How many D&D editions are you interested in?

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How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Original Dungeons & Dragons (White Boxed Set)
12
5%
Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set (Holmes)
10
4%
Dungeons & Dragons B/X (Moldvay/Cook)
24
10%
Dungeons & Dragons BECMI (Mentzer)
42
17%
Dungeons & Dragons Black Box/Rules Cyclopedia
29
12%
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1st Edition)
31
12%
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition/Revised 2nd Edition (Players Options
32
13%
Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition/Revised 3.5 Edition
26
10%
Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition/Essentials
10
4%
Dungeons & Dragons (5th Edition)
33
13%
 
Total votes : 249

Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Tim Baker » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:51 pm

Havard wrote:My current main interests are BECMI and 5E too, though I consider B/X, BECMI and the RC/Black Box the same edition. My ventures into Blackmoor and Dave Arneson lore also got me into OD&D.

I've been looking through Blueholme a bit, and am curious if you would categorize Holmes D&D with B/X, BECMI, and RC, with OD&D, or as its own edition? I only have minimal experience with any of the above, and am interested to hear from an expert.
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Havard » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:01 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Havard wrote:My current main interests are BECMI and 5E too, though I consider B/X, BECMI and the RC/Black Box the same edition. My ventures into Blackmoor and Dave Arneson lore also got me into OD&D.

I've been looking through Blueholme a bit, and am curious if you would categorize Holmes D&D with B/X, BECMI, and RC, with OD&D, or as its own edition? I only have minimal experience with any of the above, and am interested to hear from an expert.


As I see it, there are two ways to look at this.

The long answer:
First of all OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI, the RC etc etc are all really one game called D&D. There is a reason why TSR never used editions to distinguish between their non-AD&D games. They all have alot of similarities and it is really easy to use stuff from the older versions with the more recent ones, or even the other way around.

Holmes is probably closest to OD&D, but it also included a few "teasers" to the then upcoming AD&D such as the Bronze Dragons and separation of race and class.

The short version:
Holmes covers 3 levels and in spite of its curious quirks and being rather interesting historically, I mainly see it as an introduction set to OD&D.

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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby willpell » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:54 pm

Big Mac wrote:
willpell wrote:You're right, I was thinking of Council of Wyrms, that's the other big thing I'm interested in which is 2E only.


I'm still deciding on whether to buy the Council of Wyrms boxed set or the Council of Wyrms hardback. The hardback has a few extra things, but is missing the maps.


"Buy both", says the guy who has no money. :twisted:
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Hugin » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:37 pm

Havard wrote:My DMing experience is fairly close to yours Hugin, though as a player I have also tried most of the other editions.

I was definitely 95+% DMing until the past almost two years with 5E, where it has been roughly 50/50. I'm really relishing the opportunity to just be a player, but still able to DM my own game - I really do have the best of both worlds right now.

I've read, and even own, some AD&D 1st and 2nd edition, but never had the chance to play or run that edition. My hiatus from D&D began before 4E was released (or just after, not sure) and I didn't really have the chance to even consider converting over to it. I have read it since but I doubt we would have switched over to it, but you never know. That said, I do wish I had the opportunity to try it out.

My current main interests are BECMI and 5E too, though I consider B/X, BECMI and the RC/Black Box the same edition. My ventures into Blackmoor and Dave Arneson lore also got me into OD&D.

I went back and added a vote for the Mentzer Basic as well since that's well in the Known World/Mystara sphere and I own a lot of it (almost everything actually).
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Tim Baker » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:53 pm

Havard wrote:The long answer:
First of all OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI, the RC etc etc are all really one game called D&D. There is a reason why TSR never used editions to distinguish between their non-AD&D games. They all have alot of similarities and it is really easy to use stuff from the older versions with the more recent ones, or even the other way around.

Holmes is probably closest to OD&D, but it also included a few "teasers" to the then upcoming AD&D such as the Bronze Dragons and separation of race and class.

The short version:
Holmes covers 3 levels and in spite of its curious quirks and being rather interesting historically, I mainly see it as an introduction set to OD&D.

Thank you for the thoughtful response. That's helpful. I always assumed there were significant differences between OD&D and BECMI. For example, I thought OD&D separated race and class, and that it was B/X that first featured race-as-class. Sounds like I'm mistaken about that.
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Havard » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:31 pm

Tim Baker wrote:Thank you for the thoughtful response. That's helpful. I always assumed there were significant differences between OD&D and BECMI. For example, I thought OD&D separated race and class, and that it was B/X that first featured race-as-class. Sounds like I'm mistaken about that.


Well, I suppose there is a theoretical separation between race and class in OD&D, but Dwarves and Halflings may only be Fighting Men and Elves may switch between Magic User and Fighting Man between adventures. This is pretty similar to how it works in BECMI though, except that the elf class is now a combination between Fighter and Magic User (some abilities from each) rather than doing the switching thing which I always found a pretty odd concept.

From what I understand, the designers such as Tom Moldvay, David Cook, Frank Mentzer etc never sought to create a new edition though, they merely revised and added to what Gygax and Arneson had created originally. Of course, BECMI ended up expanding greatly on the game with the later boxed sets, Gazetteers and supplements, but focusing on the Basic/Expert level range, the versions are highly similar from 1974 to the mid 1990s.

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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Dread Delgath » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:15 pm

I voted for 0e, Holmes, BX, 1st edition AD&D and 5e.

I didn't vote for 2e or RC/BECMI, although I have many of these rulebooks, modules & supplements. Overall, I am mainly concerned with creating 0e/Holmes supplements and campaigns, with a slightly less interest in doing the same for 1e.

However, I'll play anything, including Pathfinder, and I'm currently having a blast with my 4th level 5e Eladrin Druid, but slightly less fun than I did with my 7th level Tiefling Blade/Fiend-Pact Warlock (Chaotic Neutral) named Hellgirl. :twisted:

I've completely given up trying to DM 5e, or make house-rules for it. The rules I introduced to my group before handing the DM Robe over to another player will either stand or fall according to how well the group likes them.

I voted for BX because it is my favorite stand-alone set of rules with the fewest number of supplemental books required to play it. I'd DM or play this at the drop of a hat. I don't even need a module or campaign setting to run this. Its all right here (points at head). :cool:

All of the work I could've done to, or for 1e is already in OSRIC, except for creating adventures for my 1e Greyhawk campaign. This, if anyone ever plays it, will eventually expand to include nearly every other campaign setting I have: FR, RL, SJ, AQ, LM, KW & HW (Mystara...)

0e & Holmes is my favorite edition to fiddle with. I've created my own set of house rules encompassing every 0e supplement & Holmes Basic and am still working on a series of PDFs that I lovingly, yet sarcastically call "Levels Beyond Basic" or "LBB". Right now, I'm struggling with compiling all the monsters from 0e, Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry and Holmes into one PDF without it reading almost exactly like the Monster Manual -- itself which is completely compatible with Holmes Basic! I almost deleted all my LBB monster work and decided to simply use the MM as my LBB monster supplement. Thankfully, uncommon sense prevailed, and my work continues. There will be enough differences in the MM and my work to make the effort worthwhile.

After that, its off to all the supplemental DM info from 0e, GH, BM, EW... and beyond, all based on Underworld & Wilderness Adventures, otherwise known as 0e Volume III. With all the available material, this will require a lot of parsing and editing to get the probable page count down to a manageable size.

After all that, occasionally I get brilliant and create an adventure/module/campaign arc for my own proposed Portown campaign setting (system neutral, but geared for 0e/Holmes/LBB). The first two "modules" I wrote concerns a clan of alien -ish doppelgängers living in the sub-levels and forgotten crypts under the very streets, docks, and sewers of Portown.

I'm not sure if these "modules" I wrote are simply dungeons, interchangeable modules, or specific event driven (railroady) adventures for an ongoing campaign arc. A little of everything, I suspect... :P
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Big Mac » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm

Havard wrote:
Tim Baker wrote:
Havard wrote:My current main interests are BECMI and 5E too, though I consider B/X, BECMI and the RC/Black Box the same edition. My ventures into Blackmoor and Dave Arneson lore also got me into OD&D.

I've been looking through Blueholme a bit, and am curious if you would categorize Holmes D&D with B/X, BECMI, and RC, with OD&D, or as its own edition? I only have minimal experience with any of the above, and am interested to hear from an expert.


As I see it, there are two ways to look at this.

The long answer:
First of all OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI, the RC etc etc are all really one game called D&D. There is a reason why TSR never used editions to distinguish between their non-AD&D games. They all have alot of similarities and it is really easy to use stuff from the older versions with the more recent ones, or even the other way around.

Holmes is probably closest to OD&D, but it also included a few "teasers" to the then upcoming AD&D such as the Bronze Dragons and separation of race and class.


From the point-of-view of my Piazza survey, I've added "Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set (Holmes)" as a separate option because I'm not asking people to pick their favourites. I'm asking people to tick ever system they are interested in.

I actually find it interested that more people like BECMI than like B/X or the RC...or Holmes. That doens't make BECMI "better" (that's subjective) but it does mean that there might be more BECMI experts hanging around.

There are other interesting things there too, like 1e and 2e being equally popular to people who ticked the boxes, but the 2e forum at The Piazza having more topics and more posts.

I'm guessing that, as more people answer, we will see these numbers go up and down relative to each other. I think that is kind of fun. :)
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Big Mac » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:37 pm

Hugin wrote:I went back and added a vote for the Mentzer Basic as well since that's well in the Known World/Mystara sphere and I own a lot of it (almost everything actually).


I'm glad to see some people are going back to edit their vote.

I'm hoping to see this evolve over time, as some people experiment with older or newer rules.
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Hugin » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:52 am

Big Mac wrote:
Hugin wrote:I went back and added a vote for the Mentzer Basic as well since that's well in the Known World/Mystara sphere and I own a lot of it (almost everything actually).


I'm glad to see some people are going back to edit their vote.

I'm hoping to see this evolve over time, as some people experiment with older or newer rules.

Indeed, it will be neat to see the poll evolve over time. Mind you, I only voted for those I'm *most* interested and generally always, because truthfully, I can have some interest in any of the editions for various reasons at various times. :ugeek:
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby maddog » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:52 pm

I have to admit that this poll may reset my perception checks about DnD editions. I wouldn't have guessed that BECMI would be higher than the RC, and 1e would be lower than both.

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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Havard » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:56 pm

I have changed my vote.

I now voted for OD&D, Holmes, B/X, BECMI and RC - I consider all of these versions of D&D the same edition.

I also voted for 5th Edion, which I am using for my main current Mystara/Blackmoor campaign.


I did not vote for any of the other editions, but like Hugin, I only voted for the editions I am most interested in. I am really interested in every edition and I own the rulebooks for every edition and sub edition by both TSR and WotC as well as a handful of clones + Pathfinder, C&C etc.


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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby willpell » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:54 pm

The surprise to me is that 3rd, 2nd, 1st, and "0th" editions are all equally popular at the moment.

(The poll should perhaps distinguish between 3.0 and 3.5, as they are probably as different as all those various Basic versions.)
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby timemrick » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:50 am

willpell wrote:(The poll should perhaps distinguish between 3.0 and 3.5, as they are probably as different as all those various Basic versions.)

I'll second that. I voted for 3.0/3.5 (along with 5E), but I've had very little interest in 3.0 since shortly after the release of 3.5.

(BTW, were the changes in the 4E Essentials rules as dramatic as the 3.0-to-3.5 shift, or more of a reorganization of the material? I was done with 4E long before Essentials came out, so never paid them any attention.)
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Zeromaru X » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:01 am

Essentials is just 4e rebalanced and errata'ed, with more fluff along the way. Both use the same system, though Essentials have a simplified character creation process. Both, vanilla 4e and Essentials classes are compatible (you can play in a group that uses characters with classes of both lines without problem), though some Essential classes are better (easy to play) than some of the vanilla classes. Essentials classes are designed to be simpler and more straightforward, and tend to have a narrower range of options at each level. There are still options for customizing, and room to bolt on vanilla mechanics, but overall they don't give you quite as many choices to make.

In vanilla 4e all classes follow an 'AEDU' power progression (at will, encounter, daily, utility). They all get the same numbers and types of powers at the same levels, and all class features are available to all classes from level 1 (there is no "when you get to level Y you get to do X"). Some Essentials classes instead of having some of the AEDU power slots get a combination of fixed powers (you get no choice, you just get power X, and often at higher levels you just get extra uses per encounter of X), and you may also get class features which kick in at higher levels. Each class is a bit different in how it works, some are more like vanilla classes, others are pretty much totally hardcoded and the only option you get is feats and utility powers (Essentials classes all get feats the same as regular 4e). The Mage class in Essentials for instance is basically 100% the same as the Wizard class from PHB1, it is a full AEDU class using all the same powers. It does have a few minor tweaks though. Fighters, on the other side, are totally different from PHB 1 Fighter, with different mechanics if you're playing a Knight (Fighter Defender) or a Slayer (Fighter Striker)

Essentials playable races are more "flexible" than the vanilla ones, as you can choose one of your ability scores to get one +2 bonus, the other bonus being fixed (this mechanic was introduced on PHB 3, but Essentials applied it to the more common races of the PHB 1), and monsters from the Essential line use a new math system to calculate defenses and damage, and thus are more powerful than monsters from vanilla books, but you can use monster from both sources and, beyond some monsters being more easily defeated than others, they will work together quite well.

There is also more flavor in the Essentials books than in vanilla books. There are some other minor differences, but the main thing is all the material is 100% compatible across the whole 4e line.
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby timemrick » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:17 am

Thanks for the summary, Zeromaru X!
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:36 am

maddog wrote:I have to admit that this poll may reset my perception checks about DnD editions. I wouldn't have guessed that BECMI would be higher than the RC, and 1e would be lower than both.


It's been a bit mind blowing to me. But I like it.

My campaign setting question on Facebook had some radical changes over the first years, but then it became a lot more stable after that.
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:37 am

Havard wrote:I did not vote for any of the other editions, but like Hugin, I only voted for the editions I am most interested in. I am really interested in every edition and I own the rulebooks for every edition and sub edition by both TSR and WotC as well as a handful of clones + Pathfinder, C&C etc.


I mostly voted for the editions that have content I can Spelljammerise. :twisted:
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby rabindranath72 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:57 am

willpell wrote:The surprise to me is that 3rd, 2nd, 1st, and "0th" editions are all equally popular at the moment.

(The poll should perhaps distinguish between 3.0 and 3.5, as they are probably as different as all those various Basic versions.)

Indeed I only play 3.0; never had any interest in the changes brought in 3.5, and there are enough changes to notice the difference at the table. I voted 3e, but it should have been 3.0.
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby rabindranath72 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:03 am

maddog wrote:I have to admit that this poll may reset my perception checks about DnD editions. I wouldn't have guessed that BECMI would be higher than the RC, and 1e would be lower than both.

--Ray.

When I play Classic D&D, it's always with the boxed sets. I have a RC, but it's essentially still mint.
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby rabindranath72 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:05 am

It would have been interesting to see if there's a difference between core AD&D 2e and AD&D 2e+Player's Option. I have used both, but when I introduced the PO stuff in the game, the campaign collapsed; the stuff looks like a munchkin's wet dream. We loved the additional material and options, but the execution left a lot to be desired. In fact we moved to D&D 3.0 because we saw it as a "refinement" of all the 2e+PO.
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:26 am

timemrick wrote:
willpell wrote:(The poll should perhaps distinguish between 3.0 and 3.5, as they are probably as different as all those various Basic versions.)

I'll second that. I voted for 3.0/3.5 (along with 5E), but I've had very little interest in 3.0 since shortly after the release of 3.5.


There is also the split in 2nd Edition, with Player's Options bringing in "2.5" rules, and they did prototype Non-weapon Proficiencies in the later 1st Edition products. So I could have added more subdivisions for them too.

It's not possible to edit the options of an active poll, without wiping out the results and zapping it. So I won't be changing this.

For the record, I was also a lot more interested in the 3.0 Era than the 3.5 Era. The 3.5 Era had me constantly wondering if I could use the rules out of a book, or if there was a 3.5 update that I should be using. :? The entire thing "broke the 4th wall" for me and stopped me from focusing on immersing myself in the game. (It's the same reason I've decided to "get off the Edition Treadmill". I think that all D&D rules are equally valid options, but I just don't want to be thinking about this stuff. I just want to play.)

But the fact that Forgotten Realms went from 3.0 to 3.5 meant that I did buy plenty of 3.5 products. I would be happy to see people posting 3.0 retro-conversions of things in 3.5 products (as well as 3.5 conversions of things published in 3.0 products).
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:36 am

rabindranath72 wrote:It would have been interesting to see if there's a difference between core AD&D 2e and AD&D 2e+Player's Option. I have used both, but when I introduced the PO stuff in the game, the campaign collapsed; the stuff looks like a munchkin's wet dream. We loved the additional material and options, but the execution left a lot to be desired. In fact we moved to D&D 3.0 because we saw it as a "refinement" of all the 2e+PO.


I gave up playing D&D before Player's Options came out, so I've always thought of 2nd Edition being the 2nd Edition stuff that I learned and played.

It was the Complete Book of Treadmill line that turned me off of D&D. Some of those books are awesome (and I'm actually going back and buying more now) but I was strapped for cash at the time and trying to keep up with a line of books that continually expanded the core was a real struggle. (And then I noticed that TSR was increasing the text size and recycling a lot of artwork and decided I was being ripped off and stopped enjoying it. I'm over that now, so I can go back and not have the frustration. But I don't have enough time to learn thousands of different rules.)
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby Zeromaru X » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:42 am

Was the 3.0 to 3.5 change that severe?
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Re: How many D&D editions are you interested in?

Postby rabindranath72 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:59 am

Zeromaru X wrote:Was the 3.0 to 3.5 change that severe?


Some of the most relevant points for me (as a DM) and my group:

1) Character creation is fast; if you want to save time, each class contains a package which allows creating a character of whatever race in a few minutes. I think something similar was done for 3.5 as well in a web enhancement, but in 3.0 it's straight in the PHB.

2) Little or no decision paralysis, both at character creation and when advancing: there are very few feats, and their design is very tight (as a bonus, if you come from AD&D, you recognise some of those feats as previously fixed class features.) Many feats are designed as clear exceptions to very specific rules. For example, Alertness is designed to provide a bonus in surprise situations, and it's the only feat providing a bonus to two skills. If you want to get better in a skill in general, there's Skill Focus. Furthermore some of the feats in 3.0 were split into two or more feats in 3.5, with the result that each feat becomes less relevant. In general, when you take a feat in 3.0, it's a significant boost (this is important since, except for the fighter, there aren't many occasions to get feats.)

3) The game is not strongly wedded to the grid; there are some references in the DMG, but that's all. You won't find things like diagonal movement costing differently than horizontal/vertical movement (which technically doesn't even make much sense as it imposes an Euclidean concept of distance, whereas in fact when we use the grid, we are implicitly assuming a non-Euclidean metric.) This relies on DM fiat being more important, and in our experience, it also typically results in way faster combats.

4) NPC prep time is small, thanks to the full NPC tables in the DMG. I can create an NPC of whatever level, of most monster/PC races, already equipped, in a handful of minutes. The tables were drastically reduced in utility in the 3.5 DMG.

5) Lots of monsters are easier to adjudicate in play, since monsters don't follow the same rules as PCs when it comes to skills and feats. Again, faster combats (and faster prep.)

6) Lots of monsters are scarier, as you will need specific magical bonuses; a weapon being generically "magic" is not enough.

7) A Paladin's mount is not a pokemon ;) If your mount dies, you must wait one year and a day to get another one (resource management is important!)

8) Gnomes favour being illusionists (as traditional in AD&D.)

9) Some skills are class specific, and can't be acquired by other classes as cross-class skills AT ALL: Animal Empathy, Decipher Script, Read Lips, Scry, Use Magic Device. This too is a sort of "throwback" to AD&D, and in general it helps with "niche protection".

10) Weapon stats are simpler, they don't depend on size (but there are simple guidelines in the DMG.)

11) You can multiclass from 1st level (it works by combining sort of two 1/2 level classes; each class doesn't get all of the 1st level stuff.)

12) Most spells have the same name and level as their AD&D counterparts. In 3.5 spells changed names AND levels, which makes porting spellcasting characters and monster a huge hassle.

13) In general, classes are simpler, and have less "stuff" going on and/or fewer/simpler features; in general, they are less "powerful (e.g. the clerics don't have Auras; paladins don't have Auras and can only smite once per day; sorcerers can't change their spells; rangers don't get an animal companion by default etc.) The overall "feel" is definitely grittier (and play is faster.)

Overall, 3.0 retained a lot of legacy features from AD&D, which made the game more easily recognisable by players used to AD&D, and made porting of characters and scenarios A LOT easier.
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