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Opinion: Binder class great for lore

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:51 pm
by Seethyr
What has always attracted me to the D&D game has not been the rules - if the lore was good I was all in. I think D&D tapped into the need for a “shared universe” long before Kevin Feige ever thought to do it for movies.

I really hope (but doubt) that WotC gives some official update to the binder class for a number of reasons but here’s one.

The binder class is great for lore.

There are so many beings over the years that have “died” in some remarkable way but we don’t want to see them disappear permanently because they were such a great concept. Vestiges were the perfect explanation for what became of such creatures. I mean tenebrous was once Orcus but was different and became Orcus once again...what happened to Tenebrous? Vestige! Karsus was a god for about a second but then died, should he be a floating island on the Astral? Nope, vestige! There are other characters in lore that could’ve been vestiges too, like perhaps Iyachtu Xvim (Bane’s son/secret persona?). It could’ve been, and I don’t mean this as a pejorative, a dumping ground for every being that didn’t really fit anywhere else specifically.

I mean, I have allowed homebrew binders in my 5e campaign, but they are certainly on my wish list for future official products.

Re: Opinion: Binder class great for lore

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:30 pm
by Havard
I think many of us here at The Piazza feel the same way as you do about rules vs. lore. I know I do! :)

Where can I find out more about the Binder Class? I am not familiar with it and I don't know what vestiges are so I'm afraid I can't be much help...


Re: Opinion: Binder class great for lore

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:13 pm
by Seethyr
It was a class introduced in 3.5 during the later days in a book called the Tome of Magic. The book had two other classes - some generic Shadowcaster thing and a Truenamer which was cool but unbalanced. I loved the book in general and the Binder in particular.

The gist of the class was that you made pacts (pre Warlock and likely part of where the concept of pact magic came from) with entities known as vestiges. Each vestige had a rather amazing back story and associated powers you would gain by making these pacts. It made you the perfect jack of all trades but master of none.

The rules weren’t what I adored, but there were so many cool new “beings” to read about (chupoclops was my personal favorite, I’m making writing some expansions on his background currently). These were the aforementioned vestiges.

I found a rather impressive homebrew update to 5e here. I’d do some things differently but it’s a great bit of work. ... g.html?m=1

Re: Opinion: Binder class great for lore

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:32 am
by willpell
You've hit the nail on the head of why the Binder is my single favorite class in 3E. The abilities are neat, but they exist to serve the lore. Apart from the fact that many of the "Goetia" Vestiges (the ones named after demons from the Lesser Key of Solomon) are kinda phoned-in, the "canonical" vestiges are pretty much perfect, and I love revising the backstory of the Goetia ones to make them fit with the backstory of my campaign world.