Boneguard wrote:Considering this thread is about my baby, I figured, might as well join and answer any questions you may have.
Hi Boneguard. How did you get such a high post count without me noticing you had signed up?
Welcome to The Piazza!
Boneguard wrote:Currently, I'm proceeding to work out my timeline in order to have a clearer idea of what happened. Currently I have 2 Ages (mostly) covered (Creation to about 6 000 PC). The Next Age will involved the Arrival of the Lizardfolk, the gnomes, and the minotaur as well as the founding of a few more nations and The 2nd Ogre War.
Any CC, suggestion, comment, questions are welcome.
One comment I would offer is that in the Spelljammer campaign setting, lizardfolk are obsessed with putting eggs closer to the sun (to make them evolve into more intelligent lizardfolk or somesuch). I'm not sure if it is supposed to be the heat of the sun or the proximity of the sun that mosts interstes the spacefaring lizardfolk, but (like most spacefarers) they think they are superior to groundlings of their own race. If it is the proximity that does the trick, perhaps your lizardfolk could build hatcheries on mountain tops and maybe use greenhouses to concentrate the heat of the sun.
If you did something like that, it might be an excuse to use lizardfolk away from the usual swamp environment, and that could give you a unique way to use them in Hollow Krynn. Perhaps that could lead to some interesting conflicts with them and other races that like mountain tops. There could be dragon raids on lizardfolk "nests". Or perhaps some lizardfolk could make an alliance with a friendly dragon and together they could protect the dragon's eggs, as well as their own eggs.
Or perhaps you could put lizardfolk in swamps, but have them go on an epic march to lay eggs in the "holy mountains" or somesuch. (This could be a bit similar to the way that some fish swim from the sea up a river to spawn.)
Boneguard wrote:My Questions are;
1) Did Arcane magic 'left' in 383 and return in 422 at the same time as Divine Magic when Takhisis stole Krynn and return after the War of Souls?
2) When did Mysticism/Sorcery began to fail? Did they return in 422 at the same time as Divine Magic?
Sadly, this is not the best era for me. As a Spelljammer fan, the "Takhisis Steals the World" plot is a bit of a campaign wrecker for Krynnspace. Dragonhelm came up with some great ideas in is guide to Krynnspace, but for me, it would be logistically much much simpler to just play in the era before all that stuff happens. So if I use Hollow Krynn, I'd be most likely to go with the War of the Lance era.
Do you own a copy of Age of Mortals
? I wasn't intending to buy it, but I saw a copy cheap (although not as cheap as you can get it in the US right now) and decided to buy it just in case I could use it as "one possible future" (like in The Terminator). That should be able to tell you what happened to Arcane and Divine magic. Chapter Two - Magic probably will solve your problems. I actually don't want to read too much of it, as it is going to spoil Dragonlance novels that I've not read yet, but it does confirm that both arcane and divine magic failed.
It then says that Goldmoon
discovered how to perform magic powered from the heart, instead of by the gods (Mysticism) and how she built the Citadel of Light as a place where people could learn this new divine form of spellcasting. I don't know what is supposed to have happened across in Taladas, so I don't know if there is an alternative model to compare this too.
Mysticism was discovered five years after the disappearance of the gods, according to AoM page 53. The Academy of Sorcery was inspired by the Citadel of Light and came later. I have not found the exact date yet. But both these new types of magic seem to have come from discoveries. There is no reason why they could not get discovered faster or slower on another part of the surface of Krynn...or on Krynn's inner surface or any sort of "underdark"-like area that might be on the outer or inner sides of the "gravity plane".
Actually, I see no reason why those types of magic could not have been discovered back after the original cataclysm (when the gods first vanished) or why they could not have been discovered even earlier. One possible reason could be that the gods want to suppress magic that does not come from them, but I don't know enough about Dragonlance to know if that is the case. One thing is for sure. You wouldn't have Goldmoon
or the Shadow Sorcerer
in Hollow Krynn, so you need a different delivery method. And Taladas would be the logical place to see how to do this stuff differently (but still in a DL-ish way).
We do know that dragons kept their magical powers (the Age of Mortals
book says so). So perhaps this inner magic has always been there and people just didn't look at it. Maybe if you didn't have the rebirth of godly magic after the War of the Lance, that would allow you to have Mysticism get discovered in Hollow Krynn earlier. Or maybe you could replace the fake religions of Ansalon with a working mystic-religion shortly after the first Cataclysm.
You have a lot of options here. Each one will drastically change your options, so perhaps it would be better to work out an outline of what you want to achive, so that you can build the history that makes your chosen setting options work the way you want them too.
There are rules on pages 55-56 of Age of Mortals
about "leeching" power from magic items. This process temporarily drains power out of magic items and gives it to a spellcaster for spellcasting. There are three feats for this, so spellcasters would need to learn some sort of method before they could leech power.
I wonder if you could have some sort of different types of leeching for the Hollow Krynn. There were rules back in 2nd Edition about priests, lay-priests and workshippers that gave each lay-priest and priest some sort of value that was a multiple of the value of a single worshipper. Perhaps, if each person had a soul that could be leeched to provide a single point of "potential" (or maybe one point of potential, per class level) a cleric could need to build up a following to be able to "collect" enough potential energy to power up all of their spells. (And if they didn't have a ton-of-followers, maybe they could power up all their spells, but it would take them many days to build up the required potential energy before they were totally topped up. Then they would be totally fine until forced to do spellcasting, when they would be in the same situation of not having instant spell replacements.)
Havard wrote:I didn't know that Mysticism and Sorcery began to fail later on, but I haven't read anything after the War of Souls Trilogy. While I enjoyed the War of Souls books, there was an underlying "lets get back to conform to the D&D rules" undercurrent in the books, which was annoying. This must have continued in later works as well then if they are removing the last bit of unique Age of Mortals era magic.
Dang, and this was the thorniest piece in all this. I know what you mean, that 'levelling effect' is something I noticed too -in every D&D setting actually- and remove some of the uniqueness of some great setting.
Oh well. Maybe someone will be able to answer, if not, I'll wing it.
I know that TSR went with a different type of roleplaying system for Dragonlance (Dragonlance SAGA). I wonder if the Age of Mortals-era changes in the novels were partially down to making the world "SAGA-system compatible" and the later fading of Mysticism and Sorcery, were down to SAGA being abandoned and the world needing to "return to D&D tropes" because SAGA had been "lablled" as "wrong" by someone upstairs. I did hear rumours that at one point, the Dragonlance designers were officially banned from talking to Margaret Weis and Tracey Hickman for advice on how to do stuff. I'm not sure of the exact truth, but I do know that there was some stupid stuff done by people that got in the way of good storytelling (and that some designers did cool stuff under restrictive circumstances). Perhaps this was Hickman and Weis's attempt to give the future of Dragonlance some sort of "Bobby Ewing reboot" that makes the SAGA stuff true, but brings the story around in a circle.
I think that you need to have parallel events in Hollow Krynn, but you don't necessarily need to have parallel results. You could possibly take the same timeline decision points and do totally different things. For example, the Cataclysm is seen as a bad thing, but perhaps Hollow Krynn was locked away from the gods and the hole in the world allowed magic to leak in (or maybe it allowed souls to leak out and get to the afterlife).
The possibilities are endless. Legends of the Twins
would probably be another book worth consulting, as that has a chapter about Alternate Krynns. And Hollow Krynn has got to be an Alternate Krynn with a Cherry on the Top! You can't get more alternative than to take a subsetting of Mystara and give it a DL reboot!
One thing I would ask is: How similar to the them of (Mystara's) Hollow World do you need to get? If there are specific elements from Hollow World that are must-haves (aside from the world-within-a-world theme) then working out a list of what they need to be might help you tweak the DL themes in order to create something that works.