[Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby CmdrCorsiken » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:52 pm

This topic has been very interesting reading - I appreciate the hard work being done here.

RobJN wrote:
Chimpman wrote:Now the question is - did the daughters betray Tayma because she knew the Ceremony had run its course and was going to put a stop to it? Or did they betray her because she was about the change the Ceremony again (perhaps once more at Tanit's bidding) and the daughters were afraid of what might follow?

This almost reads like something that could be left open to individual DM's evil imagination...

This does sound like something to be left open for the reader/user of the material to choose. The follow up would be, how would events progress either way?
Another thought comes to my mind here: Depending on the motivations of any PCs, freeing Tayma could be the goal of an entire campaign....
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:48 pm

CmdrCorsiken wrote:
RobJN wrote:This almost reads like something that could be left open to individual DM's evil imagination...

This does sound like something to be left open for the reader/user of the material to choose. The follow up would be, how would events progress either way?
Another thought comes to my mind here: Depending on the motivations of any PCs, freeing Tayma could be the goal of an entire campaign....

Thanks guys! Yeah, I agree. Depending on DM whim and PC motivation, Tayma might be someone that either needs to be freed... or needs to be kept imprisoned :twisted: Something like this might be best served by setting up several competing rumors/theories and letting individual DMs choose the version they like the best.

Here's another question for the group - given that Tayma was betrayed and imprisoned (presumably because her "daughters" either wouldn't or couldn't destroy her), where exactly would she be imprisoned?
Taymora Map

- One thought would be Tamoraz. I think it's likely that Tayma once ruled over Tamoraz, so it might make sense that her tomb/prison is located somewhere in the city. On the other hand her daughters might have felt that leaving her in the former capital would have been too dangerous. So perhaps her (not so) final resting place is somewhere else.

- There is a tower in the mountain range in the Poisoned Planes. Perhaps that was built and maintained by the Daughters of Night to imprison Tayma. This location has the added benefit (IIRC) of surviving until the present day... :twisted: In fact I believe that this is the location of Stronghold on Fortress Island (in Minrothad).

Are there other locations (either labeled or not) that you think might work just as well?
Last edited by Chimpman on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:03 pm

This is mostly just a note for myself - based on all of the material I've been reviewing I think I need to make some changes in the Overview document regarding 1) the timeline and 2) Taymoran city descriptions.

Timeline
I'm still fleshing out the timeline with specific details, but it's quite clear now that even some of the very high level events need to be moved back closer to BC 3000. (We've seen some of this already in a previous post).

Cities
The current city descriptions list Taymoraz as a freed city, which I think needs to change. Based on Seer's work above (as well as some of my own in the Noctis Labyrinthus adventure path), and the city's location and history I think it unlikely that this would be the first city to free itself. That honor will go to Soleclea (in essence I'm going to flip the roles of those two cities around a bit).

Anyway, the next version of the Overview document will have those changes, but that's the premise I'm going to be working on moving forward.

So that means that in BC 2300 the city of Taymoraz is still under the control of Queen Jadikira - although that control may be weakening. Freeing the city from her rule could be the focal point of a campaign. It also might mean that Jadikira was one of the original "Daughters of Night" - a direct "descendant" of Tayma - and in fact occupying Tayma's former capitol might indicate that she is one of the strongest nosferatus around.

<casts summon Seer>

What do you think GG? Have you expanded on Jadikira's history at all in your current campaign?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:46 pm

Still organizing more of my thoughts. The following are some of the major city states, their nosferatu rulers, and whatever notes I have about them:

Western States
Soleclea
Queen (as yet unnamed), Daughter of Night - overthrown
The queen was overthrown and possibly destroyed by populace. This will be the one truly free city in the BC 2300 setting, although it will face attempts by other vampiric queens to retake it.

Karituja
Queen (unnamed), Daughter of Night
Karituja is large and militaristic. It controls 3 fortresses along the Intua border and has many skirmishes with the Inti.

The other two western states (below Karituja) are smaller, and probably have lesser nosferatu rulers (not one of the original Daughters of Night).

Northern States
Pseiros
Queen - None
This small village is being fought over by Soleclea and Tycur. It is featured in the Noctis Labyrinthus AP.

Tycur
Queen Nashane, Daughter of Night
This is one of the larger Taymoran cities. It is featured in the Noctis Labyrinthus AP. The vampires of Tycur (among others) have been working on a magical disease (mythic lycanthropy) that will give them more control over the populace.

Tarashish
Queen (unnamed), Daughter of Night

The other states in this territory are probably controlled by lesser nosferatu.

Southern States
Taymoraz
Queen Jadikira, Daughter of Night
One of the larger Taymoran cities, the former capitol, and once seat of Tayma's power. Taymoraz holds control over two smaller villages (most likely ruled by one of Jadikira's lesser nosferatu "daughters".

Colhador
Queen - None. Under elven control
A small elven trading outpost... for now...

The other states in this territory are probably controlled by lesser nosferatu.

Eastern States
Salkish
Queen (unnamed), Daughter of Night
Fights constant battle with her neighbors from Barinaesh and Karisata, who have abandoned Mother Night (Nyx) for Father Death (Thanatos)

Barinaesh
King (unnamed), vampire
The original queen has been overthrown. This city may have some ties to the mysterious night dragons.

Karisata
King (unnamed), vampire
The original queen has been overthrown. This city may have some ties to the mysterious night dragons.

Yidaru
King (unnamed), vampire
The original queen has been overthrown. This city may have some ties to the mysterious night dragons.

The other states in this territory are probably controlled by lesser nosferatu or vampires (probably one of each).

Frontierlands
Kubaros (Ruins)
Queen Kitash, Daughter of Night (possibly destroyed)
Durane, daughter of Kitash seeks to rebuild this city. Detailed in Aresh Campaign.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:24 am

Here are some more thoughts on some of the major conflicts/plot lines that could be happening in Taymora during this time period:

1) Nosferatu vs Vampire: The nosferatu dominated west (Nyx worshipers) are opposed to the vampire dominated east (Thanatos worshipers). As the wasting has dissipated there has been less and less need for the priestesses of Nyx to perform their modified Ceremony of Blood to protect the (living) populace. Because of this, many in the nobility have come to see the living as no more than a food source - an idea perpetuated by those who worship Thanatos. They seek to destabilize and ultimately destroy Taymoran society. This struggle may also highlight the conflict between Nyx's matriarchy and Thanatos' patriarchy.

2) Living vs Undead: The living have started to see their undead leaders more as a plague and less as the saviors of their society, and a few have begun to do something about it. There are many secret movements that seek to overthrow the vampiric nobility - many of these tied to the worship of non-entropic immortals such as Idu/Ixion. One city, Soleclea, has already managed to remove the vampiric nobility, and other cities may follow.

3) The Original Nosferatu: Tayma, once queen of all Taymora, has been sleeping for some time now - entrapped in a prison that has kept her from interfering in Taymoran society or any of the nobility. There may be factions that wish to free Tayma from her long slumber for any number of reasons - to unite Taymora under the rule of a single monarch, to purge the Thanatos worshipers from the east, to usher in a new golden age, etc. If released Tayma may have her own plans... plans that might prove detrimental to every creature on Brun, living or dead.

4) Night Dragons: When Tayma stole the secret of the Ceremony of Sublimation she made some powerful enemies. The night dragons have been plotting the downfall of Taymora ever since then. Some may even have taken human form and set themselves up as vampiric rulers in the east. The night dragons won't be happy until Taymora is utterly destroyed, and their secrets are once again theirs alone.

5) Mythic Lycanthropy: The living have become pawns in the struggle for power between the vampiric rulers of the land. Seeking ever greater control over their subjects, the vampires and nosferatu have begun experimenting with a disease that imparts animalistic characteristics onto their subjects. They hope that these animal traits (associated with animals that vampires have a natural affinity with already) will allow them to directly control their living subjects.

6) External Threats: The Taymorans are on less than friendly terms with most of their neighbors - Intua, Mogreth, Grondheim, and Adhuza. Any of these nations might threaten Taymora in some shape or fashion.

7) Natural Disasters: Volcanic and geological instabilities will ultimately lead to the destruction of Taymora, but these forces may be felt to a lesser degree up until BC 1750. These "natural" occurrences may be tied to other causes - most notably anything related to the immortal Idu.

Any other ideas?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:36 pm

Some more quick - not quite fully fleshed out - thoughts:

Taymoran Society
Taymoran society is very family oriented - with extended families often living together under the same roof and all working in the "family business". In turn these families may be part of a clan or guild, whose members all practice the same craft. Each family pays their dues to the guild (in both gold and blood), and the guilds pay their dues to the nobility (and eventually the queen in control of their city state).

What might some of the major guilds be? Here are the ones I can think of:
Military
Religious - The city's queen herself would most likely be in charge of this guild
Merchants
Farmers
Ranchers
Arcane

Can anyone think of others? What should we call these?

Each guild would be run by one of the queen's "daughters" who in turn would have their own vampiric servants in places of power. These vampires form the nobility of Taymora.

In the past, anyone who didn't pay their blood tax would not be protected from the Wasting, but now that is less of an issue (since the Wasting rarely effects the Taymorans in this age). The vampires however want to perpetuate the practice in order to feed their own needs and desires.

Sometimes a family will choose one of their own to send to the nobility as part of their blood tax (so not just collected blood, but also sometimes a grown adult member of the family). This often happens when a child comes of adult age. The fate of these people is varied. Sometimes they serve the vampire lords as servants. Sometimes they may be sacrificed (if the vampires feed on them too greedily). A rare few are "lucky" - being chosen to become low ranking nobility in the service of the queen. This may be done when the city state wishes to expand its influence, or when it needs to replenish any nobility that might have met an untimely fate. Since the vampiric nobility can not procreate this is the only way they can replenish their numbers.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:04 am

Races
A few thoughts on the races that comprise Taymora:

Elf
Elves may also be seen in many of the coastal cities. These traders from across the Sea of Dread are some of the forerunners of Ilsundal’s migration, however many have already integrated into Taymoran society.
[Which clans? Verdier, Meditor, Sheyallian]

Human (Taymoran)
The Taymorans are humans with light skin and dark, curly hair. They are a mostly agrarian people, although several cities along the coast make a living from foreign trade. Vampires form the noble caste and walk openly among the people, although other forms of intelligent undead are less common. Taymorans are descended from Thonian colonists on Brun.

Human (Maharian)
Human tribes living in the area before Taymorans arrive. They are subjugated by the Taymorans and will eventually become the Makai. Others that fled (to Davania) will eventually become the Varellyans. Perhaps a large block of these people become the Dawn Corsairs before moving on to Davania?

Lupin
Lupins are also fairly common, even in the eastern territories, having migrated into the area from the west before the Taymorans themselves arrived. Several western towns and villages are primarily lupin, although most of those have adopted much from Taymoran culture. This would be an ancient breed of lupin - very wolf-like in appearance.

Tauran
Likewise taurans fleeing the Golden Realm of Gildesh from across the Sea of Dread have made their way into Taymoran lands and integrated with their society fairly well. These folk are the forerunners of the enduk and minotaurs that will born centuries later on the Savage Coast.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:22 am

Updated the Timeline section. Added early history of Tayma, and her struggle against the night dragon Ghaeranatos.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:23 pm

Great work!
Following with interest as usual!
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:16 pm

Chimpman wrote:<casts summon Seer>

What do you think GG? Have you expanded on Jadikira's history at all in your current campaign?


*poof*

Wha? *blinks* Got your message...unfortunately the player that Jadikira kind of depends on has been busy IRL. I'm finding that Jadikira is far more interesting when she gets developed in response to a real person's responses. Hopefully my player's schedule should change starting next week. What are your timelines?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:54 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Chimpman wrote:<casts summon Seer>

What do you think GG? Have you expanded on Jadikira's history at all in your current campaign?


*poof*

Wha? *blinks* Got your message...unfortunately the player that Jadikira kind of depends on has been busy IRL. I'm finding that Jadikira is far more interesting when she gets developed in response to a real person's responses.

Huh? ;( I'm real too, you know....
:lol:

Seer of Yhog wrote:Hopefully my player's schedule should change starting next week. What are your timelines?

No timeline to speak of. I've been trying to force myself to write more often (it seems like as I get older these things come a little harder for me). So I'm just riding the current wave until it plays out ;)

And... while I did think of the Shimmering Lands as "my baby" and was happy to go it alone with that project, with Taymora I'm kind of hoping to get some other folks to contribute with its development. So, <not just targeted at Seer> if anyone has any ideas they'd like to develop here, please speak up!
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby RobJN » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:38 pm

Chimpman wrote:No timeline to speak of. I've been trying to force myself to write more often (it seems like as I get older these things come a little harder for me). So I'm just riding the current wave until it plays out ;)

And... while I did think of the Shimmering Lands as "my baby" and was happy to go it alone with that project, with Taymora I'm kind of hoping to get some other folks to contribute with its development. So, <not just targeted at Seer> if anyone has any ideas they'd like to develop here, please speak up!

Plenty of ideas, but they have to wait in line. I've got a Chronicle to write, Handmaidens to wrangle, a Throne to keep an eye on, <Prince Humperdink> my country's 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder and Guilder to frame for it; I'm swamped. </Prince Humperdink> :ugeek:
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:50 pm

Yes, Chimps are people too! :-D

OK - I'll see if I can light a fire under the player and get her feedback by the end of next week.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:13 pm

I have ideas but they could complicate things for you rather than simplify them :)
I explain: I like the idea of Taymora as M-crete, I like the idea of the population as a mix of maharians and thonians, but I'd like to go much deeper with ethnography, considering canon and fanon sources.. that could also be useful to differentiate the different taymoran city states and also explain, with their different cultural origins, the lack of unity..
In canon we have in the area Makai, who have clearly an hawaian culture yet are described as neathar, Toralai, who are described as runners and hunters of bisons. We have also the indigenous people of the Sea of Dread that coul be either M-polinesian or melanesian. We have much more here in fanon sources: http://pandius.com/ethno.html and http://pandius.com/neathare.html
The Blackmoor d20 setting has also high thonians and normal thonians, the first ones are blonder and taller.
My ideas: considering all this I'd say that many different populations lived already in south-east Brun before the taymorans, so I'd like to place:
Some traces of M-melanesian and polynesian: the first one that populated the area from Bellissaria to the Sea of Dread, IMHO.
Some traces of Oltecs: they spread in all the area of the sea between the three continents.
Some traces of Lhomarrians-like populations: M-atlanteans and M-mediterraneans.
Some traces of M-ancient middle eastern cultures (maharians with oltecs and lhomarrian influences)
Some traces of M-english, german, scandinavian and celt cultures (colonists from Blackmoor and Thonia, other aharians)
Some traces of Toralai, and a culture for them should be developed as there is almost nothing in the HW boxed set..
The "cretan" culture of Taymora could then be a local merging of several thonian, oltec, lhomarrian and maharian influences, yet something of the original cultures should have survived too.
Also the area should have at least some tombs/dungeons/ruins of more ancient unhuman cultures, i.e. giants, lupins, brutemen, lizardmen and fairies mostly.. but probably you already thought of that.

Bottom line, I could try to help if my ideas, or at least some of them, could fit in your plans for Taymora...
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:54 pm

Awesome Sturm! Let's get the discussion underway!
Sturm wrote:I have ideas but they could complicate things for you rather than simplify them :)

Heh... I guess the moral of the story is be careful what you wish for ;) You have a lot of ideas here, so I'm going to try and tackle them a few at a time (so that the posts don't get too long to read ;) ).

Sturm wrote:In canon we have in the area Makai, who have clearly an hawaian culture yet are described as neathar, Toralai, who are described as runners and hunters of bisons. We have also the indigenous people of the Sea of Dread that coul be either M-polinesian or melanesian. We have much more here in fanon sources: http://pandius.com/ethno.html and http://pandius.com/neathare.html

I've been reading those sources over as well. Let's take the Makai to start with:

The big question is when did the Makai actually "become" the Makai? I think it's going to be key to answer this question. First let's take a look at the time frames we are dealing with. We know that the Taymorans move into the area circa BC 2500, and that their civilization is destroyed circa BC 1720. That's about 800 years of Taymora along the coast of Brun, but we know they came from somewhere else - so in some shape or form they existed before BC 2500 as well. If we assume that the core Taymorans are Thonian colonist (which I think we both agree on) then they would have been somewhere on Brun for 500 years (or possibly more, depending on when the colony was established) before that. So that's a total of 1300 years. That's a lot of time - and a multitude of changes can happen within it!

If we also assume that the Maharians developed alongside the Taymorans (as I'm doing), we can use the same time frame. Based on the articles on the Vaults the evolution of the Maharian line is as follows:

Maharians -> Western Maharians -> Urduks
I see this as the line that breaks away from the Taymorans after BC 2629 when the Black Mountains civilization is destroyed (see my timeline in a previous post). I'd put the Western Maharians existing from BC 2795 to BC 2629. Once separated from the Taymorans, they develop into the Urduks (perhaps with some Oltec/Azcan blood thrown into the mix).

Maharians -> Makai
I see this as the group of Maharians who stayed with the Taymorans after the destruction of the Black Mountains civilization. I also subscribe to the theory that the Makai probably have some Azcan blood. In my mind this would put the generation of the Makai somewhere after BC 2500 all the way to BC 1700 (or even afterward).

Honestly I always assumed that the Makai developed after the Taymorans had been destroyed... but I realize this is not the only interpretation. It is possible that the Makai were a distinct people living in the area before the Taymorans arrived there (they could have started interbreeding with Azcans in the area since BC 2800 or even before).

Which of these two scenarios do folks find more acceptable?

Maharians -> Varellyans -> Androkians
I see this branch as having broken off of the previous one (the one forming the Makai) at some point between BC 2500 and BC 1700 - and probably much closer to the former. One idea I've just started toying with is making these guys the ancestors of the Dawn Corsairs. Some large chunk of the Maharian slave populace would have escaped from their oppressors and moved east - through the Frontierlands and eventually to the islands of the Dawn Corsairs. It's there they developed their sea going prowess, after which some of them sail away to become the Varellyans.

Sturm wrote:Some traces of Toralai, and a culture for them should be developed as there is almost nothing in the HW boxed set..

There is very little we know about these people other than that they live in the "Thyatis" area and they hunted buffalo. I'm thinking that in this era it makes a lot of sense for these people to live in the Alfheim area. It's a grassy plain perfect for buffalo (or some similar creatures). Later perhaps they migrate toward Thyatis?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:49 am

More thoughts:
Sturm wrote:Some traces of M-melanesian and polynesian: the first one that populated the area from Bellissaria to the Sea of Dread, IMHO.
Some traces of Oltecs: they spread in all the area of the sea between the three continents.

These people are definitely around... though I'm not sure on the exact form. We know that the Azcans defeat the Oltecs in the area circa BC 2800. The Azcans seek shelter under the original Atraughin Plateau (later to emerge as the Inti), but we know there are remnants of the Oltecs elsewhere - most notably in the Savage Coast, but also I think very likely in the Sea of Dread region.

These people I've tied into Adhuza rather than Taymora - especially during this period. Remember this is Taymora near the beginning of its existence - I'm sure over the centuries to come it will conquer more people and become much more cosmopolitan... but for now I don't want to make it too complicated.

GP did some work on Taymora several years ago and in his version they have conquered/assimilated several other cultures including giants, lizardmen, elves, and more. I think this is a very possible version of Taymora... but I also think that version would exist a few more centuries down the timeline - it's probably what Taymora looks like at its height, right before its destruction circa BC 1700.

Sturm wrote:Also the area should have at least some tombs/dungeons/ruins of more ancient unhuman cultures, i.e. giants, lupins, brutemen, lizardmen and fairies mostly.. but probably you already thought of that.

This it does! There are definitely lupin in the area - having migrated here from the Savage Coast. I see the poor lupin being oppressed on two fronts - one by Intua and the other Taymora. Lizardmen are also common in the area - especially the northern wilds of Taymora - though they will become even more populous after the destruction of Mogreth circa BC 2000 (still 300 years away).

Giants and fairies are probably also common in the northern wilds - with both races still living in nearby Grondheim. Its very possible that the Taymorans pushed some of them out of their native lands, in which case there would be plenty of ruined structures for Taymoran adventurers to explore.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:52 am

Well, Makai could have become what they are after Taymora... resulting from a maharian population and another M-polinesian one coming from the Sea of Dread.. in 2300 BC the M-polinesian could still be in Adhuza and the Makai are still fully neathar (something like a nuragic civilization or cycladic one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuragic_civilization). Shouldn't also Colimans be around with a similar culture?
For the Maharian I'd use as the main inspiration middle eastern cultures: that's because they should have been influenced by lhomarrians (who according to Geoff are the inventors of piramids, writing and other things that in RW occured in the Middle east) and because their relatives, the Varellyans, have a M-phoenician culture according to Geoff. That doesn't mean they should be mirrored exacty on RW cultures, but the hundreds of RW Middle east cultures could well be used for all the area from western Skothar to Alphatia to North eastern Davania and south eastern Brun, as the area already has some Middle east inspiration in canon (Alphatia, Nithia and Thothia, Jennites, Arypt) and is indeed in the Middle of Mystara.
The little problem is to link Blackmoor/Thonia with that.. canon Blackmoor and d20 too have clearly M-european cultures (scandinavian, english) and the high Thonians seem quite north european.. yet the common thonians are described as dark of hair and shorter, so they seem to be south europeans... if thonian colonist are the south european element and maharians are the middle east element that fits perfectly with Taymora as M-Crete.
Ebla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebla) would be IMO good inspiration for southern brunian maharians
I'd consider the Toralai as Aharian, i.e. all the HW neathar should be a sort of pre-celtic or "almost celtic" european population, without chariots and horses.. (Their customs in the HW boxed set recall some traits of pre-roman italian people).
In 2300 BC they could weel be mostly in the Darokin/Alfheim area.. maybe later they mixed with Intuans and gave the Children of the Horse their distinctive cultural trait of buffalo hunts.

How to use all this in your Taymora? I think this could be very useful to differentiate customs and cultures of the individual cities, as we could assume that several if not all of them should have a previous maharian (and/or oltec/makai/unhuman origin) before the Thonians...
So for example each city could have differences in customs for marriage, jewelry, name of immortals, taboos and much more.. I could develop some ideas if you want and expand a bit the timeline before the GroF.
Anyway where exactly the Thonian colony was in 3000 BC?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:26 pm

Sturm, you're full of great ideas! :twisted:
Sturm wrote:Well, Makai could have become what they are after Taymora... resulting from a maharian population and another M-polinesian one coming from the Sea of Dread.. in 2300 BC the M-polinesian could still be in Adhuza and the Makai are still fully neathar (something like a nuragic civilization or cycladic one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuragic_civilization). Shouldn't also Colimans be around with a similar culture?

Do we have any information on where the Colimans originated from? One nice thing about having the Coliman culture in coastal Brun would be that after BC 1700, all of their works would be hidden beneath the waves (essentially wiping all traces of them from Brun - er, well, at least from the surface of Brun...). This is the kind of theme I really like for BC 2300!

Sturm wrote:For the Maharian I'd use as the main inspiration middle eastern cultures: that's because they should have been influenced by lhomarrians (who according to Geoff are the inventors of piramids, writing and other things that in RW occured in the Middle east) and because their relatives, the Varellyans, have a M-phoenician culture according to Geoff.

Middle eastern for Maharians seems like it would work. I have to admit I'm not up to speed on how the Lhomarrians fit into the big picture (at least with respect to Brunian cultures). Seer, would you care to elaborate/speculate on that topic?

Sturm wrote:The little problem is to link Blackmoor/Thonia with that.. canon Blackmoor and d20 too have clearly M-european cultures (scandinavian, english) and the high Thonians seem quite north european.. yet the common thonians are described as dark of hair and shorter, so they seem to be south europeans... if thonian colonist are the south european element and maharians are the middle east element that fits perfectly with Taymora as M-Crete.

I'm definitely thinking that the Thonian colonists would be Common Thonians. Short and dark of hair seems more appropriate for the Taymorans. I agree that the mixture of Common Thonian and Maharian would make for a perfect M-Crete Taymora.

I'm less sure how to resolve the issue of the Thonian = M-Europeans, and how that would fit into Taymoran society. It's possible that after the GRoF (and at least 500 years of living with other peoples indigenous to Brun), that there is quite a bit of cultural blending going on. Bits and pieces of Thonian culture could still show up in the BC 2300 era Taymora as artifacts, names, stories/histories, etc...

Sturm wrote:How to use all this in your Taymora? I think this could be very useful to differentiate customs and cultures of the individual cities, as we could assume that several if not all of them should have a previous maharian (and/or oltec/makai/unhuman origin) before the Thonians...
So for example each city could have differences in customs for marriage, jewelry, name of immortals, taboos and much more.. I could develop some ideas if you want and expand a bit the timeline before the GroF.

I very much agree with this approach. I've already been toying with the idea of breaking Taymora out into 3 or 4 major geographical entities (for lack of better descriptors I'm calling them north, south, east, and west Taymora) - see this post. What if we integrated your cultural diversity idea in with that? For example, perhaps southern Taymora assimilated the Coliman culture. Western Taymora might contain a large number of Oltec descendants (leading to your M-Polynesian culture). Northern and eastern Taymora could be predominantly Maharian. Even within those boundaries individual cities could differ in culture and customs quite a bit, but I'd like to tie in some level of geographical cohesion. What do you think of that idea?

Of course, the core Taymoran culture (and particularly the nobility) would be descended from the Thonian colonists (though I do suppose a lot of cultural mixing has gone on since their initial colonization), which gives us a unifying element. Although the nosferatu/vampires might all share a core belief system, I can imagine several reasons why they would want to promote individual city state customs. For one thing, if they are competing/fighting with one another (to some degree) such jingoism could lead to a populace that is more easily controlled by an entrenched nobility, and less easily swayed by the vampires next door, so to speak.

Anyway, if you want to run with this idea, I'd love to see it! Also, there are quite a few as yet unnamed settlements on the map... so naming them might be a good way to work in some of those distinct regional cultural traits.

Sturm wrote:Anyway where exactly the Thonian colony was in 3000 BC?

I'm guessing it is somewhere near the Black Mountains above Sind. Next on my list of things to do is to put together a migration map for all of these related people in the area. That should help us start to visualize where these people came from and how they might have interacted with one another.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:56 pm

I think there is nothing in canon about the origin of Colimans... they are described as Neathar so they could be from any continent :D The Sea of Dread is a good location as any, I suppose...
Geoff said he considered lhomarrian as an offshoot of neathar from Skothar but also influencing many global human cultural traits like sailing, writing and pyramids, but I'll let him say more about this...
I suppose blackmoorian and thonians, being advanced civilizations, have left some interesting ruins in Brun and changed much local cultures..
They have to be M european if Blackmoor is canon, Imo, but that fits with Crete..
I agree anyway with a common taymoran culture and some local traits, I'll start working on them and we'll see...
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:26 pm

Ok, I have a first pass at a Taymoran Migration map.
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Last edited by Chimpman on Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Seer of Yhog » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:06 pm

Great map! Isn't it "Tamoraz", and not "Taymoraz", though?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:02 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Great map! Isn't it "Tamoraz", and not "Taymoraz", though?

Thanks Seer! :oops: Yep. I'll fix that in the next iteration.

I think I'll also add in Ghaeranatos' pursuit, and maybe see if I can fit in some of the Maharian (and perhaps lupin and tauran) migrations. I may end up splitting it into two maps because I don't want it to be too crowded... but we'll see how it comes out.

Another stray thought I just had... I wonder if Tayma's Flight across the plains (between the Black Mountains and what would one day become Taymora) could have triggered the Inti to stick their heads back above ground. With so much activity going on above them, perhaps they were drawn out to see what was going on... I might play around with that.

I'm also thinking that Ghaeranatos' meddling in the affair of the giants may play into the Grondheim timeline as well.

Another question that this map brought up was where (and when) did the Thonian colonists come from? I'm figuring that they were on Brun before the GRoF - but it doesn't make sense to me that their original settlement would have been near the Black Mountains (unless perhaps there were some rare resources in the area that the colonists were sent to gather). Another reason for the move might have been after the GRoF - the mountains (and caverns found within) might have offered the colonists some protection from the radiance fallout - even though the weather would have been much colder there than along the coast.

The above map also gives us at least one location (looks like somewhere in Southern Grondheim) where there might be some early Taymoran ruins. Could be a good reason for Taymoran adventurers to venture into Grondheim territory.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:59 pm

I've updated the migration image to include Lupin and Tauran migrations. I've also added Ghaeranaton's pursuit, and corrected my previous labeling error.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:00 pm

Great!
I'm slowly drafting something about taymoran sub-cultures, should be ready in one or two days..
In the meantime, I need some clarifications about the people living in this area of Brun:
Fairies: they should have live here since the dawn of time, so they didn't come from somewhere else, right?
Giants: where do you think it was their original homeland?
Reptilians: Shouldn't they have come from Davania, and if so when?
In 3050 BC, before the GroF the area should have a strong blackmoorian presence, but what other culture lived here? reptlians were already present?
in Mishler's history of Blackmoor dwarves originated in the Wyrmsteeth area and were later enslaved by dragons.. giants lived all around Brun but their only organized realm was in the northern Dawn territories and the rest of the KW are was inhabited at first by brute men and later by neathar, while oltecs lived in Sind and beyond... lizard men are mentioned only in Davania at this time.
Your idea is different, and if so how it is?
Sorry for the many questions :)
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:48 pm

Alright, we did some more solo gaming at my end and I developed Jadikira a bit more. I've summarised the details below (unless you want to see the "fictionalised" version.

Motivations

Although a powerful Daughter of Night in her own right, Jadikira is a consummate politician. She knows that rivals are always waiting to eliminate her, so she cultivates allies wherever she can. This does not mean, however, that she views her allies as partners - everyone is a tool of some form to be used in the most expedient manner. Some are used right away, while others are carefully tended until they become suggestible enough to do what she wants. Thus, Jadikira appears to preside over Tamoraz like an honourable queen (which many commoners believe she is), while her dupes carry out her dirty work. Her ultimate goal is nothing less than complete domination over all of Taymora, with her as its undying empress. However, she has seen portents that Taymora is doomed, but does not know when this will happen. She hopes that if she can secure enough power she will prevent the disaster from destroying her land, and afterwards be revered.

Habits

- She relies on spies to learn as much as she can about people whom she thinks may be useful to her. Once she feels she has enough information she will approach them, or arrange to have them meet her "by accident", and she will appeal to them in a way designed to get at them through their weak spot. She will appear helpful at first, but eventually make them dependent on her until the relationship reaches a point where she is in control.
- She likes drinking chilled blood spiced with rosemary and oregano in a covered silver cup. To outsiders whom she does not wish to alienate, she passes this off as special medicine for her skin condition.
- She owns a few mango plantations (they're more common on the islands further south, but some do grow in southern Taymora).
- She will eat small amounts of food when around outsiders whom she feels will be useful in order to allay suspicion.
- She is abrupt, but not rude, towards her servants and extends them small courtesies. Unhappy servants are potential assassins.
- She is unfailingly polite towards people whom she feels she needs - this is especially true in our campaign, where she has just won Marguerite's (the PC mage) confidence; although the character still thinks she's having weird dreams about someone from the past who has offered to teach her lost magic. This is about to change. :twisted:
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