How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

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Dread Delgath
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How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by Dread Delgath » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:29 am

I don't find any one feat is game-breaking, for the reasons Finnarvyn gives above. I have a problem with the ubermench sub-classes that some classes allow after 3rd level.

The barbarian's rage ability that allows resistance to ALL damage except psychic is particularly obnoxious, even more so than any spellcaster's cantrips, and I'd rather see most of these subclass abilities go away than any of the feats.


Admin Edit: Split from Problematic Feats thread.

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Re: Problem Feats in 5E?

Post by pawsplay » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:10 pm

Dread Delgath wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:29 am
I don't find any one feat is game-breaking, for the reasons Finnarvyn gives above. I have a problem with the ubermench sub-classes that some classes allow after 3rd level.

The barbarian's rage ability that allows resistance to ALL damage except psychic is particularly obnoxious, even more so than any spellcaster's cantrips, and I'd rather see most of these subclass abilities go away than any of the feats.
I think the bear barbarian is cute, actually. And don't forget there are a lot of ways to get kicked out of rage.

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Re: Problem Feats in 5E?

Post by Dread Delgath » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:16 pm

pawsplay wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:10 pm
Dread Delgath wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:29 am
I don't find any one feat is game-breaking, for the reasons Finnarvyn gives above. I have a problem with the ubermench sub-classes that some classes allow after 3rd level.

The barbarian's rage ability that allows resistance to ALL damage except psychic is particularly obnoxious, even more so than any spellcaster's cantrips, and I'd rather see most of these subclass abilities go away than any of the feats.
I think the bear barbarian is cute, actually. And don't forget there are a lot of ways to get kicked out of rage.
I only know of a couple of ways: to not attack or be attacked for one round will kick a barbarian out of rage.

Please tell me others and what page(s) these kickers are on! :twisted:
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Re: Problem Feats in 5E?

Post by talsine » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:13 am

Dread Delgath wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:16 pm
pawsplay wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:10 pm
Dread Delgath wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:29 am
I don't find any one feat is game-breaking, for the reasons Finnarvyn gives above. I have a problem with the ubermench sub-classes that some classes allow after 3rd level.

The barbarian's rage ability that allows resistance to ALL damage except psychic is particularly obnoxious, even more so than any spellcaster's cantrips, and I'd rather see most of these subclass abilities go away than any of the feats.
I think the bear barbarian is cute, actually. And don't forget there are a lot of ways to get kicked out of rage.
I only know of a couple of ways: to not attack or be attacked for one round will kick a barbarian out of rage.

Please tell me others and what page(s) these kickers are on! :twisted:
Resistance in rage has never been that impactful on any game I played, i found a Fighters potential 22 AC to be better at mitigating damage than just ignoring half of it for a couple rounds a fight. Also, can't you stun out of rage? It's been well over a year, so without books in front of my I can't say for sure, but i recall a stun or hold dropping them out of rage.

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Re: Problem Feats in 5E?

Post by pawsplay » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:57 am

Dread Delgath wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:16 pm
I only know of a couple of ways: to not attack or be attacked for one round will kick a barbarian out of rage.

Please tell me others and what page(s) these kickers are on! :twisted:
There are a lot of situations where a barbarian can't attack or isn't attacked.

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Re: Problem Feats in 5E?

Post by finarvyn » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:28 pm

Most barbarians I've seen carry extra javelins to throw for rounds where they can't otherwise attack. The attack doesn't need to be a melee one, which seems like a bit of a loophole.
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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by Havard » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:45 pm

What spells/abilities do psychic damage?

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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by Dread Delgath » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:21 am

Some creatures cause psychic damage, and IIRC the Banshee has a deadly psychic damage attack dropping a creature failing its save to zero hit points! (I may be misremembering this, because I don't have the books right now.)
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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by pawsplay » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:21 pm

Bear totem barbarians simply perform at all levels how all barbarians perform at low levels. The majority of damage sources at low level and a good deal of them at higher levels deal weapon damage.

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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by Dread Delgath » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:15 pm

I do remember clearly that one of my barbarian players figured out that his barb can choose any totem power at one of the level ups, specifically 6th & 14th. He has taken a mix of bear, wolf and eagle totem powers, which imo, breaks the spirit of the rules and makes the barbarian OP.

PHB50 "Aspect of the Beast": "...you can choose the same animal you selected at 3rd level or a different one."
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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by talsine » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:21 am

Dread Delgath wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:15 pm
I do remember clearly that one of my barbarian players figured out that his barb can choose any totem power at one of the level ups, specifically 6th & 14th. He has taken a mix of bear, wolf and eagle totem powers, which imo, breaks the spirit of the rules and makes the barbarian OP.

PHB50 "Aspect of the Beast": "...you can choose the same animal you selected at 3rd level or a different one."
How does following the rules break the spirit of the rules? Also, it's extremely rare for animist cultures to revere only a single animal, so it's not even culturally against the spirit of the class

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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by pawsplay » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:31 am

Also the totems are just named that for flavor. Plenty of concepts would combine features to emulate other animals. There are actual examples of that in the SCAG.

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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by Dread Delgath » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:11 am

talsine wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:21 am
Dread Delgath wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:15 pm
I do remember clearly that one of my barbarian players figured out that his barb can choose any totem power at one of the level ups, specifically 6th & 14th. He has taken a mix of bear, wolf and eagle totem powers, which imo, breaks the spirit of the rules and makes the barbarian OP.

PHB50 "Aspect of the Beast": "...you can choose the same animal you selected at 3rd level or a different one."
How does following the rules break the spirit of the rules? Also, it's extremely rare for animist cultures to revere only a single animal, so it's not even culturally against the spirit of the class
Sorry, I meant "breaks the spirit of the game", not the rules.

The rule allowing the barbarian totem warrior to choose any animal totem at 3rd, 6th & 14th levels is contradictory to me when a warrior picks a totem, he should stick to that totem only. Or at least offer a choice of how strict that rule is implemented. Some DMs might want it restricted to one totem animal type because of their campaign setting, (one totem animal per clan/tribe or character) while others don't mind allowing any/all totems for a single character.
A big THANKS! to Giant Space Hamster & Chimpman for the cookies! (Dark Side be damned!) :D

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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by talsine » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:16 am

Dread Delgath wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:11 am
talsine wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:21 am
Dread Delgath wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:15 pm
I do remember clearly that one of my barbarian players figured out that his barb can choose any totem power at one of the level ups, specifically 6th & 14th. He has taken a mix of bear, wolf and eagle totem powers, which imo, breaks the spirit of the rules and makes the barbarian OP.

PHB50 "Aspect of the Beast": "...you can choose the same animal you selected at 3rd level or a different one."
How does following the rules break the spirit of the rules? Also, it's extremely rare for animist cultures to revere only a single animal, so it's not even culturally against the spirit of the class
Sorry, I meant "breaks the spirit of the game", not the rules.

The rule allowing the barbarian totem warrior to choose any animal totem at 3rd, 6th & 14th levels is contradictory to me when a warrior picks a totem, he should stick to that totem only. Or at least offer a choice of how strict that rule is implemented. Some DMs might want it restricted to one totem animal type because of their campaign setting, (one totem animal per clan/tribe or character) while others don't mind allowing any/all totems for a single character.
How is it against the spirit of the game when, as mentioned by pawsplay, WotC themselves suggest mixing and matching them in the Sword Coast Adventures Guide? They specifically give several different examples of how to create a specific type of tribal barbarian by combining several different animals.

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Re: How to Challenge Bear Totem Barbarians (split from: Problem Feats in 5E)

Post by Dread Delgath » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:43 am

Sorry, I can't answer that question now, as this thread is several weeks old. I just can't remember my original thoughts back then, so can we just drop it?
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