Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

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Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Big Mac » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:14 am

I said this over in The Horde thread:

Big Mac wrote:I wonder if The Complete Barbarian's Handbook was to The Horde, what The Complete Psionics Handbook was to Dark Sun. Is there anything in CBH that can be used to expand on what is in The Horde boxed set?

EDIT: The Horde came out in 1990, while The Complete Barbarian's Handbook came out in 1995, so the situation is the reverse of Dark Sun and The Complete Psionics Handbook.


But I think it is a subject that deserves its own thread.

How much stuff from The Complete Barbarian's Handbook is useful for a game set in The Horde Campaign Setting?
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Angel Tarragon » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:58 am

I'm not sure if I still have it, but I do remember [I think] that a portion of the material included information on arctic wastes and a list of animals (or animal parts) and their gp worth.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Seethyr » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:46 am

Some of the kits have a Native American feel to them, but with very slight adjustments could be altered to Horde-like classes. I'm thinking specifically of the Plainsrider and Ravager.

I also found the rules it has for summoning a Horde (yep it says the word) highly applicable, if odd and overpowered. In 3e speak, I actually think it would make a nice epic level feat.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Jorkens » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:39 am

It seems like the book is in the basement somewhere; I don't think the series handled the subclasses that well (with the exception of the Complete Bards handbook which is great)so its been a few years, but I will do my best.

A couple of the kits are OK, especially the shamanistic ones, but not that much use for the Horde itself. But if you are developing the whole area with the various semi-barbarous people along the borders it could be used to differentiate them, although I am not sure how useful it is if you are not using the 2nd ed. as your rules-system.

As for the rest of the book. It reintroduces the fighting barbarian to the 2nd edition and adds a shaman class if I remember correctly. There is also some information about barbarians and primitive cultures in general, but nothing that inspirational and too generic to be of much more use than a quick internet search now. The price and use of animal parts is OK, although its more or less a copy of an old Dragon article for the 1st edition if I remember correctly.

All in all you might get some use for it if you are using the 2nd edition, but its not that useful for fleshing put the horde in my opinion. But its not that expensive used, so don't let me discourage you from getting a copy.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Big Mac » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:51 pm

Seethyr wrote:Some of the kits have a Native American feel to them, but with very slight adjustments could be altered to Horde-like classes. I'm thinking specifically of the Plainsrider and Ravager.


The Dragonlance nomads feel a bit Native American. Perhaps those would work better for them.

Seethyr wrote:I also found the rules it has for summoning a Horde (yep it says the word) highly applicable, if odd and overpowered. In 3e speak, I actually think it would make a nice epic level feat.


Is that a permanant thing (i.e. like a Paladin summoning their warhorse) or a temporary thing (i.e. the horde fights for you and then returns home).

If it is a permanant thing, I could see it being something that stacks with Leadership (in 3e terms) or if it is a temporary thing, I could see it as a temporary boost to Leadership (again in 3e terms).

Jorkens wrote:It seems like the book is in the basement somewhere; I don't think the series handled the subclasses that well (with the exception of the Complete Bards handbook which is great)so its been a few years, but I will do my best.

A couple of the kits are OK, especially the shamanistic ones, but not that much use for the Horde itself. But if you are developing the whole area with the various semi-barbarous people along the borders it could be used to differentiate them, although I am not sure how useful it is if you are not using the 2nd ed. as your rules-system.

As for the rest of the book. It reintroduces the fighting barbarian to the 2nd edition and adds a shaman class if I remember correctly. There is also some information about barbarians and primitive cultures in general, but nothing that inspirational and too generic to be of much more use than a quick internet search now. The price and use of animal parts is OK, although its more or less a copy of an old Dragon article for the 1st edition if I remember correctly.

All in all you might get some use for it if you are using the 2nd edition, but its not that useful for fleshing put the horde in my opinion. But its not that expensive used, so don't let me discourage you from getting a copy.


My take on 2e, is that it is "not broken". 3e is different, but there are a lot of things that never got done and 2e can be an inspiration. Kits, for example, are a good way to get ideas for 3e Prestige Classes (or at a push Base Classes).

I think I'll have to have another read of The Horde, to see what might help.

Does anyone know of a list of the things contained in The Complete Barbarian's Handbook?
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Seethyr » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:05 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:I also found the rules it has for summoning a Horde (yep it says the word) highly applicable, if odd and overpowered. In 3e speak, I actually think it would make a nice epic level feat.


Is that a permanant thing (i.e. like a Paladin summoning their warhorse) or a temporary thing (i.e. the horde fights for you and then returns home).

If it is a permanant thing, I could see it being something that stacks with Leadership (in 3e terms) or if it is a temporary thing, I could see it as a temporary boost to Leadership (again in 3e terms).


It's a temporary thing which even as an epic feat is a thankful thing. It has the potential to lead THOUSANDS of barbarians which imo could either wreck (if handled poorly) or enrich a campaign. The barbarians disbanded once the deed that they set out to accomplish is done or if time drags on too long.

Making this an epic version/extension of Leadership is an excellent idea and it should certainly be a prereq.

Here's another thought on it though. Yamun Khahan certainly used this ability, as have numerous Orc kings like Obould in the past. They weren't necessarily epic level characters.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Havard » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:06 pm

Complete Barbarian's Handbook cannot be raided.

IT RAIDS YOU!

;)

*Ducks*

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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Angel Tarragon » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:03 pm

:P :lol: *quack*
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Big Mac » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:30 am

*Throws shoe at Havard*

*Quacks back at TAD*
Last edited by Big Mac on Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby night_druid » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:47 am

I might mention that most of the 2e splat books had a "savage/barbarian" variant to the primary class, with varying degrees of success. Even a few race splats had primitive variants that could be useful.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Big Mac » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:55 am

Seethyr wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:I also found the rules it has for summoning a Horde (yep it says the word) highly applicable, if odd and overpowered. In 3e speak, I actually think it would make a nice epic level feat.


Is that a permanant thing (i.e. like a Paladin summoning their warhorse) or a temporary thing (i.e. the horde fights for you and then returns home).

If it is a permanant thing, I could see it being something that stacks with Leadership (in 3e terms) or if it is a temporary thing, I could see it as a temporary boost to Leadership (again in 3e terms).


It's a temporary thing which even as an epic feat is a thankful thing. It has the potential to lead THOUSANDS of barbarians which imo could either wreck (if handled poorly) or enrich a campaign. The barbarians disbanded once the deed that they set out to accomplish is done or if time drags on too long.

Making this an epic version/extension of Leadership is an excellent idea and it should certainly be a prereq.

Here's another thought on it though. Yamun Khahan certainly used this ability, as have numerous Orc kings like Obould in the past. They weren't necessarily epic level characters.


I suppose in 2e terms, this is close to Quest Spells, which could only be used under certain circumstances. I would guess that a barbarian would have so many followers (on a regular basis) but then would need to go on a quest to build up a horde.

Perhaps the barbarian needs to take his regular followers and hirelings (or the nomadic version of hirelings) into battle to help campaign (politically) to win the hearts and minds of other tribes.

I suppose the key things would be public speaking, to swing the opinions of tribesmen, choosing an enemy that people believed they could defeat (or fight honorably against), to show (not tell) that they could plan combat in an effective way and to promse everyone a share in the spoils that would satisfy them that it was worth their while.

Perhaps this would be something that a PC would only get one shot at.

Or maybe they could carry on fighting other battles, while they were having successes, but then loose their "temporary followers" if defeated. (Although, maybe winning a lot of spoils could be just as bad as some of your forces might loot so much stuff that they can't carry any more and then go home.)
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Seethyr » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:03 am

Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:I also found the rules it has for summoning a Horde (yep it says the word) highly applicable, if odd and overpowered. In 3e speak, I actually think it would make a nice epic level feat.


Is that a permanant thing (i.e. like a Paladin summoning their warhorse) or a temporary thing (i.e. the horde fights for you and then returns home).

If it is a permanant thing, I could see it being something that stacks with Leadership (in 3e terms) or if it is a temporary thing, I could see it as a temporary boost to Leadership (again in 3e terms).


It's a temporary thing which even as an epic feat is a thankful thing. It has the potential to lead THOUSANDS of barbarians which imo could either wreck (if handled poorly) or enrich a campaign. The barbarians disbanded once the deed that they set out to accomplish is done or if time drags on too long.

Making this an epic version/extension of Leadership is an excellent idea and it should certainly be a prereq.

Here's another thought on it though. Yamun Khahan certainly used this ability, as have numerous Orc kings like Obould in the past. They weren't necessarily epic level characters.


I suppose in 2e terms, this is close to Quest Spells, which could only be used under certain circumstances. I would guess that a barbarian would have so many followers (on a regular basis) but then would need to go on a quest to build up a horde.

Perhaps the barbarian needs to take his regular followers and hirelings (or the nomadic version of hirelings) into battle to help campaign (politically) to win the hearts and minds of other tribes.

I suppose the key things would be public speaking, to swing the opinions of tribesmen, choosing an enemy that people believed they could defeat (or fight honorably against), to show (not tell) that they could plan combat in an effective way and to promse everyone a share in the spoils that would satisfy them that it was worth their while.

Perhaps this would be something that a PC would only get one shot at.

Or maybe they could carry on fighting other battles, while they were having successes, but then loose their "temporary followers" if defeated. (Although, maybe winning a lot of spoils could be just as bad as some of your forces might loot so much stuff that they can't carry any more and then go home.)


If it wasn't for the copyright issues and the length of the text, I'd show you that it basically goes exactly this way. The writer probably had Quest spells in mind when he wrote it.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Cthulhudrew » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:51 am

Now that I think about it, the Barbarian class in the 1E Oriental Adventures had a "Gather Horde" ability, too.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby BlackBat242 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:20 am

The Barbarian class in the 1E UA could summon a Horde once he was 8th-level.

He could summon his experience-point total divided by 1000 in barbarians of his own type, and only in his home territory (275 for a barely-8th-level and 500 for a barely-9th-level).

The horde takes a week to gather, will only remain for 1 week per level of the summoner, and must have a specific and narrowly-defined goal. Various special circumstances (summoner is also a tribal leader, the goal is not reached but is very close, lots of loot is distributed, etc) can extend the horde for 1-2 weeks each, but if the horde disbands against the summoner's will "he will not receive a warm welcome when he returns to his homeland".

As part of the horde, there will be two aids of half the summoner's level, who will each have two assistants of half their level.
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Re: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:35 pm

night_druid wrote:I might mention that most of the 2e splat books had a "savage/barbarian" variant to the primary class, with varying degrees of success. Even a few race splats had primitive variants that could be useful.


True. Even the sorcerer (from 3e) would work in a non-civilised society (better than a wizard).

Maybe we should have another thread to collect together things (of any edition) that might fit in well with The Horde).

Seethyr wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:I also found the rules it has for summoning a Horde (yep it says the word) highly applicable, if odd and overpowered. In 3e speak, I actually think it would make a nice epic level feat.


Is that a permanant thing (i.e. like a Paladin summoning their warhorse) or a temporary thing (i.e. the horde fights for you and then returns home).

If it is a permanant thing, I could see it being something that stacks with Leadership (in 3e terms) or if it is a temporary thing, I could see it as a temporary boost to Leadership (again in 3e terms).


It's a temporary thing which even as an epic feat is a thankful thing. It has the potential to lead THOUSANDS of barbarians which imo could either wreck (if handled poorly) or enrich a campaign. The barbarians disbanded once the deed that they set out to accomplish is done or if time drags on too long.

Making this an epic version/extension of Leadership is an excellent idea and it should certainly be a prereq.

Here's another thought on it though. Yamun Khahan certainly used this ability, as have numerous Orc kings like Obould in the past. They weren't necessarily epic level characters.


I suppose in 2e terms, this is close to Quest Spells, which could only be used under certain circumstances. I would guess that a barbarian would have so many followers (on a regular basis) but then would need to go on a quest to build up a horde.

Perhaps the barbarian needs to take his regular followers and hirelings (or the nomadic version of hirelings) into battle to help campaign (politically) to win the hearts and minds of other tribes.

I suppose the key things would be public speaking, to swing the opinions of tribesmen, choosing an enemy that people believed they could defeat (or fight honorably against), to show (not tell) that they could plan combat in an effective way and to promse everyone a share in the spoils that would satisfy them that it was worth their while.

Perhaps this would be something that a PC would only get one shot at.

Or maybe they could carry on fighting other battles, while they were having successes, but then loose their "temporary followers" if defeated. (Although, maybe winning a lot of spoils could be just as bad as some of your forces might loot so much stuff that they can't carry any more and then go home.)


If it wasn't for the copyright issues and the length of the text, I'd show you that it basically goes exactly this way. The writer probably had Quest spells in mind when he wrote it.


Either that or the Quest spells were based on the same idea as this ability.

Cthulhudrew wrote:Now that I think about it, the Barbarian class in the 1E Oriental Adventures had a "Gather Horde" ability, too.


Thanks Drew. I've got OA (as it was on my "you need this for Shou Lung in Spelljammer" list). I'll have to have a look to see how it compares.

BlackBat242 wrote:The Barbarian class in the 1E UA could summon a Horde once he was 8th-level.

He could summon his experience-point total divided by 1000 in barbarians of his own type, and only in his home territory (275 for a barely-8th-level and 500 for a barely-9th-level).

The horde takes a week to gather, will only remain for 1 week per level of the summoner, and must have a specific and narrowly-defined goal. Various special circumstances (summoner is also a tribal leader, the goal is not reached but is very close, lots of loot is distributed, etc) can extend the horde for 1-2 weeks each, but if the horde disbands against the summoner's will "he will not receive a warm welcome when he returns to his homeland".

As part of the horde, there will be two aids of half the summoner's level, who will each have two assistants of half their level.


Thanks BlackBat. It does seem like this is a central theme of the character class. I think that is one raidable thing from The Complete Barbarian's Handbook.

I'll have to see if there is other stuff that can swing the book into my "must buy this" list.
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