[Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Rebuilding the world in the wake of the Great Rain of Fire.

Moderator: Seer of Yhog

[Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:49 pm

We've spoken about this in a few other threads, but with all the other things going on right now (foremost among those, Bruce Heard's blog treatment for Alphatia) I felt like it might be a good time to discuss what might be going on in that area of the world during this era.

To get things started, I'll quote a few posts from Bruce's Hello thread (these are on page 7).

Chimpman wrote:
Ambreville wrote:The Shadow Dwarves might have reached the caverns of Alphatia at about the same way Rockhome dwarves did ...

Or (again if Denwarf-Hurgon was a Blackmoorian era settlement) it could mean that the Shadow Dwarves were there all along.
Or they might be an offshoot of the Mordrigswerg (one that is a tad bit more social and capable of building a fairly strong society).

Ambreville wrote:...and it implies the source tribe might be even more important than its Alphatian offshoot. I was thinking that these dwarves might have been altered over time by magic run amok on the surface (Geoff Gander's Orzafeth, which is planned as a potential development for Frisland.) Orzafeth's chronology might not be suitable though. More later on this.

I agree. Exploring who and what the Shadow Dwarves are could form the basis for a complete campaign. I like the idea that they are more magically inclined than normal dwarves, and they somehow over the centuries this has twisted them into something not completely dwarven anymore. :twisted:

I've already started doing a little speculation on this in the Shimmering Lands thread, where I discuss the dwarven migration from Skothar to Brun. This could also mean that there is a small dwarven population living in the Stoutfellow region during the BC 2300 era... perhaps these are the ancestors of Bruce's Shadow Dwarves. :mrgreen:

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Ambreville wrote:...and it implies the source tribe might be even more important than its Alphatian offshoot. I was thinking that these dwarves might have been altered over time by magic run amok on the surface (Geoff Gander's Orzafeth, which is planned as a potential development for Frisland.) Orzafeth's chronology might not be suitable though. More later on this.


There may be a possible crossover. The wizards of Orzafeth did their deeds relatively recently (i.e., within the past 1000 years), but there were other people living in that region before, whom the Yanifey tried to keep down for a variety of good reasons. That part of Alphatia has been soaking up some unsavoury magics for a while. Can't say any more. :twisted:

So the wizards of Orzafeth would have been around circa AC 0... quite far from the BC 2300 era... but perhaps they were following the practices of earlier inhabitants of the region. Any ideas who those might be?+

Any other ideas about who might be living here at the time?
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:18 am

Chimpman wrote:So the wizards of Orzafeth would have been around circa AC 0... quite far from the BC 2300 era... but perhaps they were following the practices of earlier inhabitants of the region. Any ideas who those might be?+


No idea at all! Really! ^_^

*no, they weren't Carnifex
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!
User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby agathokles » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:29 am

Perhaps the Fey . Marco Dalmonte had an idea of Fey being the original inhabitants of Friesland, and a similar idea could be used for Stoutfellow if needed.

GP
agathokles
Blue Dragon
 
Posts: 6173
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:42 pm
Location: Milan, Italy

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Havard » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:01 pm

Chimpman wrote:Any other ideas about who might be living here at the time?


Trying to tie things in with my Blackmoor Era material, I have Alphatia at that time known as Janivarsland, after a Skandaharian explorer (Raiders of the West).
I see some parallells here to R/W Viking explorations of Iceland, Greenland and Newfoundland (Vinland). Probably there were Skandaharian settlements on the Alphatian continent (Janivarsland) as well, these later becoming the descendants of the Jannifey.

Most likely the Jannifey occupied parts of the Alphatian mainland in the centuries before Alphatia's arrival. Possibly this continent could have been a colony of an independend Skandaharian Kingdom during the height of the Blackmoor Era, leaving all kinds of possibilities open...

As GP mentions, Fey would likely have a presence here, as would Giants.

-Havard

The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.
User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
 
Posts: 16480
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Location: Norway

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:35 pm

All good ideas! So... so far we have:
1) Remnant dwarves from the Skothar migration
2) Not Carnifex... ;)
3) Fey - who are probably some of the original inhabitants (or at least go way back)
4) Jannify (descended from Skandaharian explorers)
5) Giants
6) Shadow kingdom (Added from below)

After having looked at Bruce's 8mph maps, I've realized that Alphatia is essentially the same amount of land that we've been dealing with in the Known World... so there is a ton of space there! Of course now I'm chomping at the bit to tackle a BC 2300 version of those maps... but that will have to wait until I finish with the Shimmering Lands Gaz ;).

In the mean time, here is a snippet from Bruce's blog about Theranderol:
Curiously, some centuries long past, a celestial body crashed and dug a two-hundred-mile-long gouge through the earth. Ever since, it became a nearly-impassable, pestilential border. One might wonder about the fortresses guarding its cliffs. There was a time, soon after the crash, when horrid creatures grew from the gouge's scorched soil and began raiding local villages. No one could explain it. In time, they were defeated, and died out. At least, it's the official version. Rumor has it, however, that these strange beings moved below ground to rebuild their forces. Judging from the soldiers still holding the forts and patrolling the edges of the Great Gouge, one might conclude the old affair was never wholly settled.

So based on this description, I think that the Great Gouge (and possibly also the three Pits in Arogansa) was something that formed after Alphatian Landfall. So these features likely would not be on a BC 2300 map.
Last edited by Chimpman on Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:23 pm

Quick question - where exactly was Orzafeth located? I can't find any map with its label on it. I know the city wouldn't have been around in BC 2300, but maybe it was built upon some older ruins? Anyway, if anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Seer of Yhog » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:46 am

I'm writing something that will answer that question, and hopefully many others. The short answer is that Orzafeth would be (mostly) in central-eastern Frisland. Another chunk was just over the modern border with Floating Ar. The capital, also named Orzafeth, would be in eastern Frisland.
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!
User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:49 am

Some info about Eadrin (again gleaned from Bruce's blog):
In much earlier times, when the Eadriner dynasty was still young, its kin had hailed from the Shye-Lawr, fair-skinned and silver-haired. They’d explored the region and discovered a strange lake, which they quickly named The Well of Shadows, for dark beasts emerged from its depths during moonless nights.
...
From artifacts brought back and what could be pieced together over time, it was understood that the dark, twisted passages led to the Vortex Dimension. Discoveries unveiled the existence of Old Ones, fragments of what Immortals knew about them, and most importantly, rudiments of Shadow Magic.


Then from history compiled in the GazH project:
BC 800
Sylvan Realm -> Alfheim (Mealiden leads his followers across Rainbow to found Alfheim)
Sylvan Realm -> Callarii (split from Mealiden colonists)
Sylvan Realm -> Shiye (split from Mealiden colonists under Eiryndul, take Rainbow Path to Alphatia)
Sylvan Realm -> Trueflower clan (Ilsundal followers left on Great Escarpment on IoD - M5)

BC 500 ???
Shiye -> Shye-Lawr (declared elven kingdom)


So we can infer a few things from the above information.
1) The Kingdom of Eadrin was established by elves from Shye-Lawr sometime after BC 500.
2) Before that time, shadowy creatures roamed the lands of Eadrin.

What could have been going on around the Well of Shadows circa BC 2300? One idea I had was that the pre-Alphatian natives were busy fighting off shadow spawn from the Well of Shadows when the Alphers arrived on the scene. Perhaps their numbers were thin from long decades of fighting and the Alphers took advantage of that, or perhaps the Alphers themselves offered help with the shadowy attackers and then turned on the natives afterwards. But that's way in the future... so what could possibly be happening there now?

If the Well of Shadows became active shortly after the GRoF, then perhaps the shadow denizens are just now emerging from the Vortex Plane. In BC 2300 the southeast portion of Alphatia could be dominated by a shadowy kingdom of some sort. What do you think?
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby RobJN » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:00 am

Chimpman wrote:Some info about Eadrin (again gleaned from Bruce's blog):
In much earlier times, when the Eadriner dynasty was still young, its kin had hailed from the Shye-Lawr, fair-skinned and silver-haired. They’d explored the region and discovered a strange lake, which they quickly named The Well of Shadows, for dark beasts emerged from its depths during moonless nights.
...
From artifacts brought back and what could be pieced together over time, it was understood that the dark, twisted passages led to the Vortex Dimension. Discoveries unveiled the existence of Old Ones, fragments of what Immortals knew about them, and most importantly, rudiments of Shadow Magic.


Then from history compiled in the GazH project:
BC 800
Sylvan Realm -> Alfheim (Mealiden leads his followers across Rainbow to found Alfheim)
Sylvan Realm -> Callarii (split from Mealiden colonists)
Sylvan Realm -> Shiye (split from Mealiden colonists under Eiryndul, take Rainbow Path to Alphatia)
Sylvan Realm -> Trueflower clan (Ilsundal followers left on Great Escarpment on IoD - M5)

BC 500 ???
Shiye -> Shye-Lawr (declared elven kingdom)


So we can infer a few things from the above information.
1) The Kingdom of Eadrin was established by elves from Shye-Lawr sometime after BC 500.
2) Before that time, shadowy creatures roamed the lands of Eadrin.

What could have been going on around the Well of Shadows circa BC 2300? One idea I had was that the pre-Alphatian natives were busy fighting off shadow spawn from the Well of Shadows when the Alphers arrived on the scene. Perhaps their numbers were thin from long decades of fighting and the Alphers took advantage of that, or perhaps the Alphers themselves offered help with the shadowy attackers and then turned on the natives afterwards. But that's way in the future... so what could possibly be happening there now?

If the Well of Shadows became active shortly after the GRoF, then perhaps the shadow denizens are just now emerging from the Vortex Plane. In BC 2300 the southeast portion of Alphatia could be dominated by a shadowy kingdom of some sort. What do you think?

A Shadow Kingdom would make for an awesome place to adventure... and make for some cool ruins in both Landfall-era Alphatia and "present day" AC 1000
Rob
Thorn's Chronicle: The Thread Index|Thorn's Chronicle Blog
My articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Follow Thorn's Chronicle on Facebook | G+ | twitter
User avatar
RobJN
Dire Flumph
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:06 pm

RobJN wrote:A Shadow Kingdom would make for an awesome place to adventure... and make for some cool ruins in both Landfall-era Alphatia and "present day" AC 1000

Yes :twisted: and I'm thinking that we have plenty of time for many such kingdoms to rise and fall. Let's say that the Well of Shadows becomes active with the GRoF (we have some precedence for this - the World Mountain is infused with the Spirit World in BC 1700 with the LRoF, so this could be a similar phenomenon).

BC 3000: Well of Shadows formed
BC 1000: Alphatian Landfall
BC 500: Shye-Lawr founded
circa BC 400 - BC 300: Elves from Shye-Lawr found Eadrin.

That gives us 2000 years before the Alphers show up to play around with the area. My initial thoughts are that these "shadow creatures" have tried to invade the world several times over the past couple millennia, and each time they have been pushed back/defeated. This last attempt they have tried a different tactic - bonding with the natives to "rule from within". Before that however, could have been an altogether different story.

Now working backwards from Alphatian Landfall:

BC 1100 - BC 900: Last Shadow incursion was fought and pushed back by pre-Alphatian populace (perhaps combined with Alphatians after BC 1000)

BC 1200 - BC 2200: We have 1000 years in the middle to work with - plenty of time for a shadow kingdom to rise and fall at least once... possibly twice more.

BC 2300: This is 700 years after the GRoF. If the Well opens then (in BC 3000), give the shadow inhabitants a few hundred years to explore the new world, followed by a few centuries of establishing a beachfront kingdom, and you should have a thriving Shadow Civilization at this time. Just in time to come into conflict with the fey and Jannify explorers from the north.

BC 2300 era Alphatia is beginning to feel like a land caught in a vice... we have the Shadow Kingdom in the south, and the precedents of Orzafeth (not Carnifex) in the north. I wonder if there would be conflict between the two... with the Jannify and everyone else caught in the middle.
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby RobJN » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:53 pm

Speaking of shadowy beings fusing with the "natives".... Is there a BECMID&D version of the Shade? If not, this might be a possible origin for them.

Darkness vs. Light: I should think the Gate of Light would be something the Shadow Kingdom would either want for itself, or want destroyed, at any cost.

Woud they have any ties at all with Taymora? Or with the Troll Queen? Elves/fey twisted by Shadow would make for a very interesting culture. Those black dragonstones have to come from somewhere, don't they?
Rob
Thorn's Chronicle: The Thread Index|Thorn's Chronicle Blog
My articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Follow Thorn's Chronicle on Facebook | G+ | twitter
User avatar
RobJN
Dire Flumph
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Cthulhudrew » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:33 pm

RobJN wrote:Speaking of shadowy beings fusing with the "natives".... Is there a BECMID&D version of the Shade? If not, this might be a possible origin for them.


There are Shades, but they're a different creature than the AD&D version- they're undead creatures not unlike ghosts (technically, they are part of the "phantom" group). That doesn't necessarily disqualify there being another Shade-like being, though. (And, oddly enough, in BECMI, Shadows weren't undead creatures, though they are and have been throughout AD&D and later editions.)
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image
User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:13 pm

RobJN wrote:Darkness vs. Light: I should think the Gate of Light would be something the Shadow Kingdom would either want for itself, or want destroyed, at any cost.

Yeah, I was thinking about this too. So far I've been tying the radiance in with the spirit world. The World Mountain is formed during the BC 1700 blast (bringing parts of the spirit world into Ethengar). And IIRC, somewhere it mentions the Azcans living under the Great Plateau as having ties with the spirit world.

The Gate of Light would be another example - a radiance artifact that draws shades/spirits to it through its opening (actually a gate to the singular point in time of the GRoF). I've also been toying with the idea that Mictlan (or whatever will one day become Mictlan) also has a similar tie with the radiance and the spirit world.

If the Well of Shadows is a naturally formed "radiance artifact" then it makes sense that similar beings would be drawn to it - these with a particularly shadowy bend. Also if it is a naturally occurring artifact, then perhaps that means that it is dissipating over time? This might suggest that it is much larger in BC 2300 than its AC 1000 era size. It would be kind of fun to modify Bruce's map so that the "Eadrin region" is covered in shadow terrain.

RobJN wrote:Woud they have any ties at all with Taymora? Or with the Troll Queen? Elves/fey twisted by Shadow would make for a very interesting culture. Those black dragonstones have to come from somewhere, don't they?

Hmmm... for Taymora I'm not sure. The distances seem too far - and I like the idea of giving Taymora a fairly independent background story related to the Sacrifice of Blood in order to stabilize their culture against the ravages of the Wasting.

The Troll Queen though... that has some potential. We already know that there is one or more fey kingdom on Alphatia at the time, and I would assume that fey could travel between "mortal kingdoms" fairly rapidly when journeying through the fey realm. So it's very possible that the Troll Queen spent some time on the Alphatian continent after Blackmoor destroyed itself. And she may have been one of those rare individuals who traveled into the Well and returned again... changed of course ;). It might also explain why she moved to Brun and settled in Grondheim (which includes the territory of the later Broken Lands - and the artifact that eventually creates them). So perhaps because of her transformation, she can draw forth powers from the LRoF artifact?
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:35 pm

I've always seen the Yanifey as being the people you don't realise you'll miss until they're gone. They lived on the Alphatian subcontinent for centuries, building their own civilisation before it was wiped out by the Alphatians (and IIRC DotE mentions that they had kingdoms, which implies civilisation and some degree of control over the land). The fact that they existed at all in the face of these shadows and the Not-Carnifex (TM) means to me that they must have had a few secrets of their own - many of which were taken and used by the Alphatians so they could maintain their dominance over the land.

All of which lays the groundwork for some really dark stuff. How much knowledge got destroyed after Landfall? What secrets have the Alphatians so far been unable to decode? How much of said lost or coded knowledge is essential to really keeping the shadows or other nasties in check?

Heheheheh
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!
User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Cthulhudrew » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:47 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:All of which lays the groundwork for some really dark stuff. How much knowledge got destroyed after Landfall? What secrets have the Alphatians so far been unable to decode? How much of said lost or coded knowledge is essential to really keeping the shadows or other nasties in check?


Interesting that you should suggest such a thing. Over the past several years, I've slowly begun to imagine the Yanifey (current) culture as being a sort of pseudo-Eskimo/Aleut peoples, whose shamanistic religion is- rather than the usual sort of spirit or animistic shamanism- based on a communion with the Nightmare Dimension, instead.
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image
User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:52 am

Now you're getting close to where I'm going with the original inhabitants of the Orzafeth region. My idea is that the Yanifey were trying to channel the knowledge of the Not Carnifex (TM) into something a little less unwholesome. They didn't quite succeed, but it wasn't a complete disaster, either. Unfortunately, the Yanifey weren't able to learn enough to put up an effective resistance against the Alphatians.

However, the Yanifey tried to get the last laugh by destroying and/or hiding some of their secrets, so their new masters would have even more problems than they did.
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!
User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Cthulhudrew » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:00 am

Cool! My idea was initially driven by the mention of Qeodhar the Yanifey whaler, and the notion that there was (currently) no Mystara equivalent to the Arctic Native Americans. From there, I started to look into adopting some of their cultural traits, and found one thing, in particular that really informed my ideas.

Researching the Yupik and their religion, I read about how their cosmology had two different worlds- the visible and invisible, both occupying the same space. It is pretty much the same sort of idea as most shamanistic spiritual beliefs, but the way it was described immediately made me think of Mentzer's dimensional cosmology, and I thought- how cool would it be to have a different spin on it, and have people who have at least some members who are able to see into the other world, and have developed a religious system around it? Sort of like the Second Sight of PC1, but in regards to Nightmare creatures instead of Fey. So whereas most cultures see the Nightmare denizens only in their nightmares and associate them with horror and boogeymen, etc., you have a culture who regards them as part of the natural world, and pays homage to them accordingly? Not necessarily evil (in much the same way not all Nightmare creatures are evil), but definitely different and perhaps frightening to people of other cultures who have different associations.

In any event, I never got too far with it (I was mainly looking into the background of a Yanifey character in a series of Alphatian stories I had planned), but that was the general gist. Since you have some similar notions, maybe we can expand on it for some further development; certainly in terms of the pre-Alphatian Yanifey it would take a different manifestation than in the culture of the modern Yanifey, who are a more tribal society than they probably were in the past.
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image
User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:46 pm

I love where you guys are taking this idea! One question I would ask (since it's a major theme in the BC 2300 setting) is how did the early Jannify deal with the Wasting disease? Could their "link" to the Nightmare Realm somehow be related to whatever remedies they sought to combat the radiance fallout after the GRoF?

I've also got a very rough map of BC 2300 Alphatia with the first pass at suspected national borders.
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby RobJN » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:40 pm

Chimpman wrote:I love where you guys are taking this idea! One question I would ask (since it's a major theme in the BC 2300 setting) is how did the early Jannify deal with the Wasting disease? Could their "link" to the Nightmare Realm somehow be related to whatever remedies they sought to combat the radiance fallout after the GRoF?

I've also got a very rough map of BC 2300 Alphatia with the first pass at suspected national borders.

How interesting, that Sundsvall should sit nearly smack in the middle of the fey nation, and the initial impact site of one of the Thrones of Stars should be the Dusklands.... :twisted:
Rob
Thorn's Chronicle: The Thread Index|Thorn's Chronicle Blog
My articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Follow Thorn's Chronicle on Facebook | G+ | twitter
User avatar
RobJN
Dire Flumph
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Cthulhudrew » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:13 pm

Why have the Fey so far south? Wouldn't/shouldn't they be more centrally located, in and around the dense central forests of Alphatia?

And speaking of Alphatian Fey, now that we're talking about all this, I just had a thought: in my overview of Blackheart from way back, part of the history I had was that the native fey were largely driven out/killed by Alphatian mages who experimented on them (in addition to other disasters): What if some of these groups of fey relocated to the Shadow Coast of the Isle of Dawn? Given other mentions of Shadows and such in Alphatian history, it might tie in well together. (I've always envisioned the SC as hosting an Unseelie Court of maliciously inclined fey, anyway.)
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image
User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:36 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:Why have the Fey so far south? Wouldn't/shouldn't they be more centrally located, in and around the dense central forests of Alphatia?

I haven't fully thought this through yet, but one thing I like to do with these historical maps is try to imagine how the terrain could be different 3000 years ago. It's only 200 after glaciers recede from equivalent latitudes on Brun, so my initial feeling is that climate and terrain should not be identical to the AC 1000 era.

With regards to the fey being located near present day Sundsval, I'm thinking of moving the forests to the south a bit, and perhaps covering the northern lands in tundra. Over the centuries that follow (as things warm up) the forests would creep northward. Like I said, I haven't fully thought this out yet, but those are my initial thoughts.

Cthulhudrew wrote:And speaking of Alphatian Fey, now that we're talking about all this, I just had a thought: in my overview of Blackheart from way back, part of the history I had was that the native fey were largely driven out/killed by Alphatian mages who experimented on them (in addition to other disasters): What if some of these groups of fey relocated to the Shadow Coast of the Isle of Dawn? Given other mentions of Shadows and such in Alphatian history, it might tie in well together. (I've always envisioned the SC as hosting an Unseelie Court of maliciously inclined fey, anyway.)

I really like this idea! Also, with regards to the map, keep in mind that during this era, Alphatia proper is connected to the Isle of Dawn by two different land bridges (with an inland sea between them). So migrating fey (or whoever) wouldn't have to worry about sea travel to get to the IoD. Of course migrating fey probably wouldn't travel across the material plane anyway... ;)
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby RobJN » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:54 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:Why have the Fey so far south? Wouldn't/shouldn't they be more centrally located, in and around the dense central forests of Alphatia?

I haven't fully thought this through yet, but one thing I like to do with these historical maps is try to imagine how the terrain could be different 3000 years ago. It's only 200 after glaciers recede from equivalent latitudes on Brun, so my initial feeling is that climate and terrain should not be identical to the AC 1000 era.

With regards to the fey being located near present day Sundsval, I'm thinking of moving the forests to the south a bit, and perhaps covering the northern lands in tundra. Over the centuries that follow (as things warm up) the forests would creep northward. Like I said, I haven't fully thought this out yet, but those are my initial thoughts.

Cthulhudrew wrote:And speaking of Alphatian Fey, now that we're talking about all this, I just had a thought: in my overview of Blackheart from way back, part of the history I had was that the native fey were largely driven out/killed by Alphatian mages who experimented on them (in addition to other disasters): What if some of these groups of fey relocated to the Shadow Coast of the Isle of Dawn? Given other mentions of Shadows and such in Alphatian history, it might tie in well together. (I've always envisioned the SC as hosting an Unseelie Court of maliciously inclined fey, anyway.)

I really like this idea! Also, with regards to the map, keep in mind that during this era, Alphatia proper is connected to the Isle of Dawn by two different land bridges (with an inland sea between them). So migrating fey (or whoever) wouldn't have to worry about sea travel to get to the IoD. Of course migrating fey probably wouldn't travel across the material plane anyway... ;)

If they traveled by way of the Elemental Plane of Water would that be....


(wait for it....)


hydro-planing? :roll:


Thank you, thank you. Here all week. Try the veal.
Rob
Thorn's Chronicle: The Thread Index|Thorn's Chronicle Blog
My articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Follow Thorn's Chronicle on Facebook | G+ | twitter
User avatar
RobJN
Dire Flumph
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:42 pm

:roll: Quick, someone do something... Rob has gotten into the zzonga again! :lol:
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby ripvanwormer » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:04 pm

I think this conversation is going in an interesting direction, balancing canon with ideas from fans, but I thought I'd point to Eldersphinx's work on pre-Alphatian Alphatia in case it had slipped anyone's mind.
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2824
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: [Mystara 2300 BC] Alphatia

Postby Chimpman » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:18 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:I think this conversation is going in an interesting direction, balancing canon with ideas from fans, but I thought I'd point to Eldersphinx's work on pre-Alphatian Alphatia in case it had slipped anyone's mind.

Thanks rip! And you are quite right in that we should take this work into consideration. The good news is that 1) Alphatia is huge so there should be plenty of space for all of these cultures and 2) we have a ton of time to play around with (around 2000 years).

Just one example, but eldersphinx's Ymathra people (descended from Taymorans) wouldn't exist in BC 2300 since the Taymoran culture is still on the rise in southern Brun... but after BC 1750 or so, they could start showing up. I need to re-read the thread in more detail to see where and when we can fit any of these other ideas in.
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.
User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
 
Posts: 7355
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: USA, California

Next

Return to 2300 BC

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest