The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

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Thenightgaunt
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The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by Thenightgaunt »

Ok, I was hoping that maybe I'd get a clear answer over here since its all vague references and "read the books" over at Candlekeep Forums. And to be honest, I'm a grad student working on an MBA, working full time and planning a wedding all at the same time so I won't have time to read those books for maybe 5 years.

So what is the Sundering?

I don't mean the book series and I don't mean the concept of trying to essentially fix the damage done in 4th ed with a big event. What I'd really like to know is, is there anything close to a clear answer regarding the whole Sundering event in the Forgotten Realms setting?

For instance, the Time of Troubles could be summarized as "Some evil gods PO'd the top god for the setting and every god was banished in avatar form to the world for a few months. A few gods fought and died but some adventurers saved the day and were deified as a result. And now a god's power is directly tied to the # of worshipers they have."

Could someone please give me a similar explanation for the Sundering if there is one or tell me if there isn't one yet?

Thanks

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by night_druid »

Honestly I'm not sure there is one just yet. I think it has to do with a separation of Toril and Aebir, which were 'in phase' together during the 4e era. Beyond that, I can't tell you much. I suppose you can hope that as the two worlds go out of phase, Toril will be restored geographically, but no telling what the final result will look like.
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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by True_Atlantean »

I'll have a go at this one.

Basically, Abeir and Toril coalesced into a single world during the 4e era, and now the universe is starting to right itself and the worlds are separating. It has already been stated that some things from Toril may chose to leave with Abeir and vice versa. Against this is the knowledge that Ao is considering a different approach to portfolios given the disrespect shown to Tablets of Fate during the Avatar crisis. In preparation, many of the gods are now investing agents on Abeir-Toril as their Chosen to forward their agenda in the hopes that they'll be more powerful once Ao finishes his restructure.
The Sundering focuses on the upheaval in the Realms from both a geographic standpoint and the war of faith (covert and overt) that is played out through the Chosen.

That wasn't probably as succinct as you wanted, but it might serve as an overview.

Hope this helps.
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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by Thenightgaunt »

Thanks y'all. That does help some.

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by Havard »

What exactly does the Forgotten Realms look like at the end of the Sundering Series?

Abeir and Toril have been separated again, but what about specifics?


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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by night_druid »

Havard wrote:What exactly does the Forgotten Realms look like at the end of the Sundering Series?

Abeir and Toril have been separated again, but what about specifics?
Unless is been revealed in the Tiamat adventure, I'm not sure there are many specifics. Clues and hints throughout many products, but without a setting book, its probably difficult to piece them together into a coherent 'vision' of what FR looks like right now. And I don't think we're due to get a setting book for a while.
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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by combatmedic »

It's interesting they choose to continue the meta-plot, instead of just rebooting the setting for 5E.

I'd have stripped it back to the material presented in AD&D 1E articles and products-- and not even used all of that.


Reduce NPC levels (as listed in early products), this way:

listed level is 9 or less= no change

listed level is greater than 9= subtract nine from level, divide the remainder by two, add nine for actual level. Do NOT round up fractions.

Example:
Elminster the Sage is listed as a Magic-User 26 (note the Gray Box doesn't list any of the stuff about Chosen, or multiclass, of 30th level ultra-power creep, though he's still vastly powerful at such a high level)

26 -9= 17

17 / 2 = 8.5

8.5+ 9= 17.5

Elminster the sage, Magic User 17th level

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by ScrivenerofDoom »

combatmedic wrote:It's interesting they choose to continue the meta-plot, instead of just rebooting the setting for 5E.

I'd have stripped it back to the material presented in AD&D 1E articles and products-- and not even used all of that. (snip)
Simply put, the novels are worth more than the TTRPG and so the timeline was advanced so that R A Salvatore's novels still took place in the official timeline. You've got to pander to the most valuable part of your IP, I suppose.

Personally, even though I have come to really like the 4E version of the Realms and even prefer it, I would also have wound the clock back to, say, 1375 DR which was the end of the 3.5E era. I think (as in, this is a subjective opinion based on anecdotal evidence) that this would have been the most popular choice - although a rollback to the OGB would come close - but that is among TTRPGers rather than fans of the novels.

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by combatmedic »

I'm not going to shell out any cash for 4E FR (I don't run 4E and I don't need another D&D campaign setting) but I'd happily play in it if somebody ran.

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by HobbitFan »

It's tough to give a useful answer on the Sundering becuase WOTc hasn't told us much themselves yet. We basically just have the Sundering novels and the adventures to go on.
The current state of the Realms is kinda up in the air.

It's a real failing of the current WOTC writers and game designers that they can't be bothered to even detail the setting used in their first two adventure paths.

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by combatmedic »

I'd imagine that the majority of DMs in the market for 5E adventure modules likely do not run games set in FR (or any other single setting, because so many people run homebrew games, other published settings, or mix and match-- no one setting has universal appeal).
I think that WoTc is simply using FR as a nominal setting for the modules.
WotC may offer more setting specific info for the 5E version of FR in future releases, but putting much of that in early modules could turn off people who want generic, easy to plug-n-play stuff.


I can see why some FR fans who really want to see a full 5E version of the setting might be disappointed by this approach.


I think WotC would do well to appeal to as a wide a market as possible with its early 5E releases.

All IMHO and YMMV, natch.

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by HobbitFan »

I get what you are saying. And you are right. Alot of people do homebrew.

Why not make the first adventures truly generic then and not set them in any campaign setting?

I think it was easier for them to use the Realms. They don't have to make as much up and have the benefit of an established name and fan base.

And it would have been fine at any other time except right after the 4E mess and the Sundering.

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by Havard »

I agree that it makes sense to focus on generic D&D modules so that you can appeal both to FR fans and D&D fans who prefer other settings (Homebrewed or published). OTOH, it is a confusing strategy since the modules are so closely tied to the Forgotten Realms anyway so adapting them to an established setting other than the FR requires quite a bit of work.

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by combatmedic »

All good points, guys.

In any event, I wish WotC the best of luck with 5E and with their new FR iteration.

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by ScrivenerofDoom »

HobbitFan wrote: (snip) It's a real failing of the current WOTC writers and game designers that they can't be bothered to even detail the setting used in their first two adventure paths.
Yeah. They made it difficult for the authors of HotDQ and RoT to ground those two adventures into the new version of the setting as they had nothing to show them insofar as a new setting bible.

The annoying thing is that the material exists because Ed has already written a lot of it but the skeleton crew at WotC don't have the manpower to top'n'tail that stuff with a fonts, a logo, and credits....

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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by barrataria »

Pardon the necro... but this is a good post!
combatmedic wrote:
Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:54 pm
It's interesting they choose to continue the meta-plot, instead of just rebooting the setting for 5E.

I'd have stripped it back to the material presented in AD&D 1E articles and products-- and not even used all of that.


Reduce NPC levels (as listed in early products), this way:

listed level is 9 or less= no change

listed level is greater than 9= subtract nine from level, divide the remainder by two, add nine for actual level. Do NOT round up fractions.

Example:
Elminster the Sage is listed as a Magic-User 26 (note the Gray Box doesn't list any of the stuff about Chosen, or multiclass, of 30th level ultra-power creep, though he's still vastly powerful at such a high level)

26 -9= 17

17 / 2 = 8.5

8.5+ 9= 17.5

Elminster the sage, Magic User 17th level
I am thinking of mining the OGB for a campaign, and I was thinking of something like this, a conversion formula. For my kind of campaign (ie. ignoring all the NPC blurbs about which Mary Sue wanders the region helping good creatures etc) I'll want/need to reduce all the NPCs listed. Anyway thanks for this tidbit!
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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by Coronoides »

For completeness it is worth noting that “The Sundering” can refer to two different events in the FR history. The other one was when the elves over-reached with magic to create an elf homeland island. The result was a disaster that smashed the super continent into the current continents in a series of world wide earthquakes and tsunamis.
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Re: The Sundering: simply put, what is it?

Post by Zeromaru X »

In fact, there are three Sunderings. The "Original Sundering" is the event known as the Tearfall by "candlekeep scholars" (the twining of Abeir-Toril). Then, the one you mention, the First Sundering that created Evermeet. And lastly the Second (and last) Sundering.

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