What is on the underside of Midgard?

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What is on the underside of Midgard?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:25 pm

Old Man mentioned that there is another realm on the bottom of Midgard, over in the To the Edge of the World. I was curious about this, but do not want to derail that thread, so here is the relevant part of my reply:
Big Mac wrote:
Old Man wrote:So far, from what I've seen, Midgard is a disk but appears roughly squarish (perhaps circular but the maps at the edges are deliberately vague). The Midgard serpent is looped around the edges of the world. Where water spills over, it is likely caught in the coils and returns to the Underdark. The underside of Midgard is a different realm (I don't recall what off the top of my head - something Elven/Dark Elven) and in between there are layers of realms inside of Midgard.


Thanks Old Man.

I wish here was a Midgard fansite out there (or more than one fansite out there) with some information about the setting.

I guess that having another realm (elven or not) on the underside of Midgard would mean that it would have a gravity plane. :cool:


Does anyone know more about what Old Man was talking about?

Is this realm covered in a specific book?

Is this just a Kobold Quarterly thing, or has it been converted over to the newer Pathfinder RPG line?
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Re: What is on the underside of Midgard?

Postby Doomedpaladin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:57 pm

We don't have anything on what's down there yet except speculation. Some discussion during the CS project on the KP boards before they were shut down and on G+ have included:

The Summerlands, where the elves retreated to using their shadow roads.

The Elemental Kingdom, where all the elemental planes are combined into a single world populated by elementals.

I suggested a Mythic World combining these two^^ recently on G+.

The Underworld, Land of the Dead, where souls stand in endless queues in an otherworldly bureaucracy overseen by psychopomps and fought over by angels and devils. (traveling through the Underdark and into the Underworld has been brought up often)

The Birthplace of the Gods (no real description beyond that)

The Coils of the World Serpent, where everything that falls off the edge ends up in a roiling sea of chaos.

There have been other ideas, but I can't remember them at the moment. I imagine it'll be a while before the underside is going to be tackled, after Southlands there's still the Far East and our Underdark to expand upon.
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Re: What is on the underside of Midgard?

Postby Old Man » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:20 pm

Doomedpaladin wrote:We don't have anything on what's down there yet except speculation. Some discussion during the CS project on the KP boards before they were shut down and on G+ have included:

The Summerlands, where the elves retreated to using their shadow roads.
...
There have been other ideas, but I can't remember them at the moment. I imagine it'll be a while before the underside is going to be tackled, after Southlands there's still the Far East and our Underdark to expand upon.


The Summerlands was the one I recall. With assorted realms in the layers in between (the Ghouls iirc, etc.).

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Re: What is on the underside of Midgard?

Postby BrianSuskind » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:48 pm

I've asked Wolfgang about this. In fact I tried to pitch a project dealing with the flipside of Midgard, and I even tried to make the Great Sinkhole in the Southlands a pit that leads to the underside. But Wolfgang is keeping things under wraps. He did say that he will be revealing what is over there (or under there?) at some point but for now he wants it to remain a secret.

We will all just have to wait and see. :)
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Re: What is on the underside of Midgard?

Postby Big Mac » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:36 pm

Doomedpaladin wrote:We don't have anything on what's down there yet except speculation. Some discussion during the CS project on the KP boards before they were shut down and on G+ have included:


Did anyone manage to archive any of the content from the Kobold Press boards, before they got shut down?

EDIT: Never mind. I got an answer to that in the "How much Midgard content was on the KQ forum?" topic.

Doomedpaladin wrote:The Summerlands, where the elves retreated to using their shadow roads.


That is an interesting concept. So do shadow roads vanish down into the Underdark?

Doomedpaladin wrote:The Elemental Kingdom, where all the elemental planes are combined into a single world populated by elementals.


That would radically change the way that the Planescape elements of D&D and Pathfinder would fit with Midgard. It would kind of bring the cosmology to the Material Plane.

Doomedpaladin wrote:I suggested a Mythic World combining these two^^ recently on G+.


Do you have a link to the thread on Google+ where you suggested that?

Doomedpaladin wrote:The Underworld, Land of the Dead, where souls stand in endless queues in an otherworldly bureaucracy overseen by psychopomps and fought over by angels and devils. (traveling through the Underdark and into the Underworld has been brought up often)


That sounds logical. Presumaby you would need to flip over within the Underdark, half way through. But I do wonder if the lands of the living would eventually "fill up" a Land of the Dead that was the same size.

Perhaps if you had a Midgard-sized Land of the Dead that was a bit like Ghostwalk, the dead could stay there for a bit and then move on to somewhere else. :?

Doomedpaladin wrote:The Birthplace of the Gods (no real description beyond that)


Hmm. So that would make Midgard upside-down. :)

Doomedpaladin wrote:The Coils of the World Serpent, where everything that falls off the edge ends up in a roiling sea of chaos.


Would that make the World Serpent bigger than the circumference of Midgard?

Doomedpaladin wrote:There have been other ideas, but I can't remember them at the moment. I imagine it'll be a while before the underside is going to be tackled, after Southlands there's still the Far East and our Underdark to expand upon.


Right. So I guess this topic will be speculation for a few years. :)

Old Man wrote:The Summerlands was the one I recall. With assorted realms in the layers in between (the Ghouls iirc, etc.).


Layers? Midgard has layers? What are they?

BrianSuskind wrote:I've asked Wolfgang about this. In fact I tried to pitch a project dealing with the flipside of Midgard, and I even tried to make the Great Sinkhole in the Southlands a pit that leads to the underside. But Wolfgang is keeping things under wraps. He did say that he will be revealing what is over there (or under there?) at some point but for now he wants it to remain a secret.


The Great Sinkhole sounds interesting. I'll look forward to reading about that, when the Southlands book comes out.

BrianSuskind wrote:We will all just have to wait and see. :)


I guess. :)
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Re: What is on the underside of Midgard?

Postby Old Man » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:38 am

If I recall correctly, Midgard has at least 3 or was it 4 layers - including the top and underside. The realms of the ghouls were below the surface where they war vs other races (pg 58). Also there is the Shadow Realm (pg 192) that joins the Elven Lands above to the Fair Below (aka Summerlands), via the fey roads. (I could also see GMs defining any number of other layers as the "thickness" of Midgard is not discussed.)

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Re: What is on the underside of Midgard?

Postby Big Mac » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:09 am

Old Man wrote:If I recall correctly, Midgard has at least 3 or was it 4 layers - including the top and underside. The realms of the ghouls were below the surface where they war vs other races (pg 58). Also there is the Shadow Realm (pg 192) that joins the Elven Lands above to the Fair Below (aka Summerlands), via the fey roads. (I could also see GMs defining any number of other layers as the "thickness" of Midgard is not discussed.)

Regards,
Old Man


Presumably, there would be a Spelljammer-style gravity plane in the middle of the flatworld, with an underdark-like environment above that line and a reverse-gravity underdark below it.
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Re: What is on the underside of Midgard?

Postby ripvanwormer » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:02 am

The Midgard Campaign Setting, page 12, says " Others believe that the elves merely prevented further summoning, and re-established the borders of the Elflands on the far side of Midgard." Dark Roads and Golden Hells, page 26, says "If Midgard and the Elflands are two sides of the same coin, then the Shadow Realm is the darkness between." Which makes it sound like, yes, the Elflands are on the other side of Midgard's disc.

I don't think the Shadow Realm is exactly comparable to the Underdark. There are at least some places there where you can look up and see the stars. I think of it as a transitive plane that echoes both Midgard and the Elflands.
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