Mogreth

Rebuilding the world in the wake of the Great Rain of Fire.

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:35 am

Hegryd: D4 Str 16, Con 14, AL L. A veteran of the slave trade for almost 30 years, Hegryd is an outcast even among the social misfits of the Shimmering Lands. He started his trade in the normal fashion, as an apprentice to a master in the Controllers Guild, and spent his early years in the frontiers of the north collecting elves, giants, and their ilk. Although successful, he eventually turned his skills toward the enslavement of his own kind, and now trades mostly in political prisoners and others that the Moadreg Elders would rather see disappear. After living in Isshum for more than ten years Hegryd has grown accustomed to the games there, and can often be found in the colosseum following the progress of his latest sales.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:55 pm

Heroes and Villains

Uthak, Servant of Tuurash (F15, Str 17, Int 14, AL L): Uthak was born to an independent tribe of troglodytes in the frontier between Mogreth and Taymor. The tribe survived by fighting for the side that offered the most coin, and Uthak was among their best warriors. During a particularly brutal war that Mogreth was winning, the Taymorans attacked the tribe (which had decided to remain neutral that time), fearing that they would be attacked from behind. Uthak and a handful of warriors escaped the slaughter, and fled deeper into the wilderness. Eventually, Uthak was separated from his companions, and wandered for months, and found himself on the fringes of Mogreth. He went to Isshum, and obtained work as a servant in Tuurash’s house. Soon afterwards, Uthak learned of a plot by some of the servants (who were secretly working for a rival) to assassinate Tuurash. He informed his master, who noted Uthak’s nobility. As the years passed, Uthak rose in prominence, and is now Tuurash’s personal servant, and de facto master of the household.

Uthak is a principled troglodyte who always keeps his word, and whose loyalty to Tuurash comes before all else. He says little in public, preferring to observe everything, but is frank with Tuurash behind closed doors. While he makes a show of observing the Faith, Uthak still venerates his tribe’s deity, Ssarthanna. Uthak is burly and tall for a troglodyte, with mottled grey and brown scales and green eyes.

Bur’rug, Keeper of the Way (C20, Wis 15, AL C): Bur’rug is descended from a long line of priests of the Way of Irrub and his village, Ir’rorb, is home to one of the Sacred Tablets. Upon reaching adulthood Bur’rug entered the priesthood, and has been a central figure of the semi-outlawed faith for over 30 years. He seldom leaves the Temple of the Way, and never permits the tablet to be out of his sight. Although he maintains a low public profile, he is actively plotting with sympathetic frogfolk in Isshum to bring about a restoration of the original faith, and the ascension of his own people.

Bur’rug is a fanatical devotee of the Way, who throws sayings attributed to the Great Scribe into any discussion he has with supplicants. Devotees of the Way interpret this as a sign of Bur’rug’s near divinity; the truth is that he is obsessed, and partly mad. Bur’rug is emerald green in colour, with bulbous red eyes.

Rusa, Apprentice of Khalgoth (MU 6, Int 15, AL N): Rusa was born in the Taymoran city of Tamoraz to a prominent merchant family. From an early age she displayed strong potential in the magical arts, and her parents sought a tutor. Unfortunately, Rusa was found to have no royal blood, and thus she was forbidden from practising the craft. She grew up embittered, and upon attaining adulthood sought her fortune in the wider world. Rusa had not travelled far before being approached by a young man who claimed to know of her great magical potential, and of a powerful sorcerer who would teach her. Intrigued, she followed the man, and wound up at the court of Khalgoth in Theliir.

Rusa is conflicted over her relationship with her master: She knows that she is receiving training that would have been unavailable to her back home, but her teacher is one of her homeland’s most implacable foes. Khalgoth works her harder than his other apprentices, but otherwise treats her fairly. She does not yet suspect that Khalgoth is training her to be a secret weapon against the Taymorans, while brainwashing her at the same time. Rusa is of average height and of typical Taymoran stock – a light pink complexion, with curly dark brown hair and brown eyes.

Olan of Gathol (F12, Str 16, Cha 14): Olan was born 30 years ago in the city-state of Gathol, into a noble family. Shortly before his 15th birthday, the armies of Mogreth overran his city, and enslaved the survivors. Olan spent the next ten years farming and mining under the lash, before participating in a revolt. He managed to escape in the chaos, and fled with some of the survivors south, into Taymor. A local noble, seeing Olan as a potential tool, took him in and had him trained as a soldier. He served for a couple of years before deserting to pursue his own campaigns. He now leads a band of marauders that raids Mogreth from hideouts in the Altan Tepes.

Olan is motivated by vengeance, seeing Mogreth as a force of evil that must be destroyed, but he is also sufficiently pragmatic to realise that his small army will not topple Isshum. He focuses on raiding caravans, and freeing slaves wherever he finds them – many of these end up joining his company. Olan, like all Gatholians, is of mixed Thonian and Oltec stock, with a deep tanned complexion, brown hair, and grey eyes. He keeps a lock of his sister’s hair – the only memento of his family - in a small leather purse around his neck.

Slessht (C4, Str 15, Wis 15): Slessht grew up in a middle-caste household in Theliir, dreaming of an illustrious army career. He enlisted at adulthood, and proved to be a tough, resourceful warrior, but had little taste for slaughter. Sent behind enemy lines during a campaign in the Frontier, Slessht witnessed a human cleric ministering to the injured – even those close to death. Unaccustomed to such mercy, his worldview collapsed, and he deserted. After months of wandering, he was visited by a shimmering figure, who told him that he had the potential to ease the world’s pain, and usher in a better era. At that moment he became a cleric of Ssarthanna, and has wandered Mogreth’s borderlands since then, ministering to the various marauders and free companies, and offering what hope he can to any slaves who will accept him. Slessht is a lizard man of average height and build, with dark green scales and orange eyes. He wears a necklace of wooden beads, each with the image of a tree on them.

Hasstesh (C8, Wis 16): Hasstesh is an upper-caste lizard man from Teshos who became a priest of the Faith upon reaching adulthood. His piety became fanaticism in the years since, and now he roams Mogreth as a Tass’kar (guardian) of the Faith, using his divinatory powers to root out the unfaithful. He frequently uses the threat of exposure to blackmail others into advancing his aims. Hasstesh is tall and thin for a lizard man, with greenish-brown scales and red eyes. He is missing two fingers on his right hand (the result of a duel with a lizard man he accused of blasphemy).

Eltan of Aril (E7, Str 20, Int 18, AL C): Eltan was once a prince of Aril, an elvish stronghold that was founded shortly before the Great Rain of Fire, and kept its enemies at bay for centuries. Aril finally fell to the armies of Mogreth, and the survivors were dragged to the markets of Isshum. Eltan wound up in Mashgar’s laboratory, where he endured decades of experiments. After he became convinced there was nothing else to learn from the elf, Mashgar sent Eltan to Isshum’s Arena, but he escaped en route, and now roams the countryside in a maddened state. Eltan stands almost seven feet tall, having been horribly transformed by Mashgar’s experiments. He has inhuman strength, but retains his intellect and memories. He wants nothing less than vengeance against Mogreth.
Last edited by Seer of Yhog on Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:58 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:43 pm

Nice. Ordana definitely needs a saurian name though, and I need to know ;) what the Sacred Tablets of Irrub are (and what they can do).
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Bonetti » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:12 pm

Ssarthanna for Ordana?
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Hugin » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:18 pm

Geoff, does this project of yours conflict with any canon that you know of? (People are going to get tired of me asking this! :oops: )

It's a fantastic work regardless, just asking for purposes of the GazH project. ;)

Happy Birthday, btw! :ugeek:

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:22 am

I didn't realize, but since it is ;) Happy Birthday
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Think this is how they did it in Ythlil?
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Bonetti » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:29 am

Oh! It is, indeed!

Happy Birthday, Geoff!
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Hugin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:45 am

Great cake! And so fitting! :mrgreen:

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:00 am

:? Frankly, something like that would give me nightmares... but I guess that's the point.

One of the scariest looking cakes I've ever seen. :lol:
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:01 am

Bonetti wrote:Ssarthanna for Ordana?
Great idea - consider it stolen!
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:07 am

Chimpman wrote:Nice. Ordana definitely needs a saurian name though, and I need to know ;) what the Sacred Tablets of Irrub are (and what they can do).
Well, Bonetti already came up with Ssarthanna, and I went back and "saurianised" Ixion and Protius, so we're all set there.

As for the Sacred Tablets of Irrub, well, the friendly narrator in my (increasingly inaptly named) mental ramblings thread is still busily figuring out the mystery. I haven't decided whether the tablets held in Mogreth eventually found their way into Rundel's hands or not - I'm inclined to say no, as it would provide a nice treasure for a brave party of adventurers to seek. Maybe Bur'rug's collection ended up in Isshum before it sank? :twisted:

But you raise an interesting question - can the metal tablets do any more than convey the information inscribed in them? Perhaps, if enough (or if the right ones) are assembled together, other functions are possible... I have time to ponder this before the Magic Items section gets written.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:22 am

Chimpman wrote:I didn't realize, but since it is ;) Happy Birthday
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Think this is how they did it in Ythlil?
Wow - thank you! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: My wife had a cake waiting for me when I got home today, but it didn't look nearly as obscene as that. I have to hand it to the baker; that frog is amazing. It looks like he's, well, doing some serious business. Or contemplating a laxative. And that *IS* scary. I think we should give this a title - how about:

"Irrub: Thoughts at Dawn"?
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:04 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:Wow - thank you! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: My wife had a cake waiting for me when I got home today, but it didn't look nearly as obscene as that. I have to hand it to the baker; that frog is amazing. It looks like he's, well, doing some serious business. Or contemplating a laxative. And that *IS* scary. I think we should give this a title - how about:

"Irrub: Thoughts at Dawn"?
:lol: :lol: :lol: OMG, I can't stop laughing. My wife is giving me all kinds of strange looks, but this is just too funny.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:47 pm

Hugin wrote:Geoff, does this project of yours conflict with any canon that you know of? (People are going to get tired of me asking this! :oops: )

It's a fantastic work regardless, just asking for purposes of the GazH project. ;)

Happy Birthday, btw! :ugeek:
Thanks Hugin!

The short answer is: I don't think Mogreth would conflict with canon, for the following reasons:

1. Gaz 2 indicates that there was a lizard man civilisation in Ylaruam, long ago (ref. the lizard skin bed)
2. The lizard man civilisation predated the Nithians (as evidenced by the established timeline in the Gaz)

Beyond that, it's a blank slate. In developing the setting, I'm trying to create an empire that is powerful, but not so overwhelming that it would have had an extensive cultural influence that would have been felt in the Gaz era.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Hugin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:03 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:The short answer is: I don't think Mogreth would conflict with canon, for the following reasons:

1. Gaz 2 indicates that there was a lizard man civilisation in Ylaruam, long ago (ref. the lizard skin bed)
2. The lizard man civilisation predated the Nithians (as evidenced by the established timeline in the Gaz)

Beyond that, it's a blank slate. In developing the setting, I'm trying to create an empire that is powerful, but not so overwhelming that it would have had an extensive cultural influence that would have been felt in the Gaz era.
Cool, it's concept is certainly supported by canon (which I was pretty sure about already) and doesn't conflict with any that we are aware of means it should be fully integrable with the GazH project as additional historical detailing (barring objections, of course).

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:18 pm

The one issue that I see (and it's not insurmountable, by any means) is Nithia. I've been looking around and there are several dates that could be used for the "founding" of Nithia, ranging from BC 2000 to BC 1750. Many Gaz entries state that Nithia arises in BC 2000, while I think that the HW set makes the distinction between Bronze Age Nithians in BC 2000 and Iron Age Nithians in BC 1750. This shouldn't have any impact on early Mogreth, but would somehow have to be worked into late Mogreth's history.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:57 pm

I'm fine with Mogreth falling in BC 2000 or 1750 - doesn't really matter, because it won't affect the BC 2300 setting. It may alter your evolving work on the Bonds of Silver (?)
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:19 pm

I'm thinking I may need to revise my Bonds of Silver timeline anyway. :oops: The more research I do, the more I realize that Sharon's original times are pretty accurate ;). It may change the setting of the story from pre-dynastic Nithia, to dynastic Nithia... but that's actually something I wanted to include anyway.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:23 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:I'm fine with Mogreth falling in BC 2000 or 1750 - doesn't really matter, because it won't affect the BC 2300 setting. It may alter your evolving work on the Bonds of Silver (?)
One other thing I was thinking. We originally wanted to tie Mogreth's fall with the BC 1750 disaster, but we don't have to do this. In fact moving the timeframe back to BC 2000 might open up an adventure opportunity. Rather than blaming the Mogreth flood on BC 1750 earthquakes, maybe we can create an adventure path that leads up to the destruction of the "Raismyr Glacier Wall" and the flooding of Mogreth. An excellent adventure for the founders of Nithia to undertake ;)
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:56 pm

Sounds promising! Maybe there was even a prophecy tied up in all that, too.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Hugin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:09 pm

chimpman wrote:One other thing I was thinking. We originally wanted to tie Mogreth's fall with the BC 1750 disaster, but we don't have to do this. In fact moving the timeframe back to BC 2000 might open up an adventure opportunity. Rather than blaming the Mogreth flood on BC 1750 earthquakes, maybe we can create an adventure path that leads up to the destruction of the "Raismyr Glacier Wall" and the flooding of Mogreth. An excellent adventure for the founders of Nithia to undertake ;)
I quite like that idea!
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You know there just has to be! ;)

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Re: Mogreth

Post by Zendrolion » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:47 am

I'm late but... Happy birthday as well, Geoff! :)

Coming back to Mogreth:
Seer of Yhog wrote:The short answer is: I don't think Mogreth would conflict with canon, for the following reasons:

1. Gaz 2 indicates that there was a lizard man civilisation in Ylaruam, long ago (ref. the lizard skin bed)
2. The lizard man civilisation predated the Nithians (as evidenced by the established timeline in the Gaz)

Beyond that, it's a blank slate. In developing the setting, I'm trying to create an empire that is powerful, but not so overwhelming that it would have had an extensive cultural influence that would have been felt in the Gaz era.
I always considered GAZ2' statements about the lizardman civilization as a big, problematic issue, difficult to fit. The relevant passage is the following (page 49):

The lizardman race itself is ancient beyond imagining, their tombs having been buried by ice sheets 4,000 years ago while the Blackmoor World was in its infancy. Their descendants still survive in parts of the D&D World, though they have descended into savagery.

One interesting thing is that this passage talks about the lizardman race, not about the lizardmen's settlement in modern-day Ylaruam.
But the big problem are:

1) 4,000 years ago Blackmoor was destroyed, it wasn't in "its infancy"... But this could well be a typo linked to an old chronological interpretation of this issue (the same is seen in other places, like GAZ1 and DA modules, IIRC);

2) If the Known World was under an arctic climate before the BC 3000 axial shift, how could the lizardmen found a thriving civilization there? Or were these arctic places only used as burial grounds (after all, the passage only speaks about tombs).

About Mogreth proper, I think the Nithians and other human migrations should be allowed to pass through the Ylaruam region around BC 2000. Actually, I had the Nithians born in Ylaruam around BC 2000 by the intermarriage of an Azcan-descended population (I called these the Ne-Teque), and a Neathar-descended population just arrived from the Isle of Dawn. In fact, the fact that the Nithians are an Oltec-Neathar halfblood race is canonic.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:00 pm

Zendrolion wrote:I always considered GAZ2' statements about the lizardman civilization as a big, problematic issue, difficult to fit. The relevant passage is the following (page 49):

The lizardman race itself is ancient beyond imagining, their tombs having been buried by ice sheets 4,000 years ago while the Blackmoor World was in its infancy. Their descendants still survive in parts of the D&D World, though they have descended into savagery.

One interesting thing is that this passage talks about the lizardman race, not about the lizardmen's settlement in modern-day Ylaruam.
Thanks for quoting that piece, Zen, and thanks for the well wishes! I remember reading that as well when I worked on the Cynidicea Sourcebook, and I used that as justification for placing a lizardman empire in modern Ylaruam that predated the GRoF (check the link to the draft timeline on the cover page of this thread).
Zendrolion wrote:But the big problem are:

1) 4,000 years ago Blackmoor was destroyed, it wasn't in "its infancy"... But this could well be a typo linked to an old chronological interpretation of this issue (the same is seen in other places, like GAZ1 and DA modules, IIRC);

2) If the Known World was under an arctic climate before the BC 3000 axial shift, how could the lizardmen found a thriving civilization there? Or were these arctic places only used as burial grounds (after all, the passage only speaks about tombs).
I tend to agree that the reference to Blackmoor being in its infancy was a typo. For the lizard man race to have deposited its tombs there, the culture must have been well established in 3000 BC. The very language used ("their tombs having been buried by ice sheets") implies that the culture had actually passed its peak, and was in decline (or had fallen). So, IMO that gives us several centuries prior to 3000 BC to play with, to properly stage a civilisation's rise and fall.

Elsewhere in our forum I postulated how, in light of more recent discussions that indicated that Ylaruam would have been sub-arctic (or arctic) prior to 3000 BC, such a culture of lizard men could only exist (assuming they weren't based on the tuatara, which can survive in cold climates) through magic. The power required to create a micro-climate would have to be considerable, and lizard men in the Gaz era do not generally have that capability. Could they have had it before? Certainly. But, where could they have learned it? The only civilised humans at that time (Blackmoorians, Thonians, etc.) would not have had many reasons for sharing what knowledge they had with a race as obviously foreign as lizard men, especially when they had more pressing concerns closer to home.

So, more than likely the lizard men acquired their skills from a race sympathetic to theirs. Dragons? Maybe, but the only dragons that would live up there would be whites, and possibly a few young reds in the mountains. Not exactly prime candidates for magical instruction, IMO. Even if the lizard men acquired the necessary skills in warmer climes, why on earth would they move up there willingly?

The easiest (and from a storyline perspective, the most interesting and consistent with respect to my other work) explanation would be that a band of Carnifex sorcerers sought refuge in the north, millennia ago, to escape the fate of their colleagues elsewhere in the world. They would have had the power to create a microclimate around what is now Isshum and Ssugath (basically the swampy bay), and settle. They would have brought their lizard man servants with them, and would generally have kept to themselves. Over the following centuries, they would work towards staging a comeback, but they never counted on the pesky mammals rising to prominence (thinking that the hated Lhomarrians and their ilk would have been humanity's one and only attempt at civilisation). Blackmoor et al could have laid them low during their Beastman crusades (or sometime later), but the GroF brought the region to more congenial climes.

Just prior to the GRoF, the last of the Carnifex vanished (according to the lizard men - the truth might be different), leaving the senior lizard man servants to keep things going. Fortunately for them, they had received basic instruction in magic, and so were able to step into the role vacated by the Carnifex. These were the first sorcerer-kings. Over time, the lizard men tried to regain what had been forgotten (or never taught), but their reduced potential became apparent - the Second Empire of Mogreth would never be quite as grand as the First had been, and so the sorcerer-kings live in the shadow of their vanished masters.

They did, however, manage to sustain their civilisation for another thousand years or so, and in so doing help the lizard man race spread a bit further than would otherwise be the case. So there we go, that (and possibly fragmentary tales about some lost golden age) might be Mogreth's legacy.
Zendrolion wrote:About Mogreth proper, I think the Nithians and other human migrations should be allowed to pass through the Ylaruam region around BC 2000. Actually, I had the Nithians born in Ylaruam around BC 2000 by the intermarriage of an Azcan-descended population (I called these the Ne-Teque), and a Neathar-descended population just arrived from the Isle of Dawn. In fact, the fact that the Nithians are an Oltec-Neathar halfblood race is canonic.
IIRC, we worked under a similar assumption, and Mogreth's importation of slaves effectively brings about the Nithians - and by extension the Alasiyans.
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Chimpman » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:34 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:I tend to agree that the reference to Blackmoor being in its infancy was a typo. For the lizard man race to have deposited its tombs there, the culture must have been well established in 3000 BC. The very language used ("their tombs having been buried by ice sheets") implies that the culture had actually passed its peak, and was in decline (or had fallen). So, IMO that gives us several centuries prior to 3000 BC to play with, to properly stage a civilisation's rise and fall.
As Zen mentions Gaz 1 makes a similar "error". I've always thought that the mistake was in saying 4000 years ago (which would have been BC 3000) as opposed to saying BC 4000. At the very least I think this date should be moved back by 1000 years (just as the divergent Gaz 1 dates should be).
Seer of Yhog wrote:Elsewhere in our forum I postulated how, in light of more recent discussions that indicated that Ylaruam would have been sub-arctic (or arctic) prior to 3000 BC, such a culture of lizard men could only exist (assuming they weren't based on the tuatara, which can survive in cold climates) through magic. The power required to create a micro-climate would have to be considerable, and lizard men in the Gaz era do not generally have that capability. Could they have had it before? Certainly. But, where could they have learned it? The only civilised humans at that time (Blackmoorians, Thonians, etc.) would not have had many reasons for sharing what knowledge they had with a race as obviously foreign as lizard men, especially when they had more pressing concerns closer to home.
... Now this is very interesting indeed. As soon as I read micro-climate I immediately thought of Alfheim (which is just over the mountains by the way). Let's ask this question, "If the elves had the power to create a dream forest anywhere that they wanted, then why choose Alfheim?" What if the answer is that they couldn't create it anywhere. What if they "borrowed" some of the magical power from Mogreth's original climate controlling magic, twisting it to their own purposes, in order to create Canolbarth. This might also explain nicely the good and bad magic points forming, as the magic used to create the forest was being used against its original purpose. It might also add another dark twist to the forest... perhaps granting the OBs some foothold there that we have not previously known about...
Seer of Yhog wrote:The easiest (and from a storyline perspective, the most interesting and consistent with respect to my other work) explanation would be that a band of Carnifex sorcerers sought refuge in the north, millennia ago, to escape the fate of their colleagues elsewhere in the world. They would have had the power to create a microclimate around what is now Isshum and Ssugath (basically the swampy bay), and settle. They would have brought their lizard man servants with them, and would generally have kept to themselves. Over the following centuries, they would work towards staging a comeback, but they never counted on the pesky mammals rising to prominence (thinking that the hated Lhomarrians and their ilk would have been humanity's one and only attempt at civilisation). Blackmoor et al could have laid them low during their Beastman crusades (or sometime later), but the GroF brought the region to more congenial climes.
There are a lot of great ideas here Geoff. I especially like the idea that the carnifex were fleeing from or hiding from something. That gives them the perfect motive for creating such a micro-climate in the first place, rather than finding an area where such a climate is preexisting.

Hmmm... looking back at our GRoF thread discussions , it may even have been possible that the microclimate was much larger back in Blackmoor's time, and that the elves settled in the Glantri area specifically because of the strange phenomenon. Could there have been an elven-carnifex conflict during the time of Blackmoor?
Seer of Yhog wrote:Just prior to the GRoF, the last of the Carnifex vanished (according to the lizard men - the truth might be different),
Now I know you're evil :twisted: If you had mentioned this before I might have drawn the Mogreth lich a bit differently...
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Re: Mogreth

Post by Seer of Yhog » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:37 pm

Chimpman wrote:... Now this is very interesting indeed. As soon as I read micro-climate I immediately thought of Alfheim (which is just over the mountains by the way). Let's ask this question, "If the elves had the power to create a dream forest anywhere that they wanted, then why choose Alfheim?" What if the answer is that they couldn't create it anywhere. What if they "borrowed" some of the magical power from Mogreth's original climate controlling magic, twisting it to their own purposes, in order to create Canolbarth. This might also explain nicely the good and bad magic points forming, as the magic used to create the forest was being used against its original purpose. It might also add another dark twist to the forest... perhaps granting the OBs some foothold there that we have not previously known about...
:twisted: My thoughts on OB magic are that it is inherently incompatible with the Prime Plane - not quite as explosive as mixing matter and antimatter, but dangerous nonetheless. Magic items, artefacts, spells, and similar products of their power corrupt the user not so much because they are inherently evil, but because they are founded on a substance or energy that is completely alien. And yes, the OBs have ideas and desires that would destroy much of the multiverse if they ever came to fruition, but that's a side point...

Anyhow, given the likely power of the Carnifex, it's entirely possible that any magic they used to create a habitable environment for themselves would linger for millennia - long enough for some perceptive elves to notice, and tap for their own purposes. Unfortunately for them, they had no idea what they were dealing with, and who knows what kind of feedback they might receive in centuries to come...

I do like the idea about the OBs getting more footholds. Anything they, or their power, creates or influences is attuned to them, and the taint spreads the more it is used. :twisted:
Chimpman wrote:There are a lot of great ideas here Geoff. I especially like the idea that the carnifex were fleeing from or hiding from something. That gives them the perfect motive for creating such a micro-climate in the first place, rather than finding an area where such a climate is preexisting.
Glad you like that one - I think this is the easiest, and most defensible explanation.
Chimpman wrote:it may even have been possible that the microclimate was much larger back in Blackmoor's time, and that the elves settled in the Glantri area specifically because of the strange phenomenon. Could there have been an elven-carnifex conflict during the time of Blackmoor?
I don't know about that one. Not saying I don't like the idea, but we need to think about it. Elves, by their very nature (beautiful, Birkenstock-wearing, granola-crunching, magic-wielding earth children, yada yada yada...), would be inherently opposed to the OBs, IMO. This makes their occasional corruption that much more poignant, from a plot perspective. If they knew about the OBs, they would fight them, hands down.
Chimpman wrote:Now I know you're evil :twisted: If you had mentioned this before I might have drawn the Mogreth lich a bit differently...
Oh, I think he's good the way he is. :D
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