Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

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Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Big Mac » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:59 am

The 3e adventure Red Hand of Doom had been added to the Nentir Vale category at D&D Classics! That's a very interesting move as that gives official recognition to the theories that Elsir Vale and Nentir Vale are on the same world. :)
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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by oknazevad » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:47 pm

I thought that had been confirmed some time ago in the "Scales of War" serialized adventure path from Dungeon, which starts in the Elsir Vale, used the Nentir Vale cosmology and explicitly mentions Nerath. Both Vales were designed by Rich Baker (the Nentir pretty quickly, from my understanding). So I've always thought of them as being the same world.

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Big Mac » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:46 am

oknazevad wrote:I thought that had been confirmed some time ago in the "Scales of War" serialized adventure path from Dungeon, which starts in the Elsir Vale, used the Nentir Vale cosmology and explicitly mentions Nerath.
Thanks Oknazevad. And welcome to The Piazza! You might want to pop over to the Introduce yourself here topic and say "hi" to the community here. :)
oknazevad wrote:Both Vales were designed by Rich Baker (the Nentir pretty quickly, from my understanding). So I've always thought of them as being the same world.
A lot of us think that, but I'd not seen confirmation before. Hopefully "Scales of War" can nail down the details. We have a topic about the "Scales of War" adventure path, but I've not read those issues, and I couldn't quite tell if they were linked.

Does "Scales of War" actually move the adventure to Nerath or Nentir Vale at any point...or is Nerath just namechecked?

Was there a map with it?
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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by ripvanwormer » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:41 am

From the other thread:
ripvanwormer wrote: "Garaitha's Anvil" - Dungeon #167 (three days from Sayre, the watchtower of Thiradith is noted to be a rebuilt ruin of Nerath, which finally ties this adventure path to the Nentir Vale setting, at least vaguely. There's no map.)
That's the only connection, apart from the cosmology, but it looks like confirmation to me.

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Havard » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:19 pm

Seems like the connection between the Elsir Vale and Nentir Vale are very loose at best.

Lots of adventures have been name checked in the Nentir Vale that previously took place in other settings. Seems like this is no different?

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:22 pm

Well, the Scales of War specifically ties the Nerath empire with the Elsir Vale. Many of the cities of that Vale are if fact Nerathi cities.

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by JimmytheQuick » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:26 pm

is the Scales of War the same as the Chaos Scar campaign?

If so Zeromaru you put the scar near the Witchlight Fen's didn't you.

Sorry if I'm totally off mark with this, working from memory and don't have the Chaos Scar details to hand to check.

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:46 pm

Nope, the Scales of War is an adventure path that happens in the Elsir Vale, while the Chaos Scar is a portable sandbox region you can put in any world without much effort. Threats to the Nentir Vale and the Keep on the Borderlands adventure locates the version of the Chaos Scar of the Nentir Vale between Witchlight Fens and the Ogrefist Hills.

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Havard » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:00 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:Nope, the Scales of War is an adventure path that happens in the Elsir Vale, while the Chaos Scar is a portable sandbox region you can put in any world without much effort. Threats to the Nentir Vale and the Keep on the Borderlands adventure locates the version of the Chaos Scar of the Nentir Vale between Witchlight Fens and the Ogrefist Hills.
How much material was produced for the Chaos Scar Campaign? Am I right in remembering that there were some details suggesting that this was a differerent Keep on the Borderlands than the one in the Nentir Vale? Like the name being different?

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Zeromaru X » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:36 pm

There is a lot of material for the Chaos Scar. There was the adventures in the Dungeon magazines (there is a list here), and the Keep on the Borderlands Encounters adventures.

And yeah, the Restwell Keep is different to the Keep on the Shadowfell (both are based in the Keep on the Borderlands concept), but both are relatively close in the region (the Restwell Keep is in the Chaos Scar, while the Keep on the Shadowfell is near Winterhaven, as you can see in this map, that was published in "Monster Vault — Threats to the Nentir Vale"). Officially speaking, the Keep on the Borderlands in the Nentir Vale is Restwell Keep, according to the Keep on the Borderlands Encounters adventures.

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Big Mac » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:52 pm

Havard wrote:Seems like the connection between the Elsir Vale and Nentir Vale are very loose at best.

Lots of adventures have been name checked in the Nentir Vale that previously took place in other settings. Seems like this is no different?
It's not quite the same thing.

It isn't a case of Nentir Vale recycling a part of Mystara or Greyhawk. It is more a case of a standalone area being connected to another standalone area.

I would say this is more similar to the way that Mystara fans think that Thunder Rift was supposed to be part of the Known World.

(I suppose that we could be saying that Nentir Vale is part of the Elsir Vale world.)
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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by oknazevad » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:33 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Havard wrote:Seems like the connection between the Elsir Vale and Nentir Vale are very loose at best.

Lots of adventures have been name checked in the Nentir Vale that previously took place in other settings. Seems like this is no different?
It's not quite the same thing.

It isn't a case of Nentir Vale recycling a part of Mystara or Greyhawk. It is more a case of a standalone area being connected to another standalone area.

I would say this is more similar to the way that Mystara fans think that Thunder Rift was supposed to be part of the Known World.

(I suppose that we could be saying that Nentir Vale is part of the Elsir Vale world.)
Funny that you should mention Thunder Rift, as it was just added to the classics section of the DMs Guild, and the product history (from the always well researched Shannon Applecline) states that Thunder Rift is and always was supposed to be on Mystara, though an isolated region that no one was sure where it went.

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Big Mac » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:26 pm

oknazevad wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Havard wrote:Seems like the connection between the Elsir Vale and Nentir Vale are very loose at best.

Lots of adventures have been name checked in the Nentir Vale that previously took place in other settings. Seems like this is no different?
It's not quite the same thing.

It isn't a case of Nentir Vale recycling a part of Mystara or Greyhawk. It is more a case of a standalone area being connected to another standalone area.

I would say this is more similar to the way that Mystara fans think that Thunder Rift was supposed to be part of the Known World.

(I suppose that we could be saying that Nentir Vale is part of the Elsir Vale world.)
Funny that you should mention Thunder Rift, as it was just added to the classics section of the DMs Guild, and the product history (from the always well researched Shannon Applecline) states that Thunder Rift is and always was supposed to be on Mystara, though an isolated region that no one was sure where it went.
Thanks for that Oknazevad. I'll have to get The Book-House on The Piazza updated.

I do like learning about D&D's smaller campaign settings (like Elsir Vale and Thunder Rift). I quite like the way that some of these smaller settings are a part of a bigger campaign setting. It means that you can grab some of the stuff from the bigger setting, but still kep the localised themes.

Maybe having Thunder Rift back on sale will cause a few new people to try out Thunder Rift.

What would be really cool, with the Elsir Vale/Nentir Vale thing, would be if WotC let Rich Baker do a Kickstarter to fund the publishing of Gazeteer: The Nentir Vale as a 5th Edition campaign setting, with the rest of the Nerath Gazeteers (as mentioned in the Nerathi Legends articles) as well as a Gazetter: Elsir Vale book as stretch goals. :)
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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Tim Baker » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:41 am

Big Mac wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:26 pm
What would be really cool, with the Elsir Vale/Nentir Vale thing, would be if WotC let Rich Baker do a Kickstarter to fund the publishing of Gazeteer: The Nentir Vale as a 5th Edition campaign setting, with the rest of the Nerath Gazeteers (as mentioned in the Nerathi Legends articles) as well as a Gazetter: Elsir Vale book as stretch goals. :)
I suspect Kickstarter wouldn't be permitted, but I could see the Nentir Vale being opened up to the DM's Guild, eventually. Considering the handful of Nentir Vale tweets we've seen from Mike Mearls, I'm hopeful that the setting will see some 5e support eventually.
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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by DMSamuel » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:06 pm

Kickstarter would most definitely not be allowed.

It would be interesting to see a Nentir Vale Gazetteer from Mearls, but I fear that the update to 5e would change so much that I would be unhappy. The recent changes to the Raven Queen in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes do not mesh well with Nentir Vale canon, but that info is now canon Raven Queen in 5e, so...

I kind of feel about it the same I feel about Mystara, if they do a 5e reboot it might be interesting, but ultimately the fans of Mystara have been doing it a great service here on the Piazza and at the Vaults of Pandius, so I see no reason why we should let Wizards of the Coast get their grimy hands all over it. Nothing against the designers at WotC, mind you, I do believe the individual designers want to make fun game material, but when you design based on company directives you don't always have the freedom to create the best material for the setting - you have to create what is the HOT thing right now or what is seen as the most commercially viable. This doesn't always lead to good changes.
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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:50 am

DMSamuel wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:06 pm
It would be interesting to see a Nentir Vale Gazetteer from Mearls, but I fear that the update to 5e would change so much that I would be unhappy. The recent changes to the Raven Queen in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes do not mesh well with Nentir Vale canon, but that info is now canon Raven Queen in 5e, so...
I'd be interested to see what they come up with. As one possibility, I could always incorporate changes that I like and anything that's completely new, and exclude portions of the setting that I preferred in 4e. Ultimately, if I were to run a game, it would be for a group of friends, so I'd still have control of what stays and what goes. The exercise of deciding that actually sounds fun, and I'd rather select from more options than I could use than the other way around -- so much of Nerath is still a complete unknown, and I'm curious to know what's beyond the borders of the map (or what might be, depending on how I feel about it).
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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:08 am

I would be the happiest man alive if they publish the Gazetter written by Hensoo and Slavicsek. We know it was already finished when they cancelled it and now is getting dust somewhere in WotC's office. But, I doubt they will ever use it. So, it seems my only consolation is the Mark of Nerath, that was written using info from that Gazetter.

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:39 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:08 am
I would be the happiest man alive if they publish the Gazetter written by Hensoo and Slavicsek. We know it was already finished when they cancelled it and now is getting dust somewhere in WotC's office. But, I doubt they will ever use it. So, it seems my only consolation is the Mark of Nerath, that was written using info from that Gazetter.
If it makes you feel any better, according to Bill Slavicsek, the Gazetteer wasn't done -- it sounds like it had barely been started when they pulled the plug. You can see the quote here: viewtopic.php?t=15990#p179624
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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:57 am

Why I didn't remembered that post, lol?

Mmm... then, why people is still saying there was something written?

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Re: Red Hand of Doom in DMs Guild's Nentir Vale category

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:37 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:57 am
Why I didn't remembered that post, lol?

Mmm... then, why people is still saying there was something written?
I can only guess that it's because his quote isn't widely known, and people had seen the cover and the ISBN and the product description. They made the assumption that it was already written, which is reasonable based on the product description, and they filed that fact away in their brains. It's easy to do.
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