[OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

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[OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:04 pm

This is a 1e and 2e monster I have converted for my Council of Wryms project. A very different version of Gargantua first appeared in the Companion box of BECMI in 1984 but the first time the humanoid, reptilian, and insectile gargantua appeared was in Oriental Adventures 1e in 1985. As well as these settings they would be of use to any DM looking to challenge a high level party.
Comments? Corrections?

Humanoid Gargantua
Gargantuan Giant, Chaotic Neutral
Armour Class 16 (Natural Armour, thick hide)
Hit points 624 (32d20+288)
Speed 50 feet
STR 28 (+9), DEX 8 (-1), CON 28 (+9), INT 6 (-2), WIS 6 (-2), CHA 8 (-1)
Saving Throws. Strength +17, Constitution +17
Senses. Passive perception 8.
Challenge 26 (90000 xp)
Languages: Humanoid gargantua generally understand and speak some monosyllabic words in both Common and Giant but do not have fully developed language.
Trampling Charge: If the gargantua moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature and then hits it with a unarmed attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 25 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the Gargantua can make a trample attack against it as a bonus action.
Regeneration. The gargantua regains 16 hit points at the start of its turn. The gargantua dies if it starts its turn with 0 hit points.
Legendary Resistance (2/Day). If the gargantua fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead.
Actions
Multiattack: the gargantua makes two unarmed attacks.
Unarmed: Melee weapon attack +17 to hit, reach 15 feet, one target. Hit: damage 25 (3d10+9) bludgeoning damage.
Trample: Melee weapon attack can only be used against prone targets, +17 to hit, reach 5 feet, one target. Hit: 58 (9d10+9) bludgeoning damage.
Frightful Presence: . Each creature of the gargantua’s choice within 120 feet of it and aware of it must succeed on a DC15 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, with disadvantage if the gargantua is within line of sight, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the gargantua's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Legendary Actions
The gargantua an take 2 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. The gargantua regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Attack. The gargantua makes one unarmed attack, club or club greatclub attack.
Move. The gargantua moves up to half its speed.

Club Variant
Occasionally a humanoid gargantua finds a tree large enough to serve as a club or even a great club.
Club Melee weapon attack +17 to hit, reach 15 feet, one target. Hit: damage 23 (4d6+9) bludgeoning damage.
Great Club Melee weapon attack +17 to hit, reach 15 feet, one target. Hit: damage 27 (4d8+9) bludgeoning damage.

Design notes:
Design notes: DPR 191. Effective HP732, AC16, attack bonus +17 (6 over 11 so +3 off challenge). Defense Challenge 27, offence Challenge 26= 26 average. Added frightful presence, legendary resistance, and legendary actions which the 2e version does not have. Since this monster is intended to fight high level characters Frightful Presence does not affect Challenge.

DPR redo= 2xunarmed+trample+legendary move+unarmed+trample= 2x25+58+25+58=191
Last edited by Coronoides on Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Hugin » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:03 pm

Things look good after a first pass through. I got the same CR results as you did (using your figures) although I wasn't able to get quite the same drp (I was close) and I don't know exactly how you got the effective hps even though I'm sure it is from regeneration (my DMG is lent out currently).

I ended up with the same hit points as you but differently, which I thought was kind of funny. I got 32*10.5=336 plus 32*9=288 for a total of 624. I noticed your CON mod to hit points was 304 but came to the same end result. Typo?

The only (ever so slight) correction was in the average rolls for damage. 5E has a general "round down" rule, so for example, with the unarmed attack rolling 3d10+9, it would be 5.5 + 5.5 + 5.5 = 16.5 plus 9 equalling 25.5, rounded down to 25 (instead of rounding to 26). This is how the monster manual handles it as well. This is obviously not a material factor for this creature.

Oh, why are the club attacks at +16 to hit instead of +17? I can't figure it out.

I quite like what you've done with this! Great job and thanks for posting (and for inviting comments and discussion).

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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:12 am

Editing above based on your feedback. Much of it is typos and other effects of working on RPG stuff in 20min bursts on trams or before morning coffee. (On a tram right now)
DPR is based on multiattack, trampling charge, and legendary action attacks: Multiattack with unarmed 2x25+58+2x25=158 base DPR. OK I missed something the first time.
Effective HP affected by regeneration and legendary saves.

Next: Council of Wryms Gargantua Yeti!
Last edited by Coronoides on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Morfie » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:38 am

Coronoides wrote: Gargantua first appeared in Oriental Adventures 1e.
Gargantua first appeared in BECMI's Companion Set, published in 1984. OA was in 1985. Shared staff working on both of these included Frank Mentzer and Anne Grey, either could've been an influence.
Companion Set had Carrion Crawler, Troll, & Gargoyle, as opposed to OA's Humanoid/Insect/Reptilian.

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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:45 am

Morfie wrote:
Coronoides wrote: Gargantua first appeared in Oriental Adventures 1e.
Gargantua first appeared in BECMI's Companion Set, published in 1984. OA was in 1985. Shared staff working on both of these included Frank Mentzer and Anne Grey, either could've been an influence.
Companion Set had Carrion Crawler, Troll, & Gargoyle, as opposed to OA's Humanoid/Insect/Reptilian.
That is interesting. Other than a few sessions with the Red Box never played BECMI and never really got in the Mystara lore. As an AD&D guy I was very jealous of the supplements detailing unusual PC races.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:52 am

Noticed that if instead of two attacks the humanoid gargantua uses his legendary actions for a half move and attack then this triggers another trample. This boosts the DPR. First post changed to reflect this.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:06 am

Yeti Gargantua
These dreaded creatures are unique to the frozen north of Io’s Blood Isles of the Council of Wryms setting. They combine the chilling powers and ferocity of a yeti with the terrifying strength and immensity of a 90 foot tall gargantua.
Gargantuan monstrosity, chaotic evil
Armour Class 18 Natural armour
Hit Points 624 (32d20+288)
Speed 50 Climb 50
STR 28 (+9), DEX 8 (-1), CON 28 (+9), INT 6 (-2), WIS 6 (-2), CHA 8 (-1)
Saving Throws. Strength +17, Constitution +17
Senses: Darkvision 120 feet. Passive perception 8.
Challenge. 28 (120 000)
Languages: Yeti gargantua generally understand and speak some monosyllabic words in Yeti but do not have fully developed language.
Trampling Charge: If the gargantua moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature and then hits it with a unarmed attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 25 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the Gargantua can make a trample attack against it as a bonus action.
Regeneration. The gargantua regains 16 hit points at the start of its turn. The gargantua dies if it starts its turn with 0 hit points.
Legendary Resistance (2/Day). If the gargantua fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead.
Fear of Fire. If the gargantua takes fire damage, it has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks until the end of its next turn .
Keen Smell. The gargantua has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.
Snow Camouflage. The gargantua has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide in snowy terrain.
Actions
Multiattack. The gargantua can use its Chilling Gaze and makes two claw attacks.
Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +17 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target . Hit: 23 (4d6 + 9) slashing damage plus 14 (4d6) cold damage.
Chilling Gaze. The yeti targets one creature it can see within 30 feet of it. If the target can see the yeti, the target must succeed on a DC 18 Constitution saving throw against this magic or take 73 (12d6) cold damage and then be paralyzed for 1 minute, unless it is immune to cold damage. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, end ing the effect on itself on a success. If the target's saving throw is successful , or if the effect ends on it, the target is immune to this yeti's gaze for 1 hour.
Cold Breath (Recharge 6). The yeti exhales a 30-foot cone of frigid air. Each creature in that area must make a DC 18 Constitution saving throw, taking 45 (10d8) cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Trample: Melee weapon attack can only be used against prone targets, +17 to hit, reach 5 feet, one target. Hit: 58 (9d10+9) bludgeoning damage.
Frightful Presence: . Each creature of the gargantua’s choice within 120 feet of it and aware of it must succeed on a DC15 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, with disadvantage if the gargantua is within line of sight, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the gargantua's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.
Legendary Actions
The gargantua an take 2 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. The gargantua regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Attack. The gargantua makes one claw attack.
Move. The gargantua moves up to half its speed.

Design notes: DPR=Chilling Gaze+2xclaw+trample+legendary move+attack+trample = 73+2x23+58+23+58=258. Attack roll +17. Off Challenge 29. Hit points 624+2xlegendary resistance+regeneration=624+2x30+3x16=732 effective Hits. No change for AC. Def Challenge 28. Final Challenge 28.
Last edited by Coronoides on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Hugin » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:06 am

Looks really good, Coronoides. I gave it pass through my excel sheet and it seemed to work out as you have it too, which is good.

These are way higher levels than I'm used to playing around with though.

Our games are only at levels 5 and 6! So far... :mrgreen:

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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:49 am

Hugin wrote:Looks really good, Coronoides. I gave it pass through my excel sheet and it seemed to work out as you have it too, which is good.

These are way higher levels than I'm used to playing around with though.

Our games are only at levels 5 and 6! So far... :mrgreen:
Yeh me too, and I haven’t done a whole lot of monster creation. This is super daunting and so I am very grateful for the help I’m receiving.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:10 pm

Reptilian Gargantua
Gargantuan Monstrosity Chaotic neutral
An enormous bipedal lizard easily 200 foot long.
Armour Class. 18 Natural Armour
Hit Points. 697 (34d20+340)
Speed 40, Swim 30
STR 30 (+10), DEX 8 (-1), CON 28 (+9), INT 6 (-2), WIS 8 (-1), CHA 6 (-2)
Saving Throws. Strength +19 and Constitution +18
Senses. Darkvision 120 feet, Passive perception 18
Challenge. 29 (135000 xp).
Languages. Nil
Sweeping Tail. Every time the gargantua moves its full land or swim speed it can also makes a tail sweep as a bonus action.
Trampling Charge: If the gargantua moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature on land and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 25 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the Gargantua can make a trample attack against it as a bonus action.
Regeneration. The gargantua regains 16 hit points at the start of its turn. The gargantua dies if it starts its turn with 0 hit points.
Legendary Resistance (3/Day). If the gargantua fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead.
Actions
Multiattack. The gargantua can make two claw attacks and a bite as an action.
Bite. Melee weapon attack +18 to hit, reach 15 feet, 65 (5d10+10) piercing damage.
Claw. Melee weapon attack +18 to hit, reach 15 feet, 21 (2d10+10) slashing damage.
Tail Sweep. The gargantua’s tail sweeps through a 90’ cone all creatures within the cone must make a DC27 Dexterity save or suffer 48 (7d10+10) bludgeoning damage and be knocked prone. A successful save avoids all damage.
Trample: Melee weapon attack can only be used against prone targets, +18 to hit, reach 5 feet, one target. Hit: 59 (9d10+10) bludgeoning damage.
Legendary Actions.
The gargantua can take one legendary action, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. The gargantua regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Tail Sweep. The gargantua performs a tail sweep.
Claw. The gargantua makes one claw attack.
Move. The gargantua moves up to half its speed.

Design notes: the initial build had 902hp, more than allowed for on the DMG274 table. Effective HP=697+3xlegendary resistance + regeneration= 697+3x30+3x16= 835 Def Challenge 30.
DPR= super tricky: move+sweeping tail+multiattack+trampling charge+legendary tail sweep=48+(2x21+65)+59+48=252 which is 27 but modified for attack bonus is 29. Final challenge 29.
Last edited by Coronoides on Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Seethyr » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:22 pm

If you could get your hands on Dragon #289 there is a wonderful article on kaiju creation as a template which would undoubtedly help develop some new gargantua. I get the impression a 5e conversion of those rules would actually be relatively simple.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:21 am

I don’t have that one but will keep an eye out for it.

EDIT: Also I’ve lowered the Reptilian and Yeti AC to 18. This has no effect on Challenge.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:30 pm

After a sojourn into factions I'm back putting the finishing touches on the Insectile gargantua. Unlike the Mystara ones the AD&D gargantua do seem to be rip-off of old Japanese Kaiju films. So, next Mothra!!
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:44 am

Question for you all: DPR=Screeching wingbeats+(windstorm or Multiattack?)+3 legendary claw. The problem is evaluating Screeching Wingbeats and Windstorm. Based on DMG249 these typically hit 48 targets every time they are used. However, this seems stupid most of the time (dragon) PCs wont bring an army with them. Let’s assume all the PCs in a party are affected and ‘count’. Great is this a typical party of 4, a party of 6, or a CoW party of Character sets totaling 8-12 PCs? What are your thoughts?

EDIT: final version below.
Last edited by Coronoides on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Hugin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:38 pm

Coronoides wrote:Question for you all: DPR=Screeching wingbeats+(windstorm or Multiattack?)+3 legendary claw. The problem is evaluating Screeching Wingbeats and Windstorm. Based on DMG249 these typically hit 48 targets every time they are used. However, this seems stupid most of the time (dragon) PCs wont bring an army with them. Let’s assume all the PCs in a party are affected and ‘count’. Great is this a typical party of 4, a party of 6, or a CoW party of Character sets totaling 8-12 PCs? What are your thoughts?
Personally, I wouldn't apply the guidelines on DMG249 for CR calculation purposes; they seem more for playing without miniatures.

Using DMG277-278 as guidance, I would probably use 1/2 of a PC party *at absolute most* (so 2-4 targets). The examples there seem to suggest using only one or two targets in most cases, even though many more are possible (such as in the cone and aura examples).

I don't know how playing in a CoW game could affect this, though.

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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:53 pm

Except in this example its likely to be everyone given 240 ft radius effect so maybe I go with 4 targets, a full regular D&D party or half of a CoW one (dragon's high flight speed move having an effect)
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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Hugin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:02 pm

I think that sounds reasonable. I'd definitely only use it once in the average damage calculation though (given the movement requirement).

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Re: [OA] [CoW] Gargantua for 5e

Post by Coronoides » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:05 am

Final version of the adult Insectoid Gargantua (aka Mothra). In AD&D there were stats for lava as well. I’ll leave those for now. Therefore this is the very probably last monster in this thread at least until I get to converting the cards in the boxed set some time in the distant future.

Insectoid Gargantua
Gargantuan monstrosity chaotic neutral
A 60 foot long moth.
Armour Class. 14 Natural Armour
Hit Points. 459 hp (27d20+162)
Speed. 15 feet. Fly 90 feet.
STR 26 (+8) DEX 10 (+0) CON 24 (+6) INT 6 (-2) WIS 8 (-1) CHA 4 (-3)
Saving Throws. Strength + Constitution +
Senses. Darkvision 120 feet. Passive Perception 9
Challenge. 21
Languages. Nil
Legendary Resistance (1/Day). If the gargantua fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead.
Regeneration. The gargantua regains 16 hit points at the start of its turn. The gargantua dies if it starts its turn with 0 hit points.
Screeching Wingbeats. If an insectoid gargantua moves is full flight speed then its wings generate a terribly loud and unnerving screeching sound. All creatures within a 240 foot radius of its final position must make a DC23 constitution save or suffer 3 (1d4) thunder damage, 3 (1d4) psychic damage, and be deafened.
Actions
Windstorm. the beating of the creature’s wings creates a strong wind in a 60 foot wide and 240 foot line ahead of the gargantua. Creatures caught in the blast must make a DC23 strength save or be blown back 1d4x10 feet and receive 4 (1d6) bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet they are blown back. Unanchored objects of less than huge size and mass are also blown back and damaged.
Claw: Melee weapon attack +15 to hit, reach 15 feet, one target. Hit: 19 (2d10+8) slashing damage.
Multiattack. The gargantua can make two claw attacks as an action.
Legendary Actions.
The gargantua can take three legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. The gargantua regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Claw. The gargantua makes one claw attack.
Move. The gargantua moves up to half its speed.
Fly. The gargantuan moves up to half its flight speed.

Design notes: Effective hp=459hp+1xlegendary resistance+regeneration=459+30+3x16=537. Def Challenge 22 including change for AC. DPR=Screeching wingbeats+ Multiattack+3 legendary claw=4x(3+3)+38+3x19=119DPR. Assuming 4 targets within the wingbeats effect. Off Challenge 19. Modified for attack bonus 14 = 21. Total challenge 21.5, rounds to 21. And attack bonus up to +15.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/magh66x3ly8q5 ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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