[Marvel's] Black Panther

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[Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by shesheyan » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:01 pm

As anyone seen it yet. Is it any good ? How does it rate with other Marvel movies? 192 millions in the first three days is the 5th best weekend in history.

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Seethyr » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:19 pm

shesheyan wrote:As anyone seen it yet. Is it any good ? How does it rate with other Marvel movies? 192 millions in the first three days is the 5th best weekend in history.
As a Marvel fanboy I should abstain but yeah, it’s awesome. I’d rank it below GotG, Dr. Strange, Iron Man 1, the Captain Americas, the recent Thor and the first Avengers - maybe on par with Ant-man or Spider-Man but above the others.

I don’t think it deserves 97% on Rotten Tomatoes but I’m no critic.

I’ve said it before but I think Katashaka in the Realms deserves a hidden high magic region like Wakanda that keeps itself secret from the world. It would be so cool to either use a material like mithril to replace vibranium or reskin the metal and keep its properties.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Ashtagon » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:11 pm

I'm not a fangirl of Marvel generally (I can normally take or leave superhero films generally). But Black Panther is one of the best re-tellings of Hamlet and more filler text so it's not obvious just from the length I've seen. Well worth the money.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Havard » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:53 pm

I liked it.

It is not a perfect movie, so don't let the hype trick you into going in with too high expectations.

However, it is solid and some elements are excellent. Really great acting and an interesting setting. Many cool characters.

I think a few characters were a bit wasted in the movie.

Really looking forward to seeing Black Panther and Wakanda again in Infinity War! :)

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:54 am

I enjoyed it quite a bit, but it only ranks about middling in my estimation of the Marvel films (Winter Soldier remains my favorite). I am a pretty big Black Panther fan, though, so I admittedly had some pretty high expectations.

The movie takes a lot from my favorite runs on the title (Don McGregor's Jungle Action series, which did for Wakanda what Claremont/Byrne did for Wolverine, as well as Priest's run, which drew on McGregor's mythos heavily, but brought T'Challa to the world stage in ways he never really had been), and draws on runs that I'm not as big a fan of (Hudlin's). For all of that, though, the movie is very much its own thing- it condenses some of the comic characters and storylines in a way to fit the shorter and even more visual medium, and recasts T'Challa in a way that is quite different from most of his comic depictions (here, he is a character becoming the Black Panther of the comics as opposed to already being that character, and- perhaps so as not to cover territory already covered in some of the other MCU characters- he isn't quite the technical genius he is in the comics), but is consistent with the groundwork already laid in Civil War.

It felt like a lot of the character moments got jettisoned in favor of a high-intensity, high-visual (and CG) action movie, and some of the interviews I've read seem to bear that sentiment out. Which is a shame, because those are what I most wanted to see. The end is that a couple of characters feel like afterthoughts, or plot devices, rather than being necessary elements of the final product, and I think the movie suffers from that.

I really did enjoy M'Baku the most, I think- although again I think there are some things they could have done with his character that would have been more interesting, and fitting, given where the movie starts and ends up that directly impact upon the mission statement he has set for his people (and that he lays out for T'Challa in his first appearance on-screen). Visually it was stunning; like Thor: Ragnarok just a few months ago, it is mostly shot in bright settings, so you get a rich, colorful palette that stands in pretty stark contrast to how so many superhero (and heavily CG'd) movies are typically shot. I like this trend that is happening (if only we can also get back to more practical effects and actual stuntwork, as opposed to the digital characters). Plus the location shots are absolutely gorgeous (albeit not all shot in Africa).

Again, I had a pretty high bar for this film, and it didn't deliver all that I hoped it would, but I am absolutely thrilled that it has been getting such a great reception, and that people are taking it so closely to heart. While I think some of the depictions of this as the apparent second coming are a bit overhyped, it is still pretty touching to see and hear some of the personal accounts of people who feel like they have a visual representation of themselves on the big screen. I'm glad this film was made, and will certainly be looking forward to the sequel.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by shesheyan » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:26 am

Thank you for the comments.
I learned to curb my enthusiasm about Marvel movies after seeing Iron Man 3 (Mandarin)... :facepalm:
Black Panther is on the schedule for us Sunday.

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by shesheyan » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:44 pm

Sociologically speaking it is a very important movie for the Hollywood studio system, africains and afro-americans. Sadly, it has flaws that the hype can't erase. I found the predictability of the plot annoying. Some of the CGI effects were not at par with the other movies. Also, the lighting in darker scenes was sometimes inadequate. On the plus side, acting was excellent, outdoors shooting is always a plus, the setting fascinating... traditional clothing that turn into energy shields and armored rhinos! How cool is that!

A 7 on 10 for me. Captain America #1, Ironman #1 and Gardians of the Galaxy #1 remain my top 3 Marvel movies.

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Seethyr » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:17 am

On the plus side, acting was excellent
Michael B Jordan was over the top though. His overacting has ruined a couple of super hero movies for me. Well I guess you can’t technically have ruined Fantastic Four lol, but he overplayed Killmonger.

I’m surprised you didn’t put Thor 3 above this or even Dr Strange.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by shesheyan » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:52 am

Seethyr wrote:
On the plus side, acting was excellent
Michael B Jordan was over the top though. His overacting has ruined a couple of super hero movies for me. Well I guess you can’t technically have ruined Fantastic Four lol, but he overplayed Killmonger.

I’m surprised you didn’t put Thor 3 above this or even Dr Strange.
I guess its personal preference. I didn't see his performance as over the top.

Black Panther is mid-range for me. Strange is top range but not top three. Haven't see Ragnarok yet. Waiting for cable rental. There are so many Marvel movies out now (18!) that its getting difficult for me to rank them other than top, mid and bottom categories.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by night_druid » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:52 pm

In my opinion, it was OK. Not great, about average. Its flaws aren't so glaring as to hack me off (such as recent Star Trek/Star Wars movies do), it just felt...out of place. Wakanda seems better suited as its own world somewhere in the galaxy that the Guardians might run across. Which is more a "flaw" of the comic than the movie. I'd have similar problems of having Savage Land in the MCU. But just a matter of taste, really.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Cthulhudrew » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:48 pm

night_druid wrote:In my opinion, it was OK. Not great, about average. Its flaws aren't so glaring as to hack me off (such as recent Star Trek/Star Wars movies do), it just felt...out of place. Wakanda seems better suited as its own world somewhere in the galaxy that the Guardians might run across. Which is more a "flaw" of the comic than the movie. I'd have similar problems of having Savage Land in the MCU. But just a matter of taste, really.
Wakanda is one of those places that has evolved beyond its origins in the comics. When it first appeared, yes- there were definite high-tech elements to it, but overall it remained a largely traditional nation. Over the years, the degree of just how advanced they are has pretty much skyrocketed, to the point where they are now this massively super-modern city. The movie just took that even further to what it is now, with the holographic technology keeping them hidden from the outside world (I'm not entirely sure the comic version is even quite as advanced as it was in the movie, though I haven't read any BP in a while. I gave Coates' run a few issues, but it just didn't grab my attention enough to continue.)

I definitely see your point, though. I think part of the issue with some of these aspects of the comics is how they are introduced so haphazardly. If the worlds had been designed with these ideas in mind from the start (hidden highly advanced society, hidden prehistoric land, etc.) then you can better structure the world to account for it, and organically integrate them. When you don't, you get the feeling of getting hit by the retcon hammer.

Of course, the Marvel movie universe has some of the same issues- they are kind of making things up on the fly, depending on what movie and characters they want to add into the mix- but they also have the advantage of knowing they have all these disparate properties out there as potential future inclusions, so you'd think they could better make allowances for the possibility of them. If you watch Iron Man, and then check out some of the newer movies, you get that same sort of disassociation feeling, I think. If they'd have known about all these other things at the time, then Iron Man's appearance wouldn't have been nearly as impactful to the world at large in the movies as it was.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by willpell » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:28 pm

It was a pretty good movie, although it had more flaws than the truly spectacular Marvel films do. I'd rank it in the top 10, but not the top 5.

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Havard » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:42 pm

willpell wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:28 pm
It was a pretty good movie, although it had more flaws than the truly spectacular Marvel films do. I'd rank it in the top 10, but not the top 5.
I think I agree with this. Shows us how spoiled Marvel have made us with their MCU movies :)

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Dread Delgath » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:56 am

I'd recommend it, although I thought Chadwick Boseman (T'Challa/Black Panther) had a stronger roll in Captain America: Civil War, albeit with less screen time to do it in.

Watching his character in Civil War made me want to really, really like the Black Panther movie more than I actually did.

Still, I strongly recommend Black Panther. :)
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:10 am

It was enjoyable. Compared to the rest of Earth, the technology of the location is far more advanced. Makes me wonder how much of that is localized or tied into Atlantean history. I've never read the comics and have next to no desire to so I hope the movies go more into the history of the tech.

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Havard » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:35 am

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:10 am
It was enjoyable. Compared to the rest of Earth, the technology of the location is far more advanced. Makes me wonder how much of that is localized or tied into Atlantean history. I've never read the comics and have next to no desire to so I hope the movies go more into the history of the tech.
Good point bringing up the world building that we are shown in this movie. I think this aspect is one of the most interesting parts of the movie, ranging from the technology, to the culture/politics and the mysticism.

I know there was a storyline in the comics where there is a war between Atlantis and Wakanda, but I dont know of any historic ties between the nations? I think the upcoming Aquaman movie from DC/WB means that Marvel will stay away from Atlantis in their movies to avoid comparisons. I know there were problems with the rights to Namor in the past, but I think that might have been resolved. Perhaps there is some way to introduce Namor while keeping him different enough from Aquaman to avoid comparisons? They are very different characters, but casual audiences might not pick up on that unless it is made very clear.


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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:12 pm

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:10 am
It was enjoyable. Compared to the rest of Earth, the technology of the location is far more advanced. Makes me wonder how much of that is localized or tied into Atlantean history. I've never read the comics and have next to no desire to so I hope the movies go more into the history of the tech.
In the comics, historically, Wakanda's advanced technology was a direct result of T'Challa's education in the States as a child, bringing that education back to his homeland, and then using it in conjunction with Wakanda's natural resource (vibranium) to advance its capabilities. It wasn't initially a massive urban civilization, but a blend of tribal culture and technology. Over the years that changed somewhat, culminating in the soft reboot of the title under Reginald Hudlin in the early 2000s, where the history of Wakanda was retconned so that it was always very technologically advanced (and T'Challa was just one of the latest and greatest of its scientific minds, as opposed to being its first and foremost). I kind of stopped reading BP early in the Hudlin era, but my understanding is that Wakanda has also changed in the comics into a more urban city as well (resembling that of the movie).

In any event, Wakanda in the comics doesn't owe any of its technological advancement to the Atlanteans, and I don't see that changing in the movies either, especially as the rights to the Sub-Mariner are still unclear (they may or may not be owned by Fox, and may or may not be part of the DIsney/Fox deal). The movie version of Wakanda owes more to the recent (Hudlin-era and beyond) comics than it does to the Lee/Kirby version as well.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:57 pm

Very interesting.

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by ripvanwormer » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:08 am

The movie rights to Namor were sold to Universal years ago, and while they may have since reverted to Marvel the situation is still legally murky enough that Disney would have to negotiate with Universal before moving forward. There hasn't been another Hulk solo movie because Universal would have to be part of it.

Universal also holds the movie rights to She-Hulk.

I wonder if there's an alternate timeline where the Sub-Mariner became part of Universal's aborted Dark Universe franchise.

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Dread Delgath » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:25 pm

I'd pay Universal ticket prices to see the Hulk, She-Hulk and Namor in a 3-way battle. :D

I'd love to see all characters under one umbrella, but I am generally in favor of different studios having the rights to different characters, but only because since Disney's been in control of the MCU, its been homogenized to the point where everything is just another episode in a 20 year long series.

I want the studios to shake it up and release MCU movies with a variety of flavors.

Re-watched 20th Century Fox's 2005 Fantastic Four the other night, and I STILL like that movie and it's sequel "Rise of the Silver Surfer", and canonically, Namor should be in a Fantastic Four movie.
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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Angel Tarragon » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:51 am

Dread Delgath wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:25 pm
Re-watched 20th Century Fox's 2005 Fantastic Four the other night, and I STILL like that movie and it's sequel "Rise of the Silver Surfer", and canonically, Namor should be in a Fantastic Four movie.
Both of the those FF films are of superior quality compared to the 2015 movie.

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Re: [Marvel's] Black Panther

Post by Havard » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:46 pm

Dread Delgath wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:25 pm
I'd pay Universal ticket prices to see the Hulk, She-Hulk and Namor in a 3-way battle. :D

I'd love to see all characters under one umbrella, but I am generally in favor of different studios having the rights to different characters, but only because since Disney's been in control of the MCU, its been homogenized to the point where everything is just another episode in a 20 year long series.

I want the studios to shake it up and release MCU movies with a variety of flavors.

Re-watched 20th Century Fox's 2005 Fantastic Four the other night, and I STILL like that movie and it's sequel "Rise of the Silver Surfer", and canonically, Namor should be in a Fantastic Four movie.
I see your point, but in the case of Universal, they only have distribution rights, not production rights. So they can never produce movies featuring these characters withough Marvel. They can only prevent Marvel from distributing their own movies with the characters and since Marvel isn't desperate to play ball, that means those movies will never happen.

Sadly the best Fantastic Four movie is still the Roger Corman one. I think the 2005 movie was okay for the time, but it has not aged well. The Silver Surfer character was cool enough, but "Rise" was a disappointing movie with Galactus being reduced to a gas cloud being the worst offense.

I think F4 would be better served as part of the MCU, perhaps especially the Galactic part of the universe along with Guardians and Thor.

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