Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

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Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Chimpman » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:05 am

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Map of the Known World, circa BC 1700, 8 miles per hex by John Calvin, September 2011 (Work In Progress)
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1) The triggered by the elves has created the Broken Lands (which swallows up King Loark's Horde). The landscape is devastated - I'm not sure if the destruction should be spread even further. My original BC 1000 map has the same spread of destruction, so if that is the case, then maybe we need more in this era.
2) The Land of Black Sands is created by the LRoF. It is currently small, but will continue to grow throughout the centuries.
3) The first troll/giant migrations into the Northern Reaches happen at this time.
4) Ethengar is an interesting place during this time. Akkila Khan (southern steppes) allies with the Ethengar to fight off Loark's Great Horde which is moving in from the north (through Norwold and Antalian territory). Later Akkila is betrayed by his own allies.
5) There is still a lot to do on this map - city placement and borders still need to be worked out.

Sources:


References
  1. Mystara BC 2300
  2. GazH Project
  3. Anciant Nithian Kingdom
Thanks to: Thorfinn Tait, for providing some wonderful graphics to use in all of our mapping projects, Hugin for his work on the GazH project, James Mishler for his early work on Ancient Nithia.
Last edited by Chimpman on Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Havard » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:54 am

Cool map!

This raises alot of interesting questions:

What is the nature of the Land of the Black Sands? Does it grow because of increased Spirit World influence?

The Dragonlord Trilogy also had dragons appearing near these lands...

As you say, Ethengar is an interesting place at this time!


I will be watching as this progresses!


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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Chimpman » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:13 pm

Here are some references from Gaz 12:
Gaz12 wrote:BC 3000
The Great Rain of Fire obliterates Blackmoor; the planet shifts and the ice caps recede from the steppes. Spirits are drawn in to merge with the world.
Gaz 12, DM pg 5

BC 1700
Elves in Glantri trigger a cataclysm that has a profound affect on the lands of the steppes. The Land of Black Sand is formed.
Gaz 12, DM pg 5

Ever since the disaster in Glantri, it has been a land of death and decay - a place in which nothing grows.
...
To one who knows the way, the Land of Black Sand contains a gate to the Spirit World
Gaz 12, DM pg 7

The spirits are from the Spirit World, an outer plane that was brought into contact with the Known World following the Great Rain of Fire that destroyed Blackmoor.
...
The catastrophe that destroyed the elves in Glantri brought the Spirit World into even closer contact with the Known World, opening a gate in what was later to be known as the Land of Black Sand.
...
The Land of Black Sand, fed directly by Entropy, began to grow swallowing up areas of steppeland and spawning undead abominations.
Gaz 12, DM pg 37
One interpretation of this (though I agree there could be other interpretations) is that the Land of Black Sands is growing over time, "fed directly by Entropy". It could also be that the area covered by the Sands fluctuates, growing and shrinking, but I think I'd rule that it would be easier for the area to gain new lands than to release them.

The idea I've been toying with behind the creation of the Land of Black Sands is that one of the Shimmering Lands Elders had a secret facility in the World Mountain - a facility dedicated to researching the Radiance. The location is abandoned in BC 1800 after Kagyar changes the dwarves, but the research remains. The detonation of the BC 1700 device in the Broken Lands triggers a sympathetic response with the equipment left in the World Mountain to create the Land of Black Sands. The proximity of the shattered Gate of Light (now under water) could also have played some role in this. Hmmm... perhaps they is an underwater analogue to the Land of Black Sands in the seas of Oostland...
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:02 pm

Chimpman wrote:Hmmm... perhaps they is an underwater analogue to the Land of Black Sands in the seas of Oostland...
And how big would it have grown by now, I wonder...
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Birchbeer » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:11 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Chimpman wrote:Hmmm... perhaps they is an underwater analogue to the Land of Black Sands in the seas of Oostland...
And how big would it have grown by now, I wonder...
This makes even more sense of why dwarves of Gråbjerge are there and so secluded. (Barring the web almanacs... still not completely sure why they became so friendly.)

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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:43 pm

The apparent friendliness of the moulder dwarves in the Almanacs was actually faked. IIRC, the plan was that the dwarves would cultivate certain human allies and then turn them on each other, to prevent a unified kingdom of any sort from arising - especially in Soderfjord. IIRC, the dwarves had a nasty plan to use all the eventual carnage to their advantage - possibly for the creation of certain artefacts. But these are memories drawn from discussions years ago, so if anyone else remembers the details they're more than welcome to join in.
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Birchbeer » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:10 pm

That makes more sense.

I once had this idea the Gråbjerge were slowly dying out and started to marry the humans there. Partially to control their society, partially to prevent their extinction. If I ever went along that line of thought, that's where Muls (half-dwarves) would be in Mystara. I never did write this up though... maybe it'll be of help to someone's campaign :)

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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Cthulhudrew » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:50 pm

Your memories jibe with my own, re: the Moulder dwarves, Geoff. I am almost 100% sure that was the direction Jacob Skytte was taking with the moulder dwarves plot, from my recollections of our discussions in the Old World portion of the almanac.
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Chimpman » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:27 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Chimpman wrote:Hmmm... perhaps they is an underwater analogue to the Land of Black Sands in the seas of Oostland...
And how big would it have grown by now, I wonder...
Based on the corresponding size of the Land of Black Sands, I'd say it could have expanded to fill the entire area of Zea Bay, and perhaps beyond. What manner of foul creatures would those waters breed... that's the real question. :twisted: Perhaps it could be a pilgrimage area for Devil Fish.
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by multizar » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:57 am

Another quality Map!
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:54 am

Updated this map as well. I've expanded the disaster area from its original state. One thing I started thinking about was the terrain in the Broken Lands themselves. There is actually some geological activity that goes on in that area after the BC 1700 blast (the Oenkmar volcano circa BC 500), so I'm wondering if the terrain should change between BC 1700, BC 500, and the modern era?
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:19 pm

I think the terrain of the blast area could change a bit more. Perhaps most of the hilly country (forested or not) as of AC 1000 would be broken lands (erosion and weathering rounded some of them off, and reforestation did the rest. Then there are also the effects of altered river courses, too.

Another idea could be to create one or two minor escarpments around the blast zone, which later got covered with debris or collapsed due to subsequent earthquakes.

I think a few dead forest hexes would be good, too (ashfall from the blast zone).
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:39 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:I think the terrain of the blast area could change a bit more. Perhaps most of the hilly country (forested or not) as of AC 1000 would be broken lands (erosion and weathering rounded some of them off, and reforestation did the rest. Then there are also the effects of altered river courses, too.

Another idea could be to create one or two minor escarpments around the blast zone, which later got covered with debris or collapsed due to subsequent earthquakes.

I think a few dead forest hexes would be good, too (ashfall from the blast zone).
Thanks Seer, these are all great ideas! I need to go back and figure out again all of the geological events that happen in this area. Let me know if I'm missing anything:
BC 1700 - The LRoF (caused by elves tinkering with a Blackmoorian artifact)
BC 1290 - Atzanteotle raises the city of Aengmor from the depths to the surface (humanoids find the city in BC 1190, 100 years later)
BC 500 - Atzanteotle sinks Oenkmar (formerly Aengmor), swallowing the city in a volcanic eruption.

I'm thinking that each of these events should be a fairly large scale and well known occurrence - of course the BC 1700 event was the largest and that is represented in the histories of all of the modern day nations in the region... however the other two events could have been just as impactful.

I see the BC 1290 event as a large volcanic eruption. There were probably columns of ash shot up into the air that could have been seen from hundreds of miles away, and those clouds could have had a more direct impact on local populations once they began falling to the earth again. Having such a disaster happen so soon after the BC 1700 catastrophe almost ensures that no one but humanoids will populate this area in the following centuries.

Minor volcanic activity is probably rampant in the region from BC 1290 to BC 500. I envision a large bubble of land slowly expanding under the city of Oenkmar. In BC 500 that bubble finally bursts, and Oenkmar sinks down into the depths supported by a lake of molten lava. This event may not be as well known as the other two, because I don't see it being as catastrophic. Of course those having direct dealings with the Oenkmarians would know what happened, but nations further away may never have any inkling of this event other than feeling a few earthquakes and tremors.
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by RobJN » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:00 pm

I was doing some reading on the BC 1700 catastrophe, and found that, according to canon, the Land of Black Sand in Ethengar was formed (and supposedly related to) the detonation of the Blackmoor device(s) that formed the Broken Lands.

What, I thought, could possibly wither grass, turn the lands to ash and fused black glass, while ripping open a gate that tangled up the Spirit world and the Sphere of Entropy? Especially when the supposed cause of that event was nearly 500 miles away...

Then I looked at at LoZompatore's Mystara-Brun-Alphatia reference map:
Image
The two areas line up fairly close along an axis pointing towards a proposed location to Lost Blackmoor.
The lower circle, which could be a spot where the Hinfolk's cavern of Blackflame is, lines up ... kinda close to where the Gate of Light could have been along an axis to Blackmoor. I suppose lining the Gate of Light and Blackmoor up perfectly would place the other end of that line somewhere along where the larger Taymora landmass used to sit?

We know there was significant activity along the southern Brunian continental shelf to pretty much sink the rest of Taymora, most likely as a result of the Ka-Blooey that created the Broken Lands. But what if it was helped along by eruptions of Blackflame energy, feeding back all the way from Blackmoor?

Could the Broken Lands have been formed by some sort of blast from Blackmoor, scorching Ethengar along the way? Or was the blast directed back to Blackmoor, after which the device self-destructed (intentionally or not)?
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:58 pm

:o ... :cool:
RobJN wrote:The two areas line up fairly close along an axis pointing towards a proposed location to Lost Blackmoor.
The lower circle, which could be a spot where the Hinfolk's cavern of Blackflame is, lines up ... kinda close to where the Gate of Light could have been along an axis to Blackmoor.
Another fun fact, but the Azcan/Intua Great Plateau is also supposed to be fairly close to the Spirit world with a lot of bleed through.... and it also happens to lay fairly close to the line you drew through the Broken Lands and Black Sands.
RobJN wrote:I suppose lining the Gate of Light and Blackmoor up perfectly would place the other end of that line somewhere along where the larger Taymora landmass used to sit?
Yes... it looks like it would end up smack dab in the midst of the Ierendi Islands... which would have been the seat of power for Ancient Taymora. I'm going to have to play around a bit more with some large maps to see what falls out, but I'm liking where this is leading.
RobJN wrote:We know there was significant activity along the southern Brunian continental shelf to pretty much sink the rest of Taymora, most likely as a result of the Ka-Blooey that created the Broken Lands. But what if it was helped along by eruptions of Blackflame energy, feeding back all the way from Blackmoor?
This is a distinct possibility. Hmmm... I'm now wondering if there could be a series of "physical lay-lines" created by the Blackmoorians that extended outwards from Blackmoor and into the rest of the world. Perhaps they would have used some automated drills (similar to the ones we use to bore out subway tubes, but on a much larger scale) in order to clear underground paths for their technomantic energy to travel along. Perhaps some of those automated systems still exist (and are either functioning or have entered some state of "hibernation") and might even be encountered by modern era Mystarans.

IIRC there is a fairly straight tunnel documented from the Broken Lands to the cursed dwarven city of Jhyrrad. I wonder if that would fall along any of the lines you have previously drawn? Again, I'll need a larger map to check that out. Another possibility could be that the Jhyrrad line is not one of the major ley lines, but instead an offshoot branch.
RobJN wrote:Could the Broken Lands have been formed by some sort of blast from Blackmoor, scorching Ethengar along the way? Or was the blast directed back to Blackmoor, after which the device self-destructed (intentionally or not)?
Another possibility (if we go with the ley-line route) is that the Brokenlands could have been a major stop for the ley-line power transfer, while the Land of Black Sands was simply a relay station that cracked a casing and "started leaking". :twisted:

Anyway, I'm not sure what the real answer should be, but these are all great possibilities!
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Havard » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:14 pm

This is a distinct possibility. Hmmm... I'm now wondering if there could be a series of "physical lay-lines" created by the Blackmoorians that extended outwards from Blackmoor and into the rest of the world
I *love* this idea! Not necessarily physical ones though, but ley lines from Old Blackmoor stretching across Mystara? That is just very cool :cool:

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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by RobJN » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:18 pm

I've thought quite a bit about ley-lines, having read of them in the RIFTS material, as well as a more modern take on them in the Dresden Files. It's tempting, and I spent some time today pouring over some maps, plotting out various "hot spots" on Thorn's Mystara, based on my own notes, as well as the material posted here. The cultures that arose from the ashes of the Great Rain of Fire in particular are fascinating, and have given me quite a bit of material to chew on for filling in some of the "gaps" where Daughters may have been active, either in the field or in the ruins of any number of Blackmoor colonies-- places Thorn and company could stumble upon, either by accident, or by Aurora or Silva's design. :twisted: (Though they may tend towards "good," they are part fey, and have a very wide streak of their mother's Chaotic nature).

I'll have to poke around on the intar-webs and see if there aren't some existing "ley line" maps to work with, to get an idea of how they might line up on Mystara. Incidentally, I have (somewhere on the ol' hard drive) a map of major meteor craters for the continental US. It makes for some interesting backwards-plotting onto Brun....

Thorn's Blackmoor has the Lightning Road network, which linked all the colonies together. It was rather immaterial, using quantum entanglement and dimensional folding rather than those pesky rails and cars. I think perhaps the next artifact to outline is a Lightning Road gateway....

Havard, Blackmoor would be a MAJORLY HUGE nexus point, if not a pure point of origin ;)
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Cthulhudrew » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:07 am

Chimpman wrote:IIRC there is a fairly straight tunnel documented from the Broken Lands to the cursed dwarven city of Jhyrrad. I wonder if that would fall along any of the lines you have previously drawn? Again, I'll need a larger map to check that out. Another possibility could be that the Jhyrrad line is not one of the major ley lines, but instead an offshoot branch.
There is indeed a tunnel leading from the Broken Lands to beneath Jhyrrad (IIRC, it was described as a dry river tunnel or something). It's how the city was overrun by orcs in times past. It is currently not accessible due to cave-ins, though (again, IIRC) it opens and closes with some irregularity; apparently that bit of geography isn't exactly stable.

It isn't documented physically on any map, but I've always assumed the tunnel that leads out of Yellow Orkia and branches off was the route that was most probable. Part of it heads up to South Gnollistan, the other part heads under the Khanates (and is presumably connected to the cave systems of the Sliktor orcs).
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Hugin » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:56 pm

The only issue with these lines is that they are being drawn on a flat map; on the sphere of the Mystaran globe, the lines will be different. (If that even matters to people.)

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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Tom Kalbfus » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:27 pm

The title of this thread is somewhat confusing as its not really a Historical Campaign set on our own Earth at sometime in the past. It is not "A Mighty Fortress" for example.

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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Chimpman » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:35 pm

Tom Kalbfus wrote:The title of this thread is somewhat confusing as its not really a Historical Campaign set on our own Earth at sometime in the past. It is not "A Mighty Fortress" for example.
It follows the conventions set forth by this sub-forum's posting instructions thread. Since we are in a Mystaran Sub-forun, the assumption should be that this is a Historical Mystaran setting (which it is).
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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by agathokles » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:23 pm

I definitely agree with Chimpman. Within the Mystara forum, it is only reasonable that "Historical" refers to the history of Mystara and not that of the real world.
"A Mighty Fortress" campaign would be off topic here, unless in specific contexts such as Laterre, which would OTOH need to be specified as such.

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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Havard » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:14 pm

While doing some research on some unrelated Blackmoor stuff, I came across something else the topic of Ley-lines. Perhaps we can borrow some tidbits from Greyhawk's Blackmoor:

Erik Mona:
Oerthmagic is a kind of natural magic that has something to do with the Land of Black Ice. It had never, to my knowledge, been mentioned prior to the LGG, and was more or less a throw-away reference for DMs to develop themselves. Something about Oerthmagic has a power over Iuz, and he will not move against Blackmoor because of it.
PSP:
But I think this is all of a kind, with the Oerthblood, ley lines, Dweornite, Helices, and other magical "substrates" hinted at by Carl Sargent in his works....as well as the magical substances mentioned in Greyhawk Ruins.

My theory:

There are pockets of magical stuff (think of it as "raw elemental magic") buried in the Oerth, like veins of ore.....joined together by "ley lines". The more concentrated this stuff is, the more special the place, like the Land of Black Ice, Causeway of Fiends, Blackstone, or beneath Castle Greyhawk. Perhaps this is the purpose of various stone circles marked by the Flannish Old Faith. Those in the know, such as various Archmages, Quasi-Deities, and Fiendish Magnates, seek these places out to control them and draw power from them. Sometimes the power proves their undoing....
Source: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... 4;qullan34;

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Re: Historical: Known World BC 1700, 8mph

Post by Chimpman » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:05 pm

Hmmm... that's a pretty interesting idea. I suppose we could grab a large map and just start marking down any points of interest - Broken Lands, Land of Black Sands, etc. I'm thinking places like the Gates of Fire in Norwold, and Honor Island, would also fit. Once we have all those points places (or as many as we can think of) then we can start figuring out where the ley lines might be. It would at least be a fun exercise, and it might suggest new locations of power.
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