Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

150 years after the defeat of the Titans, the world remains scarred and untamed.
The Book-House: Find Scarred Lands products.
Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:49 am

I am currently working on converting the 3.0 monster statistics in books like Creature Collection II, Blood Bayou, etc to the 3.5 rules. Credits to Knight Otu and Vraille Darkfang for their work on converting CC2. You can find my work so far here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q1E ... sp=sharing

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23156
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Big Mac » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:39 pm

Welcome to The Piazza Raneth!

This sounds like it will be really useful to 3.5 gamers.

Are you going to include a book and page link for each monster, so that people can refer back to the original books to read more?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:33 am

Currently I'm working my way through CC2, and the monsters are in alphabetical order, so it shouldn't be hard to find them. I'm also placing swarms under their own category (only blood moths, bloodflies, chern's children and flesh strippers are currently under that heading). But I'll be sure to add some kind of reference in the table of contents.

Occasionally I make some changes to the way the monster works, mostly streamlining and clarifications. I've added the symbiont subtype (from Fiend Folio and Eberron) to certain monsters like the abyssal lamprey and arcane symbiote because it fits them. I've made significant changes to the Arcane Symbiote because their statistics didn't support their fluff AT ALL: it's said that they're found among some of the mightiest archmages, but not only are they only 4th level sorcerers, they can only cast one spell per level per day (except they can't because they only have 11 Charisma, so they can never cast higher than 1st level spells either, meaning they only have two useless spells per day), so I tweaked their powers to scale with their host; the only real use for the Arcane Symbiote is that they give arcane caster slightly more flexibility (though if you're using a spell point system they are completely useless), since their spell resistance is only 35% at any time and also impairs their host. The assassin's bane gained a neutralize poison supernatural ability because its fluff said it could. Creatures with the animal empathy skill gain wild empathy or a variation of it (pestilites gain vermin empathy and pisceans gain aquatic empathy), white wraiths gain a largely useless "transparent skin" special quality that gives them light fortification, and the ratmen and vertigen don't have racial HD if taken as characters (they only have 2 HD anyway, but so does the ratman foamer and these aren't included in its revised racial traits, so I'm dropping the HD so they're more attractive as characters even with their annoying +1 LA, since the vertigen really suffer if they don't get the rogue's skill points at 1st level).

After I finish with that, I'll probably begin converting them to Pathfinder, though I'll appreciate any existing conversions. I've found about three on other websites in addition to this forum:
http://tuskmountain.wikidot.com/sundered-dryad (conversion of the sundered woman in CC1)
http://monstersreborn.blogspot.com/2012 ... idian.html (conversion of the face stealer from CC2)
http://monstersreborn.blogspot.com/2012 ... hound.html (converted from CC2)

EDIT: Oh, and Athentia has been given SR so that she actually IS the most feared creature in the land.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23156
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Big Mac » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:37 am

Nice work!
Raneth wrote:and the ratmen and vertigen don't have racial HD if taken as characters (they only have 2 HD anyway, but so does the ratman foamer and these aren't included in its revised racial traits, so I'm dropping the HD so they're more attractive as characters even with their annoying +1 LA, since the vertigen really suffer if they don't get the rogue's skill points at 1st level).
Have you ever looked at any of the Dragonlance monsters done by Margaret Weis Productions? They had a great way to deal with monsters that had Racial HD and Level Adjustments. They broke both down into a Racial Class that allows the monster to be taken as a 1 HD/1st Level ECL critter.

For a 3rd Level ECL critter, with a LA pentalty of +1, they would generally add a HD at 1st and 3rd Level and not add a HD at 2nd Level. And they would split up the monster's natural abilities over those three levels.

If you did something like that, you could make these guys playable as 1st Level ECL PCs, but not actually need to reduce the power of them.
Raneth wrote:After I finish with that, I'll probably begin converting them to Pathfinder, though I'll appreciate any existing conversions. I've found about three on other websites in addition to this forum:
http://tuskmountain.wikidot.com/sundered-dryad (conversion of the sundered woman in CC1)
http://monstersreborn.blogspot.com/2012 ... idian.html (conversion of the face stealer from CC2)
http://monstersreborn.blogspot.com/2012 ... hound.html (converted from CC2)
It is great that you are doing 3.5 too. That will really help make that ruleset more complete.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:49 pm

Big Mac wrote:Have you ever looked at any of the Dragonlance monsters done by Margaret Weis Productions? They had a great way to deal with monsters that had Racial HD and Level Adjustments. They broke both down into a Racial Class that allows the monster to be taken as a 1 HD/1st Level ECL critter.

For a 3rd Level ECL critter, with a LA pentalty of +1, they would generally add a HD at 1st and 3rd Level and not add a HD at 2nd Level. And they would split up the monster's natural abilities over those three levels.

If you did something like that, you could make these guys playable as 1st Level ECL PCs, but not actually need to reduce the power of them.
You're taking about Monster Classes, and I'm familiar with those. Racial HD and Level Adjustments are not really equivalent to class levels. Often such characters may lag behind characters without Racial HD and LA.

For a race like the Vertigen, two humanoid levels are more harmful than helpful, since they lose out on the rogue's 1st level skill points, and their vertigo sickness special attack is only worth about +1 LA.

For some of the races I'm having difficulty assigning LAs. The new Ratmen from Warrens of the Ratmen, aside from the Daywalkers, Stalkers and White Wraiths, were not assigned ECLs in the book, so I'm having some difficulty adjudicating their LA (all of them have 2 HD, which I'm dropping because their LA is punishing enough). The Silken Parasite from Blood Bayou has a constant detect thoughts and change shape power like doppelgangers, but is only able to assume a form pleasing to a given target rather than any form, so I've assigned it a +2 LA.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23156
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Big Mac » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:03 am

Raneth wrote:You're taking about Monster Classes, and I'm familiar with those. Racial HD and Level Adjustments are not really equivalent to class levels. Often such characters may lag behind characters without Racial HD and LA.
I think I saw a rule somewhere about buying off LA penalties, as PCs advanced.
Raneth wrote:For a race like the Vertigen, two humanoid levels are more harmful than helpful, since they lose out on the rogue's 1st level skill points, and their vertigo sickness special attack is only worth about +1 LA.
How many skill points do the Vertigen get with each level of Vertigen? They should get extra skill points for their 1st level of that and standard skill points for the 2nd level. That might not be as much as they get for the third level (where they might take the rogue class), but there must be something there.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Cliffrice
Troll
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:41 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Cliffrice » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:23 am

Welcome raneth Great work :D

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:45 pm

Big Mac wrote:I think I saw a rule somewhere about buying off LA penalties, as PCs advanced.
Yes, Unearthed Arcana has rules for that, but it still doesn't solve the fact that Racial HD are not equivalent to class levels. Pathfinder's rules for Monster PCs state that they gain extra levels at certain points in order to be balanced with normal PCs. Level Adjustment specifically does not include racial HD.
How many skill points do the Vertigen get with each level of Vertigen? They should get extra skill points for their 1st level of that and standard skill points for the 2nd level. That might not be as much as they get for the third level (where they might take the rogue class), but there must be something there.
Those are humanoid levels, so they receive 5 x (2 + Int mod) total at character creation, but only in Hide/Move Silently and Listen/Spot.

In fact, there are a couple of humanoids in CC1 and CC2 with 2 HD that could be appropriate as player characters in the right circumstances, but their racial HD mean that they'd lag behind classed PCs. I'll probably add an appendix specifically for "balanced" versions of these as PC races. Another thread tried to tackle the issue a while back.

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:04 am

Due to certain monsters not being OGC, here are some alternatives: EDIT: See this post for updated list.

EDIT: Here's a little blurbs on how the new monsters replace the old:

Ophiduan/Inphidian: While the common myth of the ophiduan's origin is that Mormo sent cobras to test the faith of a city-state that worshiped her, this is actually a metaphor for the coming of the Anguineum, who enslaved the humans and experimented with crossbreeding. The exact origin of the Anguineum is unknown, though they are probably related to the Ophidic giants (see Strange Lands) and their own legends claim they were the first race created by Mormo in the primordial age (something the Asaathi would contest). The Inphidians are a related, though unique, race derived from human stock that are nominally members of Ophiduan society (it is unclear whether they are products of experiments by Mormo worshipers such as the Anguineum, or even a curse by Chardun for some transgression). Where the Asaathi are styled after Oriental empires, the Ophiduans are styled after Mesoamericam empires. Ophiduans and Inphidians worship Laathsaal, whom they also call the Great Serpent; clerics may choose from two of the Evil, Serpent, Strength, or Trickery domains.

Evil Eyes: Also called the "Eyes of Mesos," these titanspawn plot the eventual return of Mesos (though at cross purposes to one another) and are known to engage in the slave trade and manipulate humanoids for their own purposes. They are sometimes known to work with Arcane Devourers.

Phrenic Scourge: These loathsome aberrations are the servants of the slarecians and the caretakers of their ruins. They are known to work with slarecian cultists and rule over societies of such people. Phrenic scourges are known to raise intellect devourers as delicacies and watch dogs. Their mysterious leaders are the neothelids, immense entities that consider themselves the chosen agents of the Slarecians (i.e. neothelids replace the role of elder brains).
Last edited by Raneth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:25 am, edited 6 times in total.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23156
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Big Mac » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:17 pm

Raneth wrote:Due to certain monsters not being OGC, here are some alternatives:
I believe that non-commercial conversions of monsters that are not OGC are things that can be done under fair-use logic. So long as you are not replacing the need for people to buy the books that have the monsters in a 3.5 conversion would drive sales of a 3.0 product.

There is a someone on The Piazza called Tim Emrick (timemrick) who hangs out in the Freeport forum and who does some awesome "fan support". Check out his 3.0 to 3.5 revisions.

Have a look at what he does to see how much material it is appropriate to include in a conversion.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:28 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Raneth wrote:Due to certain monsters not being OGC, here are some alternatives:
I believe that non-commercial conversions of monsters that are not OGC are things that can be done under fair-use logic. So long as you are not replacing the need for people to buy the books that have the monsters in a 3.5 conversion would drive sales of a 3.0 product.
I'm referring to the Product Identity of WotC, like Illithids and Yuan-ti, which can't be used in third-party products (Sword & Sorcery had to ask permission to use them). To some people, using original D&D monsters like Illithids and Yuan-ti makes the setting too much like Forgotten Realms and robs it of uniqueness. These OGC monsters use the same basic idea as the OGC monsters, but take them in a different direction, giving the setting more uniqueness.

EDIT: The Scarred Lands are basically crippled as far as OGC is concerned, as their names and descriptions are considered Product Identity. Only their statistics are OGC.

Cliffrice
Troll
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:41 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Cliffrice » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:28 am

Scarred lands is cool enough that it doesn't need any of their Product identity IMO.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23156
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Big Mac » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:53 pm

Raneth wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Raneth wrote:Due to certain monsters not being OGC, here are some alternatives:
I believe that non-commercial conversions of monsters that are not OGC are things that can be done under fair-use logic. So long as you are not replacing the need for people to buy the books that have the monsters in a 3.5 conversion would drive sales of a 3.0 product.
I'm referring to the Product Identity of WotC, like Illithids and Yuan-ti, which can't be used in third-party products (Sword & Sorcery had to ask permission to use them). To some people, using original D&D monsters like Illithids and Yuan-ti makes the setting too much like Forgotten Realms and robs it of uniqueness. These OGC monsters use the same basic idea as the OGC monsters, but take them in a different direction, giving the setting more uniqueness.
I've never really understood that Product Identity claim for WotC monsters that were not actually in the SRD. PI is a subset of OGC, so if you do not add something to the SRD, it is not within the OGC area and therefore can not be opted out as PI.

But, in any case, I'm pretty sure that 3.5 stats exist for the illithids and yuan-ti, so we do not need to make conversions.

If Scarred Lands did some modifications to the crunch of the illithids or the yuan-ti, that might need converting, but if they just made new fluff, then that would not need to be converted. (People could use WotC's 3.5 versions with the 3.0 Scarred Lands background.)
Raneth wrote:EDIT: The Scarred Lands are basically crippled as far as OGC is concerned, as their names and descriptions are considered Product Identity. Only their statistics are OGC.
I've seen that said before. I once asked Clark Peterson why Sword & Sorcery Studio PIed all the names of things and he thought I was having a pop at him. It was OK afterwards, but from what I can tell, they thought they needed to do their products that for legal reasons.

Don't forget that the OGL is a licence to reuse content commercially. It is not a fan-licence. Fans have been creating non-commercial fansites for roleplaying products that do not have any sort of open content licence, under fair-use regime for years.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:00 pm

Scarred Lands was updated to 3.5 after it came out. Illithids and Yuan-Ti were mentioned in some of the books, but S&S needed to specifically get permission to mention them. Illithids on Scarn were creations and servants of the Slarecians, while Yuan-Ti on Scarn were creations and worshipers of Mormo. Since using WotC PI isn't really permissible anymore (what with 4e), using Phrenic Scourges and Ophiduans/Inphidians provides a nice way to use monsters with similar functionality while giving them their own flavor. For example, in addition to the Iconic Bestiary: Classics of Fantasy, ebooks like Psionic Bestiary: Phrenic Hegemony and High Psionics: Phrenic Scourges further detail phrenic scourges. (Unfortunately, no one has given the Ophiduans a similar treatment, but one can always hope.)

I've also been working on converting the ratmen to Pathfinder. I tried my best to preserve their flavor within the framework of the Advanced Race Guide, though I invented a few new racial traits. Check it out here. The most important new trait, I think, is the Ability Bonus/Penalty trait, which I painstakingly derived by comparing the basic Ability Score packages, since were aren't given the ability to freely decide what modifiers to use, although the Advanced ability package receives a 50% discount for some reason. (The Advanced Race Guide, IMO, is partially awful because it is so restrictive and gives no leeway for making new or more flexible traits, so I refer to the Complete Races book from Dreamscarred Press and the Race Creation Cookbook for guidelines on making new abilities.)

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:36 pm

Here's an update to my OGC monsters post above to include more monsters and better references. Sources are included for both 3.5 and Pathfinder.

beholder and gauth > evil eye¹³
carrion crawler > giant rot grub⁷, scavenger worm¹³, and slime crawler/carrion moth²
displacer beast > kamadan²³⁷ or greymalkin¹³
githyanki > denizen of leng⁷
githzerai > n/a
kuo-toa > skum⁰⁷
mind flayer > intellect devourer⁰⁷⁹, possessor³⁸, phrenic scourge¹³⁹, eldritch spawn⁵, encephalon gorger²
slaad > ei'risai¹/chaosiic³ (same creature, different names), ogdoad⁴, brood⁶ and protean⁷
umber hulk > tunnel brute¹³
yuan-ti > ophiduan¹, inphidian²³, illujan⁴ and serpentfolk⁷

⁰ 3.5 System Reference Document
¹ The Iconic Bestiary: Classics of Fantasy (3.5)
² Tome of Horrors I, II, III (3.5) or Complete (PF)
³ Forgotten Foes (PF)
⁴ Counter Collection Gold Web Enhancements: Illujan Lord and Illujan Spawn, sinister snake-people (136 Kb PDF) and Ogdoad, amphibian race of chaotic marauders (148 Kb PDF) (3.5)
⁵ Complete Book of Monster Templates
⁶ Immortals Handbook: Epic Bestiary: Volume One (3.5) (requires Immortals Handbook: Ascension and optionally Gods & Monsters)
⁷ Pathfinder Reference Document
⁸ Possessors: Children of the Outer Gods (3.5)
⁹ Psionics Unleashed (PF); additional information on the phrenic scourge can be found in High Psionics: Phrenic Scourge (3.5) and Psionic Bestiary: Phrenic Hegemony (PF)
Last edited by Raneth on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:05 am

Additionally, here is the originally Crown Naga that was submitted for Creature Collection II. The author intended it to be a giant multi-headed naga, but the editors used a different submission and then added the name to it.

I also noted in my 3.5 update that the Moon Daemon was originally meant to be a "wolf centaur," with the body of a woman instead of a wolf's head (sort of like a Lamia, a female centaur with a lion's body), rather than the more generic werewolfy version the book gave us. So I'm using that description instead to make it more interesting.

Also, in my last post I gave four different OGC equivalents to the Slaad (I would also like to mention that one could include the Varn from Ssethregore if one was so inclined, though I haven't been able to study them in detail). They weren't designed to be used together, but there's a quick and easy way to explain them all coexisting in Limbo (based on this suggestion on rpg.net): "brood" is the collective term for native races of Limbo, which exist along a continuum between the proteans, chaosiics and ogdoad. The proteans are the most chaotic, with their ever-shifting bodies, the chaosiics are moderately chaotic, with unique bodies made of random mismatched parts, and the ogdoad are the least chaotic, usually being fixed to a single form. The level of "chaos" in each has no bearing on their relative power. Any petitioner of Limbo will eventually become one of these races. Their leaders are the five Chaos Lords (also called brood lords and anarchs) and the Brood Queen.

I'll being reading on the Varn and the Illujan in the future. I don't know at this time how to fit the possessors and eldritch spawn into the Slarecian mythos.

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:53 am

I've decided to use the new stat block format for 3.5, since it makes referencing and converting to Pathfinder easier. Also, I'll be converting the Creature Collection Revised and Creature Collection III monsters to the new format, which should also help to correct the errors present in Creature Collection Revised (see the errata thread to post any errors you find).

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18288
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Havard » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:24 am

Wow, I just found this thread!

I had not realized so many creatures had not been converted to 3.5.

Great work! :)

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

Cliffrice
Troll
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:41 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Cliffrice » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:43 am

Raneth wrote:Additionally, here is the originally Crown Naga that was submitted for Creature Collection II. The author intended it to be a giant multi-headed naga, but the editors used a different submission and then added the name to it.

I also noted in my 3.5 update that the Moon Daemon was originally meant to be a "wolf centaur," with the body of a woman instead of a wolf's head (sort of like a Lamia, a female centaur with a lion's body), rather than the more generic werewolfy version the book gave us. So I'm using that description instead to make it more interesting.

Also, in my last post I gave four different OGC equivalents to the Slaad (I would also like to mention that one could include the Varn from Ssethregore if one was so inclined, though I haven't been able to study them in detail). They weren't designed to be used together, but there's a quick and easy way to explain them all coexisting in Limbo (based on this suggestion on rpg.net): "brood" is the collective term for native races of Limbo, which exist along a continuum between the proteans, chaosiics and ogdoad. The proteans are the most chaotic, with their ever-shifting bodies, the chaosiics are moderately chaotic, with unique bodies made of random mismatched parts, and the ogdoad are the least chaotic, usually being fixed to a single form. The level of "chaos" in each has no bearing on their relative power. Any petitioner of Limbo will eventually become one of these races. Their leaders are the five Chaos Lords (also called brood lords and anarchs) and the Brood Queen.

I'll being reading on the Varn and the Illujan in the future. I don't know at this time how to fit the possessors and eldritch spawn into the Slarecian mythos.
They did the same thing to me. I submitted around 10 monsters and 3 made it into the book most were heavily changed. Maybe ill post the originals here for the halibut. anyone else have original monster that didn't make it in?

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23156
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Big Mac » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:01 am

Raneth wrote:Scarred Lands was updated to 3.5 after it came out. Illithids and Yuan-Ti were mentioned in some of the books, but S&S needed to specifically get permission to mention them. Illithids on Scarn were creations and servants of the Slarecians, while Yuan-Ti on Scarn were creations and worshipers of Mormo. Since using WotC PI isn't really permissible anymore (what with 4e), using Phrenic Scourges and Ophiduans/Inphidians provides a nice way to use monsters with similar functionality while giving them their own flavor. For example, in addition to the Iconic Bestiary: Classics of Fantasy, ebooks like Psionic Bestiary: Phrenic Hegemony and High Psionics: Phrenic Scourges further detail phrenic scourges. (Unfortunately, no one has given the Ophiduans a similar treatment, but one can always hope.)
That might be a problem for Sword and Sorcery Studios (or Onyx Path) but it is not a problem for fans. Fans could easily use the standard 3.5 illithids and yuan-ti, from WotC sources, and give them a Scarred Lands reboot.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Raneth
Hobgoblin
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Raneth » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:21 am

Big Mac wrote:That might be a problem for Sword and Sorcery Studios (or Onyx Path) but it is not a problem for fans. Fans could easily use the standard 3.5 illithids and yuan-ti, from WotC sources, and give them a Scarred Lands reboot.
It's still a problem if Onyx Path decides to publish a new edition of the campaign setting.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23156
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Big Mac » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:34 am

Raneth wrote:
Big Mac wrote:That might be a problem for Sword and Sorcery Studios (or Onyx Path) but it is not a problem for fans. Fans could easily use the standard 3.5 illithids and yuan-ti, from WotC sources, and give them a Scarred Lands reboot.
It's still a problem if Onyx Path decides to publish a new edition of the campaign setting.
That is true...for them, yes.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Posts: 8377
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:39 am
Gender: male
Location: Athas

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:53 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Raneth wrote:
Big Mac wrote:That might be a problem for Sword and Sorcery Studios (or Onyx Path) but it is not a problem for fans. Fans could easily use the standard 3.5 illithids and yuan-ti, from WotC sources, and give them a Scarred Lands reboot.
It's still a problem if Onyx Path decides to publish a new edition of the campaign setting.
That is true...for them, yes.
Not necessarily, if Onyx Path uses Pathfinder or another D20/OGL derivative they could easily use the Phrenic Scourge (Illithid open content replacement) and Ophiduan (Yuan-Ti open content replacement) stats and modify from them as necessary.

Cliffrice
Troll
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:41 am
Gender: male

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Cliffrice » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:02 am

Cliffrice wrote:
Raneth wrote:Additionally, here is the originally Crown Naga that was submitted for Creature Collection II. The author intended it to be a giant multi-headed naga, but the editors used a different submission and then added the name to it.

I also noted in my 3.5 update that the Moon Daemon was originally meant to be a "wolf centaur," with the body of a woman instead of a wolf's head (sort of like a Lamia, a female centaur with a lion's body), rather than the more generic werewolfy version the book gave us. So I'm using that description instead to make it more interesting.

Also, in my last post I gave four different OGC equivalents to the Slaad (I would also like to mention that one could include the Varn from Ssethregore if one was so inclined, though I haven't been able to study them in detail). They weren't designed to be used together, but there's a quick and easy way to explain them all coexisting in Limbo (based on this suggestion on rpg.net): "brood" is the collective term for native races of Limbo, which exist along a continuum between the proteans, chaosiics and ogdoad. The proteans are the most chaotic, with their ever-shifting bodies, the chaosiics are moderately chaotic, with unique bodies made of random mismatched parts, and the ogdoad are the least chaotic, usually being fixed to a single form. The level of "chaos" in each has no bearing on their relative power. Any petitioner of Limbo will eventually become one of these races. Their leaders are the five Chaos Lords (also called brood lords and anarchs) and the Brood Queen.

I'll being reading on the Varn and the Illujan in the future. I don't know at this time how to fit the possessors and eldritch spawn into the Slarecian mythos.
They did the same thing to me. I submitted around 10 monsters and 3 made it into the book most were heavily changed. Maybe ill post the originals here for the halibut. anyone else have original monster that didn't make it in?
I have several that were changed and or omitted. I would love to share them in fact i started a Thread but noons seems interested in it.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23156
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Updating 3.0 monsters to 3.5

Post by Big Mac » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:47 pm

The Angelic Dragon wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Raneth wrote:
Big Mac wrote:That might be a problem for Sword and Sorcery Studios (or Onyx Path) but it is not a problem for fans. Fans could easily use the standard 3.5 illithids and yuan-ti, from WotC sources, and give them a Scarred Lands reboot.
It's still a problem if Onyx Path decides to publish a new edition of the campaign setting.
That is true...for them, yes.
Not necessarily, if Onyx Path uses Pathfinder or another D20/OGL derivative they could easily use the Phrenic Scourge (Illithid open content replacement) and Ophiduan (Yuan-Ti open content replacement) stats and modify from them as necessary.
Sure. That could be done. But it would require rebooting the setting to insert the phrenic scourge and ophiduan into the roles occupied by the illithid and yuan-ti. Once that was done, it would be done, but I can imagine a few old school Scarred Lands fans getting confused by new products.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Post Reply

Return to “Scarred Lands”