Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

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Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:50 pm

Image
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Hi guys!

I've been working on a map of the Plane of Fire in the Mystara cosmology. What do you think of using the Known World/Prime Plane to illustrate "coastlines" for the elemental planes as well? I could see this been controversial. My main idea was to pin point some of the connection points between Mystara and the Plane of Fire. I also wanted to illustrate some of the official Fire Elemental Realms and locations like the City of Brass. I took things a bit further and added some references to other races as well as some planar connections that are not really official, but simply my own speculation.


Realms
Amber Dragons: In my campaign I am making a Amber Dragons and Brown Dragons two separate types of Dragon. Amber Dragons often make their homes on the Plane of Fire.
Southern Fire Elemental Empire: This is one of a number of realms controlled by Fire Elemental Rulers. This realm is mainly populated by Fire Elementals.
Salamander Kingdoms: Does Mystara's cosmology have Fire Salamanders? In BECMI only Frost Salamanders ( a uniquely Mystaran species) exist. It would seem likely that a Fire equivalent would also be found on the Plane of Fire though.
Fundamental Realm: These creatures are only a set of bodiless wings. Should they even have their own lands? Perhaps it is more of a wilderness than an actual realm.
Pyrophor Coastlands: These entities are extremely chaotic and destructive. It seems likely that their kingdom is as well. BTW, typo will be fixed on next update.
Plains of Mist: Several gates to the Plane of Water exist in this region.
Phoenix Plains: These fiery steppes are home to several of the most powerful of firebirds.
Elemental Drakes: Again, i wasn't sure. Should Elemental Drakes have their own realm, or do they infiltrate the realms of Fire Elementals the way other drakes live among humans, demihumans etc?
Efreeti Emirates: Several powerful Amirs rule this realm. Their capital is the City of Brass.
Helion Philosopher States: Helions are described to be peaceful philosphers. So I imagine their lands similar to the old greek city states.
Fire Crab Islands: Fire Crabs are a new creature. They are identical to Frost Crabs, but aligned with the element of Fire. These creatures make their home on these islands.

Locations
Arch of Fire: We know this location from Norwold. But what does it look like on the other side? This would be one of the major access points from the Plane of Fire to Mystara. I could imagine several factions battling for command of this area.
Fey Courts Colony: It would seem likely that the Fey have a presence on most planes. I'd place their colony relative to the Isle of Dawn. I've been toying with the idea of unique Fire Sprites who are adapted to live on this plane.
Three Volcanoes Area: Another area with links between Mystara and the Plane of Fire.
Ordo Elementarum Outpost: A lost outpost of mages who descend from the Blackmoor era.
Rathanos Follower Colony: These followers of Rathanos have found a way to survive on the Plane of Fire for centuries.
Gnome Exploration Station: Gnomes from Highforge have built a structure that has allowed them to exist and explore this plane safely from within a metallic orb-like structure.
City of Brass: Home of the Efreeti, this city was important since the time of Al-Kalim. Speaking of which, how important was Al-Kalim on this plane? (See Gaz2)
Honor Island Mage Fortress: See Gaz4 for details.
Sollux Stronghold: The Sun Brothers (Brethren?) have been waging a war against the Efreeti since before the Age of Blackmoor. They hail from Mystara, but they have several strongholds on the Plane of Fire. See also this discussion of the origin of the Sollux.

Some inspiration for this concept comes from this discussion in the Piazza Planescape forum. Denizens for the Plane of Fire are pulled from this thread, though I also added some realms for creatures like Fire and Amber Dragons who are not really native the the Plane of Fire, but may easily be found there.

Input about the map is welcome, but also feel free to comment on how you see the Plane of Fire and what realms you could imagine being found there. :)




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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Big Mac » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:39 am

I love the fact that you have things like volcanoes on your map.

I don't know the map of Mystara's Known World too well, but have you turned the areas of the Plane of Fire that correspond to seas into colder regions (or hotter ones)? Would you put bronze ships sailing on seas of fire there?
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by ripvanwormer » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:52 am

That's great, Havard! That's exactly how a map of the Known World's equivalent on the Plane of Fire should look, in my opinion. I like that you put the City of Brass in the region corresponding to Ylaruam.

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Robin » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:02 pm

Havard wrote:Image
(click to enlarge)

Hi guys!

I've been working on a map of the Plane of Fire in the Mystara cosmology. What do you think of using the Known World/Prime Plane to illustrate "coastlines" for the elemental planes as well? I could see this been controversial. My main idea was to pin point some of the connection points between Mystara and the Plane of Fire. I also wanted to illustrate some of the official Fire Elemental Realms and locations like the City of Brass. I took things a bit further and added some references to other races as well as some planar connections that are not really official, but simply my own speculation.


Some inspiration for this concept comes from this discussion in the Piazza Planescape forum. Denizens for the Plane of Fire are pulled from this thread, though I also added some realms for creatures like Fire and Amber Dragons who are not really native the the Plane of Fire, but may easily be found there.

Input about the map is welcome, but also feel free to comment on how you see the Plane of Fire and what realms you could imagine being found there. :)


-Havard
Awesome map :mrgreen: ...now only make some of the others :P

Some information you might find interesting :ugeek:
As according to canon, it is almost unsaid, but the Elemental Planes are thus near to the Prime Plane (belonging to the Inner Planes) they are affected by the same Elemental Rules as the Prime Plane, but in a much lower degree of intensity.

From the Rules encyclopedia (but my additions are Bleu)
Each elemental plane is a universe much like the Prime Plane, but all the material is a dominant element. The elemental matter collects in clumps (planets, moons, etc.); it can exist in solid, liquid, or gaseous or energetic form. For instance, in the elemental plane of Water, the atmosphere is an unbreatheably thick fog, the seas are made of water, and all land, solid objects, and even solid creatures are made of ice—ice which may be so hard and imperishable that it resembles crystal and does not melt in warm temperatures.
The strange creatures of the elemental planes are mixtures of solid and liquid material, held together by a life force of thought and energy (much like creatures on the Prime Plane). When a planet exists on an elemental plane in roughly the same "position" as a planet on the Prime Plane, natural vortexes and wormholes appear, connecting the planets on each plane. Thus, for the "normal" D&D world, there are four other planes in similar positions, one on each of the elemental planes. Other planets in the Prime universe might not have corresponding elemental planets; another world might thus be missing one or more elements.
Components of the Elemental Planes Table
[b]Type or Component[/b]|[b]Elemental Plane of Air[/b]|[b]Elemental Plane of Earth[/b]|[b]Elemental Plane of Fire[/b]|[b]Elemental Plane of Water[/b] Atmosphere|Air|Dust or Soil|Plasma, [color=#0000FF]Electrical clouds[/color]| Fog, Airy Water Liquids|Invisible Airy Liquid[color=#0000FF](or quicksilver like)[/color]|Mud, Oil or [color=#0000FF]cool[/color] Lava|Liquified Fire or Lava|Normal Water Solids| Solid Clouds|Earth or Stone| Solidified Fire| Crystaline Ice, [color=#0000FF]Ice[/color] [color=#0000FF]Energetic[/color]| [color=#0000FF]Hot waves or magic[/color]| [color=#0000FF]Fiery Magma or Heat waves[/color]| [color=#0000FF]fiery sun[/color]| [color=#0000FF]Bright Boiling Water[/color]
Energy Would be thus similar on all the Elemental Planes, but probably visually much larger on the Plane of Fire and smaller on the Plane of Water, On Air, and Earth it would be about equal
Electrical, and waves would be near to equal on all Planes, but may be more visible on the Earth and Fire Planes
The creatures would thus be composed more or less similar. Bones as Solids, Veins as liquids, Food channel as Air, but the energy (nerves, brain) would be mostly electrical with the brain as a mixture. You would be able to find elemental creatures adapted to the elemental shape of that plane...i.e. Earth Elemental fish= Lava fish, Air elemental Tree= like trees, Water Elemental rodent= living ON land, etc
There would thus be an Elemental Sun, moon, and the movements and effects would be similar to the Prime Plane
The most living mater would be Elemental Plantlife of which only a few would be somewhat recognizable similar to the Prime Plane,

Food =energy would be similar to the Prime Plane...a Sun-like object would direct energy to plant-like objects, which would be eaten by animal like objects, which would be eaten by Plant like objects, and you have the basics of an ecological system.
The void between Planets would be similar...being void. Some elemental planets might or might Not exist on relative positions to Prime Plane Planets. The more towards the Astral Boundary=the further away from the Prime, the more often this will happen.
Elemental in the Prime plane desire the same food as on their respective Planes. Earth Elementals would thus crave crystal like plants. Medusae(as being a predator) craves biomatter discharching the other elements by petrification), Water Elementals would thus feed on crops of elemental Algea. etc.
As thus if you reflect the prime Plane map to the other elements, the contours would be similar, but Water Elementals would be concentrated in the water, and the land being least interesing to them. Fire elementals would be mainly concentrated on the land like you proposed, Earth elementals would concentrated similar as Prime Planes mostly ON land(but often live more within than on (hence their phasing ability), air elementals would on the "land" too, but also high above it.
Personally I assume them being able to fly through many clouds in another direction than the gravity pull, but on it with the gravity Pull. They would however do so only on known routes or research, as thus the might even be able to view the Hollow World of their own, where it not the energy based Worldshield in between(which to them would be a wall of hot energy instead of fire.
The gravity pull on these Planes is similar to the Prime plane

All these Inner Planes have connection to the Dimensions of Limbo (upon Death), Fairy Realm, among others.

Nice other easily adaptable material;(especially to find elemental creatures :lol: )
Manual of the Planes (TSR 2022) (this being the most adaptable to Mystara!! :mrgreen: with one major difference Plane of Earth is NOT a solid Plane, but shape like the prime, as described above. many Elementals however, are able to Phase into the ground and reside there. As thus caves, tunnels, will exist enabling most other creatures to traverse where they will.
BUT keep in mind the D&D version does NOT encompass the Quasi Elemental Planes, These do not exist, and are Ethereal Plane instead, or Elemental Plane. Similar to the Quasi-elemental, negative and positive planes. Neither of these do exist on Mystara.
Other interesting
AD&D2 OP1 Tales of the Outer Planes Multi Levels of Set games
AD&D2 Planescape - The Inner Planes,

The planes are aranged in a very simple way.
Imagine 5 large marbles (one multi colered/green (Prime), one Red(Fire), One blue(water), one White/yellow (air), one Brown(matter)and a ball just as wide as three marbles in line. Place the Prime Plane ball inside, and the Elemental ones around that one, fill the ball with grey slime (resembling Ether). As the ball is closed, and the elemental planes always keep the same distance from oneanother around the Prime Plane due to Gravity issues, there is movement possible around the Prime, but the relative positions are always fixed. This would thus explain temporarily Elemental Gates (open when near, closed when far). As the Ethereal plane is chaotic, this pattern is very difficult to discern.
If you would place other objects around it, underneath and above, you would be able to imagine thus the Outer Planes.
Maybe indead like in AD&D2 the most near would form a sort of ring attached to the Ball(the ball being the Astral Boundary). Imagine the most nearby Outer Planes (in whatever shape) as sort of competing to keep near as possible to the Ball(with inside the Prime Plane). Thus the Elemental Ring of AD&D2 would NOT be a ring but several nearby Outer Planes more or les evenly aranged outside the inner Planes ball. the further away, the more distance between the outer Planes.Example AD&D2 Hades, with its chaitic 666 layers would be a weird clump attached with only a single Plabe to the inner Plane ball. Twin Paradises(2 planes) would be a oreo like plane swirling on its edge attached to the Inner Ball. Between this mass you would seem hundreds of vortices, of which a few haf grown into planes themselves(Yggdrasil would thus resemble roots growing between the planes, Styxx would thus slither like a stream between the Lower ones, and a large glob of water would be between a few upper outer Planes(being Oceanus).
I would even go thus far that the Elemental Planes and their relative position dictates the location of several Outer Planes (chaotics more near to Energy and Lawfuls more near to Matter for example. As thus the elemental makeup of outer Planes would also be affected or even dictated in one way or another on the composition of said plane. as thus it is possible a type of element will be less available or extremely rare not at all (for example An outer Plane could have no liquid elemental shape Which is water based, as thus it would also have no time and being an planar prison. more often any plane holds the same elemental shapes and energetic forms as on the inner planes, but rarely in a balanced form as the inner planes. It could be an outer plane thus affects time/energy/matter/thought completely different than any other plane due its composition.


Adjusted Table on Havard's advise...and it works :roll: :mrgreen: Thanx
Last edited by Robin on Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:37 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Carillion » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:54 pm

Hello Harvard,

I'm impressed with your map, and particularly with the inclusion of the City of Brass and its location!

Having parts of Mystara being mirrored in other planes is completely in keeping with canon material as well - for example, the sphere of entropy's Isle of Night in module M5 was a smaller copy of the Isle of Dawn. On that note, is your map of the Plane of Fire the same size as the corresponding part of Mystara, or is it bigger or smaller?

Also, can you elaborate on the "Ordo Elementarum" mentioned on your map?

Regards,

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:55 pm

Wow! Lots of feedback!

I have been offline most of the day, but I will try to respond to all of these in a single post! :)
Big Mac wrote:I love the fact that you have things like volcanoes on your map.
Thanks! Those are actually the locations of volcanoes in the Known World. I suppose they might also look like volcanoes on the side of the Plane of Fire, but I assume most of them contain wormholes or gates to the Prime Plane.

I don't know the map of Mystara's Known World too well, but have you turned the areas of the Plane of Fire that correspond to seas into colder regions (or hotter ones)? Would you put bronze ships sailing on seas of fire there?
The coastline corresponds to that of the Known World. Beyond that I made the seas into lava seas, though I suppose they could also be on fire. I really like the idea of ships sailing on those seas. beyond that I am not sure that the climate or temperature should necessarily be affected with whats going on on the Prime Plane. IMO the planes only influence eachother near nexuses, wormholes and gates. At least that is what I have been working from so far.

You will note that the Known World's famous lake, Lake Amsorak corresponds to the Plains of Steam. Here I actually suggest multiple gates between the Elemental Plane of Fire and the Plane of Water.

ripvanwormer wrote:That's great, Havard! That's exactly how a map of the Known World's equivalent on the Plane of Fire should look, in my opinion. I like that you put the City of Brass in the region corresponding to Ylaruam.
Thank you! That means alot coming from a Planescape expert like you Rip! :) The City of Brass actually corresponds directly to the City of Ylaruam.


Robin wrote:Awesome map :mrgreen: ...now only make some of the others :P
Thank you! Haha, I have maps for the other elemental planes in the works, though I need to do a bit more research on those first. Thanks for the added details! This will come in handy as i continue with this project! :)

Carillion wrote:Hello Havard,
I'm impressed with your map, and particularly with the inclusion of the City of Brass and its location!
Thank you so much! :)

Having parts of Mystara being mirrored in other planes is completely in keeping with canon material as well - for example, the sphere of entropy's Isle of Night in module M5 was a smaller copy of the Isle of Dawn.
Yes, that is a good point. There is already a precedence for this.
On that note, is your map of the Plane of Fire the same size as the corresponding part of Mystara, or is it bigger or smaller?
I'm assuming the same size for the two. The map I used as the basis for this includes Sind, the Adri Varma, Wendar and Heldann so that might be why it looks a little bigger than the Expert Set Known World map.
Also, can you elaborate on the "Ordo Elementarum" mentioned on your map?
Ah yes, well spotted :)

The Ordo Elementarum is an organization from the D20 Dave Arneson's Blackmoor sourcebook. They are an order of Elementalist Wizards who rejected Blackmoor's technology and have explored the planes. The main reason why they might still be around is because they have been known to stay on planes where time moves differently than on the Prime Plane. Also their rejection of Blackmoor's technology could mean that they would not have been subject to any purge of Blackmoorians from the planes by the Immortals. Alternately, this could simply be an abandoned stronghold. The location here is fairly arbitrary by the way.

I will post some more details on the other locations later on! :)

-Havard

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by JamesMishler » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:19 am

Super sweet! Where's the "Like" button for this?

Love this idea and the way the elemental planes are presented with it!

One map for each element... plus one for Death/Entropy... could easily be tent-poles for a Mystaran "adventure path" through the five planes to reconstruct an artifact ("The Super-Elemental MacGuffin of Five Parts") that keeps the elements in balance on the Prime Plane... go to all five planes, find the parts, re-assemble the MacGuffin, or the Prime Plane flies apart into elemental bits (or at least, Mystara does)...

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by RobJN » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:23 am

Just do like they did in the old 8- and 16-bit video games, Havard -- change out the color palette and swap out some names, and it's all good ;)
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Yaztromo » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:30 am

Lovely job!!!
I'd put some more reference related to the Flaemish people in Glantri.
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:37 pm

JamesMishler wrote:Super sweet! Where's the "Like" button for this?

Love this idea and the way the elemental planes are presented with it!
Thank you very much! Oh and Hi James, great seeing you back here at the Piazza old friend! :)
:)
One map for each element... plus one for Death/Entropy... could easily be tent-poles for a Mystaran "adventure path" through the five planes to reconstruct an artifact ("The Super-Elemental MacGuffin of Five Parts") that keeps the elements in balance on the Prime Plane... go to all five planes, find the parts, re-assemble the MacGuffin, or the Prime Plane flies apart into elemental bits (or at least, Mystara does)...
That is a great idea! One of the reasons why I didn't use the Elemental Planes more than I did in my campaigns is because there weren't all that many reasons for PCs to go there. This very simple adventure idea is brilliant. Now all we need is a cool name for the MacGuffin artifact!

Working on those other maps! :)

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:39 pm

RobJN wrote:Just do like they did in the old 8- and 16-bit video games, Havard -- change out the color palette and swap out some names, and it's all good ;)
Image :lol: :lol:

But yeah, that is what I am doing ;)
Yaztromo wrote:Lovely job!!!
I'd put some more reference related to the Flaemish people in Glantri.
Thanks! A reference to the Flaem is a great idea. Any suggestions where to put it exactly? One of the major Flaem cities perhaps? Would there still be Flaems there, or just an abandoned ruin?

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by RobJN » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:13 pm

Havard wrote:
JamesMishler wrote:
One map for each element... plus one for Death/Entropy... could easily be tent-poles for a Mystaran "adventure path" through the five planes to reconstruct an artifact ("The Super-Elemental MacGuffin of Five Parts") that keeps the elements in balance on the Prime Plane... go to all five planes, find the parts, re-assemble the MacGuffin, or the Prime Plane flies apart into elemental bits (or at least, Mystara does)...
That is a great idea! One of the reasons why I didn't use the Elemental Planes more than I did in my campaigns is because there weren't all that many reasons for PCs to go there. This very simple adventure idea is brilliant. Now all we need is a cool name for the MacGuffin artifact!

Working on those other maps! :)
Well, I've got this thing lurking in the ruins of Archlis, called The Eye of Storms that could easily have several more "modes" of use, each using a dragonstone to pull its like-element from the elemental plane. Rather than retrieving the MacGuffin, you have to sever the link -- at the Elemental Plane end -- in order to shut down the Eye, which is wreaking havoc on the Prime.

Firestorms consuming Floating Ar...
Hurricanes over Glantri...
Sandstorms raging across Ylaruam and/or the Great Wastes of Sind...
Earthquakes rippling along the mountain chains of the entire planet...
Fogs and mists turned black, turning all they touch into undead variants.....
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Yaztromo » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:46 pm

Havard wrote: Thanks! A reference to the Flaem is a great idea. Any suggestions where to put it exactly? One of the major Flaem cities perhaps? Would there still be Flaems there, or just an abandoned ruin?
I think this requires a little bit of thought. I'd say that I expect some connection / gate to be up and running permanently in Glantri, in the Flaemish dominions / principality, but as you say, there may be other connections still open in the previous places (including connetcions to other dimensions and even fire planes) where Flaemish dwelled before (probably abandoned ruins, or perhaps hidden places closely guarded by high-rank Flaems or by magic creatures left behind) and this might enable a grand campaign to recover the lost roots and power of the Flaemish nation. A bit of Flaemish version of the quest for the Tree of Life that involves planar traveling to the planes of fires of Mystara and of other planets and dimensions as well!
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:10 pm

Before I comment on the posts above, I wanted to write down some details on each of the locations marked on the map. Here's what I have so far:

Edit: moved this information to the first post of this thread.


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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Robin » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:00 pm

Havard wrote: Salamander Kingdoms: Does Mystara's cosmology have Fire Salamanders? In BECMI only Frost Salamanders ( a uniquely Mystaran species) exist. It would seem likely that a Fire equivalent would also be found on the Plane of Fire though.
No these are simple 8 legged reptile like creatures....but that does not prevent to use the AD&D2 versions (You have to adjust them to D&D stats however, according Rules encyclopedia). I would then also use the AD&D2 fire snakes, and name the AD&D2 fire slamanders "Fire Slamanders" instead, this could be their own name...wrongly pronounced on the Prime, making it into Salamander...hence the confusion, amongst adventurers.
Havard wrote:Fundamental Realm: These creatures are only a set of bodiless wings. Should they even have their own lands? Perhaps it is more of a wilderness than an actual realm.
Fundamentals are more like birdss, the spread far, and wide.
Havard wrote:Pyrophor Coastlands: These entities are extremely chaotic and destructive. It seems likely that their kingdom is as well. BTW, typo will be fixed on next update.
I am interested in these...stats??
Havard wrote:Plains of Mist: Several gates to the Plane of Water exist in this region.
Although there is nothing written to prevent gates between the inner Planes, this is the first time used. Normally you need to enter the Ethereal Plane first, and then traverse to the Plane desired and enter it.The amount of inflowing water from ingoing gates must be very large not to explode violently in steam. Maybe a nearby Air elemental outward gate somewhere above might suck up the steam. keeping it limited only to this region.
Havard wrote:Phoenix Plains: These fiery steppes are home to several of the most powerful of firebirds.
Nice, specially as the two phoenix species (small and Large need way different amounts of feeding areas. (I presume they are seed/plant (maybe insect) eaters, as thus they need large areas to feed themselves, thus limiting their number against rivalling elemental creatures. thus enabling a fire elemental ecology . :ugeek: :P
Havard wrote:Elemental Drakes: Again, i wasn't sure. Should Elemental Drakes have their own realm, or do they infiltrate the realms of Fire Elementals the way other drakes live among humans, demihumans etc?
As far as I remember Elemental Drakes were normal Drakes, which have travelled to the inner planes like so many fairies, but these landed on the elemental Planes (hence their number is originally lower than all drakes on the Prime and especially the Fairy realm). I think that they live hidden in the Elemental world like the fairies do in the Prime.
Havard wrote:Efreeti Emirates: Several powerful Amirs rule this realm. Their capital is the City of Brass.
nice
Havard wrote:Helion Philosopher States: Helions are described to be peaceful philosphers. So I imagine their lands similar to the old greek city states.
that was my idea too. :o
Havard wrote:Fire Crab Islands: Fire Crabs are a new creature. They are identical to Frost Crabs, but aligned with the element of Fire. These creatures make their home on these islands.
nice, would their statistics be the same? what special features abilities they would have as elemental adaptation. I would see them as a sort of coast rodent.

By the way,. The seas could be burning ether(temperatures 1000 degrees celsius i believe to remember, hotter than oil at least), with a plasma bottom deep down...and oil like drab as weeds, tentacled oil as plants....this way you still have the "seas effect". under ether (lol like under water) adapted living creatures and plants would suffocate above the liquid, but also light aflame. Lava fish (a river species) would do the same (but not on the Prime Plane (they can be found in the lava rivers in the Broken Lands)

Locations
Havard wrote:Arch of Fire: We know this location from Norwold. But what does it look like on the other side? This would be one of the major access points from the Plane of Fire to Mystara. I could imagine several factions battling for command of this area.
As far as I remember indeed several fure creatures settled on the Prime side, as thus they would be on the fire side too, probably battling.
Havard wrote:Fey Courts Colony: It would seem likely that the Fey have a presence on most planes. I'd place their colony relative to the Isle of Dawn. I've been toying with the idea of unique Fire Sprites who are adapted to live on this plane.
I am battling with pdf making of the next chapters of the monster manual compilation (constructs and Fairykin), but there are such said creatures as far as I remember. I'll inform you (and anybody else) when the pdf acrobat problem is resolved.
Havard wrote:Three Volcanoes Area: Another area with links between Mystara and the Plane of Fire.
It could be that the Megalith,(the Planet) lives in all inner planes simultaneously (hence its lack of interest in moving) and needs them all to sustain/heal itself. (as I proposed in my blog on the Megalith) that the creature is dead, could also mean it is dying or healing, and thus needing the planes.
Havard wrote:Ordo Elementarum Outpost: A lost outpost of mages who descend from the Blackmoor era
Without technology i assume?.
Havard wrote:Rathanos Follower Colony: These followers of Rathanos have found a way to survive on the Plane of Fire for centuries.
Would these be aligned with the fire magians underground Ylaruam?
Havard wrote:Gnome Exploration Station: Gnomes from Highforge have built a structure that has allowed them to exist and explore this plane safely from within a metallic orb-like structure.
Never ever underestimate the inginuity of Gnomes or Kobolds. The latter Would be able(don't know willing) to do the same.
City of Brass: Home of the Efreeti, this city was important since the time of Al-Kalim. Speaking of which, how important was Al-Kalim on this plane? (See Gaz2)
I believe a whole AD&D2 adventure/mosule was written about this city...
Havard wrote:Honor Island Mage Fortress: See Gaz4 for details.
Yes this is an interesting find
Havard wrote:-Havard
The AD&D2 guides I advised earlier in this post have a few lists inside giving more creatures, thus enabling a more living/vivid ecology
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by religon » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:50 pm

I did something similar with the Nightmare Dimension… a map that was a perversion of the regular map. One change I made was altering the scale. I made the Nightmare Dimension 100 times larger (10:1 linear ratio). This accommodates all the souls of the dead.

Changing scaling ratios could be used for elemental planes.

An idea for the Ethereal Plane is that the linear scale is 1/10 that of the Prime Plane. Travel through the Ether is a shortcut.

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Robin » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:36 pm

religon wrote:I did something similar with the Nightmare Dimension… a map that was a perversion of the regular map. One change I made was altering the scale. I made the Nightmare Dimension 100 times larger (10:1 linear ratio). This accommodates all the souls of the dead.

Changing scaling ratios could be used for elemental planes.

An idea for the Ethereal Plane is that the linear scale is 1/10 that of the Prime Plane. Travel through the Ether is a shortcut.
Nice idea...

Some remarks though :? ....according Canon the Nightmare Dimension is the 5th dimension as opposed to ours (Rules encyclopedia, Creature Catalog 1-2, AD&D2 Mystara compendium) and is NOT a realm of spirits. :shock:
the Nightmare Dimension is insanity to us as is our dimension (thus not Plane!!) to them. Magic can't affect another.
The dream Masters of Glantri are the only specialists in "invading" the Nightmare Dimension :o As thus i would imagine a Prime Plane Masters magic guild existing in the Nightmare Dimension. That both dimensions would have similar maps, would seem possible, but an opposite version of the map would seem as logical (as far Nightmare Dimension chaos can be logic ) as the order in our realm is to them.try to imagine up and down reversed, in and out, left and right, etc. empty space and solid world to solid space and empty worlds passing through inside. Mystara with its Hollow World would thus seem a large Hole with inside a sphere, surrounded by several weird connected structures passing through a layer of Ice. (i.e the caves and the world Shield.).
Weird enough?? life would thus life in the solidness of the opposed dimension. :o :ugeek:


Limbo (from Bruce Heard's article in Dragon magazine) is the realm where the souls go before going further to an Outer Plane for eternal rest or return to the Prime Planefor reincarnation, something completely different. The 5th dimension/the Nightmare Dimension would have its own elemental Planes and own Limbo. :o

Coming back to your sizes; Very good idea. :o :D As far as the Elemental Planes these are as large as the Prime Plane(thus travelling from one side to another would always be equal), but as I tried to explain the Ethereal Plane is just as wide as the diameter of the Prime Plane and Two Elemental Planes on each opposing sides. The placements of the Elemental Planes around the Prime Plane would resemble the 4 points of a 4 sided dice, with the Prime in the Middle, and around this a globe 3 times as wide as the Prime (to encompass the diameters of 2 elemental and Prime ) this is the Ethereal., the wall of this ball is the Astral Border. and the Outer Planes are attached to that. :ugeek:

The good thing of your idea :lol: :mrgreen: is that the size in the Etereal Plane could also well be as equal to the other Inner Planes. As thus the internal sizes would be not 1/10th but 1/3rd. :geek:
This means travelling from the Prime through an Elemental Plane to the other Side touching the Astral Border, would be as far as travelling from one side of the Astral Border to the other side through the Ethereal Plane without entering any of the Inner Planes. :ugeek:
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Yaztromo » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:46 pm

religon wrote:I did something similar with the Nightmare Dimension…
:o now you stirred my curiosity and have to show it off (in a dedicated thread...) :cool:
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:00 pm

Robin wrote:
Havard wrote: Salamander Kingdoms: Does Mystara's cosmology have Fire Salamanders? In BECMI only Frost Salamanders ( a uniquely Mystaran species) exist. It would seem likely that a Fire equivalent would also be found on the Plane of Fire though.
No these are simple 8 legged reptile like creatures....but that does not prevent to use the AD&D2 versions (You have to adjust them to D&D stats however, according Rules encyclopedia). I would then also use the AD&D2 fire snakes, and name the AD&D2 fire slamanders "Fire Slamanders" instead, this could be their own name...wrongly pronounced on the Prime, making it into Salamander...hence the confusion, amongst adventurers.
Ah, you are right. BECMI does have Flame Salamanders (the snake like ones). Your suggestions seem good enough. I suppose this realm could be home to all of them.
Havard wrote:Fundamental Realm: These creatures are only a set of bodiless wings. Should they even have their own lands? Perhaps it is more of a wilderness than an actual realm.
Fundamentals are more like birdss, the spread far, and wide.
Well that is true. I could remove them from the map. But perhaps this is a region they keep returning to? Like migrating birds?
Havard wrote:Pyrophor Coastlands: These entities are extremely chaotic and destructive. It seems likely that their kingdom is as well. BTW, typo will be fixed on next update.
I am interested in these...stats??
They are 5' radius balls of flaming coal. They appear in the AD&D Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix.
Havard wrote:Plains of Mist: Several gates to the Plane of Water exist in this region.
Although there is nothing written to prevent gates between the inner Planes, this is the first time used. Normally you need to enter the Ethereal Plane first, and then traverse to the Plane desired and enter it.The amount of inflowing water from ingoing gates must be very large not to explode violently in steam. Maybe a nearby Air elemental outward gate somewhere above might suck up the steam. keeping it limited only to this region.
I borrowed this idea from the Forgotten Realms wiki. Perhaps wormholes are more appropriate in the Mentzer cosmology? I do like the idea of connection points between the Elemental Planes.

Havard wrote:Phoenix Plains: These fiery steppes are home to several of the most powerful of firebirds.
Nice, specially as the two phoenix species (small and Large need way different amounts of feeding areas. (I presume they are seed/plant (maybe insect) eaters, as thus they need large areas to feed themselves, thus limiting their number against rivalling elemental creatures. thus enabling a fire elemental ecology . :ugeek: :P
Are Greater and Lesser Phoenixes two different species or simply different stages of age for the same creature? In any case there could be one or at the maxiumum two Greater Phoenixes in this region. I envision smaller firebirds there as well. Simply use stats for Hawks, Ravens, Crows, Magpies etc from the Creature Catalog and assume immunity to fire. And what is their diet? Indeed. I could see "Fireflies", huge fiery insects being the food of these things. Stuff one doesnt really think too much about this. :)
Havard wrote:Elemental Drakes: Again, i wasn't sure. Should Elemental Drakes have their own realm, or do they infiltrate the realms of Fire Elementals the way other drakes live among humans, demihumans etc?
As far as I remember Elemental Drakes were normal Drakes, which have travelled to the inner planes like so many fairies, but these landed on the elemental Planes (hence their number is originally lower than all drakes on the Prime and especially the Fairy realm). I think that they live hidden in the Elemental world like the fairies do in the Prime.
I have given this some thought and at least IMC, Drakes are Dragonkin first. However they have been mixed with other races for so long that they have inherited their properties, so while Woodrakes are Fey, I dont consider the other subtypes related to Fey at all. I still think there could be an Elemental Drake Kingdom, but perhaps it is a secret kingdom, similar to Herath?

Havard wrote:Helion Philosopher States: Helions are described to be peaceful philosphers. So I imagine their lands similar to the old greek city states.
that was my idea too. :o
Thanks! Great minds I guess? :)
Havard wrote:Fire Crab Islands: Fire Crabs are a new creature. They are identical to Frost Crabs, but aligned with the element of Fire. These creatures make their home on these islands.
nice, would their statistics be the same? what special features abilities they would have as elemental adaptation. I would see them as a sort of coast rodent.
I have not statted them out yet, but I would start with Frost Crab stats and go from there yeah. Coastal rodent types makes sense. Their claws might be sought after for weapons, tools or art.

By the way,. The seas could be burning ether(temperatures 1000 degrees celsius i believe to remember, hotter than oil at least), with a plasma bottom deep down...and oil like drab as weeds, tentacled oil as plants....this way you still have the "seas effect". under ether (lol like under water) adapted living creatures and plants would suffocate above the liquid, but also light aflame. Lava fish (a river species) would do the same (but not on the Prime Plane (they can be found in the lava rivers in the Broken Lands)
Good ideas! :)

Havard wrote:Arch of Fire: We know this location from Norwold. But what does it look like on the other side? This would be one of the major access points from the Plane of Fire to Mystara. I could imagine several factions battling for command of this area.
As far as I remember indeed several fure creatures settled on the Prime side, as thus they would be on the fire side too, probably battling.
Yeah that makes sense. Fire Elementals and Efreeti are probably the two most powerful factions on this plane.
Havard wrote:Fey Courts Colony: It would seem likely that the Fey have a presence on most planes. I'd place their colony relative to the Isle of Dawn. I've been toying with the idea of unique Fire Sprites who are adapted to live on this plane.
I am battling with pdf making of the next chapters of the monster manual compilation (constructs and Fairykin), but there are such said creatures as far as I remember. I'll inform you (and anybody else) when the pdf acrobat problem is resolved.
Cool :) I thought I would just do the same as with the Frost Crabs/Fire Crabs and use Pixie or Sprite stats and add the fire subtype.
Havard wrote:Three Volcanoes Area: Another area with links between Mystara and the Plane of Fire.
It could be that the Megalith,(the Planet) lives in all inner planes simultaneously (hence its lack of interest in moving) and needs them all to sustain/heal itself. (as I proposed in my blog on the Megalith) that the creature is dead, could also mean it is dying or healing, and thus needing the planes.
Hmm...to have a creature exist on multiple planes at the same time seems a bit strange. I will have to give it some thought.
Havard wrote:Gnome Exploration Station: Gnomes from Highforge have built a structure that has allowed them to exist and explore this plane safely from within a metallic orb-like structure.
Never ever underestimate the inginuity of Gnomes or Kobolds. The latter Would be able(don't know willing) to do the same.
That is an interesting idea! Also, I would not be surprised if there were Gremlins at the station.... :o
City of Brass: Home of the Efreeti, this city was important since the time of Al-Kalim. Speaking of which, how important was Al-Kalim on this plane? (See Gaz2)
I believe a whole AD&D2 adventure/mosule was written about this city...
Yeah there are quite a few resources out there. I have the d20 Boxed Set by Necromaner Games(?). These are all different takes on the City of Brass, so whose to say which one is true for the Mystara version?
Havard wrote:Honor Island Mage Fortress: See Gaz4 for details.
Yes this is an interesting find
Yeah, the Ierendi Honor Mages and their Fireships are a really cool concept.

The AD&D2 guides I advised earlier in this post have a few lists inside giving more creatures, thus enabling a more living/vivid ecology
Thanks! :) As you will note I tend to emphasize on the things found in BECMI or Mystara specific material, though I am not opposed to using other material. I do prefer focusing on what will give these things a strongly Mystaran atmosphere though. But my interpretations aren't better than anyone elses in these cases of course! :) I will be making use of your post earlier in the thread for further developments regardless of this by the way.

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Robin » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:27 am

Havard wrote:Ah, you are right. BECMI does have Flame Salamanders (the snake like ones). Your suggestions seem good enough. I suppose this realm could be home to all of them.
Indeed , space/realm enough.
Havard wrote:[Well that is true. I could remove them from the map. But perhaps this is a region they keep returning to? Like migrating birds?
Maybe breeding grounds, that's more logical. but then it would always also attract natural predators
Havard wrote:Pyrophor They are 5' radius balls of flaming coal. They appear in the AD&D Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix.
Nice find..I read them now as we speak :ugeek:
Havard wrote:I borrowed this idea from the Forgotten Realms wiki. Perhaps wormholes are more appropriate in the Mentzer cosmology? I do like the idea of connection points between the Elemental Planes.
Worm holes/vortices wuld be better indeed I think. As I said in the post above, imagine the Elemental Planes placed on the Corners of a D4, with the prime within and that in a fitting ball. the ribs of the D4 would then be the several vortices fusing together into a singular wormhole connection between the Planes. I advise a seasonal opening closing then, depending on the Placement of the elemental Planes on the prime and the Outer Planes. To do so would prevent dominant elemental creatures overrunning the opposite creatures.and thus altering the whole balanced concept of the Inner Planes into full chaos.
Havard wrote:Are Greater and Lesser Phoenixes two different species or simply different stages of age for the same creature? In any case there could be one or at the maxiumum two Greater Phoenixes in this region. I envision smaller firebirds there as well. Simply use stats for Hawks, Ravens, Crows, Magpies etc from the Creature Catalog and assume immunity to fire. And what is their diet? Indeed. I could see "Fireflies", huge fiery insects being the food of these things. Stuff one doesnt really think too much about this. :)
I am such a lunatic that continuouly analyzes, expanding my knowledge and what I know about effects and contra effects. The same I do with D&D and Ecology/Biology/Geology/etc. fusing all together...this was why Bruce Heard called me the Fletcher when we met decades ago at Euro gencon in Rye. Phoenixes are as far as I reasd two different species..similar like a seagul and Albatros, similar but different.. The idea for other creatures/birds would work fine. Blackbirds as 1 hp chuncks of Coal flying around seeking burning worms. Nice :lol:
Havard wrote:I have given this some thought and at least IMC, Drakes are Dragonkin first. However they have been mixed with other races for so long that they have inherited their properties, so while Woodrakes are Fey, I dont consider the other subtypes related to Fey at all. I still think there could be an Elemental Drake Kingdom, but perhaps it is a secret kingdom, similar to Herath
I totally agree with the elemental Drakes mixing with elementals and thus straying further from the fairy genetic path. They may indeed have lost their link..However PC3, suggests they still share this (maybe reduced) link in one way or another. I believe to remember drakes preffered to hide within the cultures of the races they mimic (woodrakes elves, mandrakes human, as thus fire drakes with elementals. However...it deems more logical to me that fairy drakes merge with more material based elementals than the pure elementals. an efreet seems more logical to breed/mix/merge with than a fire elemental...I may be wrong, but the canon says it is elementals, not elemental creatures, yet still I am questioned about this.
Havard wrote:Thanks! Great minds I guess? :)
maybe :mrgreen: ...you make me proud by saying this :oops: ...always had great regards to your work on Blackmoor, amongst others. :lol:
Havard wrote:Good ideas! :)
My mind works so weird sometimes, that I can really imagine myself being on a location I think about. As thus I can learn new things to reflect, and that makes the image even strionger. I had this the strongest with the Canolbarth map. I still can walk between the trees there in my mind, smell and feel what is, as if I am there.You will somewhere this year see new things I discovered in my walks there on my Blog. :o
Havard wrote:]Cool :) I thought I would just do the same as with the Frost Crabs/Fire Crabs and use Pixie or Sprite stats and add the fire subtype.
That could work fine, but the fairies are thus diverse it maybe interesting to use those instead of pixies and sprites. I'll mail you a list with examples.
Havard wrote:Hmm...to have a creature exist on multiple planes at the same time seems a bit strange. I will have to give it some thought.
Totally agree it is strange with a capital S..the Megalith May be dominant Matter, but its composition harbours all other elements too. (worldshield= fire, water on/in its crust, Air around that, and live&death=entropy living on /in it.) It is a strange thought, but there seems to be logic within,..as the planes resemble each other in appearance..is their base then not the same? Who can understand elementalism to such a degree to make it logical...or better understandable...not me..(as of yet ..who might know what ponders I (we?) roll upon :mrgreen: :? ).
Havard wrote:That is an interesting idea! Also, I would not be surprised if there were Gremlins at the station.... :o
Oooh nasty... :twisted:
Havard wrote:City of Brass: Yeah there are quite a few resources out there. I have the d20 Boxed Set by Necromaner Games(?). These are all different takes on the City of Brass, so whose to say which one is true for the Mystara version?
I think the one that resembles the buildup/system rules the best.
Havard wrote:Thanks! :) As you will note I tend to emphasize on the things found in BECMI or Mystara specific material, though I am not opposed to using other material. I do prefer focusing on what will give these things a strongly Mystaran atmosphere though. But my interpretations aren't better than anyone elses in these cases of course! :) I will be making use of your post earlier in the thread for further developments regardless of this by the way.
I also prefer BECMI/MYSTARA for anything else, then followed by Ecology (as Mystara is a living ecosystem), as thus other sources (fanon/other realms can be imposed, and only then I take a look at newer game systens (although I do like the art of the newer systems very). If you need help. you know how to find me ;)
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Robin » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:40 am

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:00 pm

Added to the list of locations:

Sollux Stronghold: The Sun Brothers (Brethren?) have been waging a war against the Efreeti since before the Age of Blackmoor. They hail from Mystara, but they have several strongholds on the Plane of Fire. See also this discussion of the origin of the Sollux.

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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:08 pm

Getting back to some earlier comments:
RobJN wrote:
Havard wrote:
JamesMishler wrote:
One map for each element... plus one for Death/Entropy... could easily be tent-poles for a Mystaran "adventure path" through the five planes to reconstruct an artifact ("The Super-Elemental MacGuffin of Five Parts") that keeps the elements in balance on the Prime Plane... go to all five planes, find the parts, re-assemble the MacGuffin, or the Prime Plane flies apart into elemental bits (or at least, Mystara does)...
That is a great idea! One of the reasons why I didn't use the Elemental Planes more than I did in my campaigns is because there weren't all that many reasons for PCs to go there. This very simple adventure idea is brilliant. Now all we need is a cool name for the MacGuffin artifact!

Working on those other maps! :)
Well, I've got this thing lurking in the ruins of Archlis, called The Eye of Storms that could easily have several more "modes" of use, each using a dragonstone to pull its like-element from the elemental plane. Rather than retrieving the MacGuffin, you have to sever the link -- at the Elemental Plane end -- in order to shut down the Eye, which is wreaking havoc on the Prime.

Firestorms consuming Floating Ar...
Hurricanes over Glantri...
Sandstorms raging across Ylaruam and/or the Great Wastes of Sind...
Earthquakes rippling along the mountain chains of the entire planet...
Fogs and mists turned black, turning all they touch into undead variants.....
That is also a cool variation of the same theme. -What has caused the disruption of the balance? Has the MacGuffin been planted there? Or has something happened to it to throw it out of balance?
Yaztromo wrote:
Havard wrote: Thanks! A reference to the Flaem is a great idea. Any suggestions where to put it exactly? One of the major Flaem cities perhaps? Would there still be Flaems there, or just an abandoned ruin?
I think this requires a little bit of thought. I'd say that I expect some connection / gate to be up and running permanently in Glantri, in the Flaemish dominions / principality, but as you say, there may be other connections still open in the previous places (including connetcions to other dimensions and even fire planes) where Flaemish dwelled before (probably abandoned ruins, or perhaps hidden places closely guarded by high-rank Flaems or by magic creatures left behind) and this might enable a grand campaign to recover the lost roots and power of the Flaemish nation. A bit of Flaemish version of the quest for the Tree of Life that involves planar traveling to the planes of fires of Mystara and of other planets and dimensions as well!
Great ideas. I imagine the Flaems are also deeply involved with the secret craft of Pyromancy so that gate will be more or less related to the Flaems. Old Flaem remnants on the Plane of Fire for a grand campaign is an awesome idea. Well worth exploring further! :)

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Havard
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Havard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:32 pm

Another great resource for Mystara Elementals is the HWA Trilogy, in particular HWA2. This odule offers alot of insight on Fire and Earth elementals.

I will focus on the Fire Elementals for this thread:

Fire Elementals are chaotic in nature, but they are not evil. They can be aggressive and are usually very passionate. Art and craftsmanship is highly valued in Fire Elemental Society. Artists are celebrated and held in high esteem. (The RC says Elementals practise arts for all 6 senses). They tend to speak in creative metaphors. Their names also reflect their passionate and creative personalities. They use tools made of metallic fire (Fire Metal?)

Typical Fire Elemental Names: Shining Effulgence, Silvery White Fire, Pure Flame Heart, Golden Radience.

Elementals can form multiple arms, but this does not increase their number of attacks. (This is also mentioned in the RC).

Contact with denizens of other elemental planes is strictly forbidden.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

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Robin
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Re: Mystara's Plane of Fire (with Map)

Post by Robin » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:59 pm

Havard wrote:Another great resource for Mystara Elementals is the HWA Trilogy, in particular HWA2. This module offers alot of insight on Fire and Earth elementals.
Especially the background story I like
Havard wrote: They use tools made of metallic fire (Fire Metal?)
A form of Sold fire. Found deep in Ground Fire (or embers= similar to pached earth in common or not.) The Fire Plane does not have real mountains other than volcanoes.
Havard wrote:Typical Fire Elemental Names: Shining Effulgence, Silvery White Fire, Pure Flame Heart, Golden Radience.
Nice touch...now translated to Fire Elemental; Shinnniingggg efffulggggeesss, Sssssillvvvrrryy whhhhhhaait fffffirrrr, purrrr ffffflammmm hhheeaaaaaarrrrt, ggggggolll-donnnnn Glllllowwwwwch :ugeek:
Havard wrote:Elementals can form multiple arms, but this does not increase their number of attacks. (This is also mentioned in the RC).
It could affect their skil use however, making manual skills uo to +2 easier to do, and as thus reduce creation time by 20%.
Havard wrote:Contact with denizens of other elemental planes is strictly forbidden.
Indeed, but that did not refrain the elemental Prince and princes to become enamered in HWA2-3...love always finds a way,.....(now it has to find me.. ;( )
My Deviantart page; http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/ For Mystara hexmaps and Fantasy art (to see all fantasy art; enter and declare you are an adult...frigging exposure rules)
My personal Mystara Blog;http://breathofmystara.blogspot.nl/

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