Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

The civilized world has been reduced to a series of points of light in a great wilderness of danger and monsters.
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Zeromaru X
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:33 am

Added Karrehein to the list of dead gods (because there are not enough dead gods in Nentir Vale). She is a minor goddess mentioned in the short-story "The Decaying Mansion of Memories".

Also, added Margaine, a sort of aspect of the Raven Queen also mentioned in the story.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:48 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:35 am
Added the Dark Powers mentioned in Heroes of Shadow to the list of "Other beings". And the Everlight, from Tal'dorei.
Interesting choice to add Sarenrae from Tal'dorei. If you're going to do that, perhaps you should add the list of names for the Dawn War gods that they go by in Tal'dorei, too.
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:35 am

A few more updates to Avandra's aspects and the primal spirits list.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Tue May 29, 2018 12:06 am

Added The Prime Architect, a primordial that spawned the modrons after his demise.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:59 am

I've included new entries, among them the gods of 3e mentioned in Red Hand of Doom. Now that 5e's focus is the multiverse, basically they are Nentir Vale canon.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:41 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:59 am
I've included new entries, among them the gods of 3e mentioned in Red Hand of Doom. Now that 5e's focus is the multiverse, basically they are Nentir Vale canon.
I'm not following the connection. If I remember correctly, Red Hand of Doom takes place in the Elsir Vale, which wasn't explicitly placed in a setting. So fans have retconned it into a an area neighboring the Nentir Vale. But that's about the extent of my knowledge.

Did Red Hand of Doom mention gods that aren't in any other 3e pantheon/setting?

And how is that tied to 5e and its focus on the multiverse?
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:46 am

Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:41 am
Did Red Hand of Doom mention gods that aren't in any other 3e pantheon/setting?
I did a CTRL+F for "Red Hand of Doom" in your original post, and found the following:
Zeromaru X wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:45 am
Fharlanghn: A god of travel, and roads, revered in Elsir Vale. (Red Hand of Doom)
St. Cuthbert: A god of of wisdom, dedication, and zeal, revered in Elsir Vale. (Red Hand of Doom)
Wee Jas: A goddess of magic and death, revered in Elsir Vale. (Red Hand of Doom)
Aren't these Greyhawk gods? I know Nentir Vale borrowed gods from other pantheons (as well as borrowing lots of other elements from D&D's other settings), so it's not like the precedent hasn't been set. So is the idea that if Elsir Vale is connected to Nentir Vale and these gods are worshiped in Elsir Vale, then they must part of the same world/setting?

And even if my deduction is correct, I'm still not understanding the connection to the 5e focus on the multiverse.
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:19 am

Well, I guess you answered yourself, but Elsir Vale was retconned in 4e as part of the Nentir Vale, to the point that DM's Guild sells the Red Hand of Doom adventure under the label of "Nentir Vale". Besides that and the Scales of War adventures, Martial Power 2 explicitly mentions Elsir Vale as part of the Nentir Vale setting as well.

So, yeah, those gods are Greyhawk (or at least, 3e Greyhawk), but by retcon are also part of Nentir Vale, via that adventure.

As for the 5e focus, while these didn't existed in 4e (didn't had mechanical info, I mean) they have returned in 5e. So, for completionist sake, I put them on the list. Notice also that late 4e products did further connections between Greyhawk and the Nentir Vale (such as Evard living in the Nentir Vale, or Inverness Castle being located there).

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:10 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:19 am
they have returned in 5e.
I haven't read Mortenkainen's Tome of Foes -- is this something that is defined in that book? What returned in 5e? The three 3e Greyhawk gods that are in the Elsir Vale books?
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:24 pm

All the gods returned in 5e. But here I am talking about a return of their game mechanics, though, as these gods were absent in 4e and had no rules for them (such as feats or domains), but now all of them have rules and such.

However, yes MToF has a great emphasis that D&D is a multiverse now.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:17 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:24 pm
All the gods returned in 5e. But here I am talking about a return of their game mechanics, though, as these gods were absent in 4e and had no rules for them (such as feats or domains), but now all of them have rules and such.
Are you referring to the various pantheons mentioned in Appendix B in the 5e Player's Handbook?
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:44 am

Yeah. Pretty much, now every God is allowed (if a DM wants). Even the Raven Queen was connected to other settings and the general "Planescape" lore in the MToF.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:27 am

I have to admit, I'm largely ignorant of how gods were treated in some of the editions that I skipped. Did prior editions state that certain settings' gods no longer exist or couldn't be used (at least not canonically)?
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:51 am

4e did killed a lot of gods, either explicitly (ie. Nerull, most of the Forgotten Realms gods) or implicitly (most died in the Dawn War), but those gods were removed from lore. They said that they did that from a design standpoint, as there were "too many gods". Yeah, that was ammunition against 4e. One of the many.

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