[Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

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[Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Havard » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:38 pm

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We have talked about this collectors product earlier here on The Piazza, but now Goodman Games have released more details and the neat cover image for the upcoming B1+B2 collection. Here are the things the book will include:

  • Restored scans of two complete printings of the original B1: In Search of the Unknown. Specifically, the second and sixth printings, one featuring the original monochrome cover and the other featuring the later color cover by Darlene.
  • Three complete monster and treasure assortments for stocking the dungeons of In Search of the Unknown (which are “un-stocked” in the original 1E edition).
  • Restored scans of two complete printings of the original B2: The Keep on the Borderlands. Specifically the second and fourth printings. These are distinguished the change in monster stats between the two printings (Dexterity scores were included in early printings). The later printing also features six interior illustrations that were not present in earlier printings.
  • A complete, “pure” 5E conversion of In Search of the Unknown, including tables for stocking it with creatures.
  • A separate chapter with a few new encounters for the Caverns of Quasqueton, all inspired by references in the original work.
  • A complete, “pure” 5E conversion of The Keep on the Borderlands.
  • A separate chapter with a few new encounters for The Keep on the Borderlands, all inspired by references in the original work.
  • Appendices with 5E stats for newly introduced monsters, hirelings and followers, and magic items.
  • A chapter of introductions and testimonials.
More details on the Goodman Games Page.

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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Dragonhelm » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:39 pm

I think this was a really good partnership. This fits in real well with what Goodman does, and allows for the old products to be available to a new generation.

Any word on whether the scans will have both the 1e and 5e stats, or just 5e?

And what does this do for future installments of Tales From the Yawning Portal?
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Dread Delgath » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:47 pm

Dragonhelm wrote:I think this was a really good partnership. This fits in real well with what Goodman does, and allows for the old products to be available to a new generation.

Any word on whether the scans will have both the 1e and 5e stats, or just 5e?

And what does this do for future installments of Tales From the Yawning Portal?
To the Basic* D&D stats and 5e stats: Yes (see quote in Havard's OP, above), although the "scans" will be solely from the Basic printings as listed above (2nd & 6th for B1, 2nd & 4th for B2), and full conversions from the originals to 5e rules.

As to future installments of Yawning Portal: I was unaware that YP was not a stand-alone product! :shock: I thought it was a self-contained book, like all the other 'module' hardbacks that have preceded it.

Please, if someone knows more on this, tell us! :cool:

*There is some wilful confusion about the term "1e" regarding this product that is ongoing. B1 and B2 were never for first edition AD&D, they were released for the Basic D&D set, starting with the "bluebook" or "Holmes" edition of Basic, and later for the "B/X" or "Moldvay" edition of Basic. :geek:

You certainly could have, and I did - run B1 & B2 with 1e rules, as I ran "Basic" and "Expert" modules with 1e rules, AND used a combination of Basic, BX, and 1e rules as I ran my games, bitd.

There are some of us old heads that still run or collect pure 1e, or pure Basic, BX, or BECMI. The distinction is on purpose, and 'crossing the streams' leads to all sorts of compatibility issues as to what products go with which system. :ugeek:
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Dragonhelm » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:10 am

Dread Delgath wrote: As to future installments of Yawning Portal: I was unaware that YP was not a stand-alone product! :shock: I thought it was a self-contained book, like all the other 'module' hardbacks that have preceded it.

Please, if someone knows more on this, tell us! :cool:
Nothing definitive, but Mike Mearls hinted that it may be a possibility.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Dread Delgath » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:45 am

I have pre-ordered Into the Borderlands at my FLGS, although a release date has not been announced (according to my FLGS internet sources.) I am assured that when they get it, they will call me, and I will go in and pay the balance, an additional $48 and change.* :mrgreen:

(*Pre-ordering an item costs $5.00 (store policy), the balance due upon arrival.)
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by paleologos » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:08 pm

I'm really looking forward to this...

Does anyone else think they should have just split up the book into 2 volumes? Perhaps with a slipcase or something. A 300+ page tome is going to be hard to run from the gaming table.

Most interested to see how they tackled the tower in B1, and the Cave of the Unknown in B2.

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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Dread Delgath » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:40 am

I have no idea why WotC are going the hardback route with their "modules", but I suppose its what Piazo does(?) with theirs, so WotC is following that business model.

Having said that, no matter what anyone else has said at the gaming tables since 5e's debut of their hardback modules, they (WotC) have yet to capitulate on the format.

Personally, I dislike the quality of their hardbacks, but, given the scope of their module adventure arcs, (levels 1-10) I suppose hardback is the best way to go. Softcovers with those page counts could not stand up to the abuse that hardbacks do, but the other alternative is to split up the arcs into 2 or more smaller volumes, softcover probably being preferable, as I cannot see the point of making smaller volumes into hardbacks because of size and space, mainly.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by BotWizo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:46 pm

I am just wondering why scan b1 twice and b2 twice?
I don't think the differences were big enough to have the product include two scans of each module, why not just include a few pages at the end of the preferred version with alternate pages that have significantly different content. I have seen the different versions and wouldn't think either product needs two full scans in the same hardcover.

I am excited for the product, and I am hoping they don't plop quasqueton where the cave of the unknown is on the B2 map, but if they do, it wont ruin my day.If this is the case I will feel they were lazy. Since that would have been a neat location to strut your stuff designing a new cave system for your 5e update.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by paleologos » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:10 am

I like the fact that they're reprinting both the Holmes and B/X versions of both modules. Nice to have both in your collection.

I think plopping B1 into the Cave of the Unknown was the idea in "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" by John Rateliff, and I agree that it's a lazy idea. If we're plopping something in, then my choice would be the lost caverns of Tsojconth, also by Gygax.

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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by ghendar » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:51 pm

paleologos wrote:
I think plopping B1 into the Cave of the Unknown was the idea in "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" by John Rateliff, and I agree that it's a lazy idea. If we're plopping something in, then my choice would be the lost caverns of Tsojconth, also by Gygax.
Except that the character levels for both modules don't match up. You'd need to have the PCs gain more experience before tackling Tsojcanth.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by paleologos » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:52 am

ghendar wrote:
paleologos wrote:
I think plopping B1 into the Cave of the Unknown was the idea in "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" by John Rateliff, and I agree that it's a lazy idea. If we're plopping something in, then my choice would be the lost caverns of Tsojconth, also by Gygax.
Except that the character levels for both modules don't match up. You'd need to have the PCs gain more experience before tackling Tsojcanth.
Agreed, the OD&D tournament adventure that the AD&D module was based on is roughly for levels 6-7. However, when I ran it for my group, I found the lethality was less than expected (and certainly much less than S4). I think a party levels 4-6 could actually handle it.

Inspired, I pulled together a 16-page document combining the original version with some room descriptions from the latter version, complete with a B1/B2-style rumor table. Going further, I fashioned this in a B1-style "stock your own dungeon" and included a monster and treasure list drawn from the original adventure, but with a liberal dosing of B/X creatures. Finally, I include a "new monsters" section for the OD&D versions of those creatures in the original tournament version.

The result is that you can tailor the caverns to your party. The cool thing is that Gygax designed the maps (apparently based on something by Kuntz) and they just feel "right" for B2. Exploring them would be half the fun for a low-level party, and you can restock them with tougher creatures as the party gets tougher.

Lastly, although the boss encounter is with a vampiress, she's forced to use an intelligent sword (special purpose to slay lawful clerics) and so the party isn't subject to her energy drains. Still, she would be plenty reason enough for the passageway from Cave K to be blocked up!

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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by ghendar » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:36 pm

That's very cool. Thanks for sharing.

There was a guy over at Dragonsfoot a couple/few years ago who took the Tsojcanth maps and essentially cut them up so you could add in more stuff inbetween the encounter areas. He posted pics but the last time I looked the links were dead. It was an interesting idea because it provided for more space and allowed for more freedom of movement, potentially lessening the "monster zoo" aspect of the Lost Caverns.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by paleologos » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:17 pm

ghendar wrote:There was a guy over at Dragonsfoot a couple/few years ago who took the Tsojcanth maps and essentially cut them up so you could add in more stuff inbetween the encounter areas. He posted pics but the last time I looked the links were dead. It was any interesting idea because it provided for more space and allowed for more freedom of movement, potentially lessening the "monster zoo" aspect of the Lost Caverns.
I remember that - neat idea, but why give up on the Gygaxian glory of the caverns? Better to just restock to your liking. Don't like the monster zoo? Stock fewer monsters, or more similar types.

I love the exploration aspect of the caverns. They're a perfect template for whatever you want to put in there, something like B1, just a different set of maps...imagine a low-level party stumbling into there! Nothing I could come up with myself would ever compare to the otherworldliness of Gary's creation.

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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by ghendar » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:42 pm

paleologos wrote: I remember that - neat idea, but why give up on the Gygaxian glory of the caverns? Better to just restock to your liking. Don't like the monster zoo? Stock fewer monsters, or more similar types.
I don't disagree but the idea of expanding the size of the caverns is appealing to me. Don't get me wrong though, I could run it as is with no issues whatsoever.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Big Mac » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:13 pm

Dread Delgath wrote:I have pre-ordered Into the Borderlands at my FLGS, although a release date has not been announced (according to my FLGS internet sources.) I am assured that when they get it, they will call me, and I will go in and pay the balance, an additional $48 and change.* :mrgreen:

(*Pre-ordering an item costs $5.00 (store policy), the balance due upon arrival.)
I'll be interested to hear what you think of it, after you get it.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Big Mac » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:14 pm

ghendar wrote:There was a guy over at Dragonsfoot a couple/few years ago who took the Tsojcanth maps and essentially cut them up so you could add in more stuff inbetween the encounter areas. He posted pics but the last time I looked the links were dead. It was an interesting idea because it provided for more space and allowed for more freedom of movement, potentially lessening the "monster zoo" aspect of the Lost Caverns.
That sounds like it would be of interest to people wanting to run the adventures.

If you ever find it, I'd like to get the link added to the appropriate page on the Book-House on The Piazza.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Big Mac » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:16 pm

ghendar wrote:
paleologos wrote: I remember that - neat idea, but why give up on the Gygaxian glory of the caverns? Better to just restock to your liking. Don't like the monster zoo? Stock fewer monsters, or more similar types.
I don't disagree but the idea of expanding the size of the caverns is appealing to me. Don't get me wrong though, I could run it as is with no issues whatsoever.
I'd rather have access to fanon material that I choose not to use, than have nothing to look at, when I'm researching a specific RPG product. Maybe someone could use that fanon material as some other caves nearby, and still use the Gygaxian map.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by ghendar » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:29 pm

Big Mac wrote:
ghendar wrote:There was a guy over at Dragonsfoot a couple/few years ago who took the Tsojcanth maps and essentially cut them up so you could add in more stuff inbetween the encounter areas. He posted pics but the last time I looked the links were dead. It was an interesting idea because it provided for more space and allowed for more freedom of movement, potentially lessening the "monster zoo" aspect of the Lost Caverns.
That sounds like it would be of interest to people wanting to run the adventures.

If you ever find it, I'd like to get the link added to the appropriate page on the Book-House on The Piazza.
I'll keep looking. I've considered just doing a version myself though. Shouldn't be too difficult to cut, move, paste just using MS Paint.
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Havard » Fri May 11, 2018 3:46 pm

Any news on this one?

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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by ghendar » Fri May 11, 2018 9:26 pm

Havard wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:46 pm
Any news on this one?

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Did you see this thread?
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Havard » Fri May 11, 2018 10:44 pm

ghendar wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:26 pm
Havard wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:46 pm
Any news on this one?

-Havard
Did you see this thread?
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/view ... 38&t=79608
No, I guess I missed that.

So pre-orders aren't shipping till summer. I didn't pre-order so I guess that means even more waiting. Oh well.

Thanks Ghendar! :)

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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Dread Delgath » Sun May 27, 2018 1:13 am

Havard wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:44 pm
ghendar wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:26 pm
Havard wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:46 pm
Any news on this one?

-Havard
Did you see this thread?
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/view ... 38&t=79608
No, I guess I missed that.

So pre-orders aren't shipping till summer. I didn't pre-order so I guess that means even more waiting. Oh well.

Thanks Ghendar! :)

-Havard
I haven't been online recently - as I've been too busy reading Into the Borderlands & Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes... ;)

The information as reported via Dragonsfoot about not shipping until summer was bad/wrong info, and I apologize for that. I was informed by someone that I would have otherwise expected to be more in the know than I was at the time.

Into the Borderlands shipped a few weeks ago, at least to the WotC stores, like my own FLGS.

Overall the book is good, giving you the first few versions of B1 and B2, which are informative to the D&D historians who've never seen the originals, and/or are interested in running B1 or B2 with Holmes, BX or even 0e.

Since I have the originals, (for Holmes & BX, but not the exact printings they presented in this book) those inclusions were superfluous, but, my original B2 is falling apart, so its great to have a version that is pristine.

That said, I wish GG had done the material from this book in several thinner, easier to table-top folios.

I've barely started running the 5e version of B1 for my players, and that side-game is on hold until I am sorely short of players again. (I ran B1 a few weeks ago when several players had stuff going on...) So far, the 5e version runs pretty smoothly, but they didn't even get past the first pair of statues from the entry hallway.

:cool:
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by NPCDave » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:44 am

Yesterday was Free RPG Day, and I visited a couple of game stores in the area and picked up some of the freebies being offered.

One of those was from Goodman Games....
http://goodman-games.com/blog/2018/06/1 ... e-rpg-day/

And if you look on that page, one of the two offerings they had for the day was a 5E adventure called Beneath the Keep.

I am leafing through it today and I realized, yeah, it is that keep, the Keep on the Borderlands. It doesn't explicitly link to their B1-2 offering, but all the relevant references to the nearby caves and evil temple are there along with the Keep itself which is where this mini-adventure takes place.

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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by Tim Baker » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:59 pm

NPCDave wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:44 am
one of the two offerings they had for the day was a 5E adventure called Beneath the Keep.

I am leafing through it today and I realized, yeah, it is that keep, the Keep on the Borderlands. It doesn't explicitly link to their B1-2 offering, but all the relevant references to the nearby caves and evil temple are there along with the Keep itself which is where this mini-adventure takes place.
Very cool. Aside from being interesting as a tie-in, is it well-written? Does it provide anything worth incorporating into a game?
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Re: [Goodman Games] Into the Borderlands!

Post by NPCDave » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:24 pm

It is a small dungeon crawl underneath the keep that is being used by a wererat who works for the temple of Chaos found in the Caves of Chaos. It is designed to be played in an hour or two. Straightforward, functional and unexceptional. It is just a few pages and I think the best anyone could do under those constraints is write a single exceptional encounter, not multiple encounters.

So it is a nice optional add-on if you plan to build a campaign around Goodman's Into the Borderlands offering, but you won't miss it if you don't have it.

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