Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

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Coronoides
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Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

Post by Coronoides » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:26 am

I am converting the 2e boxed set Council of Wryms to 5e. In the boxed set the Dragon Slayer kit is recommended for use as a PC option for other campaigns. Therefore for my conversion I'm making a 5e Dragon Slayer Oath for the Paladin class. The idea is to emulate the features of the 2e kit with 5e rules. I've never made a subclass for this edition before and would really like some feedback on my ideas before I spend too much time writing out the oath in full.
I've been playing it safe by repurposing features from other archetypes and classes. However there is one new feature, the breath stun.
XGE = Xanathar's Guide to Everything

Dragon slayers as paladins
Dragon slayers swear to hunt and kill dragons, they are members of the paladin class. There is a new Oath of the Dragonslayerto emulate most of the features of the 2e kit. Most dragon slayers also take the following options from the core paladin class, but they are not obliged to do so. At 2nd level most take the Great weapon fighting style. At 4th level rather than an attribute increase most slayers take the Skilled feat to learn skills Animal Handling, Survival, and Vehicles (Wa-ter). At 5th level most choose Find Steed as a paladin spell.

Oath of the Dragon Slayer
At 3rd level the Dragon slayer gains the following features.
Oath Spells
3rd Shield of Faith
5th Protection from Poison
9th Protection from Energy
13th Find Greater Steed (XGE156)
17th Holy Weapon (XGE157)
Dragon Foe.
You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track dragon type creatures, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them. Howeyour distaste for drag-ons is too intense to be hidden; you also have disadvantage on all Charisma checks when dealing with dragon type creatures. When you gain this feature, you also learn the Draconic language. In a Council of Wryms campaign you may choose to learn the Metallic, Gem, or Chromatic lan-guage instead.
Channel Divinity
The dragon slayer only has two channel divine options at 3rd level.
• Conquering Presence as per XGE38. Needed for Aura of Conquest later.
• Dragon Slayer’s Oath: As per Oath of Enmity PHB88 except that the chosen foe must have the Dragon type.
At 7th Level
Aura of Conquest. As per XGE38.
At 15th level
Breath Stun. When you make a successful attack with a melee weapon against a creature that breathes you may cause the creature to hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to the amount of damage done. During this time the creature cannot cast spells with verbal com-ponents or use any breath weapons that it it has.
At 20th level
Invincible Conqueror XGE38.

Rough summary of the reasoning
[b]2e Feature [i]5e level and source[/i] 5e Feature[/b] [b]Weapon proficiencies[/b] [i]1st Paladin[/i] The paladin is proficient in all simple and martial weapons [b]Non-weapon proficiencies: Dragonlord, tracking (drag-ons), one dragon language.[/b] [i]3rd. Oath[/i] Dragon foe (a single Fa-voured foe) [b]Recommended Non-weapon proficiencies: Direction sense, riding (land), seaman-ship.[/b] [i]4th Feat[/i] At 4th level most slayers take the Skilled feat to learn skills Animal Handling, Survival, and Vehicles (Water). However, this is optional. [b]Special Armour.[/b] [i]3rd Oath[/i] Shield of Faith as an Oath spell [b]Attempts to acquire an anti-dragon weapon[/b] [i]2nd Class and 17th Oath[/i] Divine Smite and Holy Weapon spell. [b]Fear Immunity[/b] [i]6th and 10th Class[/i] Aura of Protection (aids saves) and Aura of Courage (immunity). [b]Attack bonus against Dragons[/b] [i]3rd Oath[/i] Dragon Slayer’s Vow Chan-nel Divinity option. More limited than usual because also get Dragon foe. [b]Breath Weapon Defence[/b] [i]5th and 9th Oath[/i] Protection form Poison and Protection from Energy as Oath spells. [b]Mount[/b] [i]5th Class and 13th Oath[/i] All paladins can take Find Steed at 5th as a paladin spell dragonslayers have Find Greater Steed as an Oath spell [b]Wing Attack[/b] [i]7th Oath[/i] Aura of Conquest. Prevents retreat. [b]Breath Stun[/b] [i]15th Oath[/i] Breath Stun (new) [b]Great Blow[/b] [i]2nd Class [/i] Great Weapon Fighting Style optional. [b]Special Hindrances (targets dragons and enmity -4)[/b] [i]3rd Oath [/i]Dragon foe and the wording of the oath. Wealth options No Conversion needed -
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Re: Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

Post by zontoxira » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:20 pm

At 15th level, you probably deal 30+ damage, so that makes breath stun quite overpowering, especially without a saving throw. I'd consider something akin to this:
When you make a successful attack against a dragon, you may force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your Charisma [or whatever] modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature is unable to use its breath ability, or attempt to recharge it if the power has already been used, for 1 minute (which is more than enough to disable this special attack for the rest of the combat). The creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, it regains its breath ability or may attempt to recharge it.
This may or may not include spells that require verbal components, however, dragons are innate spellcasters (MM pg 86), meaning they can cast spells without any components, so the above effect wouldn't affect them.

Other than that, the Dragon Slayer looks fine, I'm liking it.
Have a look at my Dark Sun 5e Reconstruction or Planescape 5e Belief System
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Coronoides
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Re: Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

Post by Coronoides » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:19 pm

Nice catch will add a saving throw. I’m pretty sure innate spellcasting only excuses you from material components. Additionally, the default for 5e dragons is to not have spells. The idea of giving them the ability to stifle spells with verbal components was to give them utility when NOT fighting dragons. People whine about the ranger’s favourite foe and terrain making them too specialised, I wanted to avoid that issue.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Coronoides
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Re: Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

Post by Coronoides » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:18 am

Here is a refined version of the Breath Stun.

Breath Stun. When you make a successful attack with a melee weapon against a creature that breathes you may force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw (DC8+your Strength modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save the creature must hold its breath for one minute, in creatures with a negative Constitution modifier suffocation may occur (PHB183). While holding its breath the creature cannot cast spells with verbal components, use any breath weapons that it it has, or attempt to recharge any breath weapons it has. The creature may repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, the effect ends for that creature.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

zontoxira
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Re: Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

Post by zontoxira » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:18 pm

Yea, that's about right. The only thing I see now is, how to fit the oath thematically with the 5e paladin design. Oaths are about broad ideas, guidelines, and sacred tenets.

Devotion is all about order, justice, and virtue.
Ancients preserves life and light in the world.
Vengeance deals with pure, cold justice, by any means.
Crown epitomises ideals of civilisation and the power of sovereignty.
Conquest desires to subjugate and/or crush its enemies (often, forces of chaos).
Redemption hopes to turn foes to the side of light, through the teachings of the Jed-- well, not really.

So far, dragon slayer is missing these broad strokes. Could it be something akin to Conquest, ie crush the dragons and their ilk? Bring justice for all the destruction they have caused to the world (kinda like Vengeance)? Or strive to keep the balance between the dragons of law, chaos, good, and evil?
Have a look at my Dark Sun 5e Reconstruction or Planescape 5e Belief System
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"There are no saints in the animal kingdom. Only breakfast, and dinner." - Lorne Malvo

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Re: Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

Post by Coronoides » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:03 pm

The problem is that the two editions have very different design philosophies. 5e keeps everything generic and broad so any character will be useful anywhere and so players can paint the vanilla rules with any concept they want . While 2e, especially the rules from settings, deliberately designed very specialised roles. This tension between the approaches is evident in this design and might not be resolvable.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Coronoides
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Re: Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

Post by Coronoides » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Draft of the ‘fluff’

Oath of the Dragon Slayer
Swearing the oath of the Dragon Slayer is the beginning of a crusade to slay enemy dragons. In the Council of Wryms setting the dragon slayers are a religious organisation worshiping a perfect dragon god who has tasked them with the utter extermination of all imperfect mortal dragons. In other settings dragon slayers will have different backgrounds and might not see all dragons as enemies; good slayers might even fight alongside metallic dragons. Whatever the world the value of allies is central to oath of the dragon slayer, a value that can bind them to a party even when the group is not actively hunting dragons. Similarly, dragon slayers are driven by their oath to use their abilities no matter the situation and strive for greatness.
Tenets of the Dragon Slayer
Where the oath speaks of dragons it includes any creature of the dragon type. Speak to your DM who might list Half-Dragons, Dragonborn, kobolds or other dragon-ish creatures as affected by the oath.
Fight Dragons. Faced with the choice of fighting a dragon or another foe I will fight the dragon. Where there are multiple dragons I will battle the greatest of them.
No Mercy for Dragons. Lesser foes might be granted mercy but never enemy dragons.
Stronger Together. Dragons are mighty but with allies and preparation we can slay even the greatest of them.
Do not squander your gifts. With their might and magic dragons could rule the world. Instead they fight amongst themselves and hide away in the wilds of the world. Do not be like them, use your gifts and you will achieve greatness.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

zontoxira
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Re: Dragon Slayer Paladin oath (work in progress)

Post by zontoxira » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:48 am

Looks cool +1
And yes, 2e and 5e are quite different in terms of design philosophy; this was one of the main troubles I had to face when converting stuff. And I wouldn't mind if you kept the Oath that specialised, as long as it works in your gaming group. To my knowledge, it fits just about right with the Council of Wyrms setting.
Have a look at my Dark Sun 5e Reconstruction or Planescape 5e Belief System
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Cager extraordinaire, at your service!
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"There are no saints in the animal kingdom. Only breakfast, and dinner." - Lorne Malvo

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