The Piazza

So I just read the passage in Dawn of Night. Interesting, but definitely more proof that modern FR, or at least many FR writers, do not think the Spelljammer cosmography applies. I couldn't see anything to indicate what year this was supposed to take place in.

Awesome, thanks, Van!

I gotta say, I wish you'd do a timeline for PS similar to the one I've done for SJ. If you don't, I might take your work, properly credited, and produce one myself someday.

This thread is about the closest I've seen to a Planescape timeline.

One of the things slowing down jammers, and driving my renewed work on the timeline, is the 'gap.' In my timeline, there is a gap of from roughly -5,000 OC to 1,000 OC with only one or two events, a veritable Dark Ages! I'm hoping my expanded timeline, with PS and Mystaran events added, will fill things out better.

I go by publishing date. The Factol's Manifesto and In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil were both 1995, and there are contextual hints that one real-world year represents one year passing in Planescape after that (the Planescape Campaign Setting, published in 1994, takes place in the same year as The Factol's Manifesto and In the Cage, since Rowan Darkwood has been in Sigil for a year in both).

Does he appear at all in the original Planescape boxed set?

Do you have a page # for "In the Cgae" saying Rowan has been in Sigil less then a year? I can't find it. Does he appear at all in the original Planescape boxed set?

Oh, I meant that both The Factol's Manifesto and Planescape Campaign Setting said that Darkwood had been in Sigil for less than a year.

"About a year ago he decided to make the City of Doors his home." - The Factol's Manifesto, page 61.

"He's only been in the Cage for about a year." - Planescape Campaign Setting, "Sigil and Beyond," page 73.

Well, okay, about a year, not less than. Anyway, that implies that they take place during the same year.

We know The Factol's Manifesto and In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil take place in the same year because on page 71 of The Factol's Manifesto it notes that Hashkar has been "factol of the Guvners for 127 years," while on page 12 of In the Cage it states that "The current date is the 127th year of
Facto1 Hashkar’s reign."

As with Spelljammer, TSR did not provide a detailed chronology for the Planescape setting. That makes establishing a chronological link for Planescape products and events and Spelljammer products and events problematic. Rip Van Wormer has done a great deal of work on Planescape’s chronology and I generally have followed his lead (I am hoping to convince him to do a timeline like this one for Planescape, in fact).

There is a calendar system introduced In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil; years are counted according to the reigns of the factols of the Fraternity of Order. In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil was set in the 127th year of Factol Hashkar’s reign (p12). The Factol's Manifesto is also set specifically in the 127th year of Factol Hashkar’s reign (p71). Rowan Darkwood (Factol of the Fated) has been in Sigil for about a year in both The Factol's Manifesto (p61) and the Planescape Campaign Setting (p73). So we have a specific date of 127 Ha (Hashkar’s Reign) for these three foundational Planescape products.

But most Planescape products do not have a specific date provided for them. The Factol's Manifesto and In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil were both published in 1995, and there are suggestions in later works that in Planescape one year of publishing equals a year of time in the setting. For example, in Faction War, published in 1998, Rowan Darkwood has been in Sigil for "a few years" (p34). And in The Factol's Manifesto, the Great Upheaval is said to have taken place "close to 630 years ago" (p81) and in Faction War it took place "some 630-odd years ago" (p114).

The Planescape module Tales from the Infinite Staircase (p8-9) crosses over with the Forgotten Realms module For Duty and Deity (p5). Tales from the Infinite Staircase was published in 1998, and apparently takes place just prior to the Faction War (also published in 1998), both these products are most likely set in 130 Ha which in turn coincides with Toril’s 1370 DR.

As mentioned above, On Hallowed Ground states that the Time of Troubles occurred in the Forgotten Realms just over twelve years ago (p168). The Time of Troubles was in 1358 DR, so that would establish On Hallowed Ground as occurring in 1370 DR. It also states that the events of the Dragonlance novel, Dragons of Summer Flame, occurred recently (p164). That novel is set in 383 AC. That would link 1370 DR and 383 AC and 130 Ha. Using this as an intersection 1361 DR would correspond to 374 AC. On Hallowed Ground was published in 1996, which would tend to indicate it was set in 128 Ha and it certainly predates Faction War. This conflicts with the Tales From the Infinite Staircase date. But I prefer to assume On Hallowed Ground is essentially dateless, as the Dragonlance & Forgotten Realms dates are so out of sync, clearly inspired by the books that were then being produced for the settings without considering how the chronologies should intersect. Dragonlance was beset by chronological jumps in the 1990s when the 5th Age products came out, advancing in time far more quickly than the other TSR campaigns of the time.

Die Vecna Die! Provides further evidence in favor of 1370 DR and 130 Ha, as in Tales from the Infinite Staircase. In that module, Vecna enters Sigil not long after the Faction War (130 Ha), and returns as a lesser god to Oerth. According to the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, set in 591 CY, this occurred ‘recently’ (pp13, 186). This links 1370 DR with 130 Ha and 590 CY.
Dragonlance, Dark Sun, and Planescape are linked by the Planewalker's Handbook, set in 128 Ha (p53); the Chaos War on Krynn (383 AC/0 SC) and the events of the Dark Sun adventure Black Spine (FY 6) are referred to as recent events.(p????) This might be a trump date for Dragonlance or Planescape campaigns, but since the Spelljammer novel Beyond the Moons specifically contradicts it for a Spelljammer campaign we can ignore this link.

This leaves us with 130 Ha linked to 1370 DR, or 121 Ha linked to 1361 DR.

We know for sure that Die Vecna Die! takes place in 591 CY not just because the LIving Greyhawk Gazetteer describes its events as "recent," but because in the Greyhawk Players Guide (which is also set in 591 CY), the events had not yet happened.

Citations: The Greyhawk Players Guide, published in 1998, identifies the current date on page 2. Vecna appears on the list of demigods on page 20. The events of Die Vecna Die involve the demigod Vecna briefly becoming a greater deity and ending the book a lesser deity (page 150: "He's free of the prison plane that held him and, despite the liberation of Iuz, still a god." He's described as a lesser deity in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 186, which notes, "He recently became a lesser god after freeing himself from an extradimensional prison.").

At least one other Planescape accessory does indicate that the current date is after the Summer of Chaos on Krynn. A Guide to the Ethereal Plane (1998) describes Krynn's Border Ethereal on page 16: "Chant is that this world fell under the sway of some chaotic power. No one knows if that's the dark of it, but fact is, a body can't reach Krynn any longer. Many bloods've tried, but they all return rattling their bone-boxes about ether gaps and creatures born of chaos. If that's true, then the Border area around Krynn's been blocked. A body'd do well to stay away." And yes, Bruce Cordell does overdo the cant in that book.

So while I completely understand leaning toward Spelljammer sources for a Spelljammer timeline, it may be worth noting that On Hallowed Ground and The Planewalker's Handbook aren't aberrations in this regard. Just more to ignore, I guess.

You left some page numbers in The Planewalker's Handbook with question marks, so I'll fill them in here.

Hmmm... Not sure if I'll add that or not. I don't think it countermands what I wrote, I just wish I owned Die Vecna Die so I could judge it better. The one year discrepancy is just too minor to sweat here. Especially since the Player's Guide might just describe what players know, not reality. There would be a period in 591 where he was a demigod before becoming known to be a lesser god.

From Meredoth's description in Domains of Dread:

"Meredoth lived on the world of Mystara (from the MYSTARA campaign setting). There, he was granted a barony in the Alphatian province of Norwold."

Mystara/Spelljammer

Mystara was, for most of its existence, not part of the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons multiverse as originally described in the Player’s Handbook and Dungeon Master’s Guide. It was the setting instead for the Dungeon & Dragons game, and grew from the module X1 Isle of Dread, which sketched out the world, and was included in all of the 1980 Dungeons & Dragons: Expert Sets. In 1994 TSR converted Mystara to the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons system and subsequently made some minor attempts to add it to the multiverse setting.

In Domains of Dread the Dark Lord Meredoth is said to come from the Alphatian province of Norwold, arriving in 635 of the Barovian calander. (p79) But Norwold was not colonized by Alphatia until 919 AC according to Dawn of the Emperors (Bk III, p7). This would put Mystara wildly out of sync with the other campaign settings, and can be discounted as an example of Ravenloft’s famous mists transferring their victims through time as well as drawing them across planes.

There are some Planescape/Mystaran cross-overs. The Planewalker's Handbook, set in 128 Ha (p53), describes the Alphatian Empire as “fallen” (p33). We know the Alphatian Empire disappeared from the surface of Mystara in 1009 AC as depicted in Wrath of the Immortals (p??). Additionally, Uncaged: Faces of Sigil, set in 128 Ha, describes a Shadow Elf, Farrow, as an inhabitant of Sigil (p32). Farrow is spying in the Great School of Glantri when a Glantrian mage forcibly sends him to Sigil through a gate. It is unclear how long Farrow has been in Sigil, but certainly a few years. This provides a broad link between current time in Planescape and Mystara.

There is an equally vague, yet direct, link between Mystara and Spelljammer. The introductory Advanced Dungeons & Dragons boxed set First Quest includes a Spelljammer adventure in which the antagonists are heading for the Rock of Bral (AdvBk, pp. 45-54). Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure is contemporary with First Quest (p??) and is set in 1012 AC (this aligns with Poor Wizard’s Almanac III, also set in 1012 AC and published in 1994 like Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure and First Quest. There is no indication that the Rock as mentioned is not contemporary with its description in SJR5 Rock of Bral, which is set in 5049 OC. This fits with the Planescape links above, as the fall of Alphatia in 1009 AC would coincide with 124 Ha.

So we have 1012 AC linked to 5049 OC, which is 1367 DR. That would make 1361 DR equal to 1006 AC.

There is no indication that the Rock as mentioned is not contemporary with its description in SJR5 Rock of Bral, which is set in 5049 OC.

This seemed the weakest part of your reasoning to me, since it struck me as odd to think that the Spelljammer setting stayed still while the other settings advanced in chronology. But it didn't seem so weak that it was worth commenting on; setting it in 5049 OC/1009 AC/124 Hashkar fits the clues we've been given well enough, after all. My own synchronization was only a year off, since I used Joshuan's Almanac instead of The Poor Wizard's Almanac III; I didn't realize that that series skipped a year of Mystara's time between 1994 and 1995. Given that your sources fit with Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure and First Quest, it seems smarter to go that route.

But you wanted feedback, so that's what I think! Apart from that, I have no complaints.