New Thonia

Rebuilding the world in the wake of the Great Rain of Fire.

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New Thonia

Post by Havard » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:09 am

In the wake of the Great Rain of Fire, scattered refugees of the Thonian Empire seek refuge on the western coast of Skothar, trying to rebuild their culture.

Any thoughts on what's happening on New Thonia in 2300BC? Do they have any contact with the Shimmering Lands?

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Re: New Thonia

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:05 pm

I think it would make sense that they would. Possibly some trade - perhaps buying Moadreg expertise to maintain their remaining Blackmoorian devices (perhaps to keep the local climate a bit warmer, now that they're further north and don't want their agricultural base to crash completely). I think it likely that "new" Thonia was a marginal colony before the GRoF, but quickly became the centre of the new culture.

Maybe we could mine some of James Ruhland's work on Thonia that he did for the MA, and back-track it to BC 2300.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:05 pm

This is a great thread Havard, thanks for starting it!
Seer of Yhog wrote:I think it would make sense that they would. Possibly some trade - perhaps buying Moadreg expertise to maintain their remaining Blackmoorian devices (perhaps to keep the local climate a bit warmer, now that they're further north and don't want their agricultural base to crash completely). I think it likely that "new" Thonia was a marginal colony before the GRoF, but quickly became the centre of the new culture.
I love this idea, and the idea that the Moadreg may have some contact with them. We see many cultures coping with the aftereffects (rad poisoning, etc) of the GRoF, and one thing I'd love to explore is how did the Thonian survivors cope?
Seer of Yhog wrote:Maybe we could mine some of James Ruhland's work on Thonia that he did for the MA, and back-track it to BC 2300.
Good idea. Here are some articles I was able to dredge up from the Vaults:
Thonia (Kingdom of, aka Empire of). - by James Ruhland
History of the Isle of Dawn - by James Mishler
An Extended Blackmoor Timeline - by Zomp (has some interesting info about the Comeback Inn that I was not aware of)
Ethnographic History of Mystara - Neathar
Mystara at the Time of Blackmoor - by Havard (not specifically about Thonia, but has some great info on other nations/cultures of the time that we could draw on).
Kingdom of Højgylden (pronounced Hoygilden) - by Isabella Sarikhan
Bahldaraat-Khor - by Geoff Gander

I'm sure there's a tone more, but for now this is what I've found (and besides it will take me quite a bit of time to go through it all ;) ).
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:12 pm

Chimpman wrote:I love this idea, and the idea that the Moadreg may have some contact with them. We see many cultures coping with the aftereffects (rad poisoning, etc) of the GRoF, and one thing I'd love to explore is how did the Thonian survivors cope?
I suppose it all depends on how the technomantic devices worked. All the timelines say that Blackmoorian devices exploded - but I think that only the devices connected to the prime Blackmoorian nucleus/reactor would have gone nova. There may have been backup systems developed for just such an event (unfortunately, no one predicted that it would be as bad as it was).

So, for the Thonians (those few who lived far enough away from the blast), there may have been a number of working Blackmoorian devices that may have shielded them from the worst of the blast (I'm thinking some modification to the Federation armour from Temple of the Frog, but reconfigured to be a sort of hazmat suit), or helped them flee the area quickly (basically one or more airplanes that could have ferried a large number of people away, and then crashed).

The facility/colony to which the Thonians fled was probably shielded somehow (maybe it was originally a facility like Urzud), but once the worst of the GRoF passed, and it became clear that the world had changed, the survivors turned it onto a new city.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:51 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:The facility/colony to which the Thonians fled was probably shielded somehow (maybe it was originally a facility like Urzud), but once the worst of the GRoF passed, and it became clear that the world had changed, the survivors turned it onto a new city.
I'm reading through the material now, and strangely enough James' description of New Thonia resembles Urzud in many ways. I like that idea.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:52 pm

It sounds like that would work best, then. If I'm not mistaken, the locations we're thinking of may not have been on the edge of the Beastman Wastes, but it could have been close to a hostile nation.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:17 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:It sounds like that would work best, then. If I'm not mistaken, the locations we're thinking of may not have been on the edge of the Beastman Wastes, but it could have been close to a hostile nation.
Hmmm... we're talking about the Bay of Thorin region right? Well, we would have had the proto-Alphatians living there at the time of Blackmoor (whoever they were). Another thought that comes to me though... since I've been spending some time with M5 and reviewing some of Cthulhudrew's earlier work, perhaps an expanding Phase Spider empire (under the control of Arachne Prime) could fit the bill?

Could Alphatia have been a battle ground contended by the Thonian Empire and the Arachnid Empire?
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:21 pm

The people living in Proto-Alphatia would have been the Yanifey, who we've already cast as being willing middlemen in the slave trade. They may, at some earlier time, have attacked remote Blackmoorian/Thonian settlements, too.

The idea of the phase spiders playing a role is a good one, though!
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:34 pm

Here's another idea based off of some of Havard's previous work - Blackmoor Regional Maps.

Am I right in assuming that Thorin bay would be in the region then labeled as Goblin Bay? If so, the city of Thorin would be in an excellent position to defend from attacks against both the Afridhi and the Skandaharians, and also be in a position to launch expeditions anywhere to the west. Since James mentions a protected bay in his write-up, this could have been the very purpose. Perhaps it was the base for the western Blackmoorian naval fleet at one time?

Of course, tt probably wouldn't have been established until sometime after the above map was drawn. In other words, the borders would have to had shifted to some degree to get a Blackmoorian outpost to that location, but I think it makes sense in the long term.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:38 pm

That's where I imagined the Thorin region would be, so that works out quite nicely. So it would be the Afridhi and Skandaharians - perfect reason to build a base.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Havard » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:05 am

Chimpman wrote:Here's another idea based off of some of Havard's previous work - Blackmoor Regional Maps.

Am I right in assuming that Thorin bay would be in the region then labeled as Goblin Bay? If so, the city of Thorin would be in an excellent position to defend from attacks against both the Afridhi and the Skandaharians, and also be in a position to launch expeditions anywhere to the west. Since James mentions a protected bay in his write-up, this could have been the very purpose. Perhaps it was the base for the western Blackmoorian naval fleet at one time?

Of course, tt probably wouldn't have been established until sometime after the above map was drawn. In other words, the borders would have to had shifted to some degree to get a Blackmoorian outpost to that location, but I think it makes sense in the long term.
That map details the political bordes ca BC4000. Alot will have changed over the following 1000 years prior to the GRoF, although I do suspect that the Skandaharians will still be around. I like the idea of a Blackmoorian naval base in this area.

In the years following the GRoF, I assume that the Thonians would be divided between those factions seeking to rebuild the Blackmoorian civilization and those believing that technology is what caused this doom, turning towards a more simple way of life, enhanced by magic and immortal worship.

I am wondering where the dwarves who named the Bay, Thorin came from. Were they planted there by Kagyar, or were they Kogolor-descended survivors?

Elves (Westryn and Cumasti) and Fey are also likely among those migrating into the area. Possibly even Treants and Gakkaraks...

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Re: New Thonia

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:43 am

Some time ago I wrote a timeline for the Mystaran Almanac Skothar group, and I proposed a timeline for the Bay of Thorin region. If I can find it, I'll post it here - there may be information that could be used.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:48 pm

I found it. I'll post it here, but be warned - it's long. Feel free to pillage this:

**********************

History of the Realms of Thorin:

BC 1300: An expedition of dwarves from eastern Brun, seeking new lands to settle in the face of steadily rising human and humanoid populations, lands on the shores of a large bay in western Skothar, north of the large peninsula that will become known as Esterhold. Their leader, Thorin Rockharrower, calls the region the Bay of Thorin.

BC 1250: Word reaches many dwarvish clans in eastern Brun of the rich deposits of minerals to be had on the distant eastern continent of Skothar. Over the subsequent years, a steady trickle of dwarvish settlers finds its way to the Thorin Mountains, which lie east of the Bay of Thorin.

BC 1085: The dwarvish settlers found the kingdom of Kharthad. Thorin is named their king, in recognition of his deeds and leadership ability.

BC 700: An expedition of Ystmarhavner sailors lands on the shores of the Bay of Thorin, eager to seek out new lands to settle.

BC 687: After establishing several homesteads along the coast, parties are sent further inland.

BC 684: Ystmarhavner explorers, led by Kavli Thorson, encounter a small group of dwarvish miners returning home, bearing gold. The explorers attack the dwarves, killing most of them and stealing their ore, but a handful manage to escape.

BC 683: A large dwarvish army marches toward the coast, descending upon the Ystmarhavner settlements. Their leader, a dwarvish lord named Kalnor Stormbattler, orders the human settlers to make reparations for the losses suffered the previous year, and to return the stolen ore. Almost as one, the settlers refuse, starting the Battle of Thorin.

BC 681: The Battle of Thorin ends. The surviving humans settlers are forced to leave Skothar, after promising never to return. After the last humans leave, the victorious dwarves raze what remains of the homesteads.

BC 670: Arnulf, Jarl of Ystmarhavn, after hearing the tales of the colonists returning from Skothar, and deliberating the matter, orders the preparations for a campaign against the dwarves, and for the colonization of the Bay of Thorin region.

BC 655: The first Thorinian War begins, as over a hundred longships land on the shores of the Bay of Thorin, and thousands of reavers, eager for plunder, plunge inland towards the dwarves.

BC 650: The dwarvish town of Dalgar, which lay in the western foothills of the Thorin Mountains, is sacked by the Ystmarhavners. No one is spared.

BC 648: The Ystmarhavner invaders mass outside the gates of the citadel of Khoranad, which guards the entrance to the heartlands of the dwarvish kingdom of Kharthad. After several assaults, the invaders realize that they cannot penetrate the citadel’s defences, and decide to fall back. Before they can do this, they are attacked from the rear by a host of dwarves, which had been waiting for the humans to waste their energies against the fortress. All but a handful of the invaders are killed, and those surviving are taken prisoner.

BC 645: The newly-established Ystmarhavner colony of Arnulfsstad is approached by thousands of battle-ready dwarves. Their general demands to see the town’s leader, who, in coming to meet the dwarves, is shown the survivors of the invasion force who had ventured inland. In chains and miserable, they plead with the town leader to heed the words of the dwarves, and leave Skothar in peace. Seeing what has become of Ystmarhavn’s bravest warriors, and seeing the obvious might of the dwarves, the leader agrees to remove his people.

BC 500: After being largely forgotten for over a century, the jarls of Ystmarhavn turn their attention to Skothar once more, and humiliating defeat their nation suffered there at the hands of the dwarves. A second invasion force is sent out, this one even larger than the one before.

BC 499: Arnulfsstad is rebuilt, and other coastal dominions towards the north are founded as well. The Ystmarhavners decide not to press inland immediately, deciding to cement their hold on the coast, first.

BC 470: By this time Ystmarhavn has founded four dominions along the coastal region of the Bay of Thorin: Arnulfsstad in the south, Alvard in the north, Hargon between them, and Tyrsdalen inland and southeast of the others. Contact with Ystmarhavn is intermittent at best, and plans are made to invade the lands of the dwarves.

BC 467: The second Thorinian War begins. Unlike the previous time, the Ystmarhavners have had time to become accustomed to the land, so that in combat, they are no longer at a disadvantage in terms of strategies. The initial battles are in the favour of the humans, as their frontiers creep steadily eastwards, overwhelming any towns or villages in their way.

BC 452: By this time the Ystmarhavner colonists have conquered all of the lowlands between the Thorin Mountains and the bay. A great deal of land is being used for farming and pastures, and those dwarves who remain in the human-dominated realms are forced to work the land and mine the mountains. A vast store of mineral wealth soon fills the coffers of the local jarls, and new dominions are founded further inland.

BC 449: The Ystmarhavner colonies have now developed into 15 realms: Sardaney, Alvard, Hargon, Arnulfsstad, Tyrsdalen, Emsborg, Skogstad, Alsensford, Tuborg, Olmsborg, Thalsen, Svalsbergen, Keldar, Kerland, and Nordmark.

BC 438: Hearing of the plight of his brethren living under the harsh rule of the invaders, the dwarvish king Glorin orders emissaries to be sent to neighbouring lands, to seek aid against the humans.

BC 435: A pact is sealed between the Jennites and the dwarves. In exchange for their aid in destroying the Ystmarhavner colonies, the Jennites will be allowed to loot and burn with impunity, and take whatever riches they desire.

BC 433: The bustling port town of Arnulfsstad is invaded by a mounted horde of screaming Jennites, who quickly cut down the resistance sent against them, and proceed to loot and burn everything in sight. Word spreads quickly of this event, and within days calls to mobilize all able-bodied men ring throughout the realms. This marks the beginning of the third Thorinian War.

BC 432: Tyrsdalen and Hargon suffer successive waves of Jennite invasions, though they do not fall.

BC 431: The formerly dwarvish town of Kelmad, in the foothills of the Thorin Mountains, is liberated by a large force of dwarvish soldiers. The realm of Svalsbergen is no more.

BC 412: The reigning jarl of Ystmarhavn grants a private audience to a visiting lesser jarl from the Skotharian colonies. He learns of the ongoing wars against the dwarves, and against the fearsome Jennites. Though Ystmarhavn has not had regular contact with the colonies for many years, he feels he cannot let his countrymen be abandoned, especially when there is glory to be won on the fields of battle. The next day, he publicly announces a fourth expedition to Skothar.

BC 409: The defenders of the embattled capital of Hargon rejoice at the sight of almost one hundred longships approaching from the west. The invading Jennites, seeing the ships, decide to retreat with what treasure they have, rather than face destruction at the hands of a fresh force.

BC 400: By this time the invading Jennites have largely been turned back, though at a great cost in terms of lives. Many of the dominions founded by the colonists are no more: Arnulfsstad has been destroyed, and Tyrsdalen nearly so. Southern Hargon has been devastated, and its capital is largely in ruins. The dominions of Keldar, Olmsborg, and Nordmark have vanished, as well. Only Alvard and Sardaney remained largely untouched, owing to the buffer states between them and most of the conflicts. All of them are largely depopulated. The Ystmarhavner realms are now roughly two-thirds their size at their height.

BC 391: Realizing that the Jennites have removed themselves from the wars against the Ystmarhavners, King Glorin orders his armies to march against the humans, while they are still weak.

BC 389: Emsborg, the easternmost surviving Ystmarhavner dominion, falls to the dwarves.

BC 387: The jarl of Tyrsdalen secretly requests a meeting with the dwarvish generals beforehand, in which he offers to share what he knows of the Ystmarhavners’ military strategies and weaknesses in exchange for the safety of his realm. The dwarves, suspicious of him, accept his offer.

BC 383: The Battle of Skogstad is fought, in which the dwarves score a decisive victory against the humans. Many other human dominions have also been overrun by this time. The information provided by the jarl of Tyrsdalen was instrumental in these successes.

BC 380: The Hargonian army is routed in the defence of Kalsen, the new capital of the dominion. Those who survive the assault flee northwards, into Alvard.

BC 378: At the Battle of Alsensford, the combined armies of Alvard, Hargon, and Thalsen are soundly defeated by the dwarves. The victorious King Glorin offers mercy to the defeated humans, provided they renounce all ties to Ystmarhavn, and never venture towards the Thorin Mountains. Furthermore, all surviving human realms must pay an annual tribute to the dwarves, until the practice is deemed no longer necessary. Seeing that this is their one chance at survival, the surviving jarls agree to these terms. For its aid, Tyrsdalen is exempt from having to pay the tribute, though this is kept secret.

BC 300: By this time the Realms of Thorin (as the region has become calling itself) have stabilized. It consists of Alvard and Sardaney along the coast, with Thalsen, Tyrsdalen, and the Duchy of Kerland forming the interior dominions. The region that was once Hargon is now divided between Alvard, Thalsen, and Tyrsdalen. The regions that once comprised Olmsborg, Tuborg, and Skogstad are also claimed by the surviving realms, but none of them have the population or the military strength to fully annex them.

BC 250: By this time the expeditions to Skothar have largely been forgotten in Ystmarhavn.

BC 193: A horde of Jennites sweep northwestwards from the Steppes of Jen, displaced by recent Alphatian advances to the south, in Esterhold. Though the Ystmarhavner-descended realms have recovered from the Thorinian Wars, they are still hard-pressed by this new assault. Tyrsdalen is conquered by the Jennites, as is most of Alvard and western Thalsen, and all of the Hargonian Plains. Only Sardaney and Kerland manage to hold off the invaders entirely. King Glorin II of Kharthad sends aid to the beleaguered humans, and he declares that the annual tribute is no longer necessary.

BC 181: After many years of hard campaigning, the last of the Jennites is driven out of the region. King Glorin II proposes the construction of several fortresses along the southern reaches of the realms, to guard from future Jennite incursions. The human rulers agree to this plan, and a period of co-operation between humans and dwarves begins.

AC 486: A large fleet of sailing ships arrives from the west, landing on the coast north of Sardaney. The newcomers - an entire royal household, its retainers, a small host of soldiers, and several thousand commoners - claim a swath of territory for their own, and quickly set out establishing a settlement. This group, originally from the kingdom of Essuria, left their homeland during a period of civil strife, and sought a new home.

AC 487: The Essurians officially found the Kingdom of Arathelle. Relations are concluded with the other realms in the region. The capital city, the port of Fal Arin, is founded as well.

AC 526: Arathelle has expanded as far east as the Tuborg Lowlands. It annexes those lands, and proceeds to assimilate those people still living in that area. The other nations, seeing their western neighbour grow in strength with every passing year, begin to grow nervous.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by OldDawg » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:33 am

Chimpman wrote:Here's another idea based off of some of Havard's previous work - Blackmoor Regional Maps.

Am I right in assuming that Thorin bay would be in the region then labeled as Goblin Bay?
I would say that the Thorinn Bay is better identified with the central sea of the Wilderlands map, and not the water labeled Goblin Bay. Map overlays are almost spot on, and if I ever get a new place to post files, I'll link you an example.

In GazF, the northern coast would eventually correspond to the Thonian Empire's Western Marches, south of western Peshwah lands. When the Afridhi launched their assault on Mohacs and the core of the Empire, the Western Marches were cut off for a time. Esterhold's Alphatian Sea coast is part of the client-state Lumbrai (M-Numidia), which ran the Oltec slave trade until the institution was ended by the Great War with elves. Central Esterhold would have been split between the two powers. The Steppes of Jen would have been part of the Southern Marches of the Empire, and the Minean Coast would have been part of the Colonial Marches.

The GRoF should have a kill line approximately at the Helskir Landbridge (fallout deaths, not instantaneous), which places the Bay of Thorinn clearly in its kill zone. ex-pat Thonians or extended imperials would have had their best shot at surviving on what is now Esterhold's southern coast, protected by the mountains and high plateau of the central peninsula. Their biggest threats would have come from post-Oltec ex-slaves and native Bellisarians moving to Skothar (e.g. Jennites and related peoples), southern survivors of Lumbrai, north migrating Tanagoro-related people, and internal divisions.

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Re: New Thonia

Post by OldDawg » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:49 am

With regard to dwarves, I see a couple of problems in the timeline (or not, depending on your continuity preferences).

1) the dwarves leave Rockhome well before the stated commencement of their exploratory period after the Battle of Sardal Pass. [Loktal Ironshield's rule of the Shires has the same problem]
2) they are also sufficiently insular and the world technologically primative at this time, that I am hard pressed to see a line of communication that would give them information about the mines of Skothar.

One work around is to take the dates and fast forward them towards the modern era. Any dwarves in the area could be tied to the dwarves of Alphatia (going with the conclusion from population figures that they were there before the formal invitation was offered). Another is that the dwarves of the area are not rockborn dwarves, but are tied to an old world lineage that survived the GRoF elsewhere, e.g. in the various Southern and Colonial Marches mentioned in the post above. Or they could merely be "dwarves", i.e. humans that are short and stocky.

Just some thoughts.

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Re: New Thonia

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:27 pm

OldDawg wrote:One work around is to take the dates and fast forward them towards the modern era. Any dwarves in the area could be tied to the dwarves of Alphatia (going with the conclusion from population figures that they were there before the formal invitation was offered). Another is that the dwarves of the area are not rockborn dwarves, but are tied to an old world lineage that survived the GRoF elsewhere, e.g. in the various Southern and Colonial Marches mentioned in the post above. Or they could merely be "dwarves", i.e. humans that are short and stocky.
I think the best option, if we want to preserve the dwarven element for use in the BC 2300 period, is to make the local dwarves be of Skotharian origin. They would be distantly related to the Moadreg, but would be clans that moved in other directions. If they possess some technomantic devices, they could have sporadic communication with their increasingly reclusive cousins, but this would have fallen off before long.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:27 pm

OldDawg wrote:
Chimpman wrote:Here's another idea based off of some of Havard's previous work - Blackmoor Regional Maps.

Am I right in assuming that Thorin bay would be in the region then labeled as Goblin Bay?
I would say that the Thorinn Bay is better identified with the central sea of the Wilderlands map, and not the water labeled Goblin Bay. Map overlays are almost spot on, and if I ever get a new place to post files, I'll link you an example.
I'm not so familiar with the Wilderlands setting so any map link you can provide would be great. The reason I assumed the above was mainly due to the 72mph Dawn of Empires map, which has the bay above the Esterhold Peninsula labeled as "Bay of Thorin" - which should correspond to Goblin Bay in Havard's map... unless I'm confusing something (which may be possible).
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Re: New Thonia

Post by OldDawg » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:07 am

Chimpman wrote: I'm not so familiar with the Wilderlands setting so any map link you can provide would be great. The reason I assumed the above was mainly due to the 72mph Dawn of Empires map, which has the bay above the Esterhold Peninsula labeled as "Bay of Thorin" - which should correspond to Goblin Bay in Havard's map... unless I'm confusing something (which may be possible).
I think there is a mis-correspondence. First look at the bottom map that Havard links to. Note that the Janvarian Sea (is that a BM or WL term?) is the sea between Qeodhar and the Yannifey Chain. The Goblin Bay is a continuation of that body NE to the land bridge.

Now Look at this map of entire outer world or the 72mph map. Assuming the Janivarian Sea is as above, that puts the Goblin Bay due north of Alphatia just past the edge of the shown area (the latter) or between the arctic archipelago and the Nentsun Peninsula (the former).

Now back to Havard's map. See the inland sea opposite the Esterhold Shallows? That's the Bay of Thorinn. All the political labels that he's written in that area come from the Wilderlands setting. He has taken creative liscene to add land closing off the Bay (e.g. Elphand, Land of Beasts), and opening up waterways in the south. (Compare this to the HW pre-GRoF map).

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Re: New Thonia

Post by Chimpman » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:02 pm

Thanks OD, I think I can see what you're talking about. I'm still having trouble locating Goblin Bay on a modern Mystaran map though. Would this mean that in modern times Goblin bay has changed shape and been mostly filled in? The coastlines that make up Thorin's Bay/Havard's Inner Sea are going to go through some major changes after the GRoF - which is also fine. I like the idea that the map will change drastically after the axis shift and all of the geological upheaval that brings with it.
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Re: New Thonia

Post by Havard » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:35 pm

OldDawg wrote:One work around is to take the dates and fast forward them towards the modern era. Any dwarves in the area could be tied to the dwarves of Alphatia (going with the conclusion from population figures that they were there before the formal invitation was offered). Another is that the dwarves of the area are not rockborn dwarves, but are tied to an old world lineage that survived the GRoF elsewhere, e.g. in the various Southern and Colonial Marches mentioned in the post above. Or they could merely be "dwarves", i.e. humans that are short and stocky.
I have always liked the idea of dwarves from a different lineage (ie not from Rockhome) myself, but the concept has seemed to be fairly controversial in the community. Of course, this is BC2300, so perhaps they were a clan who survived the GRoF, but perished in the centuries that followed? (Perhaps later to be replaced by Rockhome dwarves?


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Re: New Thonia

Post by OldDawg » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:54 pm

Chimpman wrote:Thanks OD, I think I can see what you're talking about. I'm still having trouble locating Goblin Bay on a modern Mystaran map though. Would this mean that in modern times Goblin bay has changed shape and been mostly filled in?
Look at the Master's Map. Goblin Bay is the southern part of the waters between the Arctic Islands and region 21 (Nentsun).
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