[Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:59 pm

Hmmm...John, did you ever draw up a map that superimposed Taymora over the modern coastline?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:00 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Hmmm...John, did you ever draw up a map that superimposed Taymora over the modern coastline?

I definitely have the two coastlines together (as separate layers). I could put something presentable together fairly quickly and share it here (though this weeks is a bust since I'm probably going to end up working 16 to 18 hours a day). But I'll try and post something next week.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:05 pm

That would be awesome! This would be very handy for a number of people, I would imagine.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:55 pm

Sturm wrote:I'm slowly drafting something about taymoran sub-cultures, should be ready in one or two days..

Awesome! Can't wait to see what you come up with!

Sturm wrote:In the meantime, I need some clarifications about the people living in this area of Brun:
Fairies: they should have live here since the dawn of time, so they didn't come from somewhere else, right?

This is a good question - I think the answer is going to depend on how you view the pre-GRoF world in this location. For purposes of the BC 2300 setting we've been working under the assumption that Ethengar was the former north pole (right or wrong, this is the stance we've taken). If that's the case then the area would have been pretty cold. That's not to say fairies wouldn't have lived there... but I don't think they would have been the same kind of fairies who live here now.

I would say that many of the fairies in the Queen of Grondheim's Court are newcomers to the area. They were summoned by the giant kingdoms to help them fight the encroaching humans... and the giants have regretted that decision ever since.

I think there might be some ancient (pre-GRoF) fey sites scattered throughout the area, many of which have probably been "re-claimed" by the fairies living here now. Hmmm... this actually brings up a very interesting question... how did the axial shift of Mystara affect links and portals to the Fey Realm? For example, I'm assuming that cold loving fairies would have portals from their own cold fey world to the pre-GRoF north... but what happens once the north pole is shifted and the climate becomes warmer on the Mystara side of the portal? Not sure :D but there is a lot here to think about!

Sturm wrote:Giants: where do you think it was their original homeland?

Again, going back to a pre-GRoF world where Ethengar is the north pole, there were probably several frost giant kingdoms scattered throughout the mountain ranges in what is currently the known world. I'm also envisioning the Isle of Dawn as a big giant stronghold (probably with several giant kingdoms of its own). The area of Grondheim encompasses now is probably the core of their territory, but it stretched over the Shimmering Lands and probably up into the Wyrmsteeth Mountains, and then down all the way to the coast of Brun (covering portions of Taymora).

Sturm wrote:Reptilians: Shouldn't they have come from Davania, and if so when?

They did, pre-GRoF. If you look at the Mogreth timeline you can pull more details. In short, Mogreth was a hideaway redoubt for a small population of Carnifex escaping Davania. Geoff and I also surmise that the Carnifex created a heated valley in the north using their magic, and this is one factor in why the Ylaruam desert is as hot as it is in the modern era. Actually lots of stuff can be pulled from the Mogreth thread or (probably more easily) from the Mogreth section at the Vaults.

Sturm wrote:In 3050 BC, before the GroF the area should have a strong blackmoorian presence, but what other culture lived here? reptlians were already present?

Reptiles were here, but hidden and confined to a small area.
Beastmen were present in the north - part of the reason for Blackmoorian presence as well - the Beastman Crusades. Urzud (formerly Uthorrad)
Giants were around as well.
There were dwarven colonists nearby, as well as other colonies from Thonian and Blackmoor (south of the pole).
Oltecs and Azcans were fighting in the area (probably along the Savage Coast region, but all the way up to Atraughin).

Sturm wrote:in Mishler's history of Blackmoor dwarves originated in the Wyrmsteeth area and were later enslaved by dragons.. giants lived all around Brun but their only organized realm was in the northern Dawn territories and the rest of the KW are was inhabited at first by brute men and later by neathar, while oltecs lived in Sind and beyond... lizard men are mentioned only in Davania at this time.
Your idea is different, and if so how it is?
Sorry for the many questions :)

This part may take more time than I have to answer. Let me get back to it later.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:56 am

Ok, as you know I go with the HW precataclysmic map, but I think that's not necessarily a problem as I too believe the area was much colder before GroF anyway..
- About fairies I'd like the idea of an "Ice Court" living in the area before GroF, being later slowly replaced by Oberon and Titania's "Summer Court".. so Grondheim could have a struggle going on between the two fairy factions... Also the descendant of the Queen "Ice Court" could be in Norwold now, in 1000 AC, and still enemies of the southern fairies...
- We agree that many giants should be around pre and after GroF
- Read the Mogreth timeline, now it's clear, I think reptilians could have come to the Karameikos area after 2000 BC but they were quickly defeated by the late Taymorans and were forced to hide underground (The B modules have a lot of underground trogs) or in the areas that will later become the Blight and the Malpheggi Swamp...
- IMC the homeland of Dwarves has always been the Rockhome area.. but I'm going to use all the Shimmering lands material anyway, almost as it is, IMC the resident dwarves were simply joined by the others coming from Skothar and the other area of Brun.
- IMC many neathar lived in the area well before the GroF... I suppose in your timeline they should be in southern and warmer areas during blackmoor times, but I think that doesn't change much for our purposes of 2300 BC, as after 3000 BC almost every people of Mystara would have been moved around by the GroF
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:15 pm

Sturm wrote:Ok, as you know I go with the HW precataclysmic map, but I think that's not necessarily a problem as I too believe the area was much before GroF anyway..

Yep, I agree. Hopefully all it will take to reconcile things for precataclysmic map folks is a few tweaks in the early timelines. Most of the stuff after the GRoF can be fudged a bit to match one interpretation or the other.

Great ideas about the fairies! I'm going to move those thoughts over to the Grondheim thread so as not to loose them.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:29 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Alright, we did some more solo gaming at my end and I developed Jadikira a bit more. I've summarised the details below (unless you want to see the "fictionalised" version.

Cool! I love the take on Jadikira - I think many of the vampire queens would behave similarly to one degree or another, but I like the idea that Jadikira is the best of the bunch at doing the manipulator thing. That probably played a big role in her being able to assume control of her "mother's" capitol (displacing most of her other sisters to lesser cities in the process).

Seer of Yhog wrote:Thus, Jadikira appears to preside over Tamoraz like an honourable queen (which many commoners believe she is), while her dupes carry out her dirty work. Her ultimate goal is nothing less than complete domination over all of Taymora, with her as its undying empress. However, she has seen portents that Taymora is doomed, but does not know when this will happen. She hopes that if she can secure enough power she will prevent the disaster from destroying her land, and afterwards be revered.

This is something that might also have led to the imprisonment of Tayma in the first place. I'm starting to think that Jadikira was the architect behind the whole scheme... Hmmm... the sad thing is that Tayma probably also received the same kind of visions, and was taking actions to prevent that future herself - actions that the other vampiric overlords might not have liked too much. A perfect reason to depose the old queen... especially if Tanit is sending visions to several of the other Daughters of Night as well.

"You've all seen the visions! We know where her actions will lead us... she must be stopped!"

Hmmm... I've also been having thoughts recently about a semi-blasphemous cult in Taymora that combines the worship of Tanit(Nyx) and Idu(Ixion) together... possibly depicting the two as lovers of some kind. If Tayma began supporting such a cult (in the belief that reconciling Mother Night with The Great Bull of fire, would somehow prevent the geological upheaval that was to come) it could be some very valid grounds for her Daughters (pure Tanit worshipers) to oppose her.

... and more thoughts... if true (and there was something going on between Ixion and Nyx) then perhaps it wasn't Ixion who caused Taymora to sink after all... but Valerias... :twisted:
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:10 pm

Hi,
so I'm ready to begin my draft about Taymoran cultures.. I've individuated 11 different cultural influences:
- The Thonian colonists: escaped from the patriarchal and hierarchical Thonian empire because they had already some matriarchal elements but before Tayma the males had still much power.
- Maharians (central and south, I'd call this branch Mahakians, but if you have better names please suggest): A full matriarchal society already heavily influenced by Nyx, I suppose the goddess directed Tayma to the area exactly because she knew taymorans could find allies there.
- Toralai (north and east I'd call this branch Albai): a neathar culture with equality between males and females, but with a strong influence by Nyx too. Similar people should also live in the Frontierlands..
- Colimans (south east): a neathar culture of megalith builders.
- pre-Makai (south west, I'd call them Eokai): These are fully neathar now but will form the classical makai culture with M-polynesian and maybe tanagoro elements after 1700 BC.
- Oltecs (west, I'd call them Otei): Not really classical Oltecs neither Azcan/Inti, rather the descendants of the first wave of oltecs immigrant from Skothar, good sailors.
- M-polynesian (south, I'd call them Mawa): Should be the humans living mostly in Adhuza, but some of them live in the area around Suthus.
- Fairy folks and giants (everywhere): Even if they have been defeated in the area, they will survive to present times, so pockets of them should definitely be present in Taymora.
- Taurans
- Lupins
- Elves of Colhador

Other people that could influence taymora: Lizardmen and trogs? frogfolks? gnomes? dwarves? chameleon men, brutemen? probably these people are around..

All these cultures should provide plenty of regional differences but there will still be a common Taymoran culture that between 2600 and 1700 BC will slowly became stronger and stronger, assimilating many regional differences.. yet in 2300 BC these differences should still be quite important, particularly in the countryside and among the common folks, a little less in the cities and among the nobility, I guess.
Next step, details better the individual cultures and maybe propose some names for the map...
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:33 pm

Just found this in Champions of Mystara:
"At the head of the government is the Tayma, or queen. The Tayma is elected by popular vote. She rules as long as she wishes (often for life), provided the Karimari people don't vote her out of office in favor of a candldate they think would do better".
I think it's a coincidence, but what if it isn't?
What if Tayma was a Karimari queen, and therefore hers is a title and not a name? That would make her origin even more interesting, more so as Cthulhudrew linked the Karimari to Adhuza here:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4007&p=52441&hilit=karimari#p52441
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Hugin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:30 pm

That is a very intriguing find there, Sturm! It has the potential to rewrite the origins of the Taymoran culture.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:37 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:Hmmm...John, did you ever draw up a map that superimposed Taymora over the modern coastline?

I've posted a map here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2566&p=129769#p129769 It's not pretty - I've no time for pretty at the moment ;), but it might help out a bit.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:14 am

Hey Sturm, great ideas. Comments below:
Sturm wrote:- The Thonian colonists: escaped from the patriarchal and hierarchical Thonian empire because they had already some matriarchal elements but before Tayma the males had still much power.
- Maharians (central and south, I'd call this branch Mahakians, but if you have better names please suggest): A full matriarchal society already heavily influenced by Nyx, I suppose the goddess directed Tayma to the area exactly because she knew taymorans could find allies there.

Though culturally different, these two people could have migrated into the area together (coming from the northwest). It might also be that these two cultures had begun to merge already before moving to the southern coast of Brun. They could still be distinct enough from one another to be considered separate, but I see these two as the largest and most dominant "population" of Taymorans. These folk would also form the bulk of the Taymoran nobility.

Sturm wrote:- Toralai (north and east I'd call this branch Albai): a neathar culture with equality between males and females, but with a strong influence by Nyx too. Similar people should also live in the Frontierlands..

Not sure if these people would have migrated from the northwest as well or if they were living in the area already. If the former, then they could be lumped above with the other two. I like the idea that some of these people live throughout the southern coast of Brun, into the Frontierlands and possibly also on the Corsair Isles. Their reverence for Nyx is probably a lot more tempered and relaxed - they may not embrace the rule of vampires as much as the above two cultures.

Sturm wrote:- Colimans (south east): a neathar culture of megalith builders.

These folks I see living in the area alonf the coast of Brun when the Taymorans migrate into the area. Their assimilation into Taymoran society would probably begin circa BC 2500.

Sturm wrote:- pre-Makai (south west, I'd call them Eokai): These are fully neathar now but will form the classical makai culture with M-polynesian and maybe tanagoro elements after 1700 BC.
- Oltecs (west, I'd call them Otei): Not really classical Oltecs neither Azcan/Inti, rather the descendants of the first wave of oltecs immigrant from Skothar, good sailors.
- M-polynesian (south, I'd call them Mawa): Should be the humans living mostly in Adhuza, but some of them live in the area around Suthus.

I'm thinking that the M-Polynesian element of these cultures is probably all related (and probably has some ties to the Original Oltecs and Azcans throughout the area). Azcan and Oltec culture definitely doesn't have to be monolithic in the area, and I can see their societies fracturing greatly after the GRoF.

I see the Mawa as also being descended from the Oltecs, although these may have taken more to a life on the sea (inhabiting the many islands in the area). Was this your intention, or did you have something else in mind?

Where do the Albarendi albinos fit into this picture?

Sturm wrote:- Fairy folks and giants (everywhere): Even if they have been defeated in the area, they will survive to present times, so pockets of them should definitely be present in Taymora.
- Taurans
- Lupins

Yes.

Sturm wrote:- Elves of Colhador

What clan are these elves from? I've been thinking lately that these are the Sheyallia.

Sturm wrote:Other people that could influence taymora: Lizardmen and trogs? frogfolks? gnomes? dwarves? chameleon men, brutemen? probably these people are around..

Lizardmen and trogs I see being relegated to the wilds of the north - between the borders of Taymora and Southern Grondheim (probably neither of those nations has a solid hold on the area at this time). Mogreth is still a power (and one that has opposed Taymora in the recent past) so I don't think lizardfolk or trog populations would be given very warm welcomes in Taymora proper (though there are probably still merchant and adventurer types wandering around). Any large populations of these folk are probably some kind of Mogrethian outcast in the recent past - see some of GG's ideas in the Mogreth thread regarding the White Rod).

Frogfolk are a distinct possibility - though I had been envisioning using them more prominently for Intua than for Taymora. Still there might be small populations on the border of those two countries. Chameleon men are an interesting idea, but another I think I would keep further west of Taymoran lands. I can definitely see small populations from Intua through (proto-Sind) and into the Savage Coast.

Dwarves and gnomes probably don't have very large populations in Taymora - again outside of the merchant or adventuring types. Dwarves should have a fairly unsavory reputation in this era as they are tied very closely with Blackmoorian technomancy and the Wasting disease that accompanies it. Likewise gnomes are seen as dwarven lackeys.

I like the idea of ancient pockets of brutemen - especially in the mountainous regions of Taymora, Grondheim, and Intua. These creatures could caus problems for folk of all three nations.


Sturm wrote:All these cultures should provide plenty of regional differences but there will still be a common Taymoran culture that between 2600 and 1700 BC will slowly became stronger and stronger, assimilating many regional differences.. yet in 2300 BC these differences should still be quite important, particularly in the countryside and among the common folks, a little less in the cities and among the nobility, I guess.

Maybe... though since we have all of these different cultures living in city states scattered throughout Taymora, I think it likely that each city state might have a strong affinity with a certain cultural group. I don't see the various city states as being great melting pots at this point... the nobility probably don't encourage their people to mingle with folk from other city states much.

The noble class on the other hand is a different matter. I'd make them all descended from a single culture (probably descended from the Thonian / Mahakian peoples).
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:10 am

Chimpman wrote: They could still be distinct enough from one another to be considered separate, but I see these two as the largest and most dominant "population" of Taymorans. These folk would also form the bulk of the Taymoran nobility.

Ok
Chimpman wrote: Not sure if these people would have migrated from the northwest as well or if they were living in the area already. If the former, then they could be lumped above with the other two. I like the idea that some of these people live throughout the southern coast of Brun, into the Frontierlands and possibly also on the Corsair Isles. Their reverence for Nyx is probably a lot more tempered and relaxed - they may not embrace the rule of vampires as much as the above two cultures.

I think they could be native of the area, with slight cultural difference between those living in Taymora, the Frontierlands and other places.. I agree that their reverence for Nyx should be more relaxed, I think in your Aresh campaign there were indeed people who worshiped Nyx but didn't want to submit to vampires...
Chimpman wrote:These folks I see living in the area along the coast of Brun when the Taymorans migrate into the area. Their assimilation into Taymoran society would probably begin circa BC 2500.

Yes, they should have disappeared and be only in the Hollow World from approx. 1800 BC, I think. Their culture could have began around 2900 BC if we assume the megaliths were a form of druidic magic useful to resist the wasting... they should also be the descendant of a similar, pre-GroF culture that spread in Brun and the Dawn Territories...
I think that all these neathar people (maharians, toralai, colimans) suffered in Blackmoorian times as the powerful technomagic nation would see the Alphatian sea and Brun as a place inhabited by exploitable primitives.. while Davania had strong independent cultures (reptilian, elves, halflings, dragons, enduks) that could not be easily colonized.
I'm thinking that the M-Polynesian element of these cultures is probably all related (and probably has some ties to the Original Oltecs and Azcans throughout the area). Azcan and Oltec culture definitely doesn't have to be monolithic in the area, and I can see their societies fracturing greatly after the GRoF.
I see the Mawa as also being descended from the Oltecs, although these may have taken more to a life on the sea (inhabiting the many islands in the area). Was this your intention, or did you have something else in mind?

No I think the Mawa as oltec descended could work, I just see them as one elements of the future Makai (the polynesian element) while I see the Otei (I'll check oltec etnography for alternative names) as the ones who will form part of the atruaghin clans.. i.e. they have common ancestors but from different branches, and will take different paths.. the Makai though are indicated as neathar in canon so they should as least descend from a neathar population, so I suppose the Eokai could work, (they could be inspired by maltan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalithic ... s_of_Malta, who are easily linked to cretan and megalithic cultures, so both to the colimans and the mahakians...)
In Adhuza maybe should also live some M-melanesian populations somehow connected to the karimari, as I suppose they could be the first modern humans who left Skothar...
Where do the Albarendi albinos fit into this picture?

Good question, I saw in fan works they were supposed to be a servant race created by taymora or also alphatians.. even if that's partially true they should come from somewhere, they could be the last true Eokai.. or colimans, or a mix of the two people.. and/or taymoran wizards that survived the disasters..
- Elves of Colhador. What clan are these elves from? I've been thinking lately that these are the Sheyallia.

Could be, Vyalia and Verdier should come here around 2200 BC too, so some people of these clans could be sailing around... in 2300 BC most of the elves of the two migrations should be already in the Serpent Peninsula or the Davanian coast... but for some reason (human raiders? reptilians?) they will not stay there long...
Lizardmen and trogs

Agree on all the other minor populations. Several names in the map could be inspired by them :)
Maybe... though since we have all of these different cultures living in city states scattered throughout Taymora, I think it likely that each city state might have a strong affinity with a certain cultural group. I don't see the various city states as being great melting pots at this point... the nobility probably don't encourage their people to mingle with folk from other city states much.
The noble class on the other hand is a different matter. I'd make them all descended from a single culture (probably descended from the Thonian / Mahakian peoples)

Sure, I still think it's better to differentiate cities and indeed that will be convenient for local queens.. it's safe to assume that each of them will claim descent from the original population or royal bloodline... and that would be true as certainly the queens and lords will have the blood of previous rulers inside them, one way or another :)
I'll expand on this as detailing local cultures and messing with your map :)
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Seer of Yhog » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:48 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Seer of Yhog wrote:Hmmm...John, did you ever draw up a map that superimposed Taymora over the modern coastline?

I've posted a map here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2566&p=129769#p129769 It's not pretty - I've no time for pretty at the moment ;), but it might help out a bit.


:shock: Whoa! That's awesome! Headache-inducing, but awesome! Thank you! I've outlined things geographically with my player at a high level, but this will put it all into perspective for her.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:59 pm

Ok let's start with the original different cultures (before their merging in Taymora).

Common Thonians cultural traits:
- Cult of freedom and preference for decentralized governments after a past of feudalism. Local leaders are elder males, the Judges, and they pass sentences following a written, centralized law with a compensation criterion, i.e. the victim or his/her family can choose the punishment for the culprit, even enslavement but not death;
- Importance of female Immortals, female clerics and matrilineality (in opposition to patriarchy of High Thonians). Still more or less a patriarchal culture but local women cleric have high influence in every town and their advice is always listened;
- Brought several knowledges from Skothar as phonetic writing, money, horses, advanced metallurgy, therefore considered themselves superior to other neighbour human populations.
- Had a collective economy in towns, mostly controlled by females, but there was personal property for items and family property for fields and houses
- Have marriage but with a relaxed sexual morality (i.e. no punishments for adultery). Divorce is possible but rare and disapproved.
- Mourn the dead, elaborate underground tombs are built for judges and clerics.
- Omnivorous diet, breed many kinds of animals.
- Rebel several times against the Blackmoor central government before the GroF as it was based on slavery, colonialism and had a more authoritarian culture.

What's left of that: I suppose hulean and midlands cultures were influenced by these people, in Taymora the only city in which some of their cultural traits could be preserved should be, I think, Tamoraz and maybe the area to the north east of it...
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:18 pm

Mahakians
- Matriarchy much stronger than among Common Thonians i.e women rule all aspects of everyday life and female Immortals are considered more important than male ones. Only women can attain high positions in government and clergy, but in everyday life males have equal rights.
- Had a collective economy and collective fields and houses with personal properties only for small items.
- Female clerics uphold the unwritten laws, mostly based on compensation for the victims and familiar responsibility, i.e. family members too will respond for the actions of a close relative.
- Have almost none sexual rules, i.e. even if there are couples that doesn't implicate exclusivity, therefore biological paternity isn't even understood as a concept. No formal rites for marriage and divorce.
- Vegetarians, do not eat fish nor land animals, but breed many for milk and eggs.
- Do not fear death as they strongly believe is only the beginning of a new life, so have joyous funeral celebrations. Bodies are put in boats headed to the sea.

Soleclea and Tycur should be IMHO the cities most influenced by this culture.
Humans in the sindian-hulean area could also have been influenced by it.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:27 pm

Note, I'm posting all I have done so far but not be scared and take your time to read and comment :-)

Albai
- Have domesticated buffalos but do not eat them, they breed them for milk and cheese. Differently from their relatives in nowadays Darokin, they now have a religious prohibition from hunting bovines and most mammals, but they fish and hunt birds.
- Have a Moon Hunt cult, i.e. they hunt large and small mammals, mostly deers and rabbits, only every two months by night.
- They also worship swans as sacred animals of a sun cult
- Equality between males and females in life and government, but it's customary that the woman choose her husband. Adultery is scorned but not punished by law, there is a formal divorce.
- They build strong, rounded stone castles on hills. Male warriors are chosen as town leaders, have no unified government. Personal property is standard for items, houses and animals but have collective fields and grazing lands.
- Like to travel in neighbor lands, sometimes as mercenaries, sometimes as pirates, sometimes as traders. Have no money, use barter or foreign coinage.
- Have no written laws, female clerics often seat as judges or advise male leaders. There are punishments and compensations too. Culprits can avoid punishment performing tasks useful to the community.

I'd give Tarishish, Salkish and Aresh to this culture..
Not sure about Yidaru, could be coliman or mixed
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:09 pm

Colimans (I just discovered in HWA2 Nightrage that this isn't their real name, merry pirates gave it to them.. they are the stonecarvers culture, I'll call them Tudaka)

- have a ancient tradition of friendship with giants and faeries, almost a cult. They carve giants on hills and it's considered an honor for a village or a city to have giants or faeries residents or guests.
- Also worship the Artisan (Kagyar), have a positive attitude towards gnomes in particular, less so toward dwarves, due to the wasting.
- Ordana is their main immortal, are hostile toward Nyx and Ixion.
- Have a welcoming attitude toward all non human races, even reptilians. Mogrethian agents could hide among them, but they would always prefer giants and faeries (i.e. Grondheim) over others.
- Have a priest class, composed of males and females, the Stone masters, who discovered how to "plant" stones in the earth to keep the wasting at bay and augment magic. Their society is divided in "societies": priests, fishermen, farmers, herders, but no society is above the others. All are also warriors and stonecarvers when necessary or in turn.
- Villages and towns are ruled by a council that includes at least two members for each society.
- Have a retribution justice system, but the culprit is not imprisoned, rather he has to atone with fasting and/or work (usually carving or moving stones).
- Consider amber and bronze more precious than gold, gems and silver and heavily use them for decoration

I'd give Karisata and maybe Yidaru to that culture.. local queens could have been overthrown as part of a grondheim plot.. or/and night dragons could be involved as in your original idea.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:39 pm

Eokai (pre-Makai)

- Those on the coasts are great sailors but consider Protius the enemy of their main goddess, Ordana, and fear him
- The ones on the interior are developing a strong enmity with the Inti
- Music, usually played with harps, has a fundamental role in their culture
- The carve small statues in ivory or marble and wood totems to decorate homes and public spaces
- Build elaborate underground tombs
- Caves are painted and used as temples, priestess are superiors to priests
- Civil rule is for male warrior leaders that also administer retributive justice, but all of them have a female priest as advisor. Culprits of serious crimes are forced to enlist in the military.

Karituja and the other city state south of it should be their main centre
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Sturm » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:26 pm

Oteino (or Otei), descended from the first oltecs who came from Skothar

- Are accomplished sailors, have a cult of the sea and developed a friendship with several undersea people
- Have a pacifist culture but several abuses from blackmoorians and other populations developed a dark side in their culture that lead in the past to cannibalism and now to a growing cult of Thanatos
- Worship the great father of the Sun and the great mother dragon. Believed that everywhere the world is inhabited by spirits: priests know how to open gates to other planes.
- Had male chiefs with classes of noble warriors, male and female priests, commoners. The chiefs, and them only, can have multiple wives.
- Do not use clothes but paint their bodies
- Are great goldsmiths and artisans

I think they should live in the gulf who is north west of Tamoraz, and maybe in other places of the coast

Mawa

- Navigators have a cult status among them
- use little clothes but heavily tattoo their bodies
- are skilled astronomers
- believe land belong to the immortals, not men. The chiefs, chosen by the immortals or descended from them, manage the land.
- The Lords under the Sea (Koprus) have a special secret status between the immortal and the chiefs. It's taboo to mention them
- after the chiefs the other important class is composed of priests, navigators, wizards, dancers, carpenters, artisans, next there are common people and after them war captives and their descendants
- Have complex religious taboos and perform human sacrifice on certain occasion
- Have different funerary rites depending on class: chiefs are mummified as sacred relics, the second class is buried on land, commoners are buried at sea, captives are burned.

Should live in the islands around Colhador and Suthus. This could be useful for Adhuza too, I think...

Please anyone feel free to toss around more ideas to expand these cultures!
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:11 pm

Regarding the Stonecarvers/Colimans:
Sturm wrote:Yes, they should have disappeared and be only in the Hollow World from approx. 1800 BC, I think. Their culture could have began around 2900 BC if we assume the megaliths were a form of druidic magic useful to resist the wasting... they should also be the descendant of a similar, pre-GroF culture that spread in Brun and the Dawn Territories...

:o This is just such an awesome idea that I had to highlight it! If true, conquering these people (and eradicating their druidic magic) could have been high on the priority list of the Taymorans migrating into the area. After all, who would want to submit to vampiric rule (and the Ceremony of Blood) to protect themselves from the Wasting, when druidic magic would do the same (but without the bloodsucking)...
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby RobJN » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:03 pm

Chimpman wrote:Regarding the Stonecarvers/Colimans:
Sturm wrote:Yes, they should have disappeared and be only in the Hollow World from approx. 1800 BC, I think. Their culture could have began around 2900 BC if we assume the megaliths were a form of druidic magic useful to resist the wasting... they should also be the descendant of a similar, pre-GroF culture that spread in Brun and the Dawn Territories...

:o This is just such an awesome idea that I had to highlight it! If true, conquering these people (and eradicating their druidic magic) could have been high on the priority list of the Taymorans migrating into the area. After all, who would want to submit to vampiric rule (and the Ceremony of Blood) to protect themselves from the Wasting, when druidic magic would do the same (but without the bloodsucking)...

Hmm, I wonder if this might be entwined somehow with the ceremony that the Winter King was performing in the Lost Valley of Thorn's Mystara....?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Gecko » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:09 pm

Chimpman wrote:Hey Sturm, great ideas. Comments below:
Sturm wrote:- The Thonian colonists: escaped from the patriarchal and hierarchical Thonian empire because they had already some matriarchal elements but before Tayma the males had still much power.

Though culturally different, these two people could have migrated into the area together (coming from the northwest).


If they came from the Northwest but originally from Skothar, then they came the long, hard way....

Sturm wrote:Common Thonians cultural traits:
- Brought several knowledges from Skothar as phonetic writing, money, horses, advanced metallurgy, therefore considered themselves superior to other neighbour human populations.


I like the idea of them bringing in distinct technologies, but if these Thonians brought in horse domestication to Taymoran culture, why do the Atruaghins (descendents of your Oltei-Taymorans) not have the technology until Tahkati domesticates the horse and uses it to unite the Atruagi c.1675BC? Would the eventual destruction of Taymor been enough to set the people back so far as to have them lose the skill and concept of horse domestication?
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:25 am

Gecko wrote:If they came from the Northwest but originally from Skothar, then they came the long, hard way....

I think there are two migrations (well... the earlier one would probably be better categorized as a colonization). The first being pre-GRoF from Skothar to Brun. The second being post-GRoF from inland Brun to the coast. The second one is the one I was referring to when I said they came from the northwest (per PC3 - the Taymorans migrated to southern Brun from the northwest).

Gecko wrote:I like the idea of them bringing in distinct technologies, but if these Thonians brought in horse domestication to Taymoran culture, why do the Atruaghins (descendents of your Oltei-Taymorans) not have the technology until Tahkati domesticates the horse and uses it to unite the Atruagi c.1675BC? Would the eventual destruction of Taymor been enough to set the people back so far as to have them lose the skill and concept of horse domestication?

Yes, horses should be absent from the BC 2300 setting for exactly the reason you mention. We discussed reasons why horses might be absent in another thread (I think we were talking about the ancestors of the Ethengari) but the same reasoning could apply here as well. One reason might be that the people sacrificed all of their horses to power some spell that would keep them alive during the formative years after the Wasting began. Or perhaps horses are more susceptible to radiance poisoning than are humans and they all died shortly after the GRoF. Or perhaps all the grass and grains that they would have eaten in the area were killed off by the Wasting. Could be lots of reasons.
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Re: [Nation] Taymora - Empire of the Dead

Postby Chimpman » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:27 am

RobJN wrote:Hmm, I wonder if this might be entwined somehow with the ceremony that the Winter King was performing in the Lost Valley of Thorn's Mystara....?

You left out the obligatory :twisted: ...
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