[Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

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Tim Baker
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[Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:57 am

Zeromaru X made the astute observation that buried within the 3rd Edition adventure Red Hand of Doom, there are three deities mentioned:
Zeromaru X wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:45 am
Fharlanghn: A god of travel, and roads, revered in Elsir Vale. (Red Hand of Doom)
St. Cuthbert: A god of of wisdom, dedication, and zeal, revered in Elsir Vale. (Red Hand of Doom)
Wee Jas: A goddess of magic and death, revered in Elsir Vale. (Red Hand of Doom)
Since Red Hand of Doom takes place in the Elsir Vale, and Elsir Vale is also connected to the Nentir Vale setting via the Scales of War, he included these three gods in the list of Nentir Vale gods.

Thinking about how gods wear "masks" and can be worshiped as gods under different names and personalities in the Midgard setting, that got me thinking. Could these three deities be local names/perceptions of Nentir Vale gods? If so who would be the equivalent of whom?

I believe Wee Jas is similar (but not identical) to The Raven Queen, for example. Are Fharlanghn and St. Cuthbert analogous to other Nentir Vale gods?
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Re: [Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:33 am

Fharlanghn can be a male version of Avandra, as she is the goddess of travels in the NV pantheon.

St. Cuthbert is more complicated. Perhaps a neutral version of Bane?

OTOH, they could be exarchs of other gods. I can picture St. Cuthbert as a very good exarch for Erathis.

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Re: [Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by Big Mac » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:19 pm

Is there any reason why you couldn't just keep all the deities, and use the Elsir Vale ones as deities local to that area?

Or is Nentir Vale supposed to have some sort of Time of Troubles event in the past that "got rid of" other deities?
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Re: [Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:20 pm

Well, there is the Dawn War, in which pretty much a lot of gods died. So, lorewise, the Nentir Vale's world is a world with few deities. The gods of the PHB+DMG are the only ones supposed to have survived.

That statement, however, is not enterily true. We do now of a few other gods that were killed just recently (like Zehir's daughter, Nusemnee, who died in the current century), so, that means that a few other gods can have survived the Dawn War as well.

I believe the Dawn War pantheon is the one officially sanctioned by Nerathi priesthood. That means that other gods can exist, and can be worshipped locally in some regions, but weren't acknowledged by the religious authorities of Nerath, and so aren't known in all the lands of former Nerath. For instance, in NV canon that happens to Blibdoolpoolp.

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Re: [Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:14 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:19 pm
Is there any reason why you couldn't just keep all the deities, and use the Elsir Vale ones as deities local to that area?

Or is Nentir Vale supposed to have some sort of Time of Troubles event in the past that "got rid of" other deities?
Zeromaru X did a nice job of answering this. I'm a big proponent of letting each table figure questions like this out, especially when it's not explicit in the source material.

However, he hit on the reason I asked the question: there are churches of these gods in the Red Hand of Doom, and it was my understanding that only the Dawn War gods are sanctioned Nerathi priesthood. So explaining the Elsir Vale gods as other "masks" of the Dawn War gods is one possible way of reconciling this.
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Re: [Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 pm

OTOH, you can just use the Planescape solution and use those gods as written. I mean, there are many canonical instances of interaction between Oerth and the Nentir Vale's world, like Evard (the same Evard from Greyhawk) living in Duponde (a town located in Nentir Vale), or Inverness Castle existing simultaneously in both worlds, Oerth and Nentir Vale's. And both worlds share a few gods (Pelor, Kord, Nerull).

My take on this is that these gods were brought to Elsir Vale by planeswalkers, but were never accepted officially by the Nerathi priesthood.

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Re: [Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by ripvanwormer » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:28 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:33 am
St. Cuthbert is more complicated. Perhaps a neutral version of Bane?

OTOH, they could be exarchs of other gods. I can picture St. Cuthbert as a very good exarch for Erathis.
I suggest identifying St. Cuthbert with Kuyutha, an exarch of Bahamut with a similar name. Humans in Elsir Vale might have called him Kuyuthabert in earlier times—the Germanic name element -berht means "bright"—and eventually shortened his name to Cuthbert, perhaps forgetting his original dragonborn form and portraying him as human.

Bahamut's portfolio of justice, protection, nobility, and honor seems compatible enough with wisdom, dedication, and zeal. In the World of Greyhawk, St. Cuthbert's followers include paladins and knights. Draconomicon 2 says Kuyutha criss-crosses the world brokering honorable accords and takes the vilest dragonborn to Bahamut to face his judgment, which both seem like things St. Cuthbert might do (though he'd be very zealous about it and his definition of "vile" would be more intolerant than most).

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Re: [Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:08 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 pm
My take on this is that these gods were brought to Elsir Vale by planeswalkers, but were never accepted officially by the Nerathi priesthood.
I like that explanation, too.
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Re: [Elsir Vale] Are There Nentir Vale Equivalent Deities?

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:10 am

ripvanwormer wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:28 am
Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:33 am
St. Cuthbert is more complicated. Perhaps a neutral version of Bane?

OTOH, they could be exarchs of other gods. I can picture St. Cuthbert as a very good exarch for Erathis.
I suggest identifying St. Cuthbert with Kuyutha, an exarch of Bahamut with a similar name. Humans in Elsir Vale might have called him Kuyuthabert in earlier times—the Germanic name element -berht means "bright"—and eventually shortened his name to Cuthbert, perhaps forgetting his original dragonborn form and portraying him as human.

Bahamut's portfolio of justice, protection, nobility, and honor seems compatible enough with wisdom, dedication, and zeal. In the World of Greyhawk, St. Cuthbert's followers include paladins and knights. Draconomicon 2 says Kuyutha criss-crosses the world brokering honorable accords and takes the vilest dragonborn to Bahamut to face his judgment, which both seem like things St. Cuthbert might do (though he'd be very zealous about it and his definition of "vile" would be more intolerant than most).
I really like this idea. It fits surprisingly well. Thanks for sharing it!
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