[Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

In this dark time, new heroes must arise to claim the crowns of Midgard, and restore the jewels to her scattered thrones...

[Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Big Mac » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:43 pm

I've been looking at an expansion for Midgard, called The Southlands and I was figuring that it would probably be better to have Midgard too.

I know that Midgard started off as an Open Design thing, but that, more recently, it has come back as a revised thing (with new products replacing the original Open Design ones). But I am wondering what the "buy in" for Midgard is.

What book or books does a player need? And what book or books does a GM need?

Where do the other Midgard books fit into the product line? Are there any that stand out as being a lot more useful than others?

Does Midgard have any other sub-settings?

I believe that Midgard is a flatworld. How much space does the core Midgard area take up? How much of the remaining space do The Southlands take up and what (if anything) is left?

Is there anything in the original Open Design product line that has not yet been brought back as part of the new Midgard product line? If so, is any of that worth hunting down?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21501
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Angel Tarragon » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:05 pm

There have been a number of products released, some of which have been released as PoD. The Campaign Setting book is a good starting point for both players and DMs. Almost everything else expands on what is in the campaign setting book.

viewtopic.php?p=143247#p143247
Social Media Links

Malathéa
DevinatArt / Facebook / Google / The Piazza / Twitter / YouTube
User avatar
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
 
Posts: 8196
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:39 am
Location: Malathéa

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Isuru » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:30 pm

Big Mac wrote:I've been looking at an expansion for Midgard, called The Southlands and I was figuring that it would probably be better to have Midgard too.

I know that Midgard started off as an Open Design thing, but that, more recently, it has come back as a revised thing (with new products replacing the original Open Design ones). But I am wondering what the "buy in" for Midgard is.

Some of the newer KP products are compilations, updates (particularly 3E to Pathfinder), and some new additions to older OD products. Not too many, but I missed much of the early OP content, especially the patron exclusive stuff. The Midgard Campaign Setting book summarizes the pertinent points for those earlier projects, compiles much of what had been developed over the nearly 5 years of Kobold Quarterly issues, and again adds new lore based on the CS patron project. The new Zobeck Gazetteer is one such PF revamp of older lore from mixed sources (including the OGL/3rd era Zobeck Gazetteer), with some additional bits scattered in the Player's Guide to the Crossroads and the Midgard CS itself. The Eight Arabian Nights adventure book offered to some tiers in the Southlands Kickstarter is a Pathfinder update to the original OD patronage project, Six Arabian Nights.

Big Mac wrote:What book or books does a player need? And what book or books does a GM need?

The GM will find the Midgard Campaign Setting book useful and it serves much the same function as the hardbacks for other game settings (ex: WotC's Forgotten Realms and Eberron CS guides and Paizo's Inner Sea World Guide). Players will also find the book useful, but there are some setting "deeplore" that some GMs might want to keep under wraps. The various regional Players Guides offer quick primers for players and some player oriented PFRPG rules as well.

Big Mac wrote:Where do the other Midgard books fit into the product line? Are there any that stand out as being a lot more useful than others?

The majority of other products are adventures. Of those Tales of the Old Margrave is the archetypal Midgard adventure book with some gazetteer-y setting info. Courts of the Shadowfey, Tales of Zobeck, and Streets of Zobeck are closely related in region and theme. These establish the core of the setting in Zobeck and the Crossroads region.

The rest of the adventure modules range much wider a field. Most of the adventures don't interconnect directly like Paizo's Adventure Paths but are offered as looser, drop-in-ready, plug-n-play modules.

Big Mac wrote:Does Midgard have any other sub-settings?

Aside from the Players Guides, there are a few smaller regional supplements such as the Imperial Gazetteer and the Dwarves of the Ironcrags.

The Northlands, while connected to the main Midgard continent is more of a sub-continent and a sub-setting onto itself. It's covered in the book of the same name, Midgard: Northlands.

Dark Roads & Golden Hells covers some of the prominent planar aspects.

Journey to the West (half adventures, half island location supplement) and Pirates of the Western Ocean cover the mysterious islands and seas off the coast of Midgard.

The Southlands is covered in the forthcoming Midgard: Southlands.

Big Mac wrote:I believe that Midgard is a flatworld. How much space does the core Midgard area take up? How much of the remaining space do The Southlands take up and what (if anything) is left?

Going by the map and scale in the CS, Midgard us around 4,200 miles North to South by 4,800 to 5,600 miles East to West.
- North to South from Northlands/Hyperborea to the northern section of the Southlands encompassing Nuria-Natal and encompasses the entire Middle Sea.
- East to West from the Plains of the Khazzaki and the eastern reaches of the Mharoti Dragon Empire to either the westernmost coast of the northern Southlands for the shorter measure or encompassing all the known islands of the Western Ocean for the longer measure.
- These are rough measurements, 'sense of scope' numbers. We can consult the source if we need more accurate numbers.

From the preliminary map preview of the Southlands, it's a large continent, comparable to real world Africa, likely larger than the core of Midgard itself.

Of note, the map does indicate ancient Khandiria and the Flying City of Sikkim as the nearest neighbors beyond the eastern boundaries of the Dragon Empire and Cathay has been noted as a real location beyond them. It is safe to assume the continent extends a considerable distance into the Far East, but details are scant for those far off places. (After the Southlands, probably the next most popular place patrons want to have a go at is the 'Mysterious East', present company included.)

Big Mac wrote:Is there anything in the original Open Design product line that has not yet been brought back as part of the new Midgard product line? If so, is any of that worth hunting down?

The patron exclusive projects are rare/exclusive and probably collectible.
- Steam and Brass
- Castle Shadowcrag
- The Empire of the Ghouls
- Six Arabian Nights (being updated as Eight Arabian Nights as a Southlands KS exclusive)
- Blood of the Gorgon
- Tales of Zobeck (OGL version available at various retails, DriveThruRPG, Paizo)
- Wrath of the River King
- Halls of the Mountain King (both the 3E and 4E adventure is exclusive, but the related Dwarves of the Ironcrag Gazetter is available)
- Courts of the Shadowfey (both 4E and PFRPG versions available)
- The Lost City (available, in 4E only)
By this point, we come to the Midgard CS, which is open for purchase by all, and all the subsequent projects are publicly available (possibly with the exception of an exclusive module here or there).
User avatar
Isuru
Ogre
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:26 am

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:40 pm

The Angelic Dragon wrote:There have been a number of products released, some of which have been released as PoD. The Campaign Setting book is a good starting point for both players and DMs. Almost everything else expands on what is in the campaign setting book.


Thanks TAD. That is kind of where I am already, but where I have an issue is that there are two waves of Kobold Press books for Midgard. And some of the new books seem to be duplicates (or Pathfinder conversions) of older books. That is a concern to me. I don't really want to be buying two books that are the same thing.

Isuru wrote:
Big Mac wrote:I've been looking at an expansion for Midgard, called The Southlands and I was figuring that it would probably be better to have Midgard too.

I know that Midgard started off as an Open Design thing, but that, more recently, it has come back as a revised thing (with new products replacing the original Open Design ones). But I am wondering what the "buy in" for Midgard is.

Some of the newer KP products are compilations, updates (particularly 3E to Pathfinder), and some new additions to older OD products. Not too many, but I missed much of the early OP content, especially the patron exclusive stuff. The Midgard Campaign Setting book summarizes the pertinent points for those earlier projects, compiles much of what had been developed over the nearly 5 years of Kobold Quarterly issues, and again adds new lore based on the CS patron project. The new Zobeck Gazetteer is one such PF revamp of older lore from mixed sources (including the OGL/3rd era Zobeck Gazetteer), with some additional bits scattered in the Player's Guide to the Crossroads and the Midgard CS itself. The Eight Arabian Nights adventure book offered to some tiers in the Southlands Kickstarter is a Pathfinder update to the original OD patronage project, Six Arabian Nights.



Thanks Isuru. The "some of the products" aspect is one of the things that makes this a bit harder for me. I could just buy the Midgard Campaign Setting and ignore all the Kobold Quarterly material, but how much would I be missing? I'm guessing that 5 years would have given us 20 issues of Kobold Quarterly. I don't know what the word count of the Midgard Campaign Setting is vs the word count of Kobold Quarterly, but I do know that KQ had some Pathfinder Campaign Setting stuff in it. So it is kind of hard to know what might be missing...without already being an expert.

The patron exclusive thing is a bit of a concern to me. It seems a great way to reward the people that helped get Midgard (and Kobold Press) off of the ground (and they certainly deserved to have something) but I wonder if it leaves any holes in the Midgard canon for the late-comers. (I also wonder if there are short-supply products out there that have been grabbed by the eBay bandits.)

The fact that Zobeck Gazetteer exists in two forms means that I'm going to need to be really careful with that (and any other reprinted products) to avoid buying the wrong thing. :o

Isuru wrote:
Big Mac wrote:What book or books does a player need? And what book or books does a GM need?

The GM will find the Midgard Campaign Setting book useful and it serves much the same function as the hardbacks for other game settings (ex: WotC's Forgotten Realms and Eberron CS guides and Paizo's Inner Sea World Guide). Players will also find the book useful, but there are some setting "deeplore" that some GMs might want to keep under wraps. The various regional Players Guides offer quick primers for players and some player oriented PFRPG rules as well.


The spoiler aspect is a bit of weakness in RPG settings that are all in one book. Some people are just too tempted to read the "GM only" sections. A think that a lot of the pre-4e criticism of Forgotten Realms came from people complaining that players knew all the secrets that only the GM was supposed to know. I know that I was quite disappointed that WotC didn't bring out a follow-up book for Ghostwalk. Anyhoo, I can't imagine that Midgard Campaign Setting would "give away" any more secrets than any of the D&D and non-D&D settings discussed on The Piazza. So it isn't a deal-breaker. I've seen a few GMs that knock up player handouts, so that the players use those, instead of the proper books. I'm not sure there is a better way to do things, but Paizo has an interesting thing going on with some of their adventure paths. They have a free download for players and the GM buys all the other stuff. Maybe the same could be done for someone running a Midgard game. But I think that is a question for another thread.

I guess I need to sort out what sort of stuff is in the Midgard Players Guides and if there is anything in them that is not in the main Midgard Campaign Setting book. If they are all a subset of the campaign setting then they would not be part of the "buy in" and I can worry about them later on.

Isuru wrote:
Big Mac wrote:Where do the other Midgard books fit into the product line? Are there any that stand out as being a lot more useful than others?

The majority of other products are adventures. Of those Tales of the Old Margrave is the archetypal Midgard adventure book with some gazetteer-y setting info. Courts of the Shadowfey, Tales of Zobeck, and Streets of Zobeck are closely related in region and theme. These establish the core of the setting in Zobeck and the Crossroads region.

The rest of the adventure modules range much wider a field. Most of the adventures don't interconnect directly like Paizo's Adventure Paths but are offered as looser, drop-in-ready, plug-n-play modules.


There was a time (back when I came back to 3e) that I never used to buy adventures. I was trying to get the "player buy in" for various campaign settings. I have bought some adventures since, but I think I would prefer to start off with Midgard sourcebooks and come to the adventures later.

Isuru wrote:
Big Mac wrote:Does Midgard have any other sub-settings?

Aside from the Players Guides, there are a few smaller regional supplements such as the Imperial Gazetteer and the Dwarves of the Ironcrags.

The Northlands, while connected to the main Midgard continent is more of a sub-continent and a sub-setting onto itself. It's covered in the book of the same name, Midgard: Northlands.

Dark Roads & Golden Hells covers some of the prominent planar aspects.

Journey to the West (half adventures, half island location supplement) and Pirates of the Western Ocean cover the mysterious islands and seas off the coast of Midgard.

The Southlands is covered in the forthcoming Midgard: Southlands.


Sounds like these four are the most important supplements. :D

I might start threads to ask a bit more detail about one or more of these.

Isuru wrote:
Big Mac wrote:I believe that Midgard is a flatworld. How much space does the core Midgard area take up? How much of the remaining space do The Southlands take up and what (if anything) is left?

Going by the map and scale in the CS, Midgard us around 4,200 miles North to South by 4,800 to 5,600 miles East to West.
- North to South from Northlands/Hyperborea to the northern section of the Southlands encompassing Nuria-Natal and encompasses the entire Middle Sea.
- East to West from the Plains of the Khazzaki and the eastern reaches of the Mharoti Dragon Empire to either the westernmost coast of the northern Southlands for the shorter measure or encompassing all the known islands of the Western Ocean for the longer measure.
- These are rough measurements, 'sense of scope' numbers. We can consult the source if we need more accurate numbers.

From the preliminary map preview of the Southlands, it's a large continent, comparable to real world Africa, likely larger than the core of Midgard itself.

Of note, the map does indicate ancient Khandiria and the Flying City of Sikkim as the nearest neighbors beyond the eastern boundaries of the Dragon Empire and Cathay has been noted as a real location beyond them. It is safe to assume the continent extends a considerable distance into the Far East, but details are scant for those far off places. (After the Southlands, probably the next most popular place patrons want to have a go at is the 'Mysterious East', present company included.)


Flying City of Sikkim. :shock: :| :) :D


Isuru wrote:
Big Mac wrote:Is there anything in the original Open Design product line that has not yet been brought back as part of the new Midgard product line? If so, is any of that worth hunting down?

The patron exclusive projects are rare/exclusive and probably collectible.
- Steam and Brass
- Castle Shadowcrag
- The Empire of the Ghouls
- Six Arabian Nights (being updated as Eight Arabian Nights as a Southlands KS exclusive)
- Blood of the Gorgon
- Tales of Zobeck (OGL version available at various retails, DriveThruRPG, Paizo)
- Wrath of the River King
- Halls of the Mountain King (both the 3E and 4E adventure is exclusive, but the related Dwarves of the Ironcrag Gazetter is available)
- Courts of the Shadowfey (both 4E and PFRPG versions available)
- The Lost City (available, in 4E only)
By this point, we come to the Midgard CS, which is open for purchase by all, and all the subsequent projects are publicly available (possibly with the exception of an exclusive module here or there).


If these are "collectable" it sounds like the eBay bandits might try to push up the prices of them.

Thanks for all the advice. I might start off with just the Midgard Campaign Setting book and see what I can learn from that.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21501
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Isuru » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:54 pm

The Midgard Campaign Setting book is probably the best way to enter the setting as a DM, player, or as a setting aficionado. The regional players guides contain player oriented 'crunch' (Pathfinder system as that's the primary system for published Midgard materials at this point). The players guide lore is a summarized version of what's found in the CS (to my recollection, though I haven't done a line by line comparison).

I came into the Midgard setting a bit late myself. The same holds true for the D&D settings. If I get hampered and discouraged by missing out on earlier products, I'm about 15-30 years behind with the D&D settings where as it's only about 6 years for Midgard. I back-fill my collection as best I can and take opportunities like the Southlands KS offering the Six (now Nine) Arabian Nights to accomplish the task.

As for conflict between earlier and updated (Zobeck) gazetteers, the updates are usually rules-specific (ex: Pathfinder update) and compilations of several sources (original gazetteer, KQ articles, patron project adventure intros, etc.). In that case, I would say the update is a "more comprehensive" version, even if they are not the absolute "most complete" source. The updated gazetteer probably has the better organization and presentation format, as a matter of distance and hindsight.

Indeed, the Flying City of Sikkim. The name and implied concept is about as much as anyone knows about it from published sources (ample mentions here and there, including involvement of the elemental "dragon" god of Air). I'm sure in time when the adventures and setting supplements wander towards the east, we will see more. I believe the Southlands has a band of exiles refugees from Sikkim who settled on the continent. In fact, here is the preview article on the KQ blog: The Aeromancers of Aerdvall, Masters of Air Magics. So it appears we will learn more about Sikkim, indirectly in the Southlands.
User avatar
Isuru
Ogre
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:26 am

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby ben_mcfarland » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:51 pm

Isuru's right.

The baseline book I'd look at is the Midgard Campaign Setting, and then, probably, Midgard Tales.

If you're wanting the most detailed region, that's the Crossroads, including Zobeck. It has Zobeck, covered by the Crossroads Gazetteer, expanded with Streets of Zobeck, and, if you're willing to do a little conversion, Tales of Zobeck. Then the Dwarves of the Ironcrags is OGL/3.5, but still valid and useful. Tales of the Old Margreave is half anthology, half gazetteer. And then the Imperial Gazetteer covers Morgau & Doresh, with some of the Empire of the Ghouls. Those six books give you a solid core of the Crossroads region, with about 20 adventures, too. Out of print but sometimes on ebay, are Blood of the Gorgon, Castle Shadowcrag, Empire of the Ghouls, and Halls of the Mountain King-- which are all set in the region. A lot of what's in the Crossroads Gazetteer is pulled from the earlier material, compiling it together and updating it.

Otherwise, Journeys to the West covers Barsalla and the Western Isles, and has 6 adventures.

Midgard Legends has a pile of legendary figures in Midgard, and then some associated bits of crunch to use with them. Maybe two stat blocks of creatures in there...but a very useful book.

-Ben.
Ben McFarland
Progressio sine timore aut praejudicia - Spectemur agendo - Sub Rosa, the Ars Magica Fanzine
User avatar
ben_mcfarland
Goblin
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:25 am

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Doomedpaladin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:53 pm

^^This guy is one of the two main authors for Southlands, the lead guy for Streets of Zobeck and an author of much, much more.

Zobeck is the most detailed region and the one most prone to overlap and re-use of material in the books. The other location books are mostly specific to their regions with only a little mention of other parts of Midgard, which makes it easy to drop them into homebrews.
Doomedpaladin
Kobold
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:09 am

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:09 pm

Thanks for the additional information Isuru and Ben.

Having started to search for things, I've discovered that a lot of the Midgard products are very hard (if not impossible) to buy in dead-tree format. As that is my preferred format (over PDF) that has kind of made the decision a bit different for me. If I can't buy something (at the moment) I kind of don't need to worry about it right now. :lol:

After finding it impossible to buy a dead tree copy of Midgard Campaign Setting from Amazon.co.uk, I did just discover that the softback version of Midgard Campaign Setting was on sale at DriveThru RPG, and snapped that up. So that one is out of the way. I'm now looking at Midgard Tales, but I'm also thinking that Midgard Bestiary is probably going to be fairly relevant to the setting. I'm also looking at your other suggestions.

I will probably make a private list for myself on my Amazon account, assign a priority based on how helpful it looks like they will be and then look out for a price I am happy to go with. If I do that, I can get at least some of these products into a queue of things to buy.

Doomedpaladin wrote:^^This guy is one of the two main authors for Southlands, the lead guy for Streets of Zobeck and an author of much, much more.


Thanks Doomedpaladin. I did already notice that Ben was a pro. It is very kind of him to try to help someone who is trying to find the way into a setting. RPG designers don't get paid for "after sales support" so I always think it is cool when any of them come and talk to fans.

Doomedpaladin wrote:Zobeck is the most detailed region and the one most prone to overlap and re-use of material in the books. The other location books are mostly specific to their regions with only a little mention of other parts of Midgard, which makes it easy to drop them into homebrews.


I'm actually hoping to keep Midgard as its own thing with its own theme, rather than do homebrew. If I mix it with anything, it will be to use it as a planet to visit in a Spelljammer campaign (and then build a Midgardspace crystal sphere around it). :)
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21501
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby ripvanwormer » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:30 am

The Bestiary has some interesting monsters, but it's not essential in the way that a monster book is to, say, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, or the Iron Kingdoms. The only monsters in it that I'd consider essential to a Midgard campaign are the darakhul and shadow fey, and you could plausibly replace those with, say, necropolitans and drow and still retain the flavor.

That said, the Bestiary has some Slavic, Celtic, and Norse monsters that are very appropriate additions to a Midgard campaign. A lot of it would make for very good Ravenloft monsters as well.
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2997
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Big Mac » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:02 am

Big Mac wrote:
Doomedpaladin wrote:^^This guy is one of the two main authors for Southlands, the lead guy for Streets of Zobeck and an author of much, much more.


Thanks Doomedpaladin. I did already notice that Ben was a pro. It is very kind of him to try to help someone who is trying to find the way into a setting. RPG designers don't get paid for "after sales support" so I always think it is cool when any of them come and talk to fans.


I just realised, from the post you made in Havard's "Subsettings?" thread that you meant that you were also a pro. :facepalm: :oops:

Thanks ever so much for the advice (and support for fans).

Now I've got the Midgard book (and am signed up for the Southlands Kickstarter) I'll probably read through Midgard Campaign Setting and have a look to see what areas are the most interesting to me.

ripvanwormer wrote:The Bestiary has some interesting monsters, but it's not essential in the way that a monster book is to, say, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, or the Iron Kingdoms. The only monsters in it that I'd consider essential to a Midgard campaign are the darakhul and shadow fey, and you could plausibly replace those with, say, necropolitans and drow and still retain the flavor.


Not being essential is an interesting thing. I thought that the monsters would be helping to sell the theme. I know that kobolds are pretty important to Midgard, as Kobold Press is named after them. Do the other books in the product line mostly use core monsters from the Pathfinder SRD and give them a bespoke Midgard feel? I guess that an approach like that would be a lot more useful, if Kobold Press wanted to aim its books at people that are not entirely interested in keeping the setting. Generic monsters would aid "raidability".

Do darakhul look similar enough to necropolitans* to be hand-waved away as a local variant? Or did you just mean that they occupy a similar niche.

* = I don't actually know what a "necropolitan" is, but I hear they make great ice-cream! ;)

Are shadow fey large enough to be hand-waved away as a drow subrace? That might be quite interesting in a multi-world campaign.

ripvanwormer wrote:That said, the Bestiary has some Slavic, Celtic, and Norse monsters that are very appropriate additions to a Midgard campaign. A lot of it would make for very good Ravenloft monsters as well.


Havard was talking about sub-settings for Midgard. Would the Slavic, Celtic and Norse monsters tie in with specific sub-settings (or regions)? Or are they all mixed together?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21501
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby ripvanwormer » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:39 pm

Necropolitans are undead humans from the 3.5 accessory Libris Mortis. Darakhul are citizens of the Empire of the Ghouls, essentially the same as the true ghouls or shadow ghouls that Wolfgang Baur introduced in 2nd edition's "Kingdom of the Ghouls" in Dungeon Magazine #70, "The Ecology of the Ghoul" in Dragon #252, and in "A Gathering of Winds" in Dungeon #129 for the Age of Worms adventure path for 3.5. The Midgard Bestiary details several variants, and the supplement is useful in that respect. But you could probably replace them with similar civilized undead without doing much violence to the setting.

Shadow fey don't look anything like drow and they have unique abilities that make it worth using the real thing. If you didn't have the Bestiary or another source that detailed them, though, you could probably fudge it and use drow stats in a pinch. They're as big as drow but they live on the Plane of Shadow, not the Underdark, and they're definitely not a drow subrace. They're more like flickering crosses between elves and goblins, with long arms and sometimes horns. Ravenloft had the shadow elves of Arak that would probably make adequate replacements too.

There are no kobolds in the Midgard Bestiary. Midgard kobolds are standard kobolds, except for their alignment. They're important to the setting in that Zobeck has a kobold quarter and they're a major presence in the Dragon Empire. Kobold Quarterly was called that because kobolds are like small, humble versions of dragons and KQ was like a small, humble version of Dragon Magazine, and the company took its name from that.

The monsters in the book are mixed together, not divided by the culture whose legends and stories inspired them.

I like the Midgard Bestiary. I'm just saying that Midgard doesn't diverge from standard D&D or Pathfinder's monster lists so drastically that it's absolutely essential for playing in the setting.

It may be more helpful just to say "yes, the Midgard Bestiary has some important monsters in it, and those monsters that aren't so important are still interesting and flavorful, so get it" then to list monsters that you could sort of, kind of replace them with if you reskinned them and ignored how they're supposed to look. But you could definitely run a Midgard campaign without most of the monsters the Midgard Bestiary details.

As for helping to sell the setting's themes: to some extent, yes. There are a lot of hags and dark fey and devils and clockwork monsters that support the idea that Midgard is a place with a lot of hags and dark fey and devils and clockwork. But there a lot of generic monsters that sell those themes too.
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2997
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:43 pm

Thanks for your help. It looks like I should be looking out for Zobeck products before buying the Midgard Bestiary.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21501
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Midgard] What is the "buy in" for Midgard?

Postby thorr-kan » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:03 pm

Of course, there is also the free Midgard Preview from DrivethruRPG:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/1 ... rd-Preview
thorr-kan
Bugbear
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:40 pm


Return to Midgard

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest