Sarûniaspace

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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Chimpman » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:20 pm

nerik wrote:Actually, it would take at least 120 days (at 100 million miles per day) to travel from the crystal sphere to the outermost planet, assuming it was at its closest to the entry point.

:oops: :oops: Ahhh... double crud. Yup, you're right!


EDIT: Ok, I take it all back. I must be smoking something today... The aphelion of Pluto is roughly 4.5 million miles from the sun (the perihelion is at about 2.75 million). Average distance is about 3.67, so using that we have a planetary diameter of 7.34... and a sphere radius of roughly 7million miles. So you are totally right, and I am apparently high on something ;)
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:19 pm

nerik wrote:
Chimpman wrote:Assuming that the last planet in the system is at 12,000 million miles, and that Saruniaspace holds up to standard Spelljammer conventions, that would put the crystal shell at 24,000 million miles. To give some comparison on nerik's Flow Map, Mystaraspace has a radius of roughly 14,000 million miles, so Saruniaspace would be just under twice its size. That's a big sphere, but definitely not the largest out there.
Actually Mystaraspace has a radius of 7,332 million miles, Sarûniaspace has a radius of 24,000 million miles, making it by far the largest sphere on the map.
(the largest sphere I've seen is one called 'Mathspace' which I found in the archives of the mailing list - it is 75,000 million miles in radius!)
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Chimpman » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:20 pm

Ok, so now that I've got my head back on straight...

Sphere wall to last planet = 120 to 360 days
Sphere wall to Sarunia = 160 to 320 days

This is going to have some implications on travel through the sphere (based on Spelljammer's rules), since air supplies of crewed ships degrade over time. Let's say best case scenario is 120 days before a ship entering the sphere can replenish its air supply. Assuming that a standard crew will degrade its air supply from fresh to fouled in 4 months, and from fouled to deadly in another 4 months. That means that ships entering the system with a brand new, fresh air supply are guaranteed to have a fouled air supply before they can even reach the first planet. And that assumes that they have had 0 travel days in the Phlogiston (which can't be the case). So depending on how far someone has traveled and how long ago they refreshed their air envelope, it is very possible that the entire crew could be dead before reaching the first planet in the system.

There are ways around this of course:
1) Ships entering the system must have some way of artificially refreshing their air supply. This means either magic, or for larger ships perhaps even an on-board arboretum.
2) Break the convention of doubling the distance from the last planet to the sphere wall.

Frankly I'd be more in favor of #2. Doing this still means that the sphere would end up being very large - with a radius of 12,000 million miles, but it wouldn't end up being the largest sphere on the map. And we could reduce the time it would take to travel from the sphere wall to a planet (potentially down to less than a day). Then the only travel times we need to be concerned with are from one planet to another.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:36 pm

Chimpman wrote:Frankly I'd be more in favor of #2. Doing this still means that the sphere would end up being very large - with a radius of 12,000 million miles, but it wouldn't end up being the largest sphere on the map. And we could reduce the time it would take to travel from the sphere wall to a planet (potentially down to less than a day). Then the only travel times we need to be concerned with are from one planet to another.

I'm all for #2. Make the radius of the shell 15,000 million miles.

It won't be reasonable for ships to use the last planetary body to refuel their air supply as it is an airless terrestrial body.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby AuldDragon » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:19 pm

A better way, IMO, to "break" the double diameter rule is to put non-planetary objects in the space between the shell and the outer planet. Asteroids, live worlds, gas clouds, artificial outposts, etc. just stopping off points that allow a ship to replenish air and some basic supplies. Either that or make the system non-standard with the planets riding on starbeasts or gears, or something else that makes them not orbit the sun normally. While it's not a solid game rule, the fact that "no known sphere" breaks it means that no sphere that would potentially have travel should break it willy-nilly, IMO. Once that becomes the norm of "eh, using this rule just makes it too big, so out the window it goes!", then we are effectively invalidating canon.

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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:11 pm

AuldDragon wrote:Once that becomes the norm of "eh, using this rule just makes it too big, so out the window it goes!", then we are effectively invalidating canon.

Unless there is precedent otherwise. I've been thinking about it. Sarûniaspace has a crystal shell no matter which system is used. There's a reason it's there. I've been trying to think of a reason why the shell wouldn't be twice the diameter. I don't have one yet. But there will be one.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Bonetti » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:41 am

Side note: I never ended up running a game long enough to explore the Spelljammer lore deeply (in-game), but one of the little tidbits I had set up as an eventual hook was taking advantage of that rule. Specifically, make sure the players knew the "double the last planet" rule of thumb, and have them encounter a "planet" almost at the sphere -- a giant clue that it either didn't belong in the system, or that something was deeply "weird" about it. Since the one SJ game I ran never got anywhere near that stage, I never developed the idea further. Might be worth thinking about it, though -- maybe the outermost planets are actually travelers themselves, or the planets all used to be closer to the primary but have slowly receding orbits, or... well. Lots of possibilities.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby blackdaggr » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:36 am

Here's an interesting idea you might want to consider for Saruniaspace that could make it easier to integrate all the planets. Instead of having them all in a single plane, you could rearrange it so the secondary sun orbits vertically. Then the other planets could orbit it in a plane parallel to the first. As long as the planets were properly synchronized, they could avoid collisions. It would be something like a "platter" rising above/below the main plane of the sphere.

Another possibility might be to orient the second group of planets perpendicularly to the first. You can condense a lot of space simply by using the space above/below the main orbital plane (and therefore reduce the necessary size of the sphere).
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:55 am

Update:
The last planetoid has been named.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby nerik » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:36 pm

Do you have any thoughts as to Phlogiston rivers and travel times to and from Sarûniaspace?
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:28 pm

nerik wrote:Do you have any thoughts as to Phlogiston rivers and travel times to and from Sarûniaspace?

I've been thinking about it but I have no formalized answer yet. I do know that I want to make as difficult as possible for travelers to find Sarûniaspace, so no Phlo rivers will be near the shell. I'm also thinking that the sphere could be an anomaly, akin Jules Vernes vanishing isle; there are times when it is in sync with different versions of reality, this will allow me to connect Sarûniaspace to the Milkyway Galaxy, something that I know I definitely want (I'll be using the International Star Registry program for this.).

I also envision a deviation of the normal Spelljammer rules. I was reading Knightfalls' Far Space and the realization sunk in that what he has written is similar for what I envision.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Knightfall » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:55 am

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
nerik wrote:Do you have any thoughts as to Phlogiston rivers and travel times to and from Sarûniaspace?

I've been thinking about it but I have no formalized answer yet. I do know that I want to make as difficult as possible for travelers to find Sarûniaspace, so no Phlo rivers will be near the shell. I'm also thinking that the sphere could be an anomaly, akin Jules Vernes vanishing isle; there are times when it is in sync with different versions of reality, this will allow me to connect Sarûniaspace to the Milkyway Galaxy, something that I know I definitely want (I'll be using the International Star Registry program for this.).

I also envision a deviation of the normal Spelljammer rules. I was reading Knightfalls' Far Space and the realization sunk in that what he has written is similar for what I envision.

I just finished reading this thread and there at the end is my name. Heh.

TAD, feel free to use Farspace as inspiration for your sphere. And if you want to actually set it in Farspace, you have my permission. ;)
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:18 am

Knightfall wrote:TAD, feel free to use Farspace as inspiration for your sphere. And if you want to actually set it in Farspace, you have my permission. ;)
The fact that the Sidereal Sea (Sarûnia's equivalent of the Astral Plane) is an airless vaccuum is what felt like a ping of resemblance to Farspace to me.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:41 pm

I've been thinking about this project lately and something I realized was that if the planetoid oribiting Sarûnia does not have its own satellites, it is more at risk for meteorite impact than I want it to be. So I've made the decision that elemental moons will be the satellites for the planetoid and that the planetoid is the moon of Sarûnia. This also makes it easier to work up a sort of celestial calendar for Sarûnia since I don't have to worry about it having so many moons; sunrise, second sunrise, sunset, second sunset and moonrise and moonset will be easier to pencil in.

Also, the name of the planetoid is in flux. Originally I was going with Lasarnia, but I'm not happy with that.

I may also rename Randojka, I'm not sure yet.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:31 pm

Spelljammers & Sarûnia

For Sarunia, spelljammers don't make landfall on the world, as there is some undefined element the prevents them from piercing the atmosphere. I'm thinking that there is some sort of divine barrier that has cut off the world from being visited by spelljammers directly. However, the planetoid in geosynchronous orbit around Sarunia doesn't have the same phenomena, so a Spelljammer could make waterfall/landfall on it and than use any of the various geographical gates linking access between the two worlds, thereby allowing the ship to access the world from that means.

The elven empire on Sarunia does have a gate in their control that links to the air body and earth body satellites and both have ports for their ships. There are no open faced ships that are designed by any of the races, so natives create spelljammers that are completely enclosed.
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Re: Sarûniaspace

Postby Angel Tarragon » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:29 am

So I had a thought earlier about Aerea; it is a world that has advanced technology in regards to the airlock shield and the inner surface of the second shield being colonized.

I was thinking that the tech would allow reverse rainfall; effectively hijacking rain from surface dwellers of the planet and being collected for use by the denizens living on the inside of the shield. This would cause tensions between the planetary dwellers and those inhabiting the inside of the secondary shell.
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