Squaring H1 with the Shadowfell [spoilers]

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darkbard
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Squaring H1 with the Shadowfell [spoilers]

Post by darkbard » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm

Famously, the first published adventure for 4E ends with a scene wherein a cultist of Orcus attempts to open a rift to the Shadowfell, unleashing hordes of undead in service to Orcus upon the material plane. Yet demons like Orcus reside within the Abyss, not the Shadowfell. And the Shadowfell itself is home to the Raven Queen, to whom undead are anathema, an abomination.

How does one square Kalarel's attempt to free some giant, looming, presumably undead monstrosity from the Shadowfell (with potentially far more of the same or worse following that!) with the descriptions of it as a parallel plane home to shadar-kai, Vistani humans, servants of the Queen of Death, vehemently opposed to unearth, etc?

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Zeromaru X
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Re: Squaring H1 with the Shadowfell [spoilers]

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:09 pm

The Shadowfell wasn't created by the Raven Queen, she just lives there because the plane is a place that attracts the dead naturally, like the ghost and spirits of the deceased. And well, she is the goddess of death. Also, she isn't in good relations with the other gods, so she prefers to live there. And she is not the ruler of the Shadowfell, she is just one of the "biggest players". The true rulers of the Shadowfell are the "dark powers". The people that live there, like the vistani of the shadar-kai, is people that has been affected by the "dark powers" so to speak. The plane is not evil, but it is malevolent.

Those same "dark powers" attract the undead as well (in fact, the plane spawns undead naturally). Because of this, Orcus wants to control this plane , and have some enclaves there with cultists and the like, but he cannot fully control the Shadowfell. The Raven Queen is basically what gets in his way. That is why Orcus want to kill her and steal her portfolio, to get power over both death and undeath.

We don't know exactly what this "dark side" is, but perhaps is related to the dark powers of Ravenloft. In fact, the Domains of Dread are located in the Shadowfell in both 4e and 5e.

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Big Mac
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Re: Squaring H1 with the Shadowfell [spoilers]

Post by Big Mac » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:19 am

Zeromaru X wrote:Those same "dark powers" attract the undead as well (in fact, the plane spawns undead naturally). Because of this, Orcus wants to control this plane , and have some enclaves there with cultists and the like, but he cannot fully control the Shadowfell. The Raven Queen is basically what gets in his way. That is why Orcus want to kill her and steal her portfolio, to get power over both death and undeath.
That's interesting.

Ghostwalk has Orcus taking control of an island on the Material Plane. I wonder if H1 Keep on the Shadowfell could be weaved into that sort of story. :?
Zeromaru X wrote:We don't know exactly what this "dark side" is, but perhaps is related to the dark powers of Ravenloft. In fact, the Domains of Dread are located in the Shadowfell in both 4e and 5e.
I'm pretty sure that Mike Mearls had said that that both the 4e Cosmology and the Great Wheel were different (but valid) ways of looking at the planes for 5th Edition. I'm trying to recall where he said this.

But, perhaps there is a point-of-view where Orcus can be in the Abyss and the Shadowfell (or an area of it) at the same time. Maybe it's possible for Orcus to suck part of the Shadowfell towards the Abyss and create an overlapping region.
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Zeromaru X
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Re: Squaring H1 with the Shadowfell [spoilers]

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:18 am

I guess the story can be adapted. You should need to change some stuff, though.
Big Mac wrote:I'm pretty sure that Mike Mearls had said that that both the 4e Cosmology and the Great Wheel were different (but valid) ways of looking at the planes for 5th Edition. I'm trying to recall where he said this.
While is true that they said that, its also true that they changed the Great Wheel in 5e to reflect whatever changes they want to apply to the cosmology in 5e, including stuff from 4e cosmology in the Wheel (Elemental Chaos, Shadowfell, Feywild). The Shadowfell is still a plane and the Domains of Dread are still located there in 5e (as per both, the 5e DMG and Curse of Strahd).
Big Mac wrote:But, perhaps there is a point-of-view where Orcus can be in the Abyss and the Shadowfell (or an area of it) at the same time. Maybe it's possible for Orcus to suck part of the Shadowfell towards the Abyss and create an overlapping region.
This is Orcus' goal. But the gods of death (first Nerull, later the Raven Queen) didn't allowed it in the past. Now, he wants to try again. At least, that is true in the Nentir Vale, dunno in other settings.

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