Pre 3E Kalamar Products?

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Havard
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Pre 3E Kalamar Products?

Post by Havard » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:52 pm

From what I undestand, there was published Kalamar books available before the D&D 3E version. How much material was released? Was the setting very different from the 3E version? What ruleset did that use?

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Re: Pre 3E Kalamar Products?

Post by Morfie » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:37 am

You are correct!

Something called GMW1: Beneath the Waves. Some sort of undersea setting book for Kalamar, included 2e stats.

Has a publishing date of 1998, 2006. I'm guessing 2006 was the pdf version, and 1998 was the print version.

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Re: Pre 3E Kalamar Products?

Post by pawsplay » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:46 am

Kingdoms of Kalamar was originally a boxed set for a variant AD&D style campaign. It was a "no license," fair use design followed by many publishers in the late 1980s.

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Re: Pre 3E Kalamar Products?

Post by Big Mac » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:31 pm

Morfie wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:37 am
Something called GMW1: Beneath the Waves. Some sort of undersea setting book for Kalamar, included 2e stats.
That sounds interesting! :cool:

I've never heard of this before. Was this published for 3rd Editon?

Was the stuff rolled into another products?
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Re: Pre 3E Kalamar Products?

Post by JamesMishler » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 am

Some fellow named Echohawk put together an excellent list on EN World back in 2012 (it also includes a 3E Kalamar list):

Pre-3E D&D Kalamar game products

Boxed Set
The Kingdoms of Kalamar boxed set (1994), contained:
The Kingdoms of Kalamar Volume I: Sourcebook of the Sovereign Lands (included in the boxed set, 1994)
The Kingdoms of Kalamar Volume II: Mythos of the Divine and Worldly (included in the boxed set, 1994; PDF, September 2011)
Two huge, folded maps of the main continent

*Both volume I and II were available separately. The maps were also available separately, in folded and rolled forms. Kalamar premiered at Gen Con 1994. I bought the boxed set at the second convention Kenzer & Company attended (I think it was Concentric in Chicago maybe? Dang, it has been 25 years now)...

**There were at least two printings of the books, one with gray covers, the other with brownish covers (IIRC).

Accessory
Game Master's Workshop, Volume One: Beneath the Waves (June 1998; PDF, September 2006)

Adventures
BR1: Tragedy in the House of Brodeln (January 1995)*
RB1: Secret Temple of Adajy (January 1997)

* I was a playtester for Tragedy in the House of Brodeln.

Kalamar Quests
KA1: The Scirocco's Kiss (1999)*
KA2: In Too Deep (1999)
SV1: Unguarded Hoard (1999)*
WL1: Night of the Rot Lord (1999)*
YK1: The Hungry Undead (1999)*
YK2: A Foe in Need (1999)
KA3: Temple of the Bronze Flame (2000)
SV2: Sometimes They Come Back (2000)

* The Kalamar Quests were digest-sized booklets; I should know, I edited and expanded half of them!

I should also note that the Lost Tomb of Kruk-Ma-Kali adventure for 3E was originally designed to be a series of three Kalamar Quests. The first would be to find the valley; the second would be exploring the valley; and the third was the tomb itself. I wrote the tomb segment first while on some serious pain medication; it was my love-note to the Tomb of Horrors. I thereafter finished up most of the valley, but then left the company before I could complete all three. The whole was later put together and expanded by Don Morgan, and so we share the credit.

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Re: Pre 3E Kalamar Products?

Post by Big Mac » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:27 pm

JamesMishler wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 am
Some fellow named Echohawk put together an excellent list on EN World back in 2012 (it also includes a 3E Kalamar list):

Pre-3E D&D Kalamar game products

Boxed Set
The Kingdoms of Kalamar boxed set (1994), contained:
The Kingdoms of Kalamar Volume I: Sourcebook of the Sovereign Lands (included in the boxed set, 1994)
The Kingdoms of Kalamar Volume II: Mythos of the Divine and Worldly (included in the boxed set, 1994; PDF, September 2011)
Two huge, folded maps of the main continent

*Both volume I and II were available separately. The maps were also available separately, in folded and rolled forms. Kalamar premiered at Gen Con 1994. I bought the boxed set at the second convention Kenzer & Company attended (I think it was Concentric in Chicago maybe? Dang, it has been 25 years now)...

**There were at least two printings of the books, one with gray covers, the other with brownish covers (IIRC).
Echohawk is awesome. He has done lots of really useful lists.

Is there any significance to the change of colours? Was it to let people know how to tell which books had errata or somesuch? If so, which coloured books are "better"?
JamesMishler wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 am
Accessory
Game Master's Workshop, Volume One: Beneath the Waves (June 1998; PDF, September 2006)
Hmm. Only one accessory. I guess the plan (Volume Two, etc) was cut short by the decision to flip production to 3rd Edition, where Kenzer and Co would have to reinvent the wheel and publish 3e content of core content that was already in print.

Is there anything in the 3e product line that duplicates what Beneath the Waves did?
JamesMishler wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 am
Adventures
BR1: Tragedy in the House of Brodeln (January 1995)*
RB1: Secret Temple of Adajy (January 1997)

* I was a playtester for Tragedy in the House of Brodeln.
Nice. Did Tragedy in the House of Brodeln change much while it was being playtested? Or did you mostly rubber stamp something that was already as good as it could be?

Do the RB and BR codes mean anything? (like the way that SJA1 was "Spelljammer adventure 1"?)
JamesMishler wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 am
Kalamar Quests
KA1: The Scirocco's Kiss (1999)*
KA2: In Too Deep (1999)
SV1: Unguarded Hoard (1999)*
WL1: Night of the Rot Lord (1999)*
YK1: The Hungry Undead (1999)*
YK2: A Foe in Need (1999)
KA3: Temple of the Bronze Flame (2000)
SV2: Sometimes They Come Back (2000)

* The Kalamar Quests were digest-sized booklets; I should know, I edited and expanded half of them!

I should also note that the Lost Tomb of Kruk-Ma-Kali adventure for 3E was originally designed to be a series of three Kalamar Quests. The first would be to find the valley; the second would be exploring the valley; and the third was the tomb itself. I wrote the tomb segment first while on some serious pain medication; it was my love-note to the Tomb of Horrors. I thereafter finished up most of the valley, but then left the company before I could complete all three. The whole was later put together and expanded by Don Morgan, and so we share the credit.
I knew you were a Wilderlands expert, but didn't realise that you had helped build up Kingdoms of Kalamar, so much. :cool:

What is with the relatively large number of different letter codes for the Kalamar Quests series? Were they all supposed to bolt-together (with any other adventures that had the same code) to create an ongoing storyline (like what you did that ended up as Lost Tomb of Kruk-Ma-Kali)?

Or do the letter codes denote something like regions or countries, within Kalamar (so that a GM running a campaign in a specific area can avoid buying adventures that would need to be adapted to work in their preferred region)?
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Re: Pre 3E Kalamar Products?

Post by JamesMishler » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:56 am

Big Mac wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:27 pm
Is there any significance to the change of colours? Was it to let people know how to tell which books had errata or somesuch? If so, which coloured books are "better"?
Not that I am aware; it has been a long time, and I only have my original boxed set anymore, so I can't really check for differences. I know the 2nd printings also came with a full-color wrap and were in shrink; they may have been corrected, too, but I do not recall.
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:27 pm
JamesMishler wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 am
Adventures
BR1: Tragedy in the House of Brodeln (January 1995)*
RB1: Secret Temple of Adajy (January 1997)

* I was a playtester for Tragedy in the House of Brodeln.
Nice. Did Tragedy in the House of Brodeln change much while it was being playtested? Or did you mostly rubber stamp something that was already as good as it could be?

Do the RB and BR codes mean anything? (like the way that SJA1 was "Spelljammer adventure 1"?)
JamesMishler wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 am
Kalamar Quests
KA1: The Scirocco's Kiss (1999)*
KA2: In Too Deep (1999)
SV1: Unguarded Hoard (1999)*
WL1: Night of the Rot Lord (1999)*
YK1: The Hungry Undead (1999)*
YK2: A Foe in Need (1999)
KA3: Temple of the Bronze Flame (2000)
SV2: Sometimes They Come Back (2000)

* The Kalamar Quests were digest-sized booklets; I should know, I edited and expanded half of them!

I should also note that the Lost Tomb of Kruk-Ma-Kali adventure for 3E was originally designed to be a series of three Kalamar Quests. The first would be to find the valley; the second would be exploring the valley; and the third was the tomb itself. I wrote the tomb segment first while on some serious pain medication; it was my love-note to the Tomb of Horrors. I thereafter finished up most of the valley, but then left the company before I could complete all three. The whole was later put together and expanded by Don Morgan, and so we share the credit.
I knew you were a Wilderlands expert, but didn't realise that you had helped build up Kingdoms of Kalamar, so much. :cool:

What is with the relatively large number of different letter codes for the Kalamar Quests series? Were they all supposed to bolt-together (with any other adventures that had the same code) to create an ongoing storyline (like what you did that ended up as Lost Tomb of Kruk-Ma-Kali)?

Or do the letter codes denote something like regions or countries, within Kalamar (so that a GM running a campaign in a specific area can avoid buying adventures that would need to be adapted to work in their preferred region)?
Indeed, the codes are region codes:

BR = Brandobia (West)
KA = Kalamar (South Central)
RB = Reanaaria Bay (East)
SV = Svimohzia (Far South)
WL = Wild Lands (North East)
YK = Young Kingdom (North Central)

They never worked together for an adventure path; or at least, they didn't when I was working on them, except for the working concept for the Kruk-Ma-Kali books. I'm not sure how that all worked afterward, though obviously with 3E the Kalamar Quests came to an end (though there were plenty of other companies that took it and ran with it in the early days of the d20 rush).

Regarding changes to Brodeln, there were none that I could note, though I gave only player feedback and never saw the pre-publication manuscript; so there might have been some changes of which I am unaware.

I wasn't really involved in anything in 3E directly, though a bit of my earlier unpublished work made its way into the 3E and HackMaster 4E books.

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