History of the Nentir Vale

The civilized world has been reduced to a series of points of light in a great wilderness of danger and monsters.
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Tim Baker » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:58 am

DMSamuel wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:30 pm
I was going to compile the encyclopedia by reading the items in the order they were released. Should I start a let's the Nentir Vale thread? Would anyone here be interested in that?
I don't think I'd have time to read through the 4e books, considering how busy life has been lately. However, I'd definitely be interested in following along with the thread! I see you already started with Keep on the Shadowfell. Awesome job on the incredible level of detail!
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by DMSamuel » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:46 pm

Thanks! Yeah - my D&D group just dissolved because two members moved away, so I am making myself busy with the Nentir Vale until such time as I can reconstitute a group. When I do, I want them to be based in the Vale, so this process serves me in multiple ways.

Plus, I know it isn't necessarily a popular opinion, but I really liked 4e D&D and I have very fond memories of the 4 year campaign I ran for my group, so re-reading these 4e books is bringing back lots of good memories.

MODERATOR NOTE (by Big Mac): Discussion of using Nentir Vale with 13th Age rules split off into a new topic called: 13th Age and Nentir Vale
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:56 am

Right now, I having a huge headache because of the timeline of Nerath's fall...

(Yeah, there is an update in the making)

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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:35 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:56 am
Right now, I having a huge headache because of the timeline of Nerath's fall...
Why is that? Inconsistencies?
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:04 am

Many. If they hadn't introduced Emperor Aldoran in the novels as the last emperor of Nerath, there won't be. His existence is a headache, because in other materials Elydir is the last emperor (yeah, he was originally just a provincial king who got promoted as emperor, but still).

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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by DMSamuel » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:12 am

It's been a while since I read the novels... when was Magroth the emperor?

Wait - nevermind - he was the first emperor, right? - Dang - you're too fast - crossposted my edit :D
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:17 am

Magroth is the first Emperor. The founder of Nerath. He is revered as a hero by some, but he was a tyrant who was creating a nation dedicated to Orcus. He was killed by Krondor, a paladin of the Raven Queen (the revenant Erak from the Mark of Nerath and the Last Garrison novels), and it seems his descendants reconsecrated the empire to Erathis and Bahamut. Magroth later resurrects in an domain of dread as a lich (as it seems the dark powers of Ravenloft wanted to punish him).

Magroth descendants are other headaches, indeed. According to Dragon 393, Magroth's wife was an eladrin (Empress Amphaesia). Yet all of his descendants are humans, not half-elves. Does this means Amphaesia never bore Magroth's children?

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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by DMSamuel » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:20 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:17 am
Magroth descendants are other headaches, indeed. According to Dragon 393, Magroth's wife was an eladrin (Empress Amphaesia). Yet all of his descendants are humans, not half-elves. Does this means Amphaesia never bore Magroth's children?
I remember wondering about this when I read the novels... In fact, these lingering questions are part of the reason I am re-visiting all of the books and making this encyclopedic document - to help me wrap my head around the inconsistencies and decide, for my Nentir Vale, what the real deal is.
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 am

Now that you're here, I must ask. It's Greenbrier part of the Nentir Vale setting? Greenbrier is the settlement James Wyatt created for his campaign, and its described in the Dungeoncraft section of many Dungeon mags. And in his campaign he does talk about the demon that destroyed Nera.

I remember having read one article were he said something about it, but I don't remember what issue. Maybe you can help me.

Anyways, for what it seems, the thing is:

The destruction of Gardmore Abbey is the first event of the fall. It happened 150 years ago, but both the attackers and the defenders obliterate themselves so the things end there.

The White Ruin then attacks. Nera is destroyed 100 years ago. And then, we can speculate Aldoran died and Elydir got promoted. After maybe months of battle, the Battle of the Nine Sons happens. The result of the battle is yet another headache. Did Elydir and the White Ruin got trapped in the Abbys? Did the White Ruin killed Elydir? Did the Golden Lion killed the White Ruin...?

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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by DMSamuel » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:27 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 am
Now that you're here, I must ask. It's Greenbrier part of the Nentir Vale setting? Greenbrier is the settlement James Wyatt created for his campaign, and its described in the Dungeoncraft section of many Dungeon mags. And in his campaign he does talk about the demon that destroyed Nera.
I think that they shied away from making any D&D/Wizards of the Coast employee's home game setting a part of the Nentir Vale proper. I know that Wyatt's Greenbriar campaign was set in what he considered the "generic D&D world of the Dungeon Master's Guide" but he didn't really set it in the Vale. In Dungeon issue 165 he provides a little map of the region in which Greenbriar is located and it isn't in the Nentir Vale.
Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 am
I remember having read one article were he said something about it, but I don't remember what issue. Maybe you can help me.
I don't specifically remember a reference to the demon that destroyed Nera - I'll have to go search my magazine issues and try to find it.
Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 am
Anyways, for what it seems, the thing is:

The destruction of Gardmore Abbey is the first event of the fall. It happened 150 years ago, but both the attackers and the defenders obliterate themselves so the things end there.

The White Ruin then attacks. Nera is destroyed 100 years ago. And then, we can speculate Aldoran died and Elydir got promoted. After maybe months of battle, the Battle of the Nine Sons happens. The result of the battle is yet another headache. Did Elydir and the White Ruin got trapped in the Abbys? Did the White Ruin killed Elydir? Did the Golden Lion killed the White Ruin...?
Good questions... I'm still working through it - I have no definitive answer at this moment, but it is a pain to try and parse all that out. If/When I run across it I will try and help you separate out the events.
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:56 pm

Well, found it. It's Dungeon 171. He says this:
James Wyatt wrote:The campaign that I’ve developed in this column is my own version of the D&D world. I don’t know where the village of Greenbrier lies in relation to Fallcrest or the rest of the Nentir Vale, or even if the Nentir Vale exists as such in my version of the world. But it’s clearly the same world as the default world of D&D. It has the same pantheon of gods, the same roster of primordials, demon lords, archdevils, and archfey, and fundamentally the same history.
Basically, it's the same world, but it's his own version. So, nope. It's not Nentir Vale canon, that's a shame, cuz' the story of the Speaker in Dreams was really cool, and he does link the fall of Cendriane to the events of the Firestorm Peak module.

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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by DMSamuel » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:36 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:56 pm
Well, found it. It's Dungeon 171. He says this:
James Wyatt wrote:The campaign that I’ve developed in this column is my own version of the D&D world. I don’t know where the village of Greenbrier lies in relation to Fallcrest or the rest of the Nentir Vale, or even if the Nentir Vale exists as such in my version of the world. But it’s clearly the same world as the default world of D&D. It has the same pantheon of gods, the same roster of primordials, demon lords, archdevils, and archfey, and fundamentally the same history.
Basically, it's the same world, but it's his own version. So, nope. It's not Nentir Vale canon, that's a shame, cuz' the story of the Speaker in Dreams was really cool, and he does link the fall of Cendriane to the events of the Firestorm Peak module.
All that is true... The problem is, though, that the Speaker in Dreams was a 3e module that took place in a different setting. Same with Firestorm Peak - which I really love! It's the first thing Bruce Cordell worked on when he started at TSR and it remains one of my favorite adventures, :ugeek: but... it is also in a different setting.

So to me it makes sense that his Greenbriar setting isn't canon, but I like it enough that I wish it was.
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:59 pm

I'm not familiar with the details of the modules you're referring to, but could they be handled in a manner similar to other classic modules that found homes in the Nerath setting (e.g., Tomb of Horrors)?
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:23 am

The Speaker in Dreams is out of the question. There is no other connections of these module to the Nerath setting. That was the reason I asked. There is a Sleeper of Dreams in NV lore, but is not related at all with the fall of Nerath.

As for Cendriane and Firestorm Peak, I re-read the sources and we can connect it, indeed. According to "Worlds and Monsters" (p.22), "the Cendriane eladrins pushed back boundaries of every sort, be they magical or planar. As the story goes, they carved an unsurpassed complex into the heart of a lost mountain. Here, they “opened a door” on something so awful that within mere days, Cendriane was gone".

As the Far Realm related star Zhudun shone upon Cendriane that day (DR366, "Wish Upon a Star"), we can connect the module to NV lore, even if only be hints.
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:30 am

repeated post :P

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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:58 am

Update ver 7:
Just a few teaks to the timeline and a few new updates.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2mLf ... 2tBYVBWZzA

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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Tim Baker » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:11 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:58 am
Update ver 7: Just a few teaks to the timeline and a few new updates.
Great work! Were you able to reconcile everything that you were struggling with?
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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:33 am

Not everything. What I couldn't, I explained the contradictions with footnotes, lol

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Re: History of the Nentir Vale

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:58 pm

Update Ver. 7.1: Added info on Emirikol the Chaotic

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