Doresain in 5e

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Seethyr
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Doresain in 5e

Post by Seethyr » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:49 pm

Under the ghoul entry in the MM, they bring up all the prior lore about Doresain in passing, but then the book mentions that he pleaded to the elven gods for help when Orcus ignored his call (upon Yeenoghu’s attack on the White Kingdom) and the gods took pity on him. This is the explanation as to why elves are immune to a ghoul’s paralyzing touch.

I’m a sucker for redemption arcs. Am I being too extreme in thinking that Doresain might at least become a little less evil because of this? Would he spare an elf that strolled into the White Kingdom? Is there more lore on this hidden somewhere, even unofficially?
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Re: Doresain in 5e

Post by ripvanwormer » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:08 pm

I'm not sure if this helps, but my take on Doresain is here: viewtopic.php?t=15428&p=173966
ripvanwormer wrote:Doresain, a warrior-priest dedicated to Sehanine Moonbow, was sent to the north to the lands drained by the Flanmi River to war against the troglodyte allies of the serpent empire. An unusually cold winter, brought about by the emergence of the alien entity Father Llymic through the Vast Gate in the Griff Mountains, left Doresain and his troops trapped by snow and frost, his entrapment aggravated by a blockade of quaggoths. The elves resorted to cannibalism to survive, roasting and eating their own dead as they died of starvation, eating their flesh raw when they ran out of wood to build fires. With even those grisly rations rapidly diminishing, Doresain at last took the advice of an Ur-Flannae sorcerer and twisted the rites of Sehanine Moonbow with blasphemies the Ur-Flannae taught him to summon a dark creature from the Abyss, a balor called Glyphimhor. Glyphimhor promised him that with the aid of his patron, the demon prince Orcus, Doresain would not need to fear that any more of his troops would starve. Trusting a demon lord led to a predictable result: Glyphimhor unleashed a pack of nabassu and Doresain and his army were transformed into ghouls, perhaps the first of that fell race to exist on Oerth. Perhaps it was Orcus's perverse idea of a reward to his new servant that led to the paralyzing touch of a ghoul having no effect on elves. Perhaps Doresain was even canny enough to bargain for that small indulgence.

Amaranthe received reports of Doresain's appalling corruption and sent word to Lafarillin to delay his assault on the serpent peoples' capital, instead turning his forces to destroy Doresain before the plague of undeath spread to other elven communities. Lafarallinn confronted his former colleague in the heart of the Adri Forest, and during a terrible battle that left hundreds of casualties among both the living and the hungry dead, he faced Doresain personally, his sword of wounding against Doresain's staff, and banished Doresain's spirit to the Negative Energy Plane.
I didn't really deal with the 5e backstory, but I also had Doresain as an elf, gifted/betrayed by Orcus. I like the idea that he might seek out some small amount of redemption later on, calling in his time of need to the elven gods he had forsaken.

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Re: Doresain in 5e

Post by Big Mac » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:14 am

So who is Doresain now (in 5e lore)? Has he turned into the deity of the ghouls? Or has he remained the creator of the ghouls and nothing else?

Has 5e lore got him down as being on the Negative Energy Plane? Does that plane still exist in the 5e cosmology?

Is there a way for PCs to actually travel to the White Kingdom? Is it in the planes? Is there any way that Doresain might actually be worked into a 5e adventure book in the future?
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Re: Doresain in 5e

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:20 pm

Big Mac wrote:So who is Doresain now (in 5e lore)? Has he turned into the deity of the ghouls? Or has he remained the creator of the ghouls and nothing else?
Orcus is the creator of the ghouls. Doresain is the first ghoul.
Has 5e lore got him down as being on the Negative Energy Plane?
He dwells in the Abyss, on a layer called the White Kingdom. I mentioned the Negative Energy Plane above because that's where he was summoned from in Dungeon #70, but I see that was confusing.
Does that plane still exist in the 5e cosmology?
Yes.
Is there a way for PCs to actually travel to the White Kingdom? Is it in the planes? Is there any way that Doresain might actually be worked into a 5e adventure book in the future?
It's a layer of the Abyss. There's a 4e adventure that involves traveling to it called Kingdom of the Ghouls.

Note that the 5e Monster Manual doesn't use the words "White Kingdom." It simply says that Yeenoghu "robbed Doresain of his Abyssal domain." It was previous editions that named that domain the White Kingdom.

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Re: Doresain in 5e

Post by Seethyr » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:36 pm

ripvanwormer wrote: I didn't really deal with the 5e backstory, but I also had Doresain as an elf, gifted/betrayed by Orcus. I like the idea that he might seek out some small amount of redemption later on, calling in his time of need to the elven gods he had forsaken.
That really would be a nice addition to his lore - he always seemed at least, I don't know, "polite?" even when he was serving up some tasty human in the past. Can you be redeemed from that?

That's really nice backstory ripvanwormer, I wish WotC would go with it.
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