[X-Men] Dark Phoenix

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[X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by shesheyan » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:27 am

After the horrible X-Men Apocalypse (2016) I'm hoping the next installment will bring back the magic to the series. Days of Future Past is my all time favorite X-Men movie.

Official Trailer: release date June 7, 2019
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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Seethyr » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:41 am

I’m so spoiled by the interconnectivity thing now, that knowing this is the end makes me a little meh about seeing it. I know that’s wrong, but Endgame has ruined me.
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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Havard » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:15 am

I expect this movie to be really bad.

Fox has produced some great X-Men films (X2, Days of Future Past, Logan) and some pretty bad ones.

This will be the last movie in this continuity, not counting New Mutants coming out in August, which may even be worse.

Another point of concern here is that the director is Simon Kinberg who has never directed a movie before.*

One small hope I have is that after the Disney merger there was time for people from Marvel to come in with Disney-money and MCU talent to fix the movie. I don't know if that has been possible given the short time span after the merger became official.

*=Kinberg has worked on tons of movies, but never directed one. He did apparently direct some scenes to complete the movie Fant4stic after Josh Trank was fired from that one, but that doesn't really do anything to convince me. I also suspect he may have covered for other directors of the X-Men series earlier, but again the results are what they are.

I hope I am wrong as I am a big fan of the X-Men and it would be a tragedy to mess up the Dark Phoenix saga twice. :/

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by shesheyan » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:07 pm

Havard wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:15 am
Another point of concern here is that the director is Simon Kinberg who has never directed a movie before.*

-Havard
Let's hope his directorial debut is a success.

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Havard » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:15 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:07 pm
Havard wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:15 am
Another point of concern here is that the director is Simon Kinberg who has never directed a movie before.*

-Havard
Let's hope his directorial debut is a success.
Absolutely! :)

Fingers crossed!

Actually, the fact that he does seem to have had to step into troubled superhero projects as a substitute director in the past might have given him the experienced needed. Also, the actors seem to really like him as opposed to a few of the other directors Fox has used for the series...

I'm hoping this will be a worthy end of this saga before the characters are rebooted into the MCU. :)

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Dread Delgath » Fri May 03, 2019 9:28 pm

I hope that the X-Men franchise is done with controversial directors once and for all. It'd be too much to ask that Hollywood be done with them too, but, that's Hollywood, and that's why it's Hollywood. :(

I must be one of the strange ones that actually liked X-Men Apocalypse, but still not a great fan of Sansa as Jean Grey.

I'm not hopeful for Dark Phoenix, but I don't think it'll be as bad as Wolverine Origins with (not the real) Deadpool was received. :lol:

Still, I'm awfully disappointed that Dark Phoenix & New Mutants were kept under wraps far longer than they deserved to be. This is almost a sure-fire way to kill a franchise off. Both movies should have been released last year, closer to the release of Logan.

I'm more fearful that New Mutants will never see the light of day, especially if the rumor is true that its only being released on Hulu.

[deadpool]WTF is Hulu, and how do I avoid catching this insidious disease?[/deadpool]
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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by willpell » Fri May 03, 2019 10:50 pm

I loved X-Men Apocalypse, and Sophie Turner was one of the reasons why. While I'll always prefer Famke Janssen for the role, that's just because of sheer nostalgic rush-factor; in every objective way, Sophie did a better job of the role.

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sat May 04, 2019 9:47 am

I really enjoyed Apocalypse and I am quite looking forward to seeing Dark Phoenix.
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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Havard » Sat May 04, 2019 11:02 am

Apocalypse had some great scenes. The stuff in Poland with Fassbender/Magneto was probably the highlight even if the story never called for anything like that (since Magneto already had reason to be bitter after DoFP). I loved the intro sequence and the first scenes from ancient egypt. The part where Quicksilver saves everyone was awesome even if we had seen the same thing in DoFP. Wolverine cameo was awesome, yet affected nothing. The rest of the film was pretty meh though. Much of it seemed like a setup for a future installment. At the same time, we should have gotten more time with the new kids. Overall the ending was pretty disappointing. Not the worst X-Men movie for sure, but I feel like there was no real conclusion and that they were just dragging out storylines that never end.

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Dread Delgath » Fri May 10, 2019 8:56 pm

Two of the 'new' characters that stood out for me in Apocalypse were Ororo Munro and Betsy Braddock (Storm and Psyloche), and I wish they'd spent a little more time with them as well. I thought Angel was out of place, considering his canonical history in the comics, and he actually needed to have a falling out with the X-Men team before becoming one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. (But jamming to Metallica in the scene where he accepts Apocalypse's offer was one of the highlights of the movie for me.)

The bad thing about cherry picking the best stories from the comics is that when they are put onto the movie screen out of chronological order, the film makers have to explain or dismiss the inclusion of established characters already presented in the movie time-line vs established characters from the original source material.

What we sometimes end up with is a roster of characters that are out of place, or don't have enough 'screen cred' worth of background built up with movie audiences who came into the franchise late.

Comics nerds know these characters inside & out, but the casual movie goer won't, and the film makers don't help matters much by re-writing characters to fit their movies, this is where things get confusing for nerds & movie goers.

Having said that, I feel very strongly that the X-Men franchise didn't do itself any favors by starting with the inclusion of Wolverine and Rogue right off in the first movie, and veering so far away from canon. However, I don't think that an X-Men movie in 1999 would have made it past the initial go-ahead if they didn't have Wolverine, so... :roll:

I really would have the X-Men start out with some canonical history in the opening credits - much like the Watchmen movie intro did with their 40's-50's heroes - only with the original X-Men line-up of Cyclops, Jean Grey, Iceman & Angel in a montage of heroic comic history - and THEN moving ahead with the movie with those roster changes in place and introducing Wolverine & Rogue*.
;)

*On Rogue: I would still love to see an on-screen depiction of her villainous origins and how she gained all those powers by draining Carol Danvers! :mrgreen:
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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by willpell » Fri May 10, 2019 10:03 pm

Dread Delgath wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:56 pm
Two of the 'new' characters that stood out for me in Apocalypse were Ororo Munro and Betsy Braddock (Storm and Psyloche), and I wish they'd spent a little more time with them as well.
There's no real indication that the Psylocke in this movie was Betsy Braddock at all; she doesn't bear the slightest personality resemblance. I could more easily believe that she was Kwannon with Betsy's Psychic Knife power (but there's no evidence that she got any of the other telepathic abilities that Betsy had - and if I recall correctly, the Psychic Knife was never supposed to be a physical weapon anyway, so the way Olivia Munn uses it to slice cars in half or spike her way down the side of a building completely wouldn't work with comic-book Betsy, unless I'm wrong about how the comics portray the "Knife" working). The movie Psylocke is clearly just some hired killer, and Kwannon was an assassin, so it fits perfectly, except that Kwannon wasn't a mutant. But there was a storyline where a resurrected Kwannon got some of Betsy's memories and/or powers, I forget the details, so I tend to figure that Ms. Munn is simply playing that resurrected Kwannon and she's *impersonating* the real Psylocke, who is being kept unconscious in a tank somewhere (or off in some alternate dimension with Captain Britain, who knows).
I thought Angel was out of place, considering his canonical history in the comics, and he actually needed to have a falling out with the X-Men team before becoming one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. (But jamming to Metallica in the scene where he accepts Apocalypse's offer was one of the highlights of the movie for me.)
This version of Angel was clearly a totally unrelated character. I mean for crying out loud, pre-Apocalypse he had *claws* on his wings; Warren Worthington never had that. And again, there's no evidence that he was named Warren Worthington in the movie; he was just some random guy who'd been a pit fighter in Germany. These two characters were just awkwardly shoehorned into the movie without any real thought to how they reflected their comic book versions, and I'm okay with that - because the movie did do a *perfect* job of portraying the canonical Nightcrawler and Professor X (and, for the very brief time we see her, Jubilee), plus a very good approximation of Jean Gray and Cyclops and Storm and Magneto, and completely-unlike-the-canon-but-excellent versions of Quicksilver and Mystique (both of which, along with a fairly anemic take on Beast and the slightly divergent versions of Magneto and Havok, are leftovers from previous movies, so I can't fault this one for them being a bit "off").
The bad thing about cherry picking the best stories from the comics is that when they are put onto the movie screen out of chronological order, the film makers have to explain or dismiss the inclusion of established characters already presented in the movie time-line vs established characters from the original source material.
Except they really don't *have* to do that, and I wish they'd stop trying. A movie really only has to be consistent with itself, and maybe with a few immediate predecessors. Even the MCU is getting to the point where it would be better advised to contradict itself (and from what I understand, the latest movie sets up a very good explanation for how that can happen).
*On Rogue: I would still love to see an on-screen depiction of her villainous origins and how she gained all those powers by draining Carol Danvers! :mrgreen:
As an avid hater of Captain Marvels, I'm sincerely hoping this happens. I don't plan to watch any future MCU movies until and unless I hear this has happened, although that plan is always subject to change (I had indeed intended to include Endgame in this boycott, and all it took was one Looper video to persuade me otherwise).

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Dread Delgath » Fri May 10, 2019 10:59 pm

I disagree about Psylocke - that was indeed Betsy Braddock. The movie just assumes her as a sideline character and did no actual character backstory or development. At least she got away at the end, so I hope to see Olivia reprise her role as Psylocke in a future X-Men movie. :D

As for the Angel character - yeah. I could assume the same thing you do, and that character's inclusion in the movie works. Better, actually than assuming he was Warren Worthington III. At least X-Men III: Last Stand assumes Warren's actual history in the Marvel universe. :roll:

Before the Marvel universe comics reboot in 2015 or so, Captain Marvel was a well-written and decent character.

When Marvel did the Civil War II event, CM was suddenly written as a horrible despot. I really hope the MCU avoids this abhorrent period of Marvel comics history, and [avoiding spoilers] so far, things are working out so that particular clash of characters cannot happen in the MCU. (Unless they do another "time/multiverse" thingie and introduce alternative characters to ones that are no longer in the MCU and screw it up again...)

Regarding Captain Marvel's origin story in the MCU? I felt they could have stuck closer to canon and have told a compelling story.
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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by NPCDave » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:10 pm

I haven't gone to see the movie, but based on the reviews and a new report out that Disney deliberately butchered the film so it would fail, I won't be seeing it.

It is disappointing to see Disney's disrespectful actions to their audience, especially after the last ten years of Marvel movie making. I am no longer looking forward to Marvel's Phase 4 and will be much more wary before watching any Marvel Disney film in the future. I still plan to see Spiderman next month to round out Phase 3, but I suspect the impressive achievement of the last two Avengers movies will be followed by a sad decline.

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Kythkyn » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:28 pm

NPCDave wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:10 pm
new report out that Disney deliberately butchered the film so it would fail
I don't think this is true. Source?
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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Havard » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:37 pm

NPCDave wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:10 pm
I haven't gone to see the movie, but based on the reviews and a new report out that Disney deliberately butchered the film so it would fail, I won't be seeing it.

It is disappointing to see Disney's disrespectful actions to their audience, especially after the last ten years of Marvel movie making. I am no longer looking forward to Marvel's Phase 4 and will be much more wary before watching any Marvel Disney film in the future. I still plan to see Spiderman next month to round out Phase 3, but I suspect the impressive achievement of the last two Avengers movies will be followed by a sad decline.

That sounds highly conspiratory to me. I know the third act underwent extensive reshoots, but I am assuming the main reason for these reshoots is that the original version of the movie was pretty bad. Not surprising when we are talking about a first time director. The second act apparently shows clear signs that Kinberg was too inexperienced to be given such a high budget movie as his first try at directing a movie. I do know that Disney wanted fox to remove any reference to skrulls which may have affected how the third act and Jessica Chastains character negatively. I haven't seen the movie yet. I do want to give it a chance, but not sure which of my friends I should drag there given that most of them aren't really X-Men fans.

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by NPCDave » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:49 pm

https://cosmicbook.news/disney-fox-sabo ... rie-larson

This is the secondary source with a summary and links to primary sources.

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Kythkyn » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:11 pm

"DISNEY/FOX 'SABOTAGES' DARK PHOENIX FOR CAPTAIN MARVEL AND BRIE LARSON"

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and just dismiss this out of hand
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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Havard » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:12 pm

Kythkyn wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:11 pm
"DISNEY/FOX 'SABOTAGES' DARK PHOENIX FOR CAPTAIN MARVEL AND BRIE LARSON"

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and just dismiss this out of hand
I tend to agree. Even without this problematic heading, cosmicbook.news is not a particularly reliable source in my experience. I didn't check the site for the primary sources, but as mentioned in my speculation above, some of the factors here (Disputes over Skrulls, reshooting the third act), may be true, but that doesnt mean the intention was to sabotage the movie. If Disney wanted to loose money on this property, they could have skipped the reshoots and simply not placed the film in theaters. I think it is much more likely that the third act was reshot because it was really bad. From what I've heard the first act is good, but the second act is very weak and the third act is actually so good it is likely that Kinberg was not involved. Disney owns Fox now. Their main interest is likely to make sure these movies make as much money as possible.

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by willpell » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:05 pm

I will try to see this in about 3 months when it hits my local cheap theaters, assuming they put it on at a time that works for me. Otherwise, I'll have to wait even longer to get it from the library. Sigh....

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Re: [X-Men] Dark Phoenix

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:39 pm

Well, I've already watched it, and I'm going to say that, while the movie has its moments, it's not good. I guess all the movies of the Phoenix saga are doomed to be bad... :(

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