published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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genghisdon
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published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by genghisdon »

I'm trying to find all the published adventures set in Nuria-Natal, so any help is welcome. Any that aren't specific, but suit/fit are fine to point out too!

Per-Bastet
Cat & Mouse (L1)
Grimalkin (L3-5)
3 little pigs parts 1, 2 & 3 (for L3 characters)
the scorpion's shadow (L1)
Tomb of Tiberesh (L2)

Ghatazi Salt Pits
the infernal salt pits (L6-7)

Siwal
Last Gasp (L6)

? Black Lotus Mesa
The Black Sarcophagus (L6)

Per-Xor
Eldritch Lairs: under the devil's thumb

north west/all
Eldritch Lairs: Palace of the Wind Lords (L7)

under
Eldritch Lairs: the undying tournament (L8)

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by Tim Baker »

Here are some others that are either explicitly set in the northern portion of the Southlands, or have a similar flavor.

Raganni’s Redoubt (12 Peculiar Towers)
An Enigma Lost in a Maze
Monument of the Thunderer (Book of Lairs)
Castle of Sand (Book of Lairs)
Tomb of the Scorpion Prince (Book of Lairs)
The Mhalmet Heist (Midgard Sagas)
Travails Along the Tamasheq (Out of the Frying Pan – Kobold Press Website)
The Claret Wellspring (Prepared!)
In Its Horrid Wake (Prepared!)
Assault of the Steel Horde (Prepared! 2)
Neither by Sail, Nor by Oar (Prepared! 2)

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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Thanks Tim!

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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Sure thing. I'm always happy to talk about Midgard. :D

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:18 am
Sure thing. I'm always happy to talk about Midgard. :D
That being the case, perhaps you can help further. I'm struggling to find a few races needed for the area for 5e.

Catfolk (presumably neither Rakasta or Tabaxi)?

There are pretty required for Per-Bastet, and in intro modules, but I have no idea where to find them in monster books, and they aren't in any of the 5e hero/character books; not unlikely heroes, southlands heroes, midguard heroes, midguard heroes handbook, nor the tome of beasts ...help?

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by Tim Baker »

genghisdon wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:15 am
Catfolk (presumably neither Rakasta or Tabaxi)?

There are pretty required for Per-Bastet, and in intro modules, but I have no idea where to find them in monster books, and they aren't in any of the 5e hero/character books; not unlikely heroes, southlands heroes, midguard heroes, midguard heroes handbook, nor the tome of beasts ...help?
Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I've been out of town.

There have been a couple discussions on the Facebook group about this. Both Ben McFarland and Dan Dillon have said that Tabaxi mechanics are intended to be used for Midgard's catfolk. Some people aren't happy with this answer, since Nkosi are also shapechangers, and the Tabaxi aren't. To which the response is generally to use the werelion race from Southlands Heroes, but remove the humanoid form. So there are a couple possible options, but neither one is a perfect match for the lore. I suspect we'll have to wait until a rumored 5e version of Southlands is released.

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by genghisdon »

Tim Baker wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 am
genghisdon wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:15 am
Catfolk (presumably neither Rakasta or Tabaxi)?

They are pretty much required for Per-Bastet, and in intro modules, but I have no idea where to find them in monster books, and they aren't in any of the 5e hero/character books; not unlikely heroes, southlands heroes, midguard heroes, midguard heroes handbook, nor the tome of beasts ...help?
Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I've been out of town.

There have been a couple discussions on the Facebook group about this. Both Ben McFarland and Dan Dillon have said that Tabaxi mechanics are intended to be used for Midgard's catfolk. Some people aren't happy with this answer, since Nkosi are also shapechangers, and the Tabaxi aren't. To which the response is generally to use the werelion race from Southlands Heroes, but remove the humanoid form. So there are a couple possible options, but neither one is a perfect match for the lore. I suspect we'll have to wait until a rumored 5e version of Southlands is released.
Thanks Tim, and no worries on the delay. Stay safe & well (probably avoid extra travel) going forward, for a while!

Tabaxi would seem to fit the mechanical needs, even more so to my limited/fresh eyed look at it. They would suit Per-Bastet well.
The werelions/Nkosi ought be another thing, and have their own place.
I'm adding dreamland cats from Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos as well, so I'm not a fanatical purist, I make things my own, but I do try hard to "get" the presented materials; and there was much work & imagination in making these!

I did indeed have to look back to pathfinder era stuff to fill in much; even the more copy/paste 5e versions are missing lots of stuff. I couldn't find the cat-folk in the pathfinder books either, though, and thought they might have some race name, like Nkosi & the were-lions. Doesn't seem to be the case; they probably were hold overs from back in 3e D&D's savage species, if I had to guess.

I was pleased to see Tabaxi return in 5e, although their favoured class/mechanics seem a bit off, but I've long missed the Rakasta...perhaps they were axed for good due the name similarity with rakshasa? Anyway, those musing have nought to do with this topic. Still, Isle of dread was probably my 2nd TSR era module or 3rd, back in the early 80's
Image
Image
image is cropped there, but that is the one I'm looking for from the first version of X1

I am curious how my players will react to so "catty" a place.

Thanks again, Tim.

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by Tim Baker »

genghisdon wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:11 pm
Stay safe & well (probably avoid extra travel) going forward, for a while!
When I started my trip, things were much calmer than they became during my travels. I'm definitely planning to stay in my home and only leave out of necessity (e.g., more food for my family) for the foreseeable future.
genghisdon wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:11 pm
I'm adding dreamland cats from Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos as well, so I'm not a fanatical purist, I make things my own, but I do try hard to "get" the presented materials; and there was much work & imagination in making these!
I'm not familiar with these. How do they differ from other anthropomorphic feline PC races? What niche do you see them filling in a Midgard campaign? What part of the world would they primarily be from?
genghisdon wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:11 pm
I did indeed have to look back to pathfinder era stuff to fill in much; even the more copy/paste 5e versions are missing lots of stuff. I couldn't find the cat-folk in the pathfinder books either, though, and thought they might have some race name, like Nkosi & the were-lions. Doesn't seem to be the case; they probably were hold overs from back in 3e D&D's savage species, if I had to guess.
Catfolk are found on page 90 of the Pathfinder Advanced Race Guide, in case you want to take a look and compare to 5e Tabaxi.
genghisdon wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:11 pm
I was pleased to see Tabaxi return in 5e, although their favoured class/mechanics seem a bit off, but I've long missed the Rakasta...perhaps they were axed for good due the name similarity with rakshasa? Anyway, those musing have nought to do with this topic. Still, Isle of dread was probably my 2nd TSR era module or 3rd, back in the early 80's
I wasn't familiar with Tabaxi until D&D 5e. I don't think they were in 4e (which is the edition I'm most familiar with), and don't remember them from my more limited exposure to AD&D (although I realize they were in the Fiend Folio – they just didn't make a big enough impression that I remembered they were in there until I looked it up later). Where do you think the 5e designers missed with their mechanics?

I didn't play/run anything in Mystara, so I only learned about Rakasta when I started interacting on The Piazza. What do you like about them that's different from Tabaxi?

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by genghisdon »

Heh, I was doing that only, and somehow managed to get sick from the grocery stores, hand sanitizer and all. Not sure what with exactly, but at this point in time, it's obvious I need to stay put in case it is covid-19.

You are familiar with dreamland cats, or at least some kinds of them. Felis catus, the domestic cat. Very unusual characters, but ones we are all familiar with. Sentient in the dreamlands, able to choose to remain sentient or not in the waking world, and able to pass to the dreamland the usual way (sleep/dream) or physically. A slightly limited scope race, but a fun conceit, especially for a dreamlands game. The sorcerous path "familiar" option is delightful.

There are also cats from Mars, Saturn & Uranus, along with the various mythos & dreamlands monsters in PC format, although I'm personally less interested in seeing those as PC's (to start a given campaign at least); Peterson's book could be taken as complimentary or competitive with similar work from Kobold Press. Obviously for me, I enjoy both & even other publishers when it comes to Yog-Sothery, having 3-4 versions of deep ones, etc, just gives me more options to easily use. Still, for you, or anyone that likes the genre for 5e, I recommend Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos.

I've borrowed Cats of Ulthar (CC) & Bastet Temple Cat(TOB) for use in COC/Lovecraft-ian games, so it's simply turn-about to pull mythos monsters from PF, KP, etc.

As to where, niche, difference? LOL, they are CATS. They are pretty much all over, wherever humans are. I'd not bother playing the dreamlands cat angle up outside of Per-Bastet or greater Nuria-Natal, unless there was a dreamlands connection, though. Technically, they are basically everywhere, in plain sight. They are all over the place in Per-Bastet, and more likely to be considered magical & sentient there, and of course, there are the magical portal/alleys which are quite reminiscent of their dream walk ability.

Tabaxi? honestly, while I knew them since the early 80's with the 1e fiend folio, and know them from 2e also (albeit focused on in a setting I didn't use, but the evil lord was a neat addition), I never used them too much. The 5e stats and attitude really scream more like a cat, than they do a jaguar or leopard, or 2e, version, or a tiger (or maybe house-cat) of 1e. I have no complaints, simply an expectation of strength & more a ranger/barbarian/rogue type slant to a bard/rogue one. It's probably more just a conceit of 5e at play, where high dex characters will dump strength. They were isolationist &/or xenophobic back in 1e; they are completely opposite now in 5e. The 5e version, however, is PERFECT for the city of Per-Bastet!

Mystara wasn't Mystara yet in the early 80's, it was simply the generic campaign world for the basic/expert D&D game, "The Known World", so I do not even attach them to Mystara, even if TSR later would. What's different? heh, for starters, they are first! The nostalgia is strong with this one! While AD&D followed B/X within a month for 11 year old me, keep on the borderlands & especially isle of dread, along with AD&D's the secret of bone hill, dwellers of the forbidden City , & the rest of the early 80's modules would be formative for me, in terms of the game in all ways, including artwork. For me, a term like "cat folk" (and honestly, it was "cat-man" or "cat woman" back then) would just be a generic sticker to apply as description to a race like the rakasta.

PC Dwarf: "what's all the commotion about?"
Villager: "We were raided by rakasta!"
PC dwarf fighter:"who?"
Villager:"cat people, and their sabre-toothed tigers!"

So it's more a nostalgia thing, for me, certainly. A first exposure, a time of firing up the imagination. Early through mid 80's TSR is my introduction to gaming.

Differences?

While it's somewhat silly to assume various beasts could ever be mounts, it's all the rage still in gaming (or even more than back then, maybe!), so the saber tooth riding connection is no weakness. Rakasta seemed civilized & technologically adept, albeit in an alien, nomadic (north African, middle eastern or Asian) way, whereas Tabaxi were savages, or stone age, in nature. I never accepted the Tabaxi art in 1e either, they are described as jungle tiger-people (or so i made them in my head/games), albeit they do have the cat-man appellation. Rakasta are metal workers, making swords & the like, but in a fun, alien culture twist, make "war claws" of steel, presumably to "keep up" with contemporary armored combat in battle. LOL, certainly D&D monsters do just fine with tooth & claw, but a little nod like that always struck me as a nice touch. Plains/Desert vs Jungle. In the era of "just take the stats & slap a name on it" there isn't all that much. I'm not much of a fan of that style, though.
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:54 am
Catfolk are found on page 90 of the Pathfinder Advanced Race Guide, in case you want to take a look and compare to 5e Tabaxi.
Thanks! Too many versions of the same books across too many editions to find stuff has become a problem, let alone simply not having them (it's a tough sell to get the same book "updated"). I'll find it now, though, so thanks again.

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by Tim Baker »

genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Heh, I was doing that only, and somehow managed to get sick from the grocery stores, hand sanitizer and all. Not sure what with exactly, but at this point in time, it's obvious I need to stay put in case it is covid-19.
I'm sorry to hear that. Please take care of yourself and stay safe. I hope it turns out to be something that isn't serious and you recover quickly!
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
You are familiar with dreamland cats, or at least some kinds of them. Felis catus, the domestic cat. Very unusual characters, but ones we are all familiar with. Sentient in the dreamlands, able to choose to remain sentient or not in the waking world, and able to pass to the dreamland the usual way (sleep/dream) or physically. A slightly limited scope race, but a fun conceit, especially for a dreamlands game. The sorcerous path "familiar" option is delightful.
Interesting, I hadn't heard that part of the mythos. So you're saying a dreamland cat would make a good familiar? I'm not sure what a "sorcerous path familiar" is, as opposed to, say, a wizard's familiar. Are they different?
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
There are also cats from Mars, Saturn & Uranus, along with the various mythos & dreamlands monsters in PC format, although I'm personally less interested in seeing those as PC's (to start a given campaign at least);
I'm curious to know how something that sounds similar to an awakened house cat could serve as a PC in a group that includes ravenfolk and dwarves and humans. How do they handle magic items? Armor? Weapons? Somatic spell components?
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Peterson's book could be taken as complimentary or competitive with similar work from Kobold Press. Obviously for me, I enjoy both & even other publishers when it comes to Yog-Sothery, having 3-4 versions of deep ones, etc, just gives me more options to easily use. Still, for you, or anyone that likes the genre for 5e, I recommend Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos.

I've borrowed Cats of Ulthar (CC) & Bastet Temple Cat(TOB) for use in COC/Lovecraft-ian games, so it's simply turn-about to pull mythos monsters from PF, KP, etc.
I'm totally on board with this. I draw from materials all over the place for my games. Even for PC races, if there are 4 different versions of the PC pixie race for 13th Age (an actual example), I ask my player what she envisioned for her character, and then select the most appropriate one.
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
As to where, niche, difference? LOL, they are CATS. They are pretty much all over, wherever humans are. I'd not bother playing the dreamlands cat angle up outside of Per-Bastet or greater Nuria-Natal, unless there was a dreamlands connection, though. Technically, they are basically everywhere, in plain sight. They are all over the place in Per-Bastet, and more likely to be considered magical & sentient there, and of course, there are the magical portal/alleys which are quite reminiscent of their dream walk ability.
That makes sense, now that I understand that they aren't an anthropomorphic feline race.
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Tabaxi? honestly, while I knew them since the early 80's with the 1e fiend folio, and know them from 2e also (albeit focused on in a setting I didn't use, but the evil lord was a neat addition), I never used them too much. The 5e stats and attitude really scream more like a cat, than they do a jaguar or leopard, or 2e, version, or a tiger (or maybe house-cat) of 1e. I have no complaints, simply an expectation of strength & more a ranger/barbarian/rogue type slant to a bard/rogue one. It's probably more just a conceit of 5e at play, where high dex characters will dump strength. They were isolationist &/or xenophobic back in 1e; they are completely opposite now in 5e. The 5e version, however, is PERFECT for the city of Per-Bastet!
Thanks for explaining that. I wasn't familiar enough with them to understand the transition from "great cat" to "domestic cat" qualities. I agree that they sound like a better fit for Per-Bastet.
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Mystara wasn't Mystara yet in the early 80's, it was simply the generic campaign world for the basic/expert D&D game, "The Known World", so I do not even attach them to Mystara, even if TSR later would. What's different? heh, for starters, they are first! The nostalgia is strong with this one! While AD&D followed B/X within a month for 11 year old me, keep on the borderlands & especially isle of dread, along with AD&D's the secret of bone hill, dwellers of the forbidden City , & the rest of the early 80's modules would be formative for me, in terms of the game in all ways, including artwork. For me, a term like "cat folk" (and honestly, it was "cat-man" or "cat woman" back then) would just be a generic sticker to apply as description to a race like the rakasta.
That makes sense. Nostalgia is a powerful force!
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
While it's somewhat silly to assume various beasts could ever be mounts, it's all the rage still in gaming (or even more than back then, maybe!), so the saber tooth riding connection is no weakness. Rakasta seemed civilized & technologically adept, albeit in an alien, nomadic (north African, middle eastern or Asian) way, whereas Tabaxi were savages, or stone age, in nature. I never accepted the Tabaxi art in 1e either, they are described as jungle tiger-people (or so i made them in my head/games), albeit they do have the cat-man appellation. Rakasta are metal workers, making swords & the like, but in a fun, alien culture twist, make "war claws" of steel, presumably to "keep up" with contemporary armored combat in battle. LOL, certainly D&D monsters do just fine with tooth & claw, but a little nod like that always struck me as a nice touch.
That's another interesting thing that you've taught me. Thanks for sharing!
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:54 am
Catfolk are found on page 90 of the Pathfinder Advanced Race Guide, in case you want to take a look and compare to 5e Tabaxi.
Thanks! Too many versions of the same books across too many editions to find stuff has become a problem, let alone simply not having them (it's a tough sell to get the same book "updated"). I'll find it now, though, so thanks again.
I'm glad I could help. :-)

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by genghisdon »

Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Heh, I was doing that only, and somehow managed to get sick from the grocery stores, hand sanitizer and all. Not sure what with exactly, but at this point in time, it's obvious I need to stay put in case it is covid-19.
I'm sorry to hear that. Please take care of yourself and stay safe. I hope it turns out to be something that isn't serious and you recover quickly!
I think I am...and now it appears it's the same bug I had about 2 months prior; same deal, a bit faster still in pace. Normally I only get sick zero to one time a year, so 2 so far is probably a personal record already. I'm not worried at all, just isolating to do my part.
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
You are familiar with dreamland cats, or at least some kinds of them. Felis catus, the domestic cat. Very unusual characters, but ones we are all familiar with. Sentient in the dreamlands, able to choose to remain sentient or not in the waking world, and able to pass to the dreamland the usual way (sleep/dream) or physically. A slightly limited scope race, but a fun conceit, especially for a dreamlands game. The sorcerous path "familiar" option is delightful.
Interesting, I hadn't heard that part of the mythos. So you're saying a dreamland cat would make a good familiar? I'm not sure what a "sorcerous path familiar" is, as opposed to, say, a wizard's familiar. Are they different?
Oh yes. They are a PC race. What I mentioned was only a specific CLASS detail: "Familiar (Sorcerous Origin)...comparable to Draconic Bloodline or Wild Magic (Sorcerous Origins). Like your house cat doesn't obey like a dog, neither does the familiar. It's a separate PC. The cat probably would regard the human (or elf, etc) as their familiar, but that's more my take. The game sets them up as equal partners. So that cat PC/NPC would be a sorcerer, but it's unique abilities relate to the bond (&/or cat magic), rather than dragons or wild magic, for the base examples. EX: can cast using material components the "master" carries, cast their spells from the "master" rather than themselves, and so on.
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
There are also cats from Mars, Saturn & Uranus, along with the various mythos & dreamlands monsters in PC format, although I'm personally less interested in seeing those as PC's (to start a given campaign at least);
I'm curious to know how something that sounds similar to an awakened house cat could serve as a PC in a group that includes ravenfolk and dwarves and humans. How do they handle magic items? Armor? Weapons? Somatic spell components?
Well, they aren't for everyone/all games, but they are set up surprisingly well. Obviously, they are very much slanted towards casting classes, and rogues. I'll suggest checking it out, or I can quote from the book, but as with all "new" school product, it's fairly verbose. Perhaps I'll post whatever I can think of as fair use in a separate post. I'd guess it is not that different than an awakened cat...although it is presented as "awaken" was never required...
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Peterson's book could be taken as complimentary or competitive with similar work from Kobold Press. Obviously for me, I enjoy both & even other publishers when it comes to Yog-Sothery, having 3-4 versions of deep ones, etc, just gives me more options to easily use. Still, for you, or anyone that likes the genre for 5e, I recommend Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos.

I've borrowed Cats of Ulthar (CC) & Bastet Temple Cat(TOB) for use in COC/Lovecraft-ian games, so it's simply turn-about to pull mythos monsters from PF, KP, etc.
I'm totally on board with this. I draw from materials all over the place for my games. Even for PC races, if there are 4 different versions of the PC pixie race for 13th Age (an actual example), I ask my player what she envisioned for her character, and then select the most appropriate one.
I guessed you were, which is why I recommend Peterson's book for anyone using a decent amount of Lovecraftian elements. Cats as PCs wholly optional, the same as ghouls, et all. It's great even if only run with humans (et all) & for the lore, monsters, spells, "sub-classes", etc.
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
As to where, niche, difference? LOL, they are CATS. They are pretty much all over, wherever humans are. I'd not bother playing the dreamlands cat angle up outside of Per-Bastet or greater Nuria-Natal, unless there was a dreamlands connection, though. Technically, they are basically everywhere, in plain sight. They are all over the place in Per-Bastet, and more likely to be considered magical & sentient there, and of course, there are the magical portal/alleys which are quite reminiscent of their dream walk ability.
That makes sense, now that I understand that they aren't an anthropomorphic feline race.
Yep, no one could miss it...cats! Everyone knows them, and in a magic city of cats...well...
(but one could also have strange "cat" types from other planets visiting Per-Bastet, so one could use the other types...)
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Tabaxi? honestly, while I knew them since the early 80's with the 1e fiend folio, and know them from 2e also (albeit focused on in a setting I didn't use, but the evil lord was a neat addition), I never used them too much. The 5e stats and attitude really scream more like a cat, than they do a jaguar or leopard, or 2e, version, or a tiger (or maybe house-cat) of 1e. I have no complaints, simply an expectation of strength & more a ranger/barbarian/rogue type slant to a bard/rogue one. It's probably more just a conceit of 5e at play, where high dex characters will dump strength. They were isolationist &/or xenophobic back in 1e; they are completely opposite now in 5e. The 5e version, however, is PERFECT for the city of Per-Bastet!
Thanks for explaining that. I wasn't familiar enough with them to understand the transition from "great cat" to "domestic cat" qualities. I agree that they sound like a better fit for Per-Bastet.
Well, some of that was MY take, the first artwork from 1e looked domestic cat-like (perhaps). The 2e art was clearly a humanoid leopard or jaguar. But they never SOUNDED like domestic cats, and were the opposite of standard PC material early on. 5e Tabaxi seem well suited indeed for the city.
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:57 pm
While it's somewhat silly to assume various beasts could ever be mounts, it's all the rage still in gaming (or even more than back then, maybe!), so the saber tooth riding connection is no weakness. Rakasta seemed civilized & technologically adept, albeit in an alien, nomadic (north African, middle eastern or Asian) way, whereas Tabaxi were savages, or stone age, in nature. I never accepted the Tabaxi art in 1e either, they are described as jungle tiger-people (or so i made them in my head/games), albeit they do have the cat-man appellation. Rakasta are metal workers, making swords & the like, but in a fun, alien culture twist, make "war claws" of steel, presumably to "keep up" with contemporary armored combat in battle. LOL, certainly D&D monsters do just fine with tooth & claw, but a little nod like that always struck me as a nice touch.
That's another interesting thing that you've taught me. Thanks for sharing!
Glad to talk about it! It's deep cut D&D nerd talk that's way out of date by now :D

Best,
Don

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by genghisdon »

Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
Interesting, I hadn't heard that part of the mythos. So you're saying a dreamland cat would make a good familiar? I'm not sure what a "sorcerous path familiar" is, as opposed to, say, a wizard's familiar. Are they different?

I'm curious to know how something that sounds similar to an awakened house cat could serve as a PC in a group that includes ravenfolk and dwarves and humans. How do they handle magic items? Armor? Weapons? Somatic spell components?

I posted much of the dreamlands cat here:
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=23746&p=247261#p247261

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:43 pm
They are a PC race. What I mentioned was only a specific CLASS detail: "Familiar (Sorcerous Origin)...comparable to Draconic Bloodline or Wild Magic (Sorcerous Origins). Like your house cat doesn't obey like a dog, neither does the familiar. It's a separate PC. The cat probably would regard the human (or elf, etc) as their familiar, but that's more my take. The game sets them up as equal partners. So that cat PC/NPC would be a sorcerer, but it's unique abilities relate to the bond (&/or cat magic), rather than dragons or wild magic, for the base examples. EX: can cast using material components the "master" carries, cast their spells from the "master" rather than themselves, and so on.
I see. That's very interesting. I don't think I've heard this take on a PC before.
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:56 pm
they aren't for everyone/all games, but they are set up surprisingly well. Obviously, they are very much slanted towards casting classes, and rogues. I'll suggest checking it out, or I can quote from the book, but as with all "new" school product, it's fairly verbose. Perhaps I'll post whatever I can think of as fair use in a separate post. I'd guess it is not that different than an awakened cat...although it is presented as "awaken" was never required...
Yeah, it's hard to talk about mechanics when one party doesn't have access to the content. Perhaps you can keep it high level. You mentioned the race working well with rogues and spellcasters – does that mean armor is largely a moot point? What about weapons for rogues?
genghisdon wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:43 pm
I guessed you were, which is why I recommend Peterson's book for anyone using a decent amount of Lovecraftian elements. Cats as PCs wholly optional, the same as ghouls, et all. It's great even if only run with humans (et all) & for the lore, monsters, spells, "sub-classes", etc.
I don't run 5th Edition, so while it sounds interesting, I'm not sure I'd get enough value for my money to invest in a fairly hefty book.

You piqued my interest when you mentioned PC ghouls. Would these work well as Darakhul in Midgard?

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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genghisdon wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:07 am
I posted much of the dreamlands cat here:
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=23746&p=247261#p247261
Wow, that's a lot of material. Thanks for taking the time to share it. I'm going to read it momentarily.

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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It's not all of it either (& I cut a few paragraphs of the incomplete stuff I did post)...so yeah!

(I do not want to rip him/them off either, but wanted to cover it well enough to show how it can work in play)

It's a great book too, but it's clearly & very much 5e...so no use to you, then, sadly.

The guy wrote COC, & was involved in lots of "classic" video games, so he's hardly unknown to gamers, I expect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Petersen

the Darakhul of Midgard are indeed a parallel of sorts to Mythos ghouls. I've not played or even studied either enough to make great judgments about either, at least not to experts. Suffice to say, you've seen some of the cat (5 pages), the ghouls get 6 pages, gnorri 6 pages, & zoog another 6. Plus more for feats, class tweaks, etc. More races, etc, of course, and the book is far from dedicated to strange PC races (424 pages). Most of it is about what one would expect!

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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You found a good balance between sharing enough information that it "clicks" and not copy-pasting the whole section. Well done.

I'm definitely aware of Sandy Petersen. I've played some CoC, and a lot of Quake and Doom (and sequels).

I'm not familiar with zoog or gnorri, so I had to look them up. Looks like zoog wouldn't do well in a Per-Bastet campaign!

Are gnorri able to operate on land? I know there are entire aquatic campaigns, but I've only experienced short story arcs where the action was underwater. And entirely underwater race can be tough, unless you're certain the action will never be on the ground (or there's some easy magical/mechanical means that they can move around on land).

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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Zoog vs cats are akin to elves vs orcs or dwarves vs goblins. A Zoog in Per-Bastet wouldn't last long, no...but would they die from feline attacks, of fright/heart failure, or divine/magical presence of their utter nemesis? It probably doesn't matter.

Nothing against the zoog, but not suitable there! The enchanted wood, where they are from, note, is right where humans enter the dreamlands, which can be interesting in them being usually a minor critter ( :evil: usually), but I had already considered what that entails for a dreamlands cat that sought to steer oblivious human companions into the dreamlands for a reason/adventure. :twisted:

You aren't wrong about aquatic races, but indeed a campaign can easily be set underwater, albeit a non-standard one. My experiences mirror yours, although I've toyed with the idea a few times...in my case, as part of planescape. Otherwise it's been sea or lake based journeys underwater with primarily standard characters who are reliant on magic.

I'd say liberties were taken, but Gnorri can function wherever they wish, they are... strange, and highly mutable. So, yes, entirely viable for standard play/land based. However, they are of the dreamlands, so I'd assume they are mainly for use there. Or not, we let loose the men & spiders of Leng, etc, right? The Zoog & ghouls are also dreamlands races.

"Playing a Gnorri
Gnorri are driven by individual accomplishment and seek greater success in their fields of interest. This leads some gnorri to want to explore lands above and beyond their aquatic homes. Gnorri are as capable of living on land as they are in the ocean and can even survive in desert climates (though they will find it just as difficult as most humanoid races). Most gnorri find being “tied down” to the land disturbing. The ocean is a three-dimensional existence; on land, only creatures that can fly can experience a “normal” state of being. Given gnorri cannot fly through the air as they might through the water, it can be an adjustment to “always live on the bottom” (which is what it feels like to a gnorri).

If you’re a Gnorri, you likely...
• are curious about surface dwellers, but you have trouble telling them apart and are disturbed by how rigid and unchanging their bodies are.
• value your friends for their diversity and differences rather than any similarities they might have to you.
• have several close friends (gnorri or otherwise) but do not have a concept of family; you do not know your parents, siblings, or children and have no need to know them.
• understand that there are many dangers in the sea, but your appreciation of the beauty of the ocean depths and its denizens cannot be tainted by its perils.

Others Probably...
• fear you’re a sea monster who means to drag them below the waves to drown.
• assume you’re a primitive since you prefer to use tools of bone or stone.
• mask their jealousy of your ability to breathe water with insults or fear.
• want you to help them deal with something underwater, such as recovering a bit of sunken treasure or finding good fishing.
• can’t tell your gender and may not know that there are three common sexes of gnorri." SPCM pg 21

There is...a lot, as before. They are highly mutable, a minor shape-shifter of sorts. 2-4 arms as chosen, slide through surprisingly small spaces, ignore pressure, etc.

They are large, and quite alien, so those alone are enough to cause issues for many, but they are otherwise quite capable of play anywhere. They will just be extra potent regarding aquatic adventures (or not impeded as one might impede other PCs with water)

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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genghisdon wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:15 am
Catfolk (presumably neither Rakasta or Tabaxi)?

There are pretty required for Per-Bastet, and in intro modules, but I have no idea where to find them in monster books, and they aren't in any of the 5e hero/character books; not unlikely heroes, southlands heroes, midguard heroes, midguard heroes handbook, nor the tome of beasts ...help?
There's a thread on Facebook with a couple of the designers of Southlands. They said Nkosi were their attempt to add Eberron razorclaw shifters to Southlands. But shifters aren't an OGL monster/race, so for Pathfinder they created the Nkosi. For a 5e game, players already have access to the razorclaw shifter, thanks to Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

So between Eberron: RftLW, Volo's Guide to Monsters, and Southlands Heroes, a 5e campaign has Nkosi, catfolk, and werelions.

The designers stressed that while these are different races, a DM shouldn't feel like they're required to use all three. If your Southlands has just one or two of the races, that's fine. There's definitely some concern about niche protection, and they realize for some campaigns, having three types of anthropomorphic cats could be overkill.

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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genghisdon wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:47 am
"Playing a Gnorri
Gnorri are as capable of living on land as they are in the ocean and can even survive in desert climates (though they will find it just as difficult as most humanoid races). Most gnorri find being “tied down” to the land disturbing. The ocean is a three-dimensional existence; on land, only creatures that can fly can experience a “normal” state of being. Given gnorri cannot fly through the air as they might through the water, it can be an adjustment to “always live on the bottom” (which is what it feels like to a gnorri).
So do gnorri levitate above the ground? Or do they physically transform somehow?

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

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"Speed. Your base speed is 25 feet. In addition, your long tail gives you a swimming speed of 35 feet. You don’t need to spend extra movement to swim."

For the most part, they are going to be like a snake on land (or a Marilith, or half breed Yuan-ti or greater medusa, in D&D parlance), but alternatively, more like an octopus (for those having suckers). The snake like tail form is highlighted in all artwork in the book, but the other option is hinted at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liyLoyn9ncA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFzpC_e44Tg

watch those & then read that & you can decide for yourself...

"Physiology

Gnorri appear vaguely humanoid from the torso up, yet the more one learns about how gnorri bodies work, the more their humanoid appearance seems like a coincidence.

Gnorri have a chiseled body like that of a humanoid above the waist and a tentacular lower trunk. Some gnorri even have suction cups along their tails, but this is uncommon. Above water, gnorri exude a thin layer of glistening slime that keeps them looking freshly emerged from the sea.

Gnorri’s fingers are webbed to aid in swimming but they can absorb this webbing partially into their flesh when they wish to wear rings or gloves.

(snip)

One of the most unusual features of gnorri physiology is the eerie mutability of their flesh and bones. While the basic gnorri shape remains solid and fixed, upon close examination, one can watch their scales slither and slide slowly over their body or the ridges and wrinkles of their tentacles shift and change. This fleshy fluidity is even greater inside, with entire organs “swimming” within their bodies, severing and re-attaching connections seemingly at random. At one moment, the heart may be situated within the chest, but in another it may descend into the belly to be embraced by the entrails while the liver slithers up into the chest to nuzzle against the air bladder or lung.

This trait not only allows gnorri to withstand sudden trauma to their bodies, but more amazingly, it allows them to grow or retract limbs. By concentrating, gnorri can extrude additional arms or withdraw them back into their bodies by reallocating flesh, muscle, and bone. The process takes ten minutes or so and is so exhausting gnorri cannot change the number of their arms more than once per day. Technically, gnorri could have one or no arms, but they gain no significant advantage from such a change. Gnorri cannot extrude more than four arms at once and rarely even create that many unless they wish to wield multiple weapons. This process does not change a gnorri’s mass; while gnorri have three or four arms, their bodies are weakened from the redistribution." SPCM pg 21-22, underlined mine.

I'm presuming they can thus easily mimic a snake (or octopi) land based locomotion, but again, I'm not an expert on the topic of Gnorri.

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by genghisdon »

Tim Baker wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:24 pm
genghisdon wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:15 am
Catfolk (presumably neither Rakasta or Tabaxi)?

There are pretty required for Per-Bastet, and in intro modules, but I have no idea where to find them in monster books, and they aren't in any of the 5e hero/character books; not unlikely heroes, southlands heroes, midguard heroes, midguard heroes handbook, nor the tome of beasts ...help?
There's a thread on Facebook with a couple of the designers of Southlands. They said Nkosi were their attempt to add Eberron razorclaw shifters to Southlands. But shifters aren't an OGL monster/race, so for Pathfinder they created the Nkosi. For a 5e game, players already have access to the razorclaw shifter, thanks to Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

So between Eberron: RftLW, Volo's Guide to Monsters, and Southlands Heroes, a 5e campaign has Nkosi, catfolk, and werelions.

The designers stressed that while these are different races, a DM shouldn't feel like they're required to use all three. If your Southlands has just one or two of the races, that's fine. There's definitely some concern about niche protection, and they realize for some campaigns, having three types of anthropomorphic cats could be overkill.
Thanks Tim :D

I agree with their perceived concern, although as a DM, bring on the variety! I can see pretty much any cat/cat type critter being of potential use in Per-Bastet. Not that they need to be PC's, though, no.

That said...I'm still not a fan of having to search so many campaign settings/books & then re-apply flavour from prior editions, etc. I get it, though, and it is what it is.

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Re: published adventures set in Nuria-Natal

Post by Tim Baker »

genghisdon wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:59 pm
"Speed. Your base speed is 25 feet. In addition, your long tail gives you a swimming speed of 35 feet. You don’t need to spend extra movement to swim."

For the most part, they are going to be like a snake on land (or a Marilith, or half breed Yuan-ti or greater medusa, in D&D parlance), but alternatively, more like an octopus (for those having suckers). The snake like tail form is highlighted in all artwork in the book, but the other option is hinted at.
That makes more sense. The illustration associated with the wiki entry made them look more like merfolk, so I wasn't grokking that they would actually traverse land.

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