D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

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shesheyan
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D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by shesheyan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:55 am

Interesting article about 5e and the OSR games:
http://ragingowlbear.blogspot.com/2015/ ... -many.html

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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by ghendar » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:43 pm

Interesting indeed but probably not for the reason the blogger would agree with. ;) Ultimately, I find these types of dissertations irrelevant because it really doesn't matter. He plays his game. I play my game. You play your game. Who gives a flying fudge whether it is or is not "old school?"

His point is also based on what he considers OSR, although to his credit he admits that right off. However, my real issue with what he says is that (I feel) people who want to play 5e aren't interested in playing an OSR type game. It's the same story with any new edition. Players want all the options. They don't want to be constrained. Admittedly, I am generalizing but I believe that to be mostly true. If anyone has contradictory evidence, please share it.

For me, if I want to play an old school game, I'll play an old school edition, not 5e in any form. Why should I modify 5e to play like OS when I can just play an OS edition? I can also modify Holmes or 1e, or B/X, or Mentzer, etc to play like newer school versions but why would I want to?
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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by Havard » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:12 pm

ghendar wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:43 pm
Interesting indeed but probably not for the reason the blogger would agree with. ;) Ultimately, I find these types of dissertations irrelevant because it really doesn't matter. He plays his game. I play my game. You play your game. Who gives a flying fudge whether it is or is not "old school?"
Yep :)

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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by Dread Delgath » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:00 pm

I don't need to read the article. I know that I'm an old school DM running a 5e campaign as close to that edge as any could get. Whether or not my "old school" equals your "old school" is another matter entirely! ;)

My campaigns have that B/X vibe, which is exactly what I'm aiming for. My players wouldn't know that, because all but one were all born after 1990. The only player older than me never played any version of D&D/AD&D it until a couple years ago when we first started 5e.

Perhaps my version of "old school" is making the rules serve the campaign, rather than serving the players or the story/plot, or having the story/plot, campaign, or even the players serve the rules. ;)
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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by shesheyan » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:29 am

ghendar wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:43 pm
Interesting indeed but probably not for the reason the blogger would agree with. ;) Ultimately, I find these types of dissertations irrelevant because it really doesn't matter. He plays his game. I play my game. You play your game. Who gives a flying fudge whether it is or is not "old school?"

His point is also based on what he considers OSR, although to his credit he admits that right off. However, my real issue with what he says is that (I feel) people who want to play 5e aren't interested in playing an OSR type game. It's the same story with any new edition. Players want all the options. They don't want to be constrained. Admittedly, I am generalizing but I believe that to be mostly true. If anyone has contradictory evidence, please share it.

For me, if I want to play an old school game, I'll play an old school edition, not 5e in any form. Why should I modify 5e to play like OS when I can just play an OS edition? I can also modify Holmes or 1e, or B/X, or Mentzer, etc to play like newer school versions but why would I want to?
I posted this article in reaction to the other topic that popped up in the 5e section. Seems like some people are working on an OSR+B/X inspired version of 5e.
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=20368&p=219422#p219422

Then later today I discover that Raging Owlbear, the author of the first article, is writing is own version of B/X inspired 5e.
http://ragingowlbear.blogspot.com/2018/ ... chool.html

Honestly, I don't what to make of this trend. Clearly they want a simpler game but don't want to play the real old school rule sets. 5e is already stripped down version of AD&D+3e imho, and you can customize it even further as per instructions in later books... how close to the bone can you go?

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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by Dread Delgath » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:33 am

I look at it this way: If my players wanted me to run a 5e game, they get 5e, and a campaign that I designed. That the game is old school in flavor & feel is neither here nor there, because they wouldn't know the difference because they'd never played an "old school" game before. They like the game, and keep coming back.

If my players wanted to play BX, I'd pull out the original BX set and we'd play. That the game is old school in flavor & feel is neither here nor there, because they wouldn't know the difference between this game and 5e - aside from the differences in rules/mechanics. They would like the game, and would keep coming back. :cool:
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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by shesheyan » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:14 am

Dread Delgath wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:33 am
I look at it this way: If my players wanted me to run a 5e game, they get 5e, and a campaign that I designed. That the game is old school in flavor & feel is neither here nor there, because they wouldn't know the difference because they'd never played an "old school" game before. They like the game, and keep coming back.

If my players wanted to play BX, I'd pull out the original BX set and we'd play. That the game is old school in flavor & feel is neither here nor there, because they wouldn't know the difference between this game and 5e - aside from the differences in rules/mechanics. They would like the game, and would keep coming back. :cool:
Its not the same for all groups. I have players who played Mentzer's basic even though they are in their 30s...

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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by Dread Delgath » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:12 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:14 am
Its not the same for all groups. I have players who played Mentzer's basic even though they are in their 30s...
I'd postulate that it's never the same for all groups - even if all groups had played nothing but Mentzer rules. Or 5e, or BX, or Holmes, or AD&D1e, etc. It never was the same as soon as you have more than one group polled.

I merely put forth the "old school" hypothesis from my p-o-v. ;)
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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by chook » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:27 am

I think that in many ways the idea of having a rule set that does "old school" is missing the point. As the only gamer who actually played anything before what the kids call 3.5 in our local community I get a lot of questions about what the rule for X was in the olden days. Invariably my answer is that you asked the DM who made something up because there were no rules for that. The example I often use is that if you want to play, "by the rules," nobody except a Thief can climb a wall in early versions of the game. This blew their minds and they thought it was silly. The reality is most DM's I played with would just say, "I think you have an X% change so throw me some dice and let's see," or have them make a Dex check (granted, the idea of it being named a Dex check was still not invented).

What I think 5E does well is returns to the loose, free form nature of the game when it was in the early days and newly invented while putting some mechanical codification in place for the concepts that have come of age and are now considered staples thanks to the advancement of the industry as a whole and a market value that is now considered worth investing in.

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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by shesheyan » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:35 pm

chook wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:27 am
I think that in many ways the idea of having a rule set that does "old school" is missing the point. As the only gamer who actually played anything before what the kids call 3.5 in our local community I get a lot of questions about what the rule for X was in the olden days. Invariably my answer is that you asked the DM who made something up because there were no rules for that. The example I often use is that if you want to play, "by the rules," nobody except a Thief can climb a wall in early versions of the game. This blew their minds and they thought it was silly. The reality is most DM's I played with would just say, "I think you have an X% change so throw me some dice and let's see," or have them make a Dex check (granted, the idea of it being named a Dex check was still not invented).

What I think 5E does well is returns to the loose, free form nature of the game when it was in the early days and newly invented while putting some mechanical codification in place for the concepts that have come of age and are now considered staples thanks to the advancement of the industry as a whole and a market value that is now considered worth investing in.
Your post sums up what I think about this «OSR/5e» trend in a much better form that I could ever write. ;)

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Re: D&D 5e Does "Old School" Better Than Many OSR Games

Post by Dread Delgath » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:11 pm

I like Chook's take on this as well. Welcome to the Pizza, Chook! ;)
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