Some of them gained access to the tablets that had been found in Davania all those years before, and read them for themselves. There, in plain language, was part of the chronicles of Y'ruth and the Hluth-gur. They immediately realised that the Carnifex had not been telling them the truth, and that there was a time when the frogfolk really did rule the world. They started sharing this knowledge with others, but the lizard men (who at the time managed day-to-day affairs for their masters, as well as a network of informers) found out about it, and proceeded to hunt down the ringleaders.

Many were caught and executed, but enough escaped to set up a secret organisation dedicated to spreading the truth. Unfortunately, the frogfolk hadn't read enough of the tablets (or the right ones) to give them the full story - so their view of Hluth-gur history, while more accurate than the official version, had several big holes in it. Thus, their interpretation has religious overtones, and Irrub the sage has been recast as a holy prophet of the Outer Beings who predicted the fall of Mogreth (although he was actually predicting the destruction of Y'ruth - kinda funny how that little error in interpretation proved prescient in the end :twisted: ). Needless to say, the Way of Irrub was, and continues to be, considered extremely heretical.

...But the sweetest fruits are the forbidden ones, and the Way is quite popular among the frogfolk - especially out in the delta, where few outsiders go.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:38 pm

Chimpman wrote:When and where did Mogreth find Hluth-gur? I'm assuming that it must have been quite some time before the BC 2300 setting period, since by then frogfolk are an integrated part of Mogreth society. Is the city still standing, and is it under Mogreth's control? Biasically I guess what I'm asking is what is the city's status in BC 2300. Since it is on N Davania, do the kopru play any role? Based on Sharon's description of the kopru (very lawful and orderly) I can't see them succumbing to OB worship, but perhaps they serve as some form of antagonists to those in the city?
The corruption of the modern frogfolk would have happened in the centuries just before the GRoF. The First Empire had suffered some reversals courtesy of Blackmoor and its allies, and its great lords knew that it was only a matter of time before they would have to admit that they would not rule the world again. This was the impetus for searching for the relics. After they recovered the relics from the city the lizard men returned home, confident that they could always go back if they needed to.

Unfortunately, the GRoF happened and the First Empire fell. The lizard man sorcerer kings of the Second Empire had more immediate problems to worry about, and so the lost city of the Hluth-gur was forgotten. The city might still be standing in BC 2300, and if it is it might be the playground of the kopru or their pawns.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:05 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Unfortunately, the GRoF happened and the First Empire fell. The lizard man sorcerer kings of the Second Empire had more immediate problems to worry about, and so the lost city of the Hluth-gur was forgotten. The city might still be standing in BC 2300, and if it is it might be the playground of the kopru or their pawns.
I like this. Or the city may have just been lost, but not forgotten, which could pave the way for an adventure or two. Finding Lost Hluth-gur might be paramount for both the frogfolk and the lizardmen (although for different reasons).

It could also be that at this point (after the GRoF) some other group has come in and built their own city atop the ruins of Hluth-gur. In that case much of the old city may no longer remain, but there might be certain portions of it that are still standing above ground, as well as any buried chambers that might still survive pretty much intact.

Do you have any idea where you would place the ruins on Davania?
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