Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

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Zeromaru X
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:18 am

Tharizdun is the Chained God AND the Elder Elemental Evil in 4e. Is part of his backstory and you can see it in earlier products such as the first DMG. So perhaps is that they changed the lore about this in 4e.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by willpell » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:55 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:18 am
Tharizdun is the Chained God AND the Elder Elemental Evil in 4e. Is part of his backstory and you can see it in earlier products such as the first DMG. So perhaps is that they changed the lore about this in 4e.
Every reference I ever saw in 3E also indicated that the two were one. I suspect this is a matter of them leaving the matter somewhat unclear, so that gamers who wanted to run Elemental Evil, but who didn't like Tharizdun as a concept, could claim that the two were distinct.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by ripvanwormer » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:04 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:18 am
Tharizdun is the Chained God AND the Elder Elemental Evil in 4e. Is part of his backstory and you can see it in earlier products such as the first DMG. So perhaps is that they changed the lore about this in 4e.
They changed it in 3e's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. In 2e they were separate, though A Guide to the Ethereal Plane suggested they might be one and the same.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by BotWizo » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 pm

Ripvanwormer is correct it was changed in 3e and 4e,
I tend to subscribe to the older interpretation, similar to how the Greyhawk Grognard blog broke down TEE lore where Tharizdun is a usurper, or should be eliminated from EE plotlines.

Zeromaru X is correct in 4e it was Tharizdun who is behind Elemental Evil.
The reason they went to Tharizdun as the EEG is that he is the chained god, since Lolth in GDQ (1e) had the EEG imprisoned so in 3e/4e they (new wizos) went chained = imprisoned.

If you want to build off of T1-4 and GDQ1-8 as well as RtTEE, then this would push you to eventually remove Tharizdun or place him in a similar role as Iuz or Lolth had in the 1e modules.

In following 4e lore you could just remove Iuz and replace Tharizdun in his role, and then still have the ominous EEG in the background, since even T1-4 and GDQ1-8 went through revision where originally the EEG was to be loosed in the bottom of the temple or in the GD part of GDQ. Iuz and lolth were not really part of the plotline before it was rewritten. Mister Mentzer could comment more on that if he sees any of these posts.
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:35 am

Added the Beast of Talgora to the Primal Spirits list. There is a Dragon article about this spirit in Dragon 396

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